Dive into the fascinating world of Tulipmania with our latest re-release! 🌷💰 Join us as we unravel the captivating tale of the 17th-century Dutch craze that swept the nation, turning simple tulip bulbs into objects of desire and economic speculation. In this intriguing episode, we explore the origins of Tulipmania, its meteoric rise as a symbol of wealth and status, and the eventual bubble burst that sent shockwaves through the Dutch economy. Hear the stories of traders, collectors, and everyday citizens caught up in the allure of the tulip, and discover the parallels between this historical event and modern economic phenomena. Whether you're a history buff, a finance aficionado, or just curious about the quirky chapters of the past, this episode promises a bloom of knowledge and entertainment. Tune in now to unravel the petals of Tulipmania and understand why this floral frenzy remains one of the most intriguing episodes in economic history! 👂 Listen, learn, and let history bloom on Doomed to Fail! Subscribe for more riveting explorations into the stories that shape our world. #Tulipmania #EconomicHistory #BotanicalObsession #PodcastDiscovery #ListenNow 🎧🌐
Dive into the fascinating world of Tulipmania with our latest re-release! 🌷💰 Join us as we unravel the captivating tale of the 17th-century Dutch craze that swept the nation, turning simple tulip bulbs into objects of desire and economic speculation.
In this intriguing episode, we explore the origins of Tulipmania, its meteoric rise as a symbol of wealth and status, and the eventual bubble burst that sent shockwaves through the Dutch economy. Hear the stories of traders, collectors, and everyday citizens caught up in the allure of the tulip, and discover the parallels between this historical event and modern economic phenomena.
Whether you're a history buff, a finance aficionado, or just curious about the quirky chapters of the past, this episode promises a bloom of knowledge and entertainment. Tune in now to unravel the petals of Tulipmania and understand why this floral frenzy remains one of the most intriguing episodes in economic history!
👂 Listen, learn, and let history bloom on Doomed to Fail! Subscribe for more riveting explorations into the stories that shape our world.
#Tulipmania #EconomicHistory #BotanicalObsession #PodcastDiscovery #ListenNow 🎧🌐
Doc - The Tulip Bubble
Book - Tulipomania
Book - Memoirs of Extraordinary Popular Delusions: The Madness of Crowds
Hi Friends! Our transcripts aren't perfect, but I wanted to make sure you had something - if you'd like an edited transcript, I'd be happy to prioritize one for you - please email doomedtofailpod@gmail.com - Thanks! - Taylor
hi friends Taylor from Doom to fail
today we will be relasing episode 11
part one on tulip media it was the time
in the Netherlands in the 1600s when
people just went like out of their minds
for tulips and it wasn't even like the
real flower it was the bulb and the
promise of the flower that it might
deliver and the value of that flower in
the future so super interesting people
lost their homes they lost all of their
money on this like tulip bubble that
happened um and burst pretty quickly so
um hope you enjoy if you have any
questions any ideas if you like us
please tell Apple podcasts and we are at
doomed toil gmail.com and doomed to fail
at all the socials enjoy this re-release
in a matter of the people of the State
of California versus orthal James
Simpson case number ba09 and so my
fellow
Americans ask not what your country can
do for you ask what you can do for your
country
okay so we're recording and I don't
remember actually let's do the intro
first
okay what do I say yeah welcome to Doom
to fail that's right welcome to Doom to
fail I'm fars join here with my co-host
Taylor and every week we ring you a true
crime and a historical story about
relationships so we're doomed to fail
Taylor how you doing today I'm good I
told you a second ago I'm on kind of on
vacation I'm in a gorgeous like Mansion
Airbnb in Tula California it's raining
but it's a a beautiful house so it's fun
I just made breakfast for a bunch of
people and came up here did you rent the
whole house yeah nice that's way we have
well I mean there's we used to be just
adults and now we're six adults and six
kids so there's a lot going on it is a
full house thanks for the time to
actually do this and record today you
got it here in Austin it is South by
South by Southwest starts now um and so
I'm doing everything in my power to
avoid downtown and anything native good
job yeah I would assume that's typical
or standard so I don't remember who goes
first this week I think I do you go
first okay do you have a drink in mind I
do do you want to do yours first and
then I'll go into mine I'm gonna my
drink right now because I totally forgot
to come up with the drink okay I'll tell
you mine okay um mine is a Heineken
which is a beer from Holland do you
remember did you watch Madmen no I did
not oh there's like a thing in a Madmen
where the Don Draper is like obviously
an advertising guy and they do this
thing where they are trying to get
people to buy hakin and so they put it
in like grocery stores and they make the
end cap like you know the end of the
display like a big um like a windmill
and stuff to be like oh it's from
Holland and then he has all of his like
work friends over and his wife is like
oh I got this beer it's called hakin
it's from Holland and all of the
advertising guys are like yeah like we
got her like it worked and then she was
really pissed cuz she was like you set
me up to find this beer in the store and
like fall for your ad anyway I'm going
toover are we recovering mad Ben today
no but I but I always think about that
someone will know you know if you know
you know if you know you
know awesome uh I so I didn't think of a
drink but I think given the location of
my story it needs to be coffee
and also drinking coffee right now yeah
I was drinking coffee too and it's it's
morning here so it makes sense it all
tracks and sorry you said you're the one
who goes first this week yeah okay all
right so the other day when you this is
I have like 17 tangents but when you did
the toolbox Killers you were like oh
maybe I'm going to do friends not just
romantic relationships and I was like
that's a great idea cuz I don't think I
can sustain this for like years with
just like romantic relationships of
History you know and I'm like trying to
find ones and like my cousin just sent
me one and all these things but also
thinking like what about like other
things that were failures like other
like crazy times in history that maybe
don't have like specific people involved
but they were like a crazy thing so
that's kind of what I'm going into today
I
also was like so here's a a little bit
of backstory Once Upon a Time in 2016 I
was looking at my Kindle and I found
this book that I don't remember how it
got there like I don't remember
downloading it but it is called I'm
going to make my SC it's called um
extraordinary popular delusions and The
Madness of crowds and it was written in
1841 by a Scottish journalist named
Charles
McKay and it's like stories of people
who are like kind of like doing crazy
things and like more people are doing it
together and so like I don't know how I
got it on my my Kindle but I think that
I probably downloaded it when I cuz it
was 2016 so I was like mad that people
were like falling for Donald Trump and I
was like what is wrong with people you
know that's how I think I got it if that
makes sense the the through line is
there I understand that um did you have
a big cow skull on your wall now is that
new so I had it in my other I had it up
screenshot this at the other house and I
it was actually sitting on the ground
here since I moved into this house and I
finally decided to put it up it's very
Texas I like it I did a screenshot wait
smile I'm going to do another one keep
listen perfect it's just you okay I just
saw it looks great so so this this is
this is like what I'm thinking about
this book is about so this book is
divided into three parts there's
National delusions which are like rumors
myths and legends like the Crusades is
like one of the examples in that one
then there's peculiar Folly it's like
Alchemists and spiritualists there's a
chapter called called haunted houses
about like people falling for like
sances and things like that that we
talked about before um and there's
another chapter on philosophical
delusions like people who think the
world is flat which has like always been
a problem which is hilarious so a lot of
the stuff that like we'll talk about
today is stuff that we see constantly
like even now so this so sorry so this
book is basically just a discussion of
different variations of delusions and
where they origin okay okay that sounds
awesome that sounds really interesting
yeah it's really fun so it's it's a
delight So today we're going to talk
about tulips the flower and specifically
tulip Mania in Holland in 1636 and 1637
have you heard about this no okay great
so it's like a whole it's a it's a fun
thing I was like I want to do something
really easy this week because I'm going
on vacation and then all of a sudden I'm
like learning about botney and economics
but whatever so here we are so I I
watched a documentary called the tulet
bubble I read a book book called Tula
Bania like another book about it book is
very dry there's a lot of like numbers
and we'll talk a little bit about
conversion but they use gilders is like
their their money that they're using at
this time so there I have um you know a
list of kind of like some conversions
that we'll talk about in a little bit so
can you picture a tulip what is a tulip
it's probably the most generic looking
flower outside of a rose right that's
fair like a bulb on top of a stem it
actually that like it comes from like
kind of like the seed looks like an
onion so it's like a big bulb you plant
it and then the flower grows out of it
and the flower itself only lasts for a
few months and then you like cultivate
the bulb and you do it again right now
80% of the world's tulips come from the
Netherlands and um the actual flower is
grown in these like really beautiful
tulip fields or there's like lines of
different color tulips it's really nice
and then um but really they want the
bulbs so the bulbs they can like send
all over the world and it's like mother
and daughter bulbs where some of them
will grow new flowers some of them won't
whatever there's like ways to put things
together to make a toolup so we're in
Holland in the 1600s and the economy is
booming like more than other parts of
Europe because there have just been a
bunch of Wars over there but in Holland
everything has they kind of avoided
those Wars so they're not ruled by a
royal a royalty they're ruled by citizen
councils which gives people a lot of
autonomy and like the ability to like
move up in
society and this creates a middle class
for the first time ever so for the first
time ever people have money and they
don't have like a way to invest it
because there isn't like a really like
solid banking system there isn't really
a solid stock market you can't really
get in unless you are like uber rich but
the middle class are looking for ways to
like invest their money and this story
is like you could just plop it over
any time period and find a story that's
like very similar to this of just like
people trying to get rich quick you know
yeah it it actually reminds me of the LA
most recent last podcast episode of the
Essex about how that's how you invested
you just bought into a whaling ship and
that was the stock market back then yeah
exactly exactly you could like buy a
boat or like you know buy more land but
you didn't like weren't able to like
like put your do like money things just
with just money exactly so there's also
the Dutch East India Company trading and
making the country really rich they also
are enslavers or enslaving a lot of
people but they're getting a lot of
money from that um there's also like
some of the best painters coming from
this time like the girl with the pearl
earring that vermier that I'm sure
you've seen and REM brand it's like a
golden age of like art and things and so
people started to think like as I got
more money like what can I do to like
both like glorify God and show you know
that I have all this money so they
started building Gardens and they you
know didn't want to like cover
themselves in Gold so they would build
these really big Gardens so sorry so
that was the way to reflect that you
were wealthy yeah okay yeah yeah so to
do a little bit of conversion and I'll
come back to this like if I was going to
buy I guess this is a hilarious I have a
hilarious table but eight fat pigs are
240 guilters four fat oxin are 480
gilders so like and you could buy a ship
for 500 gilders so like this is like how
much think start thinking about that
money conversion I'll come back to that
but like okay you said ship last okay so
that's 500 gilders how much was a what
was the other one eight fat pigs or 240
gilders wow a ship's kind of a bargain
then it is kind of a bargain okay I
don't know what kind a silver drinking
cup is 60 gilders so people start so
that's like as people are paying for
things so that's Holland that's where we
are at this time period people are
starting to have more money for the
first time and that's where the Tulip
starts to kind of be introduced into
popular popular culture tulips actually
come from Central Asia and Persia kazak
Kazakhstan has a lot of the Native
tulips in nature they're shorter and
they're really good in like Colder
Weather so they work in places that like
um like high up in the mountains and
they don't need a lot of like sunlight
right now it's also a time it's like a
Renaissance time so people are starting
to get interested in science you they're
like dissecting bodies for the first
time and you know doing that like in
public and like learning more about
anatomy and learning about botney really
for the first time they haven't really
made it a science yet and I say first
time like in this time period I'm sure
that like ancient people thought about
bot in different ways and people don't
know but in this period so there's a
botanist named Carlos clusius car
carolus clusius Carol us clusius and
he's like one of the first people to be
a Bist and to bring the tool up into
into the Netherlands he's never makes a
lot of money but his friends like take
care of him and he ends up getting a job
with the University of lighten and
starting this first like botney school
and he started breeding them and to
breed them I think you have to move the
pollen of one to another one and then
like like a male and a female but like
put their pollen together in a way that
you it's like unexpected and that can
make like a different color toet I think
that sounded very scientific doesn't it
sound scientific I in the I watched
someone had a Q-tip of pollen and was
like putting it on like the stem the
steam it's I don't know anyway he was
started breeding them which made
different colors of tulips for the first
time you know they were like really
pretty and they have like cool stripes
and stuff so right the the twips during
the Tulip Cays that everybody wanted
were white with these like really dark
red stripes going up them and I'll share
pictures of them like they're really
beautiful but it's actually a virus that
makes them that color but they just
didn't know anything about viruses I
actually thought the tobs were always
one color I didn't know that you could
get I'm going to look up pictur of
tulips now yeah it's like a red and
white striped one this is the silent
portion of the
podcast the visual portion wow those are
really cool looking they look like
marbles almost yeah they're really
pretty but it's a it's a virus that
makes them that color so it's hard to
predict and tulip bulbs all look like
onions so it's hard to really tell
what's going to happen when you have the
bulb and what kind of flower it's going
to actually turn into see this is why
can't get into gardening because I I
don't have the patience for this like
you you you get the bulbs you plant them
you wait months and months for them to
actually grow into the thing then you
can cross-pollinate them and you don't
know what you're doing and maybe
actually hold on wait wait a minute like
so if you cross-pollinate okay so so
hold on so like there is no there's
no there's no eggs so like what do you
get
no okay exactly so that's a good
question good question so what you get
is after the flower dies you dig up the
root and the root is a new bulb so that
bulb you can continue to like plant but
if you put like the new pollen in it it
will change like the anatomy of that
bulb I have no idea does that sound like
that could be true I feel like I don't
know I mean if you say anything with
confidence it's people are going to
believe you but like I mean that sounds
like so hold on so okay so you do this
weird plant Seck thing and then in
theory that generates this bulb that
only is produced after the death of the
female flower okay yes yes it's sort of
like if you were it's sort it is sort of
like an onion if it had a flower at the
top of it you know like you have like
you like concept yeah yeah that that
concept I'm familiar with it's just like
it's just it never dawned on me like
what is the actual
reproductive component of all this well
so yeah okay that I guess yeah you get a
bulb cool yeah yeah so some people were
trying to like make their tulips
different colors they didn't understand
really how it happen so they would like
dissect them and try to splice the bulbs
together they would soak them in red
wine you know like trying to figure out
how to do it all good ideas but it ended
up being just kind of super
unpredictable because it's they're
pretty and they're rare they start to
get more expensive you know like
anything and there's some fun stories
about like and they may or may not be
true but of like someone going to
someone's house and like seeing a tulip
bulb and thinking it's an onion and
eating it and then like the guy's like
that was so expensive and then like you
know someone else like dissecting it cuz
they're like what is this interesting
onion and then the person being like I
can't believe you would do this like
sending them to jail like people really
freaking out about it lot of Cramer
esque Antics that were going on with
bulbs
exactly so then this is where it starts
to get like in like economics so in this
this time there's also a lot of like
gambling happening in pubs I don't know
like always and they they describe these
pubs and in the documentary that I
watched they do a great like reenactment
of the pub because you can imagine
people like the men have like those big
big frilly collars you know that like go
out like six inches like around their
around their necks and like you know big
like fun outfits on and everyone um
smokes constantly and they think like
it's also like there's like the plague
times during this time so they think
that smoking will keep you healthy from
that and they smoke in these like really
cool long like I'm show you like a long
white pipe so you're in this Pub there a
lot of gambling everyone's a little bit
drunk everyone's smoking you can't
really see across the room cuz it's full
of smoke also like from like the
fireplaces and everything people start
to trade tulip bulbs in these pubs like
in the back rooms and so they weighed
them like you would weigh gold and they
used like the measurement for weighing
gold and Ace to weigh the tulip bulbs
and I don't even know if the weight of
the tulip bulb has any effect on the
flower itself but that's like how they
were selling them yeah I mean I guess it
makes sense you break anything down into
like that's how you the unit of
measurement like it's the weight how
much is a weight it's that this much
cavar this much gold yeah exactly so
they did a they had obviously since you
know was long time ago they had like
chalkboards everybody would have like a
little chalkboard and the person selling
the tulet bulb would put down what they
would accept as has a bid and give it to
like the guy in charge then the guy in
charge would collect little chalkboards
from every person and every person's bid
would be on there and then he would find
like the bid that made the mo most sense
show it to the seller and the seller
would either agree or disagree and then
that was how it would get sold so people
were just kind of following along you
could trade and sell the same bulb like
several times in a night you know just
like have like the the value kept
increasing because people were willing
to buy it and it started to turn into
something like an NST cuz it didn't
exist like you would be trading a bulb
that didn't for a flower that doesn't
exist so the Tulip isn't really the
thing anymore people don't really care
about the flower they care about the
value of the bulb some of the like
really pretty ones and like most famous
ones may never have even existed because
they had like these beautiful books that
they would get and see all these
paintings of these different tulips but
no one had ever like seen it and you
couldn't guarantee anything anyway but
they would be like oh this bulb is going
to be this beautiful to up and just like
that value was based on that assumption
that may or may not have been true but
it didn't really matter Ian were these
things getting planted not even really
because this happens like happened in
like a year and it takes a year for this
whole thing to happen anyway so what it
turned into is a Futures market and now
I'm like oh God and I'm trading on
Futures like oh my God this is smidge
over my head but I need to call my dad
cuz he used to be a Commodities broker
in Chicago so he would totally
understand this the fact the fact that
you just called out like nfts like the
hair just stood on the back of my neck I
know trading in Futures is buying
something is having the right to buy
something at a certain time in the
future at a certain price now you have
ownership of something that doesn't
exist yet but you're saying when it
exists I'm going to pay this much money
so you can make a lot of money if you
say like I'm going to pay for you know
$300 for this in six months and if in
six months it's worth $600 you just made
$300 so there's like a but is a Gamble
so they're trading it again and again
and again before the tulip bulb even
exists sometimes it hasn't even come out
of the ground yet and they're saying
like I own this tulip bulb and they have
this little piece of paper and they're
trading it back and forth so you're able
to like agree that the price is going to
be this much in the future so people
just kept trading and trading and it
gave people the ability to make a lot of
money really quickly makes sense does
that make sense and as you know everyone
loves a get-rich quick scheme so
everyone started to get involved in it
so a ton of of people like sold their
houses sold all their stuff to get into
this toilet market with the assumption
that it would never go down so Taylor
one thing I'm confused of was this
literally the only access point for
Building Wealth at the time it was it
wasn't like the only one but and like
this only this is this whole thing only
happens over a few months so I think it
was like a exciting quick one that was
like on the news not on the news
obviously but like people were talking
about it to yeah this was this was the
GameStop of their generation exactly you
can you can put it over so many things
that are happening today and be like oh
that was valued at this and I was valued
at nothing you know yeah okay so people
were buying them at 10% of the future
price so if I pay $10 for a future price
of $90 I sell it for $200 you know I
made $100 all those things so at the
height of the craze some tulet bulbs
were selling for more than 10 times the
annual income of a skilled Craftsman
that's like you know how I said like a
boat was like 500 gilders they would
sell for like 10,000 gilders for a toet
bat that like didn't exist with the
assumption that the price would continue
to go up I know that hindsight is 2020
this is really stupid though I know but
it's just the stock market it's just
like the same thing you like assume
Something's Gonna Have value and
continue to go up no it's not like that
because the the the thing that you are
investing in can generate money this is
a bull for a tulup that can't generate
anything but a singular tulup but they
assume that the value of that tulup is
going to go up and up
but no one ever gets the toolip well
well okay so like maybe if the theory
was I'm gonna I'm gonna sell I'm gonna
if this is the market I can get a second
mortgage on my house buy two really
pretty I assume tulips that'll generate
a very pretty but then you paid for the
two tulips any whatever I'm I'm not
going to no got no one never really got
a t up it was all just speculation it
because it was all like you know I
assumed that this CH was going to keep
Rising so people keep buying it and then
assuming that some they'll always have a
buyer so so no okay I people people do
crazy [ __ ] okay we'll just leave it to
that okay there's a story of um a man
named woer Winkle who who died and left
his children a bunch of toilet bulbs
like actual toilet bulbs that sold to to
go into the market and his kids made
90,000 gilders which is like money to be
billionaires they were like the richest
people in in town and then at the height
of the of the tulet Mania people are you
know selling their things putting all
their money into tulips assuming that
that this will never ever go down people
just stop bidding on them and as soon as
the prices stop going up people freak
out and sell them and that is a bubble
so it's just like the housing bubble
just like the tech bubble it's you know
valued and valued and valued until it's
not and then everybody Panic sells and
so people are ruined because they lost
all of their money and they cannot sell
these tulip bulbs to anyone and they
can't get their money back because they
had done that like promise the person
they bought it from this feels like when
I bought Tesla stock like literally
right before Elon Musk put a bti out on
Twitter and when we all realized that he
lost his mind I was like oh no this is
awful everything just
tanked exactly
exactly um so on February 24th
1637 um the Dutch florist Guild because
also like the government wasn't really
involved in this it was like people in
like back rooms of pubs and like
florists and things they made they had
to enter they had to inter intercede and
save some people because basically they
had to do bail bailouts because people
were like lost all their money so they
made some rules that like contracts
after a certain time were null and void
you get a certain percentage back and
get like a certain percentage of the of
the contract price back but other than
that like people sort of moved on after
it but it was like one of the it's like
a documented time of people kind of
going crazy over a thing learning about
trading learning about Futures trying to
figure out like how they can make the
most money with the assumption that
things will never ever stop being
expensive and then that bubble bursting
and people's lives being ruined in like
a very short period of time yeah it
makes sense Taylor did you do this
because of Silicon Valley Bank no I just
that happened yesterday but that's weird
timing it's still happening I know no
totally like having a run on the bank is
the same as having like SE people stop
bidding on tulips it's um yeah it's I
think it's I mean I'm I'm terrible at
economics um I've taken a lot of
Economics classes and like it's hard for
me to wrap my head around it but like
when you see things like this you're
like oh this is the same thing that has
happened forever um whether it's like
now with my you know virtual money in a
bank or then with all my like little
piece the paper saying I own tulips that
don't exist yet you know what I also did
this with Bitcoin I also bought Bitcoin
at the highest I literally only buy high
in Solo that's the only way opposite of
what you're supposed to do I know I know
I'm not good at it yeah that's really
cool so question why was it tulips and
not like roses or whatever good question
I think it was just because they were um
like new and they were like rare because
they take a while to cultivate they take
that like full year cycle so you can be
like oh I have it for you know a little
bit of time and then um you have to like
take the bulb out take good care of it
over the winter and then like replant it
in the spring so I think it was just
because they have like that like long
life cycle and you know they were new
and they were getting these like
beautiful varieties because of a virus
like that they couldn't control they
didn't really understand it but still
they were like seeing that so I think
that was part of it it was you know kind
of a like exciting new thing yeah cuz
already had roses so it wasn't it wasn't
cool you the other weird syn
synchronicity here Taylor is after I
finish or we finish recording this I'm
going to go to Home Depot and buy a
bunch of plants because I realized I
need to like start taking care of like
the garden space near the house nice
well now is the time to buy tulip
because they're also a very Easter
flower um so you'll have them out for
Easter and then also
nowadays because of like science and
technology and everything like you don't
have to wait that long you can buy
tulips anytime you know like they've
like modified them to be able to like
you know grow at different times and and
they're a lot more like you know you can
use them a lot differently than it
wasn't like back then where you had to
like really have to wait so in in this
case is there a doom to fail premise or
were we just completely abandoning that
the red flag part of this no I I am I no
I think I think it's a it's a group
failure you know that's what I that's
what I think it really is because I
think well like the the the book The me
the Memoirs of extraordinary popular
delusions it's like people you know
together making a decision to do
something that is you know in hindsight
kind of crazy you know that so would
this be a classification of folly Ado ad
do no ad do no because it's it's more
than just two people like f do is like
if like you and I are like locked in a
house together and I convinced you that
someone was trying to kill us so we kill
each other like that's F Ado but it's
it's a it's like a group delusion you
know where people are like I have all
this stuff like I I have all this you
know these pieces of paper that say on
this say that's going to increase in
value and then you're like oh my God I
want it I'll pay you more and then I pay
it to you and like people just kept
doing it assuming that like the price
would always go up so I think it's a
it's a failure it's a group failure and
I think it's one of those things that
afterwards they were like embarrassed
yeah they were like oh we went to little
nuts with the Tulip thing and then
they're like some people have like lost
a lot of stuff some people lost a lot of
money but they were already rich so they
were like me but also like with the
GameStop thing then like the poorer
people the people who have the least
amount of money do have the most to lose
because they are you know investing in
something at like with more money than
they might have you know did you watch
the gamestock documentary on Netflix no
I didn't these people made so much money
they made so they made like retirement
like 20 year olds were making like
retirement money what I forgot one guy
put like 50k in or something and cash
out 8 million it was unbelievable
there's yeah and that's the people who
cashed out get it and then some people
didn't and lost everything right yeah
yeah so cool well thanks for sharing
that Taylor I'm GNA look at tools when I
go to Home Depot and I'm probably G to
plant them because I'm lazy and I just
need something that's going to keep
coming back year-over year and TOS don't
sound like they're come back year over
year no I really don't I that I feel
like that's too much the idea of like
having to plant the same flower every
year because it doesn't come back that
feels exhausting yeah Miracles but so
okay well I'll make the transition over
to the ever shifting premise of the show
which