Let's talk about the US's prison camp in Cuba's Guantanamo Bay - the history of why we have the space from Cuba, who's been there, and who has promised to close it down, to no avail.
Let's talk about the US's prison camp in Cuba's Guantanamo Bay - the history of why we have the space from Cuba, who's been there, and who has promised to close it down, to no avail.
Hi Friends! Our transcripts aren't perfect, but I wanted to make sure you had something - if you'd like an edited transcript, I'd be happy to prioritize one for you - please email doomedtofailpod@gmail.com - Thanks! - Taylor
[Music] in a matter of the people of State of California versus orthal James Simpson case number ba09 and so my fellow
Americans ask not what your we're back we're here recording Taylor we are
doomed to fail yes I'm going to announce who we are at the top of the show oh my
heart go ahead we are doomed the fail I'm fars joined here by Taylor we are a twice weekly podcast covering some
topics most of all ones that seem to be doomed to fail and we are just getting going with today's episode which should
be released on Monday how are you doing Taylor I'm good how are you I'm good I'm
pretty I'm pretty tired I've had a very eventful weekend I went to Fredericksburg which is Wine Country like an hour and a half outside of
Austin which was amazing but you know it's like 3 hours of driving and then
you hang out and then you go back home and so uh and I was just doing housework
all day today so this is a nice little reprieve from from doing all that but
yeah yeah I'm happy to be inside we had I think our last weekend of baseball games potentially and so we played two
games yesterday and then today we had a hiton where like the kids look at to hit and the person who hits the furthest
gets a prize and we didn't win any of those but we did win a raffle prize which is fun we won like some artwork from one of the coaches Who does these
like cool stickers like I got this cute little sticker she this guy from a a real monsters oh yeah yeah yeah yeah so
it's fun very cool very cool yeah happy to be inside I'm sure I'm
sure yeah same here it's in the 90s here in Texas now and um man Summer's Summer
started too soon I know it's here I'm like oh why been gardening and I'm like no this no the sun's out back there yeah
so all we have to look forward to is a cicada Broods and a bunch of heat are you gonna get the cicas yeah yeah so I
think ours is the 13-year Rood and just just the one yeah
just the one just the 13-year one um and that should be happening between now and
July so we'll uh we'll see but I mean yeah there there it was always a thing
here I mean not always obviously I don't come out every year like it was it's been a thing i' I recall this happening before I remember when I was little when
I lived in Illinois I remember hearing it and then my father-in-law has sent us some videos from um North Carolina where
you can just like hear them because they got both oh is it it's already happened I guess yeah would have already started
happening there okay yeah it happened up there he sent us a picture they're gross they're so big and like big you know
they're just like heavy they're heavy bug yeah they're big and they're kind of they're scary
looking Until you realize they're just really big dumb idiots they're just stupid an they're really dumb apparently
they're Goofy and they die so easily apparently I was listening this one podcast that said that the
reason biologically why it makes sense for them to emerge in trillions is because the first wave just has to get
eaten by everything like the you know they're just there they're not going to make it yeah they're like Canon fod
they're just there to get eaten by all the bugs the Infantry yeah exactly exactly funny so um that I saw a lizard
the other day and I I kind of scared it it was outside and I was like oh hey and then it like jumped and it ran into the
garbage can and it hit its head in the garbage can and it made a little Boop it was just like really cute it just like
then it like kind of shook its head and like ran the other way yeah I'm a huge uh we we're huge lizard family here um
so I think I go first today you do all you this one's going to be a little bit weird right because it's a little
open-ended and it's like there's a host of things that I'm thinking about lately
that I've not really absorbed and digested and totally understood in the context of like everything else that's
going on in the world what's going on so you're having a midlife crisis no no
this all kind of it's interesting because what's going on with like Israel and
Palestine it it's brought up other thing it here I'll I'll just segue bit so yeah
obviously you've listened to serial before right so serial uh they're on season three Have you listened to season
3 no okay season 3 is all about like these individual stories of people who
have been detained by the US government in the war on terror
and I think it's like 11 parts now it's really interesting and I have very very mixed feelings about it
because they make they try to personalize these stories in a way that
I think just washes away like what they're culpable of so like neither here nor there but in addition to that I was
just listening to Ezra Klein's podcast and he had on a professor Yale law
school Professor on international law her name was ESU bahi or B which I
butchered but um and she was talking a lot about like what's going on with
Israel and Palestine and the United Nations and all that stuff and it just and she referenced
how everybody we we we now people are looking at the situation saying the us
or Israel's overreacting to to Israel or to Palestine and like yeah we also did
the exact same thing and nobody said anything to us we way overreacted in the war on terror we did a bunch of stuff
that would have been against international law and it's funny how when we do it nobody seems to we don't I
mean there were there were plenty of people protesting when we did it towards yeah towards like after like the the
meat of it came out and so that's actually what I'm kind of go going into here I was going to start by doing
basically a story on gitmo but then there's other stuff that
was going on that I started digging into into the precursors of what happens to someone before they get to get mod and so that's kind of like this weird
overwatching story of what I wanted to kind of cover because also Taylor like we forget this we're kind of we're kind
of old like I know these are all 23y old events like I've been thinking that too
yeah with some of my stuff but I'll talk about and I told you I was going to talk about the internet a little bit and and we talked about that last week this week
but yeah no we're old and and that's when when I was this Ezra kin episode
and she was like do do we all forget how over the toop we were back then when
this and I was like yeah kind of kind of it's kind of just like washed away of like well that was a crazy time wasn't
it and we just moved on and so so I'm gonna I'm going to go into go into that
basically it's like a little bit of a story about guano Bay but also like some other topics that are around there so I'll just Dive Right In into kind of the
history of guantan bay and like why we even have a piece of Cuba which is a little bit weird so uh guano Bay it is a
bay on the Southeastern tip of Cuba with an inlet that starts at the Caribbean
Sea and Winds North approximately 12 miles into Cuba today we recognize Cuba
as an author authoritarian State ruled by the Communist party which came out in the 1950s during the Cuban Revolution
but the precursor of all that was the Spanish American war so that start and
I'm sure I think you you touched on this before um I I always think about the sinking of the main yeah yeah yeah that
was one of the pr precursors to all this so uh the Spanish American War started
in 1898 and that was between the United States and Spain for a variety of reasons which you actually just call out
one of them the seeing the us as main was one of them the other one was they were I was it McKinley yeah pres there
the media was calling McKinley you know weak and basically there was a bunch of like just Shoring up support for a war
against Spain at this time the biggest reason was obviously the economic um in military interest the United States had
in Cuba apparently um sugar imports from Cuba were a huge huge deal and the
instability that Spain was causing because Spain was a brutal they were they were brutalizing the Cuban people
and that was causing a lot of issues so the US decided to take an interest in Cuba and by extension of that Spain and
declared war this war only lasted three and a half months it was an incredibly incredibly quick defeat between uh the
US and Spain so for about four years after that war which lasted again three
and a half months the US maintained operational government control over the island and it established a government
and prepared Cuba for Independence the US wanted to prevent
having to intervene militarily in into Cuban Affairs again and so what they
decided to do was that they were going to establish Naval command over part of
the island and they were going to do that for by signing this lease with the then established government of Cuba in
1902 for a Perpetual lease for Guantanamo Bay for a price of $2,000 per
year which was later changed to $3,700 and then later on to $4,000 a year so
that was the Genesis of why we hit have want Bay is that what we're still paying for it we are now paying
$4,085 per year wow yeah it's a bargain that's a lot less than I pay for my home
it is it is also um it's weird I think about because you hear guano Bay and you just Envision the worst the worst things
ever you look up pictures it is gorgeous there I'm sure it is I'm sure I mean
Haven I haven't been to Cuba but obviously but I've been to like Puerto Rico and the Bahamas and other Caribbean
places and it's beautiful down there totally totally yeah so the purpose of the least again it was so that the US
had some sort of command over the island and what they essentially establish was a Naval facility on the island on on
this Southeastern tip the property itself contains the naval station it's
called Naval Station guant guantan Bay nsgb and that's just Naval logistics for
the fleet operating in the Caribbean there's leward point field which is an Airfield uh there's Hospital point which
is self-explanatory there's training areas there's Family Support Center to provide support and services to the
military personnel that live there residential areas restaurants homes shopping centers schools things like
that and then there is the detention camps so
the original detention camps at gitmo were Camp Delta Camp echo Camp iguana
and Camp x-ray so why did we start doing this in the first place like again I'm
kind of taking it as just understood that we House people at Kido but if
you're not in your near 40s that might not be a foregone conclusion so uh bear
with me on this the the origin of how folks ended up why the US decided to
House people on guano Bay really starts by examining the concept known as black
sites so are you familiar with this term um I can guess what that means it's bad
right I mean bad and very stive you don't need to know anything like it it
the term is very self-explanatory so in the immediate aftermath of September 11th basically the government said we're
not sparing any expense any sort of moral justifications in terms of figuring out what happened who's
responsible and how we can bring them to justice and realistically to to prevent this from happening ever again so they
went about establishing the CIA went about establishing secret prisons which are known as black sites in a bunch of
different countries not in the US for obvious reasons and the entire point was
for them to outside outside of transparent um channels like the
Judiciary collect intelligence from high value targets essentially yeah so we
actually don't know exactly where these facilities are or really how many of them there are all we know is again
they're all outside of the US and they're all outside the ability for the us for any entity to provide public
scrutiny on it so the method the CIA used to basically find the people that they
would stuff into these black sites was a concept known as extraordinary extraordinary rendition so basically the
US understandably doesn't want to tip off these other countries they don't want to let them know they're operating there they don't want to let them know
what they're intending on doing and so if somebody at the CIA suspected that an
individual in a foreign country was you know a high value Target in this war against Terror then they would basically
Monitor and track them until the time was right and they just abduct them so they would blindfold shackle and put
diapers on them and typically put them on a military flight and they' typically
be Shackled to the cargo area that's why they were wearing diapers because it would just go wherever you're going to go and they be flown to a black site
there's so many details here that I I didn't actually write out but there was a period of time where I don't know who
the government governing body was for this but in the immediate aftermath of 911 essentially every country as more or
less agreed that the US was allowed to operate and fly aircraft without any
call signs over their ter like it was basically hey like in this do your thing
we're not gonna ask any questions yeah situation I mean I feel like everything you're saying is like I feel like we are
conditioned to be like well of course we have to have spies you know because it's like all kind of like what I was talking
about last week it's like all mutually assured spying on each other you know yeah yeah and we're I'm like a part of
me is like yeah totally of course we have black s and then part of me is like why would we ever have to do that but also like you know yeah the world we 11
I I I do I do want to have like in a side conversation about like yeah about
that piece we we'll get to that here in a minute so um at this point this individual hypothetically if you picture
yourself you're Shackled to this aircraft carrier or aircraft and you are at this point referred to colloquially
as a ghost detainee basically some that doesn't exist anymore nobody knows where you are your government doesn't know
where you are your F doesn't know where you are you're just kind of wh way again there's no flight records there no prison records you're just gone right
that's how they' essentially land at black sites where they'd be subject to what is I mean essentially torture but
the government calls it enhanced interrogation the CIA approved methods being waterboarding hypothermia stress
positioning which would be things like you'd have your hands Shackled to something above your head holding you up
that way but then You' also be Shackled the flo so you have to stand for long periods of time it's like really
uncomfortable very uncomfortable slapping around that face and body there's other branches of government that have other approved methods such as
loud music or sleep deprivation or using dogs or other things and still fear and
intimidation but again like we don't really actually know what happens to these black sides that's what's being
talked about and approved you I think you can basically do whatever you want at a black site it feels like yeah
you're kind of just like there and we we do know that prisoners have died at
other facilities such as we know for a fact at GMO or an abig grabe in the past so it's it's totally plausible that
worse things happen at black sites yeah but over time as the heat on the war on
teror kind of started to simmer down and investigative journalists started digging into these disappearances the US
government realized it might be in everyone's best interest if they stopped kidnapping these people and putting them
on foreign soil and to make the process even a little bit more transparent not a lot but just
a little bit more the problem was they didn't want them to have any legal rights and that would that would slow
everything down and you don't want it to slow down because these people could have information they could result can
they could prevent a future attack so right so like again to your point like
purely from like a human utopic perspective bad thing yes but also what
else you exactly I don't know it's such a good question so so basically the government
looked around and they decided that guantan bay was the perfect place
basically in theory it is on Sovereign
land that the US doesn't own because it's a lease after all it is therefore
not sub to judicial oversight and so they're like we'll go ahead and we'll go
ahead and put these people there basically they wanted col pal and cona rice basically want everybody to stop yelling at them and they're like we'll
just do this e way to get around this the way I kind of understood it was that the teny
could graduate so to speak from a black site to GMO so that doesn't mean that
they that that everything just ended up at git mode so like black s sites still were operational there was still a large
number of the Tes that were there it was just that some of some people were also stationed here so in January 11th of
2002 is when Camp x-ray the first kind of temporary Camp opened and at that
time it accepted 25 detainees at that point the US allowed some organizations
to visit so for example they had the International Red Cross visit they also had the
FBI show up and do forensics to determine whether torture had occurred there or not um but otherwise their
identities and everything else was Kept Secret if you look up pictures from this time you'll notice that there's really nothing identifiable about the people
who are detained there they're all wearing masks you can't see their face you actually have no idea who they are Camp Delta contains the actual
entire Detention Facility that's what opened up after Camp x-ray kind of stopped being it its temporary little
little thing and Camp Delta was like the the legitimate one um and basically it's
run and operates to the standards of a Maximum Security Prison and contains other camps within it so the the Tes
would move around between these facilities based on things like how valuable the information they could provide was or how Cooperative they are
therefore how how much privilege they would basically get um how highrisk they
are to do things like self harm whether they are suffering from any psychological issues and also whether
they're minors or not because believe it or not there's one Camp called Camp iguana which actually sounds kind of charming after you just described your
lizard experience it was actually thee camp for miners it was for kids and so
that's the that's would keep them I hate that and that's only I almost hate that because those poor kids I mean they've
probably potentially been what what is your life like if you end up there it's been terrible yeah
like your life's run absolutely um there was also Camp echo which seemed it was
mostly afforded to prisoners or detainees who uh got more privileged access things like EXC exercise
facilities and stuff like that then there was Camp no which again doesn't
sound good it was apparently another black site that again nobody knows this
stuff we're just kind of intuiting it so apparently it was sort of at GMO but they had a carve out around the boundary
line of GMO so that it was technically in Cuba but but no Cubans would walk over there so it was it was part of GMO
effectively it was assumed that it was run by the CIA um we
don't know exactly all the details the camp was described as having no guard Tower but surrounded by what was called
or what's known as con coner concertina wire which is basically that gnarly curled up barb wire you know um
Personnel working at GMO would say that they have observed a transfer over to this facility in that non-uniform
Personnel seem to be working there which heavily implies it's a CIA run operation there are two other such
facilities that exist but kind of don't exist within the boundaries of Camp Delta iguano Bay one is called
strawberry fields which at this point I think they're just trying to be cheeky with their terminology yeah um this is
the same concept as Guantanamo Bay except these people probably would never have been released but for this one
ruling called razul vers Bush which basically granted get modan's access to habus Corpus by the Supreme Court the
original intent it sounds like of Strawberry Fields was that's a place you go to just be held forever that's it
like you're basically just buried alive um Penny Lane this was like I hate to
weird to use this term but this was in theory like the most luxurious version of the camps this was where basically
double agents would be trained up so if they caught somebody like an Al-Qaeda member they would train them up to
basically be a double agent and send them back into the field I have no idea how this works I imagine all these
people were like I'm just going to get shot in the head one way or another it's either these guys who shoot me in the head or the next guy shoots me in the head I have no idea for real I mean like
s people who are like double or triple agents I'm like I don't know man like you are walking a fine line of being
murdered tell like once you're once you're in this boat you're just going to
drown like there's no getting out of this situation yeah so going back to the Supreme Court aspect of all this part of
the reason I'm assuming everybody understands this the part of the reason why we did this was based on a concept
within the Geneva Convention which the US helped the write which mandates Humane treatment the right to legal
counsel and the right not to be tortured for prisoners of War once they are captured the US argue that technically
they can do all this stuff because the people captured are unlawful enemy combatant which is a term of art saying
that hey These people aren't fighting on behalf of a government when they were captured therefore subject to the Geneva
Convention these people were operating outside of that and why G GMO originally
at least could operate largely in secrecy and with very limited access for Satan to legal rights in the years since
it started functioning the the tany center until now usage has basically been declining year-over-year so at its
height it held 680 to t e now it's somewhere around 40 and whoa
yeah so Obama tried to outright shut it down and he was blocked by Congress Trump I remember that was part of
his promises campaign promises right yeah yeah and then Trump by executive
order basically removed all restrictions and access to be able to use the the uh
the camp but that didn't matter like I think he was mostly just doing it as like I'm tough on crime kind of a guy
versus like the actual intelligence and Military needs weren't really there and so it didn't result in a dramatic
increase in usage and Biden also said he's gonna try and shut down guano Bay which is weird because I'm like who's
talking about this still like is it's still a campaign issue but he basically
kept most ly he nothing has really changed since Trump so like but it but it doesn't matter because it it was
naturally decreasing in usage anyway so it was having like a natural death and so there was no need to really go
overboard about it as of right now there's one person who has been there since almost day one and that's KH shik
Muhammad KSM which was essentially considered the Mastermind of the 911 attack he also was the master rind
between the 1993 world World Trade Center bombing as well so like he really had a thing Against the World Trade Center
Again part of the point of the serial episodes I listened to was
very these people are basically here indefinitely and you know what we're
doing to them isn't right it was very like Pro the detainees in a way that was
a little bit like I get it like you you know a very Progressive Viewpoint is is
Let's Be let's let this slide but at the same time like what what are you supposed to do a guy like this he's been
in detention for 20 years without really any formal charges I mean he's had some charges here and there but right as of
right now he's awaiting a death penalty case for the 911 attack and he's been awaiting it pretty much since 2003 he
was most recently postponed on a hearing in 2023 so 20 years on he's still waiting
to have his hearing and so that's kind of where I left it with what's going on
with the entire Insanity around the war on terror between the extraordinary rendition of black sights to ghost toes
to Geto transfers to all it's just a crazy hodgepodge mess of like but what
but again to my to the earlier point what else are you supposed to do like yeah you kind of have
to T this also let me down this other track where I was reading about the 911
uh actual hijackers and one of them no wasn't one of of them it was like five
or six of them that mosad had actually told the US government about like the
spy agencies conferred with each other on this and they knew that they were here doing shady [ __ ] and still nothing
happened which is awful it's awful and I actually I'm going to talk about that a little bit on my section as well is
like we don't need all of this like Advanced interrogation as much as we need like a
CRM government used to just like talk to each other you know like if one side of the government knows something about
these people and another side like is trying to find this like talk to each other like they don't talk to each other
and I've read like several books that just like point that out again and again and you're like oh my God like I thought you feel like we should
be passed this because we hear stories of like true crime in like a long time ago when like you know they're looking
for this person in this County but not in this County and they never found them you know but like now we should be able
to share information and like they don't yeah I was just um I was relising actually to the last podcast Oklahoma
City Bombing episode I'm talk about that too and that was basically the point was
that every agency knew a piece of the puzzle but they didn't want to share
with each other because they all wanted to like bag the group and back the people the baddies and it was it was
just a missed opportunity based on lack of cooperation and not looking out for
the bigger picture I guess yeah yeah it's really it's I think it's
a self-fulfilling prophecy with like all of this military stuff it's like if you want to create these you don't know people
who are terrorists and they're going to fit the M you put
them in you know I will say that on a personal level I don't totally have an
issue with the government spying on it citizens I know and actually this is so
so much overlap but I just was reading a book that I'm not finished reading but they're talking about um how a lot of
the things the government can do is they can like hold on to information but not look at it and be like we'll look at it later if we need to you know so that's
they can like get around being like we're not spying on everyone like we're just like holding your information in case you do something wrong then we're
going to go back and look through what you've done you know when we suspect you of something we'll look back on all that stuff but I'm also like fine with
cookies because I'm like don't show me ads for [ __ ] I don't want show me ads for stuff I want yeah I'm I'm totally
P the surveillance state that we're in pass that I the um it's interesting because if 9911
hadn't happened you wouldn't have known that 911 hadn't happened and so it's easy I think now we
look at like Snowden and the prism program and all that stuff when like this is awful the government's doing all that stuff it's like yeah but you don't
know what didn't happen because they did that you know right if they had or what
what they could have what they have stopped potentially since then yeah yeah so I would rather have them read my
emails and not go through 911 again dude do go even further like go even further
like like if you could actually preempt any like School shooters like do that too like I don't know that's I mean
those people but those people are [ __ ] saying that [ __ ] online all the time anyway you know they always look back and they're like oh look that
person said he's going to kill everybody at school on Reddit you're like well someone should have gone and talked on
him yeah so that's what I'm saying I'm saying surveil more yeah I agree I'm not
doing anything wrong so I agree which is probably not the stance that I should
have but also I'm like I'd like them to stop the baddies yeah we're on the same we're on the same page I don't I don't
know where that aligns that's one of the things I was thinking about when I was thinking about the Ezra Klein show I was like was like I have no idea when he's
talking to someone like are they liberal or conservative no which is like a kind of
like a really good interviewer which is like totally I have no idea like it says reclined so you know what he is but like
still like yeah I'm just listening to this person's thoughts on this thing yeah yeah yeah so anyways that's my
story I know it's not there wasn't like a ton here but like I I went down the rabbit hole the serial listen to the serial thing because I listened to all
of them back to back I was I was pretty obsessed with it and I walked away not feeling the way I
think they wanted the audience to feel but I'm curious if anybody else listen to it to right in at last what's our
show called doomed to fail foris has just plugged like 7,000 other podcasts
in this episode so if you are looking for something to listen to farz will plug 7,000 other podcasts for you in
this episode we are doomed to fail right to Us ad doomp POD at gmail.com and tell us if you listen to as oh my God the
serial podcast season 3 I'm G to stop talking Taylor you got
to take over um yeah let us you think about all these things it's a complex
question and thank you fars for bringing it up and I want to um yeah it's those
there's so many things happening right now that are like oh I'm G to talk about this too let's just get to M that are
like science fiction happening in real life and not science fiction but like crime fiction like all that stuff like
has happened you know and that I think is something that's interesting that like well I'll tell I'll tell you about this in five minutes but a lot of things
that happened in like 1980s about the internet they happened in movies first and then the government was like
oh no could that really happen and then they were like oh [ __ ] yeah you know like whatever you can imagine is probably happening or has happened yeah
yeah for sure and which is crazy yeah wow you just um is this everything everywhere all at once I didn't see that
yet I feel it's not it's not good I feel stressed out about it because I feel like I I'm supposed to think it's good
and I don't know if I'm going to and oh my God last night went to the movies and saw if the new children's movie about
imaginary friends and it was awful it was like Ry Ryan Reynolds again just like do you playing R Ryan Reynolds do
you can you do anything else it's so weird do you have any other tone in your voice I don't think so have you ever
play any other character but yourself anyway wildly bad um yeah here's here's
the thing I don't want anybody to feel bullied into likeing movies that aren't good I watch that movie because
everywhere everything all at once whatever it's called because everybody I was being told that it's the
best game i' ever going to see and it's going to blow my mind it's going to be the most I me thing and I watch like this is just nonsense like I don't
that's why I'm afraid to see it because I've already heard that so like once someone says that you're like ah [ __ ] you know you've heard that because I
brought that up and I got like lambasted for saying no no no no I've heard that it was great so that's yeah that makes
me nervous to watch it cuz I'm worried that I'm not going to love it and then I'm going to have to like live with that and then like I don't know live like you
hey Live Your Truth live Your Truth live Your Truth everyone like what you like that's not
not lesson of this of this episode but you know um yeah let's end the GMO
episode like what you like um anyways uh okay so that's the episode is there
anything you want to tell us Taylor before we before we bounce and go to your episode I do I have
um I want to share this in a more professional way later but um my husband Juan Carlos has a website called rewan
carlos.com and on it he talks a lot about mental models in decision-making and he has this really cool um deck of
cards that he just made he has a book you can download a deck of cards with like over a hundred different mental models and ways of thinking on them and
I was going through the deck the other day and two of them we talked about in our last episodes um mutually assured destruction and the Swiss Cheese model
are both one of the cards in his deck so take pictures of them and I'll share them and tell everybody where to buy it because it's super interesting and
helpful for you know jobs group people just thinking about how you're thinking
and different strategies so I will share it love it he also has an app and he has an app mental models app there you go
and it's free to download M nice everywhere you download apps yeah awesome awesome way to go um sweet
anything else NOP find us on social um Doom to fail pod on everything I don't
know our website I need we need to talk about it because I can't get it to work which is such a bummer because it's so
good but the DNS isn't working I don't know why um I we can do the take this offline
yeah Che it offline we'll do it later um yes find us at doelp pod on the socials
and write to us at dpot gmail.com yay sweet saor
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