In War Games Part 2, we talk about the 1997 Game 'Eligible Receiver' where "Government Hackers" were able to disable civilian power grids, get into top-secret government networks, and take command of a ship. We chat about how the internet is really young, and how we are really old, and how everything that Hollywood can imagine is probably true.
In War Games Part 2, we talk about the 1997 Game 'Eligible Receiver' where "Government Hackers" were able to disable civilian power grids, get into top-secret government networks, and take command of a ship. We chat about how the internet is really young, and how we are really old, and how everything that Hollywood can imagine is probably true.
Sources:
Dark Territory - Frank Kaplan
NSDD145
https://irp.fas.org/offdocs/nsdd145.htm
The Kill Chain - https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/51338665
Sneakers - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEhgUxQ322A
Hi Friends! Our transcripts aren't perfect, but I wanted to make sure you had something - if you'd like an edited transcript, I'd be happy to prioritize one for you - please email doomedtofailpod@gmail.com - Thanks! - Taylor
[Music] in a matter of the people of State of California versus orthal James Simpson case number ba09 and so my fellow
Americans ask not what your country can do for you ask what you can do for your
country hello you said um oh did I wanted to show you my kids school pictures but you press recording but I
was going to put them in the picture look at look at this look at this grown girl look at this look at this boy look
at his little arms crossed anyway um little boss posing just
they've really killed it with their pictures this season so they had great P pictures too goid yeah good job so
welcome to the new and revised to fil where I introduced the episodes um ahead of talking uh a
lot oh yeah we're doing the fail welcome to do the fail I'm Forge joined here by Taylor uh we just recorded ep the first
episode for the week and now we're recording the second episode which if I recall correctly is is going to be part
two of our episode from last week and also apparently you know I kind of I
kind of touched on a little bit with the talks I had this week about spying and Espionage and the CIA and all that stuff
yeah that's kind of what we're talking about sweet um so it
is last week we did AEL Archer 83 which was a 1983 war game um and this week
we're doing eligible receiver 97 which is a inter internet war game they did in 1997 last week I did preface saying that
like I heard that a lot of people from caner fizgerald were there and that 15 of them died in 911 and I cannot find
that written down anywhere like did I make that up I don't know so I'm not going to talk about that anymore so I don't know this did they have an office
in one of the towers well yeah like over like about 650 people at caner Fitzgerald died at 911 most of the
people that worked there died they were actually supposed to go to the hotel my mom works at in Las Vegas like the next
month for an event and they had to cancel it because everybody was dead like chander Fitzgerald did a great job
of coming back from that but I had heard in one of the books I've
been reading and I've been reading so many books these past couple of weeks that I can't go back and find it because if also I'm listening to them so I can't
like thumb through it and try to figure out where I was you probably heard right yeah so I
heard somewhere that part of the group that was doing this was in the World Trade Center in Windows on the world like and then then in 1987 and they did
this exercise and then later some of them would die in the 911 attacks I don't know if that's true or not if you read any of the books that I've been
reading over the past three weeks give us a call and tell me if you read that too that's too specific to have been
made up like I think it's I think I read it possibly a nuclear war or scenario I potentially read it there but I don't
know if that's where I heard about AEL Archer to begin with and then I read that book last week the 1983 War Game
book so did I read it in there and then this week I've been read reading um dark
territory by Frank Kaplan about the internet and I've also been reading a new book by fared Zakaria the CNN
journalist called what's it called the age of revolutions which I've really really
enjoyed it's been just about like times in the world where people have revolted and he talks a lot about how there not
there isn't a mythical past and you know he talks about the French Revolution and just a bunch of really fun stuff the
Industrial Revolution so I don't think I read it in there though but I've just have I'm also got clear and present
danger from um my daughter had an orchestra concert at a church and they had this like huge wall of paperbacks
that you can take and like bring back or share or whatever like a lending library took clear and prent dangerous I'm in
the middle of that so I got a lot going on in my brain I love that movie I don't
know if I've seen that movie it's Harrison Ford in that it's Harrison Ford I should see it um did you know did you
know that like clear and present danger some of all fears it's the same
character it's all Jack Ryan right it's all Jack Ryan MH I thought that was a
recent invention with um John krinski doing him but I guess Arison Ford played him and Ben Affleck did too yeah I want
to advocate for John krinski not writing any more movies after I saw if because it was terrible who wrote that back in
John Kinski he wrote it yeah it was awful did your kids like it Florence
liked it miles liked it one and I were like I can't believe we just watch that
like everything all everywhere all once yeah um so anyway I also saw something on Reddit
this week that was like you should get a t-shirt that has something that happened on your birthday on it that like was is
like a funny thing so my birthday is June 5th and Ronald Reagan died on June 5th 2004 so would would be awesome if I
had a t-shirt that said Ronald Reagan died on my birthday I think where you are that
would be awesome well received it could also just be like
I I feel it could go either way you could be like oh I'm so sorry for you I don't know makes you laugh so hard so for
you I found two things that happened on your birthday one of them is well there were
like a ton of really funny things that you could put on a t-shirt for your birthday but one of them is the song Thrift Shop by mmore was released on my
birthday wouldn't that be hilarious for you t-shirt would you like that I I did have a moment where I thought mmore was
going to be the next big thing and that was shame on me he's fine um but actually what happened on your birthday farmer is
on the day you were born the USSR performed underground nuclear test so you can get a sh that says the USS
performed a nuclear underground test the day I was born you know which mama was no I love their s bomba that's like my
favorite it wasn't that one but I do love that idea um but those are great um and I bring that up because the day
before my first birthday Ronald Reagan watched the movie War games that we
talked about last week with Matthew rck you know what I'm talking about yeah of course it's where where the monitor is
just like black background with the green letters right of course and again speaking of like going
back to our last episode how old we are like that wasn't that long ago hisory
Hispanic human evolution that was Zero time ago here to anybody who's like semi young adjacent there was a point in time
when if you wanted to play a computer game you would have to type in the actual file directory where that
computer game was stored so you would go in to dos and you would type c colon SL
slash and you would manually type in the directory I know it's wild I'm I'm I'm under my desk getting I
have to turn my fan on because I'm getting hot talking about this hold on um but yeah not that long ago that all
this was happening so Ronald Reagan goes up to
wherever he goes Camp David whatever settles in watches war games comes back to the Oval Office the next day and he's
like in a regular meeting with his Joint Chiefs of Staff or whoever and he's like hey did you guys see this movie and they
hadn't because it had just come out and Ronald Reagan got like to see it at home I wonder if the president still does
that he like every really want moving out like he had a lot of special privileges no I know but like what do
you think he requests Biden yeah Gone With the Wind probably I don't
know um I mean he I could get that from him right now I'm like
new um so he goes to the office and he's like has anybody seen this and they're like no you know like what is he talking
about and he's like could this happen and they were like no you know it's probably just a movie whatever and then
they come back to him a week later with a report and they're like um actually sir uh it's way worse than that wait
Taylor before you get into it because I haven't seen War Games i' probably seen bits and pieces of it yeah you just like
what did okay what did what did he what did Ronald wian see he saw a kid hacking
into like the military computer system and potentially responding to like a
threat by the Soviet Union and starting World War III he thought he was playing like a game so like Ender's Game came
out in 1995 or 1985 have you read that no of course I haven't read that one I'm
just well it was it it's a kids book it's so good but it's about you know the future and um this child who's like
going to save the world from these aliens but essentially what he does is plays a video game to um attack the aliens which is like drone Warfare now
you know like it's predicting all the stuff that's happening okay yeah yeah yeah so I don't I don't know exactly
what happened at the end of War games but I know that he like almost ruined the
world it's funny because it sounds like Ronald Reagan's understanding of technology is the exact same of as every
parents understanding of Technology of like if I'm on the inter internet everybody's seeing what I'm doing and it's not like he wasn't wrong
you know and this is all so unbelievably new so
um like it's not weird that he thought this you know like and everybody being
like the Internet isn't a threat nothing bad could happen is happening all around him so even after this happens the
government really doesn't do anything they're not regulating anything they're not even like locking things down they
don't know what it means you know like they don't know what a network is like
we know what a network is kind of but like they don't know what a network is they don't know what that means and um
so there's a couple times when like Hollywood movies because Hollywood has you know a better imagination than the
government and a bigger budget for these things like presupposing that the government's like oh [ __ ] could that
really happen and then they have to like go figure it out and this is definitely one of them so
the thing with this is we've been doing like intercepting data and intercepting Communications for always what was the
Will Smith Jee hack Enemy of the State didn't that that predict stoden and like prism and all that it might have okay
I'm sorry distracted no I don't know we should maybe watch some of these movies and have a movie club because I do want
to learn more yeah an Aman political thiner it's all the NSA I'm going talk about the NSA in a second so that's who we're talking about too so yeah let's
yes I'm sure that exactly right because we've been doing things like
interrupting intercepting people's communication always you know like there's always going to be some
dude who like knocked down a dude on a horse to like get the things that they were sending we could do it with
telephone wires we could do it with telegraphs and we would do things like you know either shut the system down or
send the wrong codes and the wrong information to people and we've always been doing that as long as we figure out
how to do it we've been doing it so that's always been saying but the internet is like a whole new thing because you don't have to physically be
anywhere you know like doesn't matter where you are doesn't matter where the person is like you can figure out what they're saying so also anything that we
do our enemies can do as well and that's the way everybody thinks so no matter where you are who your enemy is if
you're learning to do something on a computer your enemy is either not far behind you or they've already done it you know things are just kind of evolve
like that quickly so oh also like never forget when do remember when the
engineers the last job we had together um did that presentation and they said there is no Cloud it's just someone
else's computer I don't remember that but that sounds right yeah I think about that all the time because I'm like
you're right like there is no Cloud it's someone else's computer like stuff isn't saved forever infinitely in something
infinite that that doesn't exist it's like a very real piece of Hardware where things are saved it's not someone's computer it's like a warehouse that
Amazon controls well it's not but it's physical you know is physical yeah yeah
and now you know when you work at any corporate job like we do or any job at all you're going to get a text from your
CEO that's not from them asking you to buy gift cards and I used to train on this at my last role as well and I found
some stories of like at one point some dude from Estonia called a bunch of
offices at Google and Facebook and was like hey um I had a work order to come
and fix this printer and I did it and no one paid me and they would just pay him and he made like millions of dollars
because you know there's things where like people just were like oh okay and then they would just pay him or when
someone hacked Robin Hood they did it by calling in the help desk and asking to have their password reset Taylor I hope
I'm so rich one day that somebody can scam me out of a million dollars and I don't even notice it yeah don't even
notice for real but I also was talking to someone I won't say who because I don't want to put get their company in
trouble but whose companies having trouble trouble with people actually clicking on the links and opening up the text messages you know cuz like they try
to make you like you know they scare you like this it's litigation or I'm your CEO I need you right away or things like
that so like that hadn't happened that had been happening in like different ways like I guess I could write you a
letter and tell you that I'm doing something you would write back and we could like do a thing like remember when Mar tette was that guy was tricked into
buying that necklace yeah like that's [ __ ] like that has always happened but now it can happen so much more exp
exponentially because of the internet you know so um everyone be careful get a
password manager don't answer weird texts from your boss they're not going to text you ask you for gift cards
they're not um and just you know make sure that you're not opening any attachments and all that stuff and like
most of us know that now but still not everyone because they wouldn't do it if it didn't work you know totally um and
some of the first things that people did using the internet to do this like cyber warfare is they would do simple things
like send an email and be like hey it's your commander meet me at this corner at 5:00 I have to tell you something and
then they the guy would get there and they'd kill him you know or put him in jail or whatever so as right hard to
trick people in different ways so um as far as like the presidents go and again
talking about how new this all is so Dick Dick Cheney and George Bush they
had they had never used a computer when they were in office like there just like wasn't a reason to you know we so old
Taylor I know and like Barack Obama was the first president who had a personal cell phone
and he had a Blackberry do you remember this and he didn't want to give it up they made him they built him one just for him because it had to be so much
more encrypted than anything else you know but he was like what are you talking about I have to have a cell phone but like that hadn't even been a
thing do presidents have cell phones like did Trump and B I mean Trump had to have had an iPhone right well he
definitely has one now because he's like tweeting fromit but like but he was tweeting when he was president I'm sure he did but but also it probably has like
the most protection of anything which I think it should you know all things consider that's crazy but we also like
know all their text messages is like remember how hope hix was on the stand the other day in Trump's trial and she had texted during the Insurrection day
like we're all [ __ ] no one's ever going to hire us yeah but that's not that's not
hacking that's subpoena yeah but like but it's all there I guess is what I mean too like it's all it all exists
yeah like I was saying last time like your stuff exists forever and then if they need it the government's going to go in and find it I love that that's
what she thought in that moment yeah I know the that they're about to literally execute Mike Pence
yeah a whole thing okay so back to Ronald Reagan this is all brand new
people who were inventing the internet were like this is going to be vulnerable but no one really understood what that
meant really yet and the first report back to Ronald Reagan was from 1987 it's
called nsdd 145 and you can get it now online it is unclassified but
essentially what it says is like we need to do something about this and it outlines what they think we should do but no one did anything you know it was
like every Branch should have a people dedicated to cyber security essentially
you know they I don't think they're using the word cyber yet but you know what I mean and like information security and everyone should be paying
attention to this and it really wasn't no really did anything but they were aware that like something needed to be done I will say kudos to Ronald Reagan
for doing that because back then the internet was probably just like it's one
other guy like there's no no credit card transactions happening Y no personal
details so that's such a big one too like the money that is now available online insane um so yeah
the the summary of nsdd 145 um is it notes the quote automated the threats to
automated information processing systems and lays out objectives policies and organizational structure designed to
safeguard such systems this is is the first time someone like had thought about it and written it down so someone
needs to be in to of it in some way this is where I also wanted to bring up the book I read called The Kill chain that
basically is like the government needs a really good CRM and a really good system to be able to see what everyone is doing
inside the government because they're not doing that and that is what led to 911 of many things you know like some
people knew they were there sh people knew this they're not sharing it exactly so they need to share it um so all this
is flawed and they're not really talking to each other in the beginning there was the arpanet which was on phone lines and
we'd hacked phone lines before so you could cut that out and and turn those off but um this was something new this
is going the internet was evolving past that so the main government body that
governs data Warfare is the NSA which is the National Security Agency the NSA was started in World War II for codebreaking
it was called Mission intelligence Branch 8 so mi8 um and now it's called
the NSA and they will do things in you know different presidencies based on
like technology and what we have but this is they hadn't really thought about the internet yet until until about like the 1990s as like being a threat um the
the director of the NSA from 1992 to 1996 was named Mike McConnell he was a
vice admiral of the Navy and he went to the movies and saw the movie sneakers
have you seen that I just watched the trailer no so it is a star studded Heist film it
stars River Phoenix Sydney portier Robert Redford Dan akroy Ben Kingsley
all these big people in it and it is about the NSA hiring these guys to break
into their computers to see if they can so like that thing really did happen people would hire hackers to see if they
can get into someone's system and they always could you know so the director of the NSA sees this movie about people
breaking into the NSA and he's like well [ __ ] now something else I got to worry about and like that's when started to
worry about it but the movie came first cast it's a great cast Ben Kingsley honestly I think is a little
underrated really I I think he's well rated is he well rated yeah I don't watch award shows well I think he's
great but I I don't think anyone would say he wasn't but I don't know um
so so there's ideas ideas that come out of that there's a book called Neuromancer that they use the word cyber
for the first time so it's really like in the pop culture in the 90s in the 80s and 90s you know I'm sure like the Matrix is coming out you know um all
those movies talked about like hackers and what was the one with CRA bck where she orders the pizza that we talked
about before net the net yeah like it's all so so so new that whatever Hollywood
can Hollywood can imagine is actually stuff that can actually happen because it is kind of infinite and kind of new
so a couple other things that happened and there something that you mentioned is the Oklahoma City bombing a lot of
the radicalization of people like Timothy McVey was coming from message boards and coming from the internet so
they were seeing this like communic they had never seen before um in 1993 the
World Trade Center is bombed do you remember when that happened 1993 uh no I'm saying but you remember
that they bom the parking garage yeah yeah I just I just mentioned KSM did
that um my dad was on the phone with someone there when it happened and he
said like he heard who was talking to her about something because they worked in the Board of Trade in Chicago and they were all of a sudden like everyone
was screaming and hung up and he said it was very scary yeah I'm sure I can
imagine um so now it's '90s again all that stuff is happening the internet is
coming and Al Gore is going to say that he invented the Internet so Al Gore who
was vice president at this time in the mid 90s everyone obviously made fun of him for saying that he invented the
internet but essentially he was like the first person in Congress who was really really excited about it he crafted the
high performance Computing and communication ation Act of 1991 which gave $600 million to working on networks
for the government he invented he did the first first person to say information superhighway he said I took initiative
in creating the internet which really meant he was passing these bills and talking about it in a way that no one else was um even n Gingrich said quote
in all fairness it's something that Gore had worked on a long time Gore is not the father of the internet but in all
fairness Gore is the person who in the Congress most systematically worked to make sure that we got an internet did he
actually say I invented the Internet he said I took the initiative in creating the
internet yeah in context that's sound insane I mean I know he did yeah yeah
yeah yeah but but we all remember him saying I invented the internet and they're like no I'm pretty sure some
like MIT researchers who work in dungeons invented the
concept remember when we went to that dungeon at Jim's funeral yeah yeah I met one of the guys who have sent the first
message on the internet from UCLA so yeah it's those guys but Al Gore like he
really worked for it since like the 70s so he was someone who was like this is this is coming and I see it um so they
need to do obviously a war game on this and we talked about what a war game is last week like it's a practice of
something that could happen some people play the baddies some people play the goodies and you figure out like what could happen in these scenarios so every
year they do an eligible receiver um exercise so the pentagon's joint staff
they have this exercise every year every year it's a different war game to highlight some sort of threat or threat
on the horizon so eligible receiver 97 was held in or out of the World Trade
Center we'll never know because we can't I cannot reference what I decided that it was um but it was June 9th through
13th 1997 the NSA was divided into two teams the blue team was the NSA as they
are now equipped to retaliate to some sort of Cyber attack and the red team played North Korea Iran and Cuba they
did all sorts of stuff like DDOS attacks they changed emails that were sent to people they disrupted communication they
accessed over 36 government networks at one point they um couldn't get into to
the J2 um which is like the joint Chief's office they couldn't get into their computers so they just called the office
and asked to reset the password and they did and they were in it's exactly what happened at Robin Hood like two years
ago like yeah I mean that that's the part that I think like Hollywood caliz
is a lot of is like it's mostly just social engineering like it's not it's
not like some whiz kid who's like 50 years more advanced than everybody else that's like
hacking totally and they weren't allowed to use anything that wasn't commercially available so like imagine them just like
going to Radio Shack like and getting chance to do this again you're showing our age no I know but it's the 90s I
feel I can say that um so they nobody knew that it was going to
happen it was super super super secret the NSA Council Richard Marshall was um
suspected of Espionage because someone told on him for being in the office so much and he was like oh my God I'm here
for this top secret thing [ __ ] you which is hilarious but like no one it was that it was that secret but they really did
get into computer networks they had like a board um like a board game where they could say like where they could they
could hack the 911 system they could shut down um the electricity in in major
cities they could um they flooded the fax lines in all of the like major government agencies they got into so
many passwords and so many people's emails because they would literally go
and dumpster dive and find passwords that people had written down and thrown out and also most of the passwords were
just like password like they weren't even they weren't good so like and of course that was like also brand new so
people were just like okay whatever like I remember the first couple times I had to make a password I was like what is this you know you use your name or
something right um but so they did all this stuff and then the third thing they
did so the first thing was civilian so they were able to prove that they could have they did not but they could have like knocked out 911 lines in
electricity in major cities the second was um the military where they really did you know flood the the fax lines
turn off the phone lines send fake emails to people they did all the things that they um that they said they were
going to do and and then the third thing was they really did hijack a ship they hijacked the um the ship MV national
pride which is hilarious that the name is national pride um like using the um
like the internet and their all of their technology to
97 so they took control of a they remote control operated a ship they like yeah
they hijacked it so they like turned off all of its stuff and they left their own um calling
which was Kilroy was here so they would you know basically they they turned everything off and said Kilroy was here like they could have taken it over you
know it's wild yeah um so they also found other people in there too there
were other hackers already in there that they didn't know and so they were just kind of like they weren't doing anything
bad they were just kind of poking around there was someone from France turned out to just to be like a person who was like can I see if I can do this and they
could so if they could take over a ship in 1997
can they just like take over a plane today that's flying I'm sure you probably could I'm
sure that there's like a bunch of ways that they make it so you cannot do that but I'm I'm sure that's not
impossible that's terrifying yeah like they can get into
pretty much anything so like the government can and other people can and there's also like other nefarious people
unaffiliated with the government who are trying to get into things and then like you said last time time like everything is saved and stored they're watching
everything that you do because it is like what could possibly happen next is a real question you know like
you couldn't have imagined what happen what is happening right now like the technology that allows you and I to have
this conversation when you're in Texas and I'm in California and record it and share it with the world is mind-blowing
to 1997 you know to like who knows what's going to happen in the next 30
Years now we do sound like parents but yes yeah I mean I'm I'm not Not Afraid
yeah but I'm also I'm going to try my best yeah like I recognize that like my
job is has been for the the last decade or so to teach people how to use software and also I don't want to learn
any new software so I get it we're fine we we know as much as we need to know to
be fine for our lifetimes we don't need to know the next thing yeah totally that's that's me clutching my Blackberry
and being like I don't want to I had a pink one it was so cute but here we are um so after this
um only one person who was a technical officer in the Department of Defense in
the Pacific noticed that something was happening and unplugged the computers but he was the only one um and
it was supposed to take two weeks to see how much they could do in two weeks and they finish all directives in 4 days
they were able to just like hack everything Taylor I might have to edit this out but do you remember a time when
we were employed together where we were subject to an incredibly pervasive dos
attack where the only solution we thought was to fly a person from our
team to the storage facility that has like the computers that
version of the software was hosted on and just unplug it yep is that crazy crazy that was our
life that that that was that was like not even 10 years ago no that was not that long ago I I remember that all the
time because I remember how much apologizing I had to do that's right oh you yeah that sucks I
was in charge of apologizing publicly um and I did that a lot a lot a lot but um but yeah there's so much that you can do
like that's just one of many many things that people can do and there's so much social engineer ing now and so many things um but eligible receiver 97 was
really the first one where they were like oh [ __ ] like someone who just goes to the Radio Shack can hack into the
Department of Defense that is very very bad um and then hopefully it's gotten better but it hasn't gotten a ton better
because the killchain the book that I read about the military not talking to each other is from 2020
so they're still the systems aren't connected in in the right way um and who
knows how how safe they are and who is listening to this it's not listening to this on Wednesday you know Taylor you
know what when you mentioned the ship sorry I keep harping on that again we keep talking about how old
we're getting but I think that there's like a convergence of things that are happening which is just like life
experience historical context all that stuff mixing it together when you said
the ship thing you know what I thought of was um we were living in Los Angeles at the time and I can't remember this
guy's name but somewhere on Hollywood this like
mercedesbenz and you know where Hollywood like West Hollywood like like in West Hollywood like the lanes are
separated you know like it's it's it's it is it's densely packed and like this
Mercedes-Benz carrying this one pure at like 3:00 in the morning accelerated to
some like absurd speed like 100 miles hour on Hollywood in West Hollywood and
crashed into a tree and killed them and it was the journalist who had
reported on General Stanley mccristal talking [ __ ] about President Obama which
President Obama immediately fired this was like during the Iraq War when he was there reporting
and it was very suspicious supicious the way he
died no um and imagine like okay okay so now imagine if you are a spy and you are
in like a Tesla and they like hack into your Tesla and kill you right like
there's so many this would have been like this was I think it was 2015 or
16 I mean like cyber cyber hacking to kill you in a different way than like poisoning you you know yeah yeah yeah
but but that's that's the part that's like crazy when you said that ship because it was like a ship in 1987
our cars are so computerized like oh yeah no
absolutely I read like a an article or a thing a while ago where there was like a
a used car dealer or something where they would lease cars to folks and they would put a monitor in it and if they
hadn't paid they would turn off the car but they were doing it like while they were driving and they were like you
can't do that you know like maybe you can make it so they can't turn it on again if they're not paying for it but
you'd have to tell them that you were going to be able to do that but you can't just turn a car off on the middle of the [ __ ] freeway people are going
to die you know but they have like the physical ability to do that like I can lock my car from my phone so who knows
you know I'm on your team I'm scared now I know now I'm a little scared so just
one more thing out of eligible receiver 97 directly we started the United States
cyber command um which is us cybercom which sounds cool and that's the
department right now that is in charge as a part of the NSA in charge of trying to figure out how to keep us safe um and
then one more anecdote from the book I'm almost done with it I'll finish it and maybe I'll have more next week but um
one thing that we did over the air over the um the airwaves um of the internet
basically using the internet is in the 90s there was a um uh stuff happening in
Serbia and there was an uprising and to stop people from going out and protesting and being part of it the
United States made like most of the TV channels play Bay Watch people stay at home that's pretty awesome it was the
most popular show in the world and people wanted to watch it um but stuff like that like it's not just like your computer but like with the internet like
we're saying like the water company is all computerized you know they get shut on the water they could shut down
electricity they could shut down all of the like essential services and all of that um because now it's all on online
which is something inconceivable 30 years ago it's it's a t we just hard we just
talked about how the president of Iran's plane like or helicopter was just
downed like why do these people so it it was like when you Guinea prosan the guy
who revolted against uh Putin and then he's like fing on a plane and the plane crashs like I would assume at some point
like you just have to I mean I don't know I don't know you got to avoid you you got to avoid all people you got to
like live on a farm in the middle of nowhere and not have anyone see you and be totally self-sustainable and don't
take any deliveries and don't use any technology aren't you kind of doing that right now no I'm literally talking to
you right now over Zoom so no I just told you I can lock my brand new Subaru with my phone how do
you like the Subaru I like it it's pretty awesome nice right
uh yeah we are fast approaching a point where uh the world makes no sense to us
anymore yep yep yep maybe we'll just if we keep do this you feel old no
physically I actually don't feel old like I don't feel like super get tired quick I'm tired I've always been tired I
remember in high school I was like I'm tired you're right I wasn't doing anything you know so I feel like I can
sleep and I can move and my face looks youthful and I don't feel old do you
look forward to the quiet of nobody talking to your being around you and being alone with
your thoughts like on my day-to-day basis yes or like yes yes I'm very
rarely alone and I know that I know like like during covid I worked with a lot of
people who were like yeah you know I live alone and I talk to you all here and then turn off my computer and I just like you know watch TV or I talk to
people on the phone but I don't see other people and that was really difficult for them and then for me I was like really because always someone
yelling at me like I also have taking care of two children who were here and there's always someone here um so sometimes my
favorite time of night is like if everyone goes to sleep and I'm up by myself at like 1:00 I'll like get a drink and just like walk around the
house and be like ah that does sound nice very
nice yeah no I I've I've I've noticed as part of like getting older is when it
gets closer to like a a socially acceptable bedtime I get kind of excited
of like okay no fomo I actually go lay down and yes I was I
think about this the other day always was think about how in grad school I met this dude on the subway and we dated for
a while and but our first date he was like oh hey why don't we meet at this bar why don't we meet at 10:00 and I was
like at night like are you on drugs like what are you talking about and I was like okay so I like worked all day went
to grad school went home and like looked around the apartment for 2 hours and then went on the date so weird like this
is too late me what is wrong with you can't do that and I like sing up late but I was like I'm not going to start something at 10 o'clock at night that
makes no sense like I have been getting comedy tickets lately that start at 10: and those are rough nights those are
really really rough nights yeah I can't that that that's too late because you're not gonna get home until like one
midnight yeah well so uh we just we just segue into old people corner but um but
it's but I mean I can imagine being you know in the situation room with Ronald Reagan being like GH rean like of course
this isn't going to happen like of course we're not going to have like computers attack us haahahaha and then like oh no they can and like they can
affect things in real life it's actually huge what they can do the access that
they can have to people's lives that like we have never even never even imagined have you ever watched Fargo any
of the Fargos oh the movie or the show no I never watched the show the show is really good it has a bunch of different
seasons and they're all kind of different but in one of them there's like this they put this bug on people's
computers where like they want to see if you're going to do this thing and as soon as you do it it makes your computer
take a picture of you and send it to them so they know that you did it and it's like really scary because then they
like kill the people who did it you know yeah was an episode of Black Mirror was it oh I bet yeah Black Mirror I mean
just watch the Black Mirror Tor if you if you made all this with like AI you can see the natural
progression of it is like at scale dramatically worse than what it
is right now yeah it's kind of crazy I don't see it getting better you know and
I don't even know what better means like you were saying before like sure if the government is listening to my stuff to make sure that I'm not going to do
something terrible okay you know but also then like when does that go too far and then like I understand privacy
rights but like I it's remember like when also in our
last in places of work where gdpr was a consequence and a thing thing then you'd be like okay well if you want to be
deleted from everything and you get deleted from everything you want to get back in why why did you do this to us you know that happened all the
time yeah my mind is spinning now because I've made fun of a lot of people in my lifetime who were like really into
privacy anyways lessons were being I know I had a lot of people who were like in the beginning like very afraid of Internet like my cousins were like I
don't want anyone to know my address and I'm like dude if you think that I couldn't find your address in 4 seconds you're dumb
see that was my that was always my I'm literally think about a relative of mine who's like I don't want anything of mine
on the internet I'm like anybody in the internet can find your social security number like in yeah like do you think I
can't find you like yeah one download of onion or tour and like you're done totally and like I I met my husband in
college but whenever any of my friends are like go like I met someone I'm like okay first and last mother's made name
I'm like let me find out about them not even that even before you even talk to them just reverse image search them of
course because that image is usually the one they're most proud of which is the one that's being posted in the most
places again it'sing yeah yeah
um yep that's fun nice little positive note between
Guantanamo Bay and this things are mostly fine yeah I don't mean you listen to us for it's not things are mostly
fine with Taylor and fars so I think that our episodes are in a more positive
note mostly because again I think we're just getting to the age where we just don't give a [ __ ] anymore like it's like
it this stuff is just not that consequential to us anymore I know and I like I mean I obviously love doing this
and I just just like I don't know I feel like we're learning so much stuff and talking about stuff and the more we learn about it we're like we've always
been the same you know yeah exactly people don't change we've always been the same we do the same thing in many
different ways and we're going to keep doing that forever so buckle up I will say I am like
again it's like an old thought I am getting like more and more into reading
about like the US like military surveillance like just like the whole
the whole thing is like super fascinating when I was researching GMO it took me down so many different rabbit
holes of like all these different organizations within the federal government
that man there's a lot of depth to it but yeah like if you actually understand
this stuff you have to have been like the smartest person in the world because there's so many different agencies with sub commands and Task Force and and I
don't think there's anyone who knows it all you know it's impossible it's impossible and like and also not
designed that way so like in my story like you know the the an attorney of the NSA is told on by a CO colleague for
being in there late which is what spies do you know like during the Cold War the spies would like be the last person to
leave for lunch because they would be be taking a briefcase of documents out to lunch to be copied and they bring it
back you know so like you just you'd always be on edge as well being like or being like are they doing something that
I don't know about like what is happening and then I don't know there's so many things you can think about the
US just started testing drones underwater drones did you hear about this or like submarine drones and like I
started reading about it and I went out again another rapbit hole because it was like this is not like airplane drones
because airplane drones can get a signal immediately to them in the depths of the ocean you can't get a signal IM it is
crazy technology I just learned that you can't find a submarine so yeah you just yeah exactly yeah no that's realary so
interesting it's so wild and interesting um anyways so I guess this little
precursor foreshadowing of the topics that we're going to be discussing later we're doing fine T coming along tell
your friends yeah tell your friends tell your family uh anything else to report Taylor no I got some support from um
some folks on Instagram just about we talked about last week separated Church from state in in schools so thank you
for people who are um also agree that if you want to go to religious school go to one but if you don't go to religious
school keep it out of school yeah people like let people believe what they want to believe yeah who cares um cool um
sweet uh uh shout out our email and socials gpod gmail.com please send us an
email we are on all the socials at Doom to fail pod um and yeah follow along we
do little we'll let you know when episodes are coming up we'll share some other things that are relevant and we
also have a substack so I sent out emails like once a month with all of our episodes so you don't um lose that and
please tell your friends this is this is like episode 108 or something so we have
a lot that you can catch up on and um we're excited to to share it and we
should be famous by now the fact that we're not famous right now should be is because you have not done any marketing it's your fault wait are you talking
about me or the audience [Laughter]
you thought you were blaming the audience business business business oh my God also just everyone can cut off
right now but just also in the movie The terrible movie that I watched last night the um the imaginary friend if um there
was a scene with Bobby moan where he's literally doing like the prepping for a presentation and he's like 20% growth in
Q4 20% growth in Q4 business business business graphs business grafts business you're like has John ever been to a
meeting like what is happening was so stupid and now that's going to be 20% Q4
20% Q4 business business business files file reports actually I'm gonna catch
myself accidentally literally saying those words soon Dum anyways thank you Taylor thank
you for sharing very fun um I'll go ahead and cut off
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