Doomed to Fail

Ep 107 - Australia's Gun Horror: The Port Arthur Massacre

Episode Summary

Today, we take a look at Australia's gun laws, specifically the laws passed after the Port Arthur Massacre in 1996. Martin Bryant was a young man who had many, many issues and about a million dollars to his name when he went on a rampage, killing 35 people. Post this event, the Australian government upped their gun laws and did an extensive buy-back program. We talk about the horrors of the event but also the extent to which the new laws changed Australia and their effect on mass shooting statistics. You won't be surprised to know that the more guns, the more gun deaths.

Episode Notes

Today, we take a look at Australia's gun laws, specifically the laws passed after the Port Arthur Massacre in 1996. Martin Bryant was a young man who had many, many issues and about a million dollars to his name when he went on a rampage, killing 35 people. Post this event, the Australian government upped their gun laws and did an extensive buy-back program.

We talk about the horrors of the event but also the extent to which the new laws changed Australia and their effect on mass shooting statistics.

You won't be surprised to know that the more guns, the more gun deaths. 

Episode Transcription

Hi Friends! Our transcripts aren't perfect, but I wanted to make sure you had something - if you'd like an edited transcript, I'd be happy to prioritize one for you - please email doomedtofailpod@gmail.com - Thanks! - Taylor

[Music] in a matter of the people of State of California versus orthal James Simpson case number ba09 and so my fellow

Americans ask not what your country can do for you ask what you and we are back

Taylor uh how has your week been so far good I'm trying to find a way to take a picture of these pretty glass bottles to

so people know what I was talking about last episode yeah I I particularly like the um the one that looked like crystol

pretty from what is it Trader Joe's Yeah Yeah from Trader Joe's yeah just like a white wine and yeah it's

beautiful little DIY home good tips from Taylor who you another tip that I have

is you can buy like those you know those por things that like they have a bars on

liquor bottles like the silver things like they put on top of them yeah um you can buy those and put them on the bottle

and make your olive olive oil bottle that's brilliant it's really pretty I have like a really pretty tequila bottle

as my olive oil bottle I bet if you um just started doing DIY projects I mean

the thing you did to that garage that you turn into Juan's office is incredible like youall really good DIY

stuff um thank you so um um yeah well

let's go ahead and Taylor had a great story for us we're getting into like some pretty interesting stuff I mean I

like to think that it's always interesting but like you know it I think you're going to be interested in this topic um which

it's a topic that's constantly around in the US and so I'm going to be discussing

the Port Arthur Massacre Oh do you know what that is um I I don't not right away

but I feel like I will when you start talking about it also can you enter the show oh welcome to Duna fail this is a twice

weekly podcast where me and Taylor cover topics that we just find interesting and then we banter about it which some of

you all don't like and some of you do and then we move on and continue with different topics that we release twice a

week was that good tell your friends we're learning a lot of stuff learning a lot of stuff I learned a lot on this one

because well basically I'll give I'll give you the tldr right now so this was

the mass shooting event that occurred in Australia that triggered all kinds of gun reforms in Australia o okay yeah

yeah yeah and so I was really curious to learn about what was going on with guns

in Australia before what was going on with guns with Australia after how did that relate compared to other countries

in the United States SW so forth and here's the spoiler alert is I reached no conclusions except that obviously

banning guns results in less gun violence but but there's some other who

would have guessed who would have thought who would have thought um but there there's a lot to dig into and this

is one that I really want to hear your perspective on so like listen closely because I do have a lot of open-ended

questions on this one and could use your perspective so um the we're talking about it occurred in the T in the

Australian state of Tasmania on April 28th 1996 so we're going back about 28

years at this point um to to explore this so I'm going to cover this in several sections one is what happened to

what was going on with Australia before this happened we're going to talk about the perpetrator the person who actually did it we're going to talk about the

crime itself and then we're going to talk about Australia after this happen so those are kind of the four sections

that I broke this into so before port Arthur happened um

each state in Australia was responsible for their own gun laws so there was no federal gun regulations it was all

dictated and detered by those individual states the event here like I said took place in Tasmania so I was looking at

gun laws there in particular and it was pretty it was laxed like it was a pretty laxed State when it came to to gun laws

that and Queensland those two seemed to be like the Texas and Arkansas of

Australia for the most part and so at that time there was no thank you but I

get I get it I get I get I Get What You Mean So at that time Tasmania actually

didn't even require registering of firearms it was kind of a free-for-all you can do whatever you want so I used I

use the us as a benchmark to kind of understand where the world um is and was at that time so just for comparison's

sake and we all the US is a good Benchmark because everybody knows where our relationship to guns is and right

now for example we have a 32% personal gun

ownership is that word I'm looking for basically 32% of individuals in the US own guns and in addition to that they

own more than one gun so the last set that I looked at from 2017 said that

there was a per capita number of 120 guns per 100 people in the US

wow so some people have a [ __ ] ton of guns yeah is the is what that math well

yeah because if if 32% gun ownership rate with that equals out to is 68% of the people don't own guns but you have

120 to 100 guns so

right so someone some some people have like arsenals at home so my only hope is

that I hope I always think of remember Tremors that movie oh yeah beautiful

great movie aming with Reuben McIntyre her and her husband have that Arsenal that's the only one I've ever found Charming yeah well she can pull it off

too so at so at the time of this event Australia had a gun unhip rate of

88.1% so it wasn't like crazy riddled with guns but it wasn't like nobody had

guns right 8.1 is still in the global total

relatively High what's a global total right now I don't have a global total I

do have a listing of what it is right now in terms of where Australia and the

US and some other countries rank in terms of gun ownership I think it was Australia's like 51 or something us is

OB us is number one by a super wide margin it's not even close it's like the

per capital is like I forgot what it was exactly it was like 120 to one 100 and then the next country tree is like 60 to

100 it it like drops M dramatically significantly yeah yeah but that's kind

of the condition of what's going on in Australia before this event happens let's get into the perpetrator real quick and and then get into the event

itself so the perpetrator his name is Martin Bryant and if you look him up there's

some pictures of him where he looks kind of like a surfer guy and there's one picture of

him where he looks particularly crazy that I later found out was all kind of media done they basically made his eyes

glow and he looks absolutely terrifying in it um but that's the guy if you look

him up he what's his name again can you tell me it again Mar Martin Bryant okay so at the time of the event

he was 29 years old and I'm had I had a hard time kind of coming up with a good description for him he strikes me the

combo that I hit was that he was as mentally ill as Adam lonza the Sandy

Hook guy but also like innately evil like the Coline guys like I feel like

those two are like an interesting cross-section of like the worst of humanity he was always odd like to the

point where this was documented extensively way before this event by his parents by teachers by social workers by

acquaintances that he grew up with he left school at around 16 or 17 years old

and part of the reason was basically just an inability or an unwillingness to

learn or engage with school or students or the curriculum he would be evaluated for

mental illness at this time the reason being is that he essentially at 16 17 years old fell back onto a Disability

Pension so he was using disability benefits and they had to do an evaluation of him to decide whether he

was fit and suited for this kind of um benefit and when they did their psyche V

they established it was borderline mentally disabled so they clocked an IQ

score of somewhere around 66 which is like I think in the US 70 under 75 is

considered disabled but maybe Australia maybe especially back then they had a different standard but he was like he was really low like I mean 75 is like

bad like he was very very low and in addition to everything else he was also

completely illiterate he didn't know how to read he didn't know how to write he never learned those skills from reading his parents account

they seemed to recognize pretty quickly there was something going on with him there was something wrong with him his parents were decent parents by all

accounts like they weren't you know horrible people so like there's no assumption there's any sort of abuse in

his background other than the fact that he was mercilessly bullied at school he was not getting abused at home that is

at minimum didn't have that going did he have any siblings I don't know I look

that up yeah uh it is pretty clear assum

assumably at this point he never made friends at school and he was prone to torturing

animals so weird uh he'd also mess with people in like very strange but also

kind of pass aggressive ways one one uh report I read was that he would cut down his neighbor's trees without telling

them he just that's annoying you imagine doing a chore that annoying for the fun of annoying somebody else just oh my God

yeah later in life um he would be diagnosed with aspergers and add uh

earlier when he was going for a psyche valal for his um disability benefits it

was assumed he might be schizophrenic or like on the cusp of developing

schizophrenia later on after everything that we're going to discuss here happened and he did a full course of

Psych evaluations it was clear that he was not schizophrenic so that part of mental illness did not hit him okay uh

Martin would never make friends with anybody his own age he did however develop a weirdly really weird

relationship with a wealthy older woman when he was 19 and she was 54 her name

was Helen Mary Elizabeth Harvey and you're gonna hate this sailor she was

what was called a tatter sales Heir and I look this up so this is this is a

thing in Australia where there was this one company called tatter sale that was started like the 1800s by this guy who

really wanted his employees to have an ownership interest in the business and so unlike our situation where we work

for companies who give us the option to buy stock that's not how this works this is basically employee owned so he when

he died all interest in the business went into this trust that was all divied up amongst their employees so that when

the company goes public they all get rich and so there's this group of people

who when this company went public ended up making a shitload of money this woman

Mary Elizabeth or Helen Mary Elizabeth Harvey this 58 54 year old woman that

Martin meets her great great great grandfather was some worker at this

company in like the 1800s and she still inherited like a boatload of money

that's awesome I do hate that because that I'm jealous but [ __ ] that's cool I know I hate it in in the exact same way

um Helen lived in a rundown mansion with her mother hila and Martin was trying to

launch a mo yeah right it it sounds like what was that movie the G Gardens thank you it sounds just like gray Gardens

yeah so uh Martin was apparently trying to launch a lawn Ming business so he came knocking on her door uh hell and

harded Martin and some sort of friendship developed at this point it was clear from what I've read that they

had been living in isolation for about 30 years so Helen and her mom were just living in this Mansion isolated not

talking to anybody and the the house sounds like an episode of Hoarders like I read that they were

sleeping on trash and like there was a a dozen dogs or something in the house

there's like 40 cats in the house it sounded like an absolute vision from

hell so it sounds exactly GRE Gardens yeah yeah they have like those raccoons in the attic and stuff yeah so Helen and

Martin developed a friendship which Martin would swear up and down wasn't sexual and at one point apparently some

Anonymous person got bless them submitted like a welfare check for this this mom and daughter Duo and

authorities visited the house and they're like you can't live here nobody can live here like this is not a living

situation and they also discovered that Helen had been living with an infected ulcer for like presumably at least two

years which I don't know what that feels like but it's got to be horrible I don't know how you just live your life that way yeah and I think um I've been

watching a lot of hoers so yes it sounds I feel like quarters have you seen that

one woman who um who shits in the bucket

and she carries a bucket out and splashes it on the ground and it goes all over her feet I mean I'd have also

there also so many who just [ __ ] in plastic bags and leave them piled up in the bathroom yeah yeah that's that movie

uh is depressing or that show is depressing I don't know why I watch it so much I should probably set but also it gets me to throw stuff away by so

like pause it and throw like a ton of stuff away literally the logic I use when I watch my 600 lb life I'm like I

watched them and I'm like I'm just going to not order that pizza now I'm going to have a I'm a salad I'm go for a walk

yeah so at this point the authorities discovered that Helen has this infected ulcer and that his her mom hila had a

broken hip she'd been living with a broken hip this whole time and they weren't doing anything with it she probably wasn't even like getting up at

all right probably not probably not they found on a pile of trash so they

were legitimate it was legitimately on a pile of trash I'm sorry to laugh but you're like yeah Taylor I'm like okay I

got it you so so they were both taken away for for treatment and somehow

Martin is Task with getting this house in order to be up for code I'm assuming they just offered him a ton of money or

something or I don't know by the time the cleanup was complete hila the mom had just died in the hospital from her

injuries and so Helen asked Martin to come and stay with her and he did as part of the cleanup the

authorities made Helen give up all her animals to the Humane Society because like that's not any way for a human or

the animals to live and they that also happens a lot on Horus yeah some of the

ones where they find like the cat that went missing like 12 years ago and it's just like a piece many so many flattened

cats horrifying so disgusting yeah but apparently the authorities forbid her

from ever keeping animals again so she did like the only rational thing you would do in that situation when you have a ton of money and no sense she ended up

buying a 72 Acre Farm for her and Martin to go live on which they did so in a

little bit of a Twist of events for Helen so in 1992 Helen Martin and her two newly acquired dogs were in a car

that Helen was driving when it apparently veered into oncoming traffic and resulted in her death as well as the

death of the dogs prior to this Helen had recounted to people that sometimes when she's driving

Martin who will be in the pastor SE will just reach over and grab the steering wheel and start jerking

it so apparently Helen had had three accidents before this when they killed

her where Martin literally did this thing and so it was assumed that this wasn't some accidental death that he had

done this to her did he drive we're gonna get to that we're gonna get

to that yeah good question

so what ends up happening is that Helen the only person that was consistent in

Helen's life was Martin and so he ends up inheriting everything from her including

$550,000 in cash his parents upon learning this they're like hey he can't

manage this money he's literally mentally handicapped and so they decided to give

guardianship of Martin and his money over to a trust so that was a way to

kind of the the reason the reason I'm bringing that up is because you wonder yourself how did this guy not just blow through all this money and like but like

it he couldn't he couldn't blow to the money he was dispersed money on a regular basis by this

trust so Martin's father ended up moving onto the farm with Martin and he also

inherited the farm from Helen and about 2 months after he moved in he was found

dead having drowned in the dam it's assumed that he killed himself some

and later on they would think okay he probably also I mean we we feel good

that he killed the Helen and he probably killed his dad too but the reason why they think that maybe he didn't was

because it was noted that his dad suffered from depression and that

several months before any of this end end up happening before Helen die and all that stuff uh he' actually

transferred all of his personal assets like he removed him or any personal

assets that he had that were not accessible by his wife Martin's mom he

allowed her to have that access there was some assumption that he like was thinking he's going to kill himself

anyways he was found uh dead in a dam like having drowned and had a weight

vest over his head and so okay well weird way to kill yourself really

gruesome to [ __ ] throw yourself into a deep Dam and just FL to the bottom of the ocean like why would you do it that

way um but works all sorts of different ways for no reason at all so yeah fair not no

Reas at all but like you know what I mean like small things that you wouldn't think were the thing they are totally

totally yeah so uh Martin in this situation ends up inheriting a quarter million dollar pension from the father

as well and then he decides that he wants to sell the farm and move back to that

dumpy original house that he first found Helen in and so he ends up selling the farm and for whatever reason he ends up

netting only $145,000 but one thing that's interesting here that made me think was

like at this point he's about 24 years old he's a mentally disabled reclose who

is known for just walking around shooting dogs while also trying to befriend them and he now has a net worth

of just under a million dollars in the 1990s like sometimes life just happens

and yeah he kind of like fell into all of that yeah I don't want to say he has a Charmed Life but like

still yeah so at this point so he moves back into this house at this point he's lost Helen his only friend he's ever had

in his life he loses his dad and he spent his days mostly just drinking

going to the local restaurant and he'd also make very frequent plane trips not because he was like an avid traveler

because it was the only way to have a captive audience who was forced to listen to him talk because he would be on the plane and you have to the you

start talking to the guy next to him like you have to listen to him you're sitting there terrible what a nightmare yeah and there's no you know um airpods

so you you got to actually focus on what he's saying remember in um airplane when this is terrible and an outdated joke

but when the person's talking and then the person ends up hanging themselves on the plane they don't want to talk to them anymore I mean I know that that

movie is not acceptable anymore but it was a good movie but so obviously all this

isolation the loneliness the drinking the lack of social skills they all made him very very depressed and he started

having ideations that he would vocalize some people around hurting people for not liking him again this was a guy who

would shoot at dogs while he was trying to make friends with them like he he's

clearly he doesn't understand yeah so oh

yeah I forgot to mention this part when he was on the farm with Helen there was apparently like a Apple Sand there and

they would like sell apples through it and he would also walk around shooting his airsoft guns at customers while

hiding in the bushes he's he would have been 25 years old yeah this time so yeah

that's our perpetrator or antagonist whatever you want to call him the event itself chronologically what happened

like these stories are all kind of the same it's like where did you go and then what did you do the kite Joe thing but

it's it's it's it's all the same as everything else right they go somewhere they start blasting I'm just going to this is going to read pretty pretty easy

but chronologically what ended up happening was apparently Martin was infatuated with this one piece of

property in um bed and breakfast I was I almost called it an Airbnb it's a bed

and breakfast in um Tasmania called Seascape I looked it up I mapped it it is right on the water it is gorgeous it

is Lush it is green it is beautiful and he apparently wanted to buy this piece

of property which the owners David and nolene Martin did not want to sell to him so what ends up happening on April

28th 1996 is Martin goes to this part of Tasmania where Seascape

is and he murders the couple who own the um the bed and

breakfast he we don't know exactly but he murdered them so the actual events

happen happened around noonish on April 28th he was he killed them somewhere in

a 12-hour window before then so we don't know exactly when but it was somewhere around a 12-hour window before then so

presumably he was at the house he was stayed at the house he killed them he stayed there for a while with their

bodies before he ends up leaving what he ends up leaving with is he's in his car he's got a yellow Volvo and he takes the

keys to ski escape with him along with the weapons that the this couple owned

so they did own guns they owned guns okay so he hops in his car and he ends

up driving up a little bit to if you look at this part of Tasmania it's it's like a CA Resort type surprised that the

word Tasmania is real because it just like sounds so silly that's where the Devils come from no I get it but like

whenever I hear it I'm like that can't be real but like is yeah so it is so he

ends up driving a short trap over to this place called broad Arrow Cafe and

he took the rifle with him and it's just like every other shooting he walks in he

sits down apparently nobody nobody cares or notices this rifle he sees this couple visiting from Malaysia on his

right they're called moing and suang CH and he just starts shooting them he

shots shoots them both kills them both he then he then shoots and wounds uh this

other guy and then kills his 21-year-old girlfriend it sounds like even by this point we're up to like four shots being

taken nobody really knows what's going on it made me think of like this wasn't a this this is not a common thing

and when you hear the gunshots it's easy to just not know that they're gunshots

or to not understand what's happening you know 100% And even even here I feel like

that would happen you'd be like yeah this can't be real you know like remember we hear gunshots when we were in North Carolina yeah I mean I hear

gunshots here I mean yeah it's not that it's not that unusual of a thing but but

also this is a Sunday this is a Sunday early afternoon it is a beautiful day a

spring day most these people who are here are visiting like I said that that

one couple was visiting from Malaysia they all took a ferry in to town so they can be at this one Cafe be in this one

part of Tasmania to take in the ocean sites and in the lushing the lush green Rolling Hills so

you look at that environment you don't assume that there's murders happening around you right it's like like yeah

like I feel like your brain isn't meant for that you know and like even I was telling I was telling someone

not in America about how like the kids have drills for an active shooter where they like go into this little like

corner of their classroom and like hide behind desks and it's just like how's that real I mean I had that thought last

week Taylor because um I went to a comedy show in town and yeah they they swipe you and

everything but I was like I mean people are things happen right like now when

I'm in a crowd I think about this stuff and I think that was our that wasn't our reality when we were kids

so so he is where he ends up standing

when he's basically just standing shooting openly into the cafe is at the entrance/exit

so people are understanding what's happening they're ducking for cover what

we know is that in 15 seconds he killed 12 people and injured 10 others 15

seconds standing at this entrance at the other end of the entrance of the cafe is

the Cafe's gift shop because again tourist spot and he starts walking back

that way firing on people who are hiding under their uh tables and making his way

into the the back end where the gift shop is and kills another eight people

there he then moves to the parking lot where he kills four more people Again

tour spot most of these people were exiting off of buses they were like tour buses and so they were trapped like they

were basically just like they have nowhere to go and he just walks on a bus and most people are off but somebody's

still on and he just shoots them oh my God he then got in his car and he drove

up to the toll booth area where he encountered a woman who was fleeing with her three and six-year-old daughters no

and she slowed down because she thought that there was someone there to help and then he opens the door tells her to get

on the ground and he she does and she shoots her in the head no I know and she

he also kills the daughters this terrible I hate this he

Then Came Upon a BMW that was blocking the exit and it had four people in it and driver and three passengers and he

killed all of them and then he took all the weapons out of that out of his car and put him in the BMW and then drove

off with it he was driving back to the Seascape when he came across a Toyota

and just cut directly in front of it and in it was this guy named Glenn Pierce along with his girlfriend named Zoe Hall

Martin apparently got out with his rifle and he reached into the car and grabbed Zoe's head and tried to rip her out of

the car he was trying to kidnap her essentially and and then Glenn decides he's trying to gonna try

and protector he gets up and Martin points the gun at him and says get in the back of the BMW so he opens the back

of the BMW the trunk and gets Glenn to go inside there in the middle of all this Zoe is trying to climb over to the

driver seat to try and get away and Martin just shoots her and kills her so he was just looking for a hostage I'm so

glad that this I know we're talking about potentially doing video for our our show but like if we do do it like I

need to work on my face cuz my face is just a horror horror face right now yeah

yeah it's this is I mean there's just this is the most this is terrible it's very grotesque um police obviously found

him very quickly given the fact that he was at ccape shooting at cars were just driving by like

again it's this weird mix of evil mixed with severe mental illness like I don't even know what this actually is he was

really just taking pot shots at people while they were like driving by and so police figured out it was where he was

pretty quickly what ends up happening is that he goes inside the house with Glenn

he takes Glenn out of the trunk of the BMW he handcuffs Glenn to the staircase

and then he kind of just goes upstairs and disappears and is doing his own thing for God knows how long in in the weird hoarder house still no no he's at

the Seascape he's at the place of the first yeah during this time apparently

police were like hey we don't know how to take care of this and so we're going to reach out to Melbourne which is the

closest big city in Australia and get their SWAT team to come over and help us

figure this out apparently 18 hours had passed while they were trying to negotiate with them they'd called this cell phone and they were not a cell

phone they called the phone of the Seascape and we're talking to him through there and he wasn't giving himself up some way somehow in the

middle of waiting for the SWAT team to to show up Martin sets fire to the house

and he comes out like covered in flames and he like tries to make an escape

which is an odd thing to do when you've done this apparently he was trying to he set the fire to like confuse police and

then maybe make an escape it's like you're going to be seen I don't I don't know how you think you're not going to get caught on this but that was the game

plan so he's on fire he's on fire yeah he was on fire his closes were on fire

so Wilds he he runs out police put him out they send him over to a hospital to

get treatment they put the fire out they go inside they find Glenn was always handcuffed he was never released from

his handcuffs but he did have a bullet hole in his um in his head so he shot he shot and killed him

too ultimately Martin would plead guilty and receive 35 life sentences plus 1652

years in prison without the possibility of parole he's I think 57 58 somewhere around there right now he was initially

for a very long time I think it was somewhere around 8 years seven years kept in complete

isolation he was kept in complete confinement because everybody wanted to kill him everybody wanted to kill him

and eventually he uh made it into a slightly more LAX environment where he

was living in the mental ward and he was immediately attacked and he's uh he's

kind of been in that situation ever since he's in he's in maximum security jail now he left the mental board and

he's been trying to commit suicide for the past 15 years give or take and

hasn't succeeded yet so that's what his current condition

is um and you look at pictures of him you can tell that he is not doing good in there so I wanted to talk on what

happened after this after this occurred so what happened was Australia responded really really swiftly

they had attempted to nationally regulate I mean the same way here we do

in the US they try to nationally regulate fire arms before and again

Tasmania and Queenland were the holdouts saying you know the same stuff you would hear government overreach freedom of

Rights all that stuff right so once this event happened

the the public demand overrode any of that stuff and the prime minister at the

time was able to pass a law called the National Firearms agreement which mandated Licensing in all states of

firearms as well as Outlaw outline completely certain types of firearms so things like semi-automatic guns rifles

shotguns all those were completely banded outlawed in addition to that they spent somewhere around $340 million on a

gun buyback program where they were able to buy 640,000 weapons and bring them off the street entirely so this where I

got a little bit in the Weeds on what is the before and after progress so it has been 28 years now since Port Arthur

since this shooting happened from that date onward there have been 24 mass shootings in Australia with 58 deaths

and 71 injuries in the preceding 28 years

before Port Arthur there was 172 deaths and 115 injuries from mass shootings in

austral they they haveed it they haveed it so it doesn't solve the problem it

mitigates it but here's here's the thing as of right now Australia has 3 million

registered firearms and rough approximations put it at 260,000

unregistered guns right so like I said at the beginning of this right now Australia's um per capita rate of uh of

gun ownership is their 51st in the world which equates to about 14 guns per 100

people so I think that we have this perception that Australia just banned guns they didn't right they they're

still guns like zero they're not zero so the reason I raised this comparison

is because of one argument that anti-gun control Advocates make which if you ban

guns then the only people with guns are criminals right so that's the part where I really want to like get your Spin and

not your spin but your perspective on it so I pulled some numbers here so in 2022 Australia had 218 homicides including

one mass shooting so that's 2022 that's it H 28 that's like Chicago in June

guess how many Mexico had that year oh

100,000 32,2 23 homicides okay and Mexico has a

lower per per capita gun ownership rate than Australia

does even if you account for the fact that Australia is 6X smaller in

population than Mexico is would if you were to Multiplied that by six their

their their homicide rate it would still be 4% of what Mexico's murder rate actually is and the other thing that's

worth noting is to your earlier question Martin couldn't drive he didn't have a

license to drive a car he also he also had no license to own a firearm

right yeah and so and so that's kind of like where I I don't I don't have a

conclusion for this other than banning guns I think or not sorry

not banning guns because again that's not what Australia did regulating them more heavily I think would have the outcome

of less accidental deaths via Firearms like the story that you hear the most

that is not really not talked about or reported very much is a lot of the deaths that happen in the US from Firearms kids find their dad's gun and

shoot their buddy in the face I feel like that's reported on a lot gun violence is the number one cause of death for children in America yeah um

and that includes that like accidental picking up a gun dad's cleaning his gun in the living room blah blah blah blah

blah like it's that's very very real and very very scary yeah yeah so so I don't

know what the answer is but it's

um it's pretty compelling I was shocked to learn that they that Australia had so

many mass shooting since this happened because again we told that they don't have guns and it's like well they've had

24 mass shooting they almost had one mass shooting a year every year since this happened in a country of 26 million

people like yeah so it's not zero but I think so I think I mean I've seen like the videos of them like melting down

like the AR15s or whatever like the semi-automatic rifles and like I think

like the buzzword right is common sense gun law gun reform you know like the person who the woman who just shot I

don't think she killed anybody but she shot in Joel olin's mega church in Texas do you remember this she bought an AR-15

and she had been previously hospitalized her mental illness and her family was like trying to get her um put back into

a hospital because they were worried about her and all that was happening and she was able to purchase an AR15 see

those those are the arguments that I I will never understand from the proun people of like you know there's some

here's a thing here's a situation that I've thought of before in the past of like when you know somebody isn't all

there and they're in a dark place and they're in a depressive State and they

also happen to be a gun owner and you're like there is no situation where this

person having a gun is going to make their life or anybody anybody's life better somebody there should be a very

very quick Swift immediate response to look we have to take this thing away for now we will give it back to you after

whatever happens right I don't in in some states have that right they're called red flag laws where you can throw

up a red flag and say hey this person's not weird but a it's not every state

it's not federal it's a state-by-state thing and it requires you to go to the one source that you never want to put

somebody that you might care about in which is calling the cops yes you you don't you

don't you think to yourself like I don't want to be responsible for this person having a record I don't want them to be responsible for having to sit in like

for a minute in like the back of a cop car or handcuffs on or whatever the cops going getting trigger happy and killing

them yeah yeah that's like a real a real as well especially if like they're

already unstable and so well I mean I think well I think that also ties back

to mental health it ties back to having a community of people around you like Abraham Lincoln his friends took away

his knives because he was so depressed yeah and like they were like dude you're going to hurt yourself so we're going to

take this away from you and we'll give them back to you when you feel better you know like your friends should you should have a community that can do

things like that for you you know if you want to have like you know a bunch of guns for whatever reason

like they should be kept somewhere unbelievably safe you know like you

should have to take classes like you have to take classes to drive a car you

know you have to take classes by a gun I I think that the freewheeling

willingness of how or just like the the way we talk about guns in the US like

it's all right it's this that it it it has the ability to remove the gravitas

of what the device actually is and makes you treat it differently than you

probably should and yeah and yeah this isn't like I'm you know if you want to

own a gun own a gun I mean I I literally thought 50 times sailor while living here I need to get a gun because like

everybody has a gun like I should probably get a gun because everybody has a gun if somebody wants to break into my

house in the middle of the night and God willing if my dog doesn't kill them immediately then if they have a gun they

can have whatever they want right Luna is not going to kill someone immediately when they get into your house so then

I'm gonna get then then I'm get G I'm gonna say that that is a bad plan a because that's not gonna happen then I

need to get a gun yeah so so anyways that's the story again like I don't there's no answers there's no Solutions

none of that but it's it's more of like just a hey hey like here's this horrible thing that happened it is horrible when you read about it's really grow test

when you hear about this guy's life and you like try to put yourself in that psychology how can someone possibly do

this then you realize that this happens in the US like every other week is

terrifying and I don't I don't I mean I think like the best I mean the argument for that only bad guys will have guns is

like it's still less guns you know like the and like you said in the very beginning the more you have the more

problems that more people have people get killed I remember I think it was coar was talking to a congressman or

something like years ago and they got down to it and Congressman was like yeah you know like if there's more pools more

people will drown and coar was like exactly that was I remember that bit that was a good literally exactly that's

what I'm saying it's exactly what I'm saying you know if there's more guns more people are going to get shot and then like the whole Constitution thing

the well-regulated militia yeah of course you needed a gun in 177 [ __ ] 6 because the British for attacking and

also you were trying to move west and there were bears like sure you need a gun to eat you know I threw out I threw

out a stat earlier and I just want to confirm because I didn't actually give the numbers I mentioned that on a per capita basis for legal firearms

Australia has more than Mexico and just confirming it was 51 on

the list with 14.5 for Australia it's 60 for Mexico at 12.9 per 100 capita so so

I'm wondering if that's because of like well the economic uncertainty in Australia versus

Mexico you know if things are like better for your people I feel like that also makes

things safer Mexico is not better I know that's what I'm saying that's I feel like that's why Mexico would have more

gun violence than Australia well well no the re well yes yes for sure yes that

but the reason I'm bringing it up is because the number of legal firearms is not the problem in this Dynamic right

right that's what I'm saying so like what is the problem unregistered firearms that is that is a result of an

economy that is forcing people into the black market and the black market trades

to support themselves so it is you are you are correct you are correct but yeah

it's just like the the it's I'm just pointing out the registration piece of it and the licensing piece of it and the

volume of it isn't to it doesn't answer every question essentially yeah totally

yeah I think I mean I think this is it's so scary because it is another thing

it's like obviously small these mass shootings are a smaller scale than like a nuclear war but I think similarly

like the thread between our two stories this week is like it's indiscriminate you can't you can't

control your fate when it's in someone else's hands totally you know totally and and the fact that we have to like

legitimately think when we go into a crowd like where exit something can happen yeah totally I have like a plan

to like get my kids the [ __ ] out of Walmart as fast as possible I know where all the exits are you know if something

happens you should get us out as fast as we can like stuff like that and that's a real a real threat and very very scary

so uh some uplifting stories for you all this week I hope you enjoyed them I'm never going to sleep well again yeah you

and me you and me both um but any any final thoughts Taylor I did I just

remember to tell you that I did get my membership card to the satanic temple and I got this cool candle because I

wanted to give money to the satanic temple because of the stuff that at this cool candle with a skeleton on it that

is very cool how much did you give them um I don't know I think well there's a lot of fun things where you give them like $6 and66 cents a month they'll like

put it towards x y and z um but they're doing some really cool things in um in States like Iowa or Oklahoma and Utah

where um there's legislation on the table to put like unregistered clergy people in schools as

counselors they don't have to do background checks they just like are in there to be counselors and so the satanic temple will go and be like we

can't wait we'd love to send some of our satanic ministers into these schools and then those bills are not passing um

because those bills are very dangerous I can't imagine sending someone with no background check into a school I um

that's one of the things I love about the Church of Satan is like the satanic temple the Church of Satan is the not

great satanic temple is is the one we want really yeah chur Satan is one like Anton La they actually believe in Satan

the satanic temple does not believe in Satan they believe in the one that like goes around like basically roasting

politics and like that's the satanic temple got it okay okay yeah yeah yeah um and I I love that work I love putting

a statue of The Devil in a courthouse there there yeah there are attempts and are humor un wering it's so

candle is very cool I'm disappointed it's not red but it's very cool yeah thank that's fair that's fair um but

yeah it's cool so I was excited to give some give them some of my money to do keep up the good work because I hate

that [ __ ] keep your want to go to religious school go to religious school don't put it in my schools yeah

especially when they that's kind of weird yeah like it's always a youth pastor BT dubs who I know is the

criminal so be be on the lookout yes I did that

that was exciting sweet um well anything

else to say before we sign off nope please um send us emails Doom tood

gmail.com um we are on socials at Doom toel pod I'm putting some of our like

short videos on YouTube trying to get some attention there um so I'm doing that and then sometime this week we

should probably have Doom toil pod.com available um I'll definitely alert everybody when we do but it's I made it

I just can't get it to link to the domain which is a t old time an age-old

problem I'll figure it out we'll figure it out um cool um well thanks Taylor and

thanks everyone for listening and we'll join you night nightmares yeah cool talk you later bye bye

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