There's a lot to be said about the 1970s heavy hitters - your Bundys, Kempers, etc. It was a dangerous time to be a young woman in America. Mostly because it was a time when you just got in cars with strangers (pre-uber, where we're getting in cars with strangers again). John Norman Collins terrorized Michigan's College Women for years. It's the little-known story of small town murder.
There's a lot to be said about the 1970s heavy hitters - your Bundys, Kempers, etc. It was a dangerous time to be a young woman in America. Mostly because it was a time when you just got in cars with strangers (pre-uber, where we're getting in cars with strangers again). John Norman Collins terrorized Michigan's College Women for years. It's the little-known story of small town murder.
Hi Friends! Our transcripts aren't perfect, but I wanted to make sure you had something - if you'd like an edited transcript, I'd be happy to prioritize one for you - please email doomedtofailpod@gmail.com - Thanks! - Taylor
[Music] in a matter of the people of State of California versus orthal James Simpson case number ba09 and so my fellow
Americans ask not what your country can do for you ask what you can do for your
sweet okay we are back and we are doomed to fail not literally only figuratively
because our name is doomed to fail but we are doom to succeed not doomed destined
Taylor perfect perfect so far no notes uh I'm Forest joined here by
Taylor this week we heard all about the Opium War from Taylor Wars plural uh and
this week I'm going to be covering a topic of my own I'm going to be going back Taylor towards the True Crime side
of things I will say that the more I've covered true crime and the more I
investigate True Crime the more Ty it is to just talk about how
someone gets gutted and killed and murdered and thrown into a ditch like it's just like that's the interesting part so I found a case where the
interesting part is really how they got caught and so I'm gonna cover a Michigan
killer and I was a Michigan I was a Michigan for Memorial Day oh yeah and it was Taylor I man I I don't maybe I'm
just like a softy like this but being out there I was like this place is so
gorgeous I don't get all live there and I the weather it's partti yeah so
apparently they've had a lot milder Winters the past couple of oh Winters um
God bless global warming apparently it worked out for them but I hung out with our old former colleague um Brian Palmer
if you remember him oh yeah he lives in Detroit yeah he lives in Detroit and we landed in Detroit and I was asking I was
like this place is incredible it's so beautiful it's so Lush it's like weirdly
affordable for how pretty it is and he was like yeah it's like the best kept
secret it's like everybody thinks this place sucks and it's too cold to inhabit and all that and like we kind of want it
that way because it keeps everything normal and affordable and I was like I get it like I would totally I mean we also used to work with Michigan's PR
person true someone whose job it is people into yeah yeah a good point
actually I think she's a chief Strat officer now or something um anyways who
knows so uh so anyways I was there and I was having some conversations with folks and I learned about about a local
Boogeyman in Michigan who preds like some fan favorites proceedes Ted Bundy
proceedes John Wayne gasy a particularly brutal guy which at the end of this
conversation I would love to get your perspective on why this guy isn't famous because he is brutal ruthless like maybe
it's much yeah yeah maybe too much maybe too much but I don't know he he you'll
see he's going to be like a very Ted Bundy s kind of a kind of a character but I'm going to be covering a guy named
who I I would bet any amount of money you have not heard of John Norman
Collins maybe not you haven't heard of him I knew a man named John Collins and
his parents were from Ireland and he wanted to get dual Irish citizenship and Order to get it he had to go find a
police officer or a Catholic priest to sign his papers and we laughed for like seven days because that was the most
Irish requirement in the whole world but sorry you don't know a serial
killer by that name do you no great great so I don't have to pay you but um
so I already named the guy so let's just backfill the story by starting with his life like who he is roughly and then get
into what ended up happening and then get into the most interesting part which like him getting caught
so this guy John I'm just going to call him John uh he was born on June 17th
1947 in Windor Ontario um for the non- geography Buffs
that is in Canada thank you uh his father abandoned the family when John
was a baby when he was first born and the mother went on to have a series of horrible horrible relationships she
getting married to about three different men and they were all increasingly worse than the last I get think the last one
was an abusive Al alcoholic who beat the [ __ ] out of JN and the mom so not great
not great but also this was like raising a child in the 40s and 50s in
Michigan if you yeah didn't wait how they get to Michigan that I don't know I think the
mom is from there and somehow they were in Ontario Canada and that's when or WIS Ontario when she gave birth but my point
was like if you're raising a kid in Michigan like is it just like being an alcoholic who
beats them kind of normal like isn't that like how you're supposed to raise a kid in the 1950s like
yeah yeah yeah I mean unfortunately I feel like that is a big part of I mean
it made it made a lot of strong strong men maybe we should be beating our
children more often parents if you have a child and you aren't beating them can you write to us let us know why um I can
I can tell you I don't beat my children continue nice cover um I'm kidding
obviously so okay so the type of person John was so I hate to like describe it
this way and I know you're going to hate it too he was just like a normal guy growing up in Michigan he was
an honor roll student he played baseball he lettered in football he dated a ton
he was super popular and ultimately he
would end up attending a university called Eastern Michigan or a degree in education with his ultimate goal being
an elementary school teacher which goes to show why he should never trust anybody don't love that gu's like an
absolute horrific monster and he's going to teach children so he started
exhibiting antisocial Behavior around this time so it would have been somewhere around his like sophomore year
where again he was really popular with women and he would go out with a lot of girls and a lot of them would later on
report how he was really antisocial and awkward and aggressive in ways that were um unusual
for some reason which I could not I mean I Googled enough to where
there's definitely some sort of a tracker on my search history but he was
obsessed with like not wanting women to be menstruating around him he thought he
could tell he would ask there was stories of him literally asking someone are you on
your per and then when they would reply affirmatively him losing it on them like
yeah weird again like I keep saying weirdly antisocial Behavior but like that's really weirdly antisocial
Behavior I think that's like it's like maybe okay if you're like 13 you know and you like don't know what it is and
you're just like being a boy you're being dumb you know right or whatever but like it's not okay when you're a grown man even in the in the 40s and you're
you're getting an education degree to teach other brains like how to grow up so
um it was around this time when John would be around 20 in in his sophomore
junior year of college that a string of murders started happening in a city I'm
G to call it's ipsilanti nobody knows I I don't think anybody knows where ipant is it's an arbor like it's like in and
around an arbor like University of Michigan it's like that whole area it's technically a 15 mile radius it's a county that encompasses ipsan and ant
Arbor but like just picture that okay also in in Ann Arbor last weekend and
Taylor it is so beautiful like you got to go you got to visit I've been to
Northern Michigan I've been to ma Island and then also Michigan is so confusing
like where it is and why it's on Eastern time and like all the map things like I work with someone who lives in in Ohio
but she lives like an hour from Detroit and I'm like none of this makes any sense like I don't understand is part of America yeah now part of Michigan is
like attached to Wisconsin and then also it's just like so much more north than parts of Canada
yeah yeah it's it is a it is a it's weird but there is a um a
sandwich shop there Z Zinger zingerman I think if it was called it is phenomenal
it's like a Jewish deli in the center of an arbor and it's like a like a city
block of just like this Deli but then like there's like the deli also has like a separate ice cream parlor it's just so
fun you'll have a great time you can literally just go to an arbor and go visit this one Deli you should have gone to the Gerald Ford Presidential
Library so what I was going to do was go to the Henry Ford library and I was like
if I do this and I tell Taylor she's going to ambass me for doing it that's true no that's where you can learn how
to drive the Model T you can't learn to drive it anywhere else damn it I saw an old Ford at a a
fair like a County Fair we had last week at in town and I was like looking at the pedals cuz remember I looked up how to
drive a metal team you can go to one of those places in Michigan but you have to exactly you do the cranking there's like
a lot of I don't know how to drive a stick so it's like a stick times 10 because there like way more gears that you have to
do but is it really I gota I got to resarch that that's really interesting it's like something else like it's it's
like extra it's extra steps yeah yeah they probably didn't have like real TR how how are we talking about this my serial color prodct yes let let me get
back to this okay well I'm gonna say wa next time you go you should do that and drive the metal te everybody
you heard from Taylor uh super fun okay so we're talking about this area an
arbor is where we're talking about so I'm going to start getting into the murders and again the murders they are
what they are like it's tragic it's awful whatever but I'm not going to go into too much detail because like who gives a [ __ ] like it's it's the exact
same thing story over and over again so on August 7th 1967 uh a naked body
was found on a patch of land near Eastern Michigan and identified using dental records to be a woman who is a
19-year-old named Mary theres blar who was a student at Eastern Michigan as
well uh she was brutalized obviously her feet were cut off as were some of her fingers and she had about 30 Saab
wounds it was bad it was a really bad murderer yeah like it was really grotesque like it was it was like one of
those murders where like this guy just wanted to do the killing part you know they do like a product versus like process killer and some want the body
because they they crave the body and some crave that kill this feels like a I want the kill kind of guy than so
something I found that was kind of sad there's like a modern looking website
that's being maintained in honor of Mary's life she died in ' 67 you can
find it it's Mary flor.com it's so it's Mary M a r y f
l s z.com and if you go to it it looks kind
like a it's like a modern looking site it's like a weird geoc City thing I mean
it doesn't look like a 500,000 on website or anything but it it looks like somebody like recently has updated it
and maintained it and like updated the fonts and all that stuff and it just like includes things that she liked to
do when she was a kid and it includes her favorite hobbies and pictures of her when she was a kid and pictures of her
family now saying like I didn't know any of you and y'all never knew me but I think we would have loved each other
like it's it's like a really it's really sad I've never seen like a family D no this is really sad it's like 60 years
ago I know but like yeah so she has on
her website a quote that goes uh the future belongs to those who believe in
the beauty of their dreams do you know who that quote is
anelt yes yes she said that was her favorite quote was this one quote from
elen Roosevelt and I thought you'd like that I do love that a poor thing yeah really sad really really sad so uh
moving on uh to murder number two it was about a year later where another body was found this time it was that of a
woman named Joan elith Gale Shale s are very middle
middle of middle of the US names are are hard I know I know they're really thick they're really thick um she was 20 years
old she'd also been stabbed um to death and for several reasons it looked like her body had been moved basically the
last time anybody saw her it was her roommate and the roommate accompanied
Joanne to a bus stop to catch a bus to ant Arbor to stay with her boyfriend for
the weekend she had apparently missed the bus and a group of three men rolled
up to her and she accepted the ride and that's the last time anybody saw
her tell there's going to be like audience and Taylor there's going to be some bounce around here
because I'm taking things a little bit out of chronological order because it'll
actually make sense more in the totality of the whole conversation we're having but I'm going to leave it leave it that
as far as like the experience of her getting picked up by men I promise I'm not going to leave it at that I'm going to come back to that here in a minute or
like in 20 that that there were three of them yes okay it's going to become relevant so regarding her body when she
was found so her top half was way more decomposed than her bottom half indicating that perhaps her bottom half
was somewhere colder after death than her upper body was and also there was no
blood underneath the body when she was discovered and a thing that I L didn't uh set forth in the previous murder was
that kind of the same thing happened to her a little bit different it wasn't it didn't have to do with decomposition of
the blood thing but it did have to do with the fact that she'd been moved around like it was obvious she been moved a bunch so at this point it was
becoming clear like some was doing something to these women and then like taking them from one place to another which is like pretty important to know
so right but that makes me feel like they like the process and the
product I don't know the violence is just so violent like what do you what do you do with a body that's been like its
hands I mean I don't know there's a lot of gross people think must feed is harder than not like not like like doing something like sexually but like they
like having it around you knowbe or like like they have done it cuz I don't know it's it's much hard harder to get rid of
a body than you would imagine because all these people have trouble getting rid of bodies and people find them and
all the things true that is true that is I have heard that like the hardest part
of like committing a murder isn't the killing part is to getting rid of the body part
yeah so one thing to remind you of Taylor this was all happening in 1968 do
you know why that's relevant could you guess why that's relevant to this conversation Vietnam no it said we
didn't know a serial killer was like serial killing wasn't a thing there was no like let's create these directories
of all these different murders then tie them together so that different police can talk to different police like none of that existed the the
1970s we're in the 1960s right now it wasn't until the 1970s till the like
quote unquote careers I guess of Ted Bundy and John Wayne gase even started which were like the
archetypical serial killer so like this wasn't really a thing yet so
M you're flying really blind if you're the police here no
totally so murder number three about eight months later after the pre after murder number
two the body of a University of Michigan law student who was named Jane Lise mixer was found having been shot in the
head there was no signs of sexual assault the other two did have signs of sexual assault which I left off before
um but it was still weird enough to find a decomposing body within mouths of all these other recently
found bodies and so they connected the dots on that and then a few days after
Jane's body was found another decomposing body that was also new as found a few miles away that was a
16-year-old girl named Marilyn Skelton and her cause of death was blunt force
trauma which resulted in multiple skull fractures it was a brutal way to die moving on to number five and six
less than a month after Mary ly body was found the body of a 13-year-old girl was
found Don Louise bosom uh she was found on the side of a road and she had stab
WBS and strangulation marks on her neck during the investigation of Dawn's murder police investigate a bing
Farmhouse about 100 yards from where her body was found and discovered evidence that this was probably where she had
been murdered again now we have two murders for sure at the very beginning
that we knew weren't committed at the spot where the body was found now we have murder number five where we know
for sure that there was a murder that happened in a farmhouse outside of where
this body was draged too so it's also just like so much about the Midwest you know was always like someone from
Wisconsin whatever and I keep trying to get people to buy me Wisconsin death trap for my birthday because I really like it have you ever read that it's not
it's not really a book it's not really a book I got from why I ran La one time and I on the subway and people look can't be weird it's just a list of weird
things from gravestones and Wisconsin and how like weird ways people died uh
Taylor I will tell you that when I was in Michigan one morning when nothing was
going on I took a probably 2hour detour walking through a graveyard in Michigan
I love that for you and it was peaceful and kind of lovely actually I
love so uh moving on uh when police investigated this
Farmhouse again this vacant far Farmhouse where they found evidence of the murder of Don Louis in they also
discovered the earrings of the previous victim the 16-year-old Marilyn so they were starting to connect some dots I get
such true true um True Crime uh is that what it's called what's it called the
the HBO series is it true crime no oh True Blood no True Blood is a vampire
one right with Matthew Mah yeah I've never seen it but I know you're talking
about two lies no somebody's like screaming into
their whe now M it's
true True Detective True Detective it's It's So True Detective
sounding um which I kind of love despite how horrible and violent it is so basically okay so two months after the
the discovery of the body of this this um 13-year-old the nude body of a 21 year-old Alice Elizabeth [ __ ] was
discovered by another in another abandoned Farmhouse she' also been stabbed extensively in sha the head keep
that one in mind keep Alice Elizabeth Kayla in mind because she had been stabbed extensively in sha the head
we're g to come back the first one shot no she wasn't so the first one shot was Jane Luis mixer which was a law stud at
University of Miami but we will Circle back to that too so ready so by now they have six
murders all happening in close proximity to each other and all within a two-year period of time they're there's some
outliers again kind of to your point the fact that two of them were children is kind of weird the fact that some of them
were uh were sexually assaulted and some weren't is a little bit odd the fact that some had gunshot uh wounds to the
Head versus stabbings or strangulations you know it was a little bit different like it was kind of like all over the map but regardless it was clear that
there was some connection between at least some of the murderers so to the
infinite credit of the police in Michigan at this time given we just discussed about cooperation around seral
killings in the 1960s they did something that was rare then and it's kind of rare now too they coordinated efforts so
these murders were all over a 15 mile radius in Wasa County Michigan and that
essentially meant that five different law enforcement agencies had jurisdiction over different parts of the
murders usually that means that they would just work their cases separately but in this case given the immense
public outcry from the community they actually coordinated their efforts wow the yeah the community was terrified and
police really had no leads to help them hone in on a perpetrator this one this this part
actually like love at one point they hire a psychic to try and predict who the Killer is which is love that're like
1960s like [ __ ] it who cares this psychic a guy named Peter Heros basically sounds like a charlatan
he guesss that the killer would be a strongly built white male under 25 years of age born outside of the US and who
rode a motorcycle so wait that's pretty cool they got bar por of the
US that is cool I will give you that that is cool but also he's guessing in
Ann Arbor Michigan in the 1960s where the vast majority are white men under the age of
25 yeah sure I guess he's still right yeah sure sure sure yeah I want to
say a dude did it he's still right who has mom issues F fine he still he's
still right but I think is it's cool but also but maybe not because also like my
family I know immigrated to Canada first and then the US to the Midwest so maybe there was a lot of that happening as
well I'll also say that he in the 1960s prod predicted that Hitler didn't die in
the bunker that he was living in Argentina and that's where we get the whole stick of Hitler living in
Argentina from I mean right that's not great like I maybe he was right who
knows so one last thing that he predicted was that whoever the killer
was wasn't done yet and they were going to kill again and on that point he was proven right on July 26th 1969 the most
consequential murderer that we've discussed so far the body of 18-year-old Karen Sue bamman was found and there was
a lot going on with this one so this sounds like when I read about the way she was killed it sounded like a scene
out of seven the movie he beat the [ __ ] out of her and he
also removed parts of her skin to the point where you could see like the subcutaneous fat underneath it like he
really did number on her but then on top of that for some reason he made her drink some sort of costic substance like
bleach like it was like weird torture murder stuff like it was really scary
they all feel so different they kind of feel different
yeah you know like they're all awful they all feel different and like I can't even tell if it's escalating or not CU it's all like different yeah this one
feels like more brutal than the rest although oh yeah like he also killed a 13-year-old like you know me like how do
you tell like what's worse I mean they're all bad so so
this woman Karen was killed um and by now you're in a college town everybody's
losing their mind and the police are trying to figure out like we we gota we got to figure something out like this is
like everybody's lose their minds at us and so they start by um by going back to
examining some of the previous killings so back when police had first discovered Joan she was the one that had accepted a
ride for the men for the bus stop that I told you I'd come back to right right three of them potentially she um police
had at that time gone over every single lead they could go over the roommate had described the car so they pull the registrations on all the cards that fit
that description and they'd run interviews of those guys they'd also described or the roommate also described
the men in the car but again how many different ways can you write down white men in the early 20s in a college town
in Michigan like it's just yeah it's everybody like so even today yeah
yeah and so months after the body was found though um police had been told
about John Norman Collins basically two eyewitnesses stated they saw Joan
walking with Jon specifically people who knew them and a guy named a police officer named Larry matthewson had met
with an interview JN and was convinced by him that he never knew Joan never met her and that he was in Detroit the
weekend that Joan disappeared and he bought it he believed her or believed him when police started retracing the
steps Karen had taken the day she went missing they started with a wick shop she had visited that day and was told by
the employee of the wig shop that she specifically remembers Karen because she mentioned that she felt stupid because
she had accepted a ride to the wig shop and from the wig shop by a stranger on a motorcycle who was waiting for her
outside this I remember this is familiar to me from something and they never saw probably ID probably ID or somebody
probably so this officer was Larry Matthews who had interviewed John over a
year prior and when he heard the wig shop employee describing the man on the motorcycle his went head went to that
sounds like that guy Jonna interviewed immediately so it's so wild like have
you ever been interviewed for potentially being a murderer shockingly no because there's
like in these stories like interviewed hundred D in town you're like what just
feels wild I don't know anybody who has been interviewed for that um so this
officer having heard from the wig shop employees pulls up a picture of John and
the wig shop employee says yeah that was the guy that was on the motorcycle waiting for Karen everybody knew that
the last person to have seen Karen alive was were these Wick shop employees so
they're like okay this is something so please start looking at joh and they start interviewing people who know him
and they discover that he had some again antisocial Behavior especially weird
anger towards women I don't know what this personality type is where like you just hate women like I
don't like an Insel you know they like hate women so much but that's that's what's weird about this guy like he
wasn't an Insel he was dating a lot like he was constantly multi teacher yet or he's still in college he's in college
still wow yeah I don't get I don't get this like I just hate like hate women
personality like I so but that that's basically what it was he had
legitimately multiple corroborating sources said that he legitimately raped at least one woman in college oh like
that was that he didn't murder her that didn't murder and that even under consensual situations with women he
would grow angry for reasons that were like unusual kind of like the whole
menstruating thing when he would find out a woman was menstruating he would lose his [ __ ] at them it was it was
like again weirdly antisocial um he was also at this time when he was in college
employed at a company where they made drum breaks which are like breaks for cars and he would talk to his co-workers
about details of these murders that are called the Michigan Murders At this point and the details that he would discuss
they were not public knowledge but what he would say is that his uncle was a police
officer investigating this crime and would share these details with him and that's how he knew these details about
the wounds the specific Damage Done To those victims uh later on when as police are
learning all this right this picture like they just started being like we're connecting the dots we're going to interview this so they immediately asked
the uncle like wait what did you tell this kid about these murders he's like nothing like I'm even PR like I I don't
even talk to him about this stuff like not talking about my job much like the Nuance details of these these Grizzly
crimes so by now the police are pretty sure that this is this is their guy um
they'd end up going to John's Apartment to question him about where he was the day that Karen went missing and they let
him know that seven eyewitnesses saw him with Karen that day and that another three women told police he also tried to
entice them to ride his motorcycle that day so John maintained his innocence and
refused police attempts to get him back to the station for polygraph by this point I assume police were kind of
waiting for him to kind of slip up and and lead them to some more evidence because he's still free he's totally
free there's no charges or anything or's he hasn't been arrested but when all this is going on his cop
Uncle comes back into the picture and that's what I meant when I said like sometimes it's just fascinating to know
how these guys get caught so there really wait there really is a cop Uncle yes okay again thought I was making that
up no this this reminds me of tech kazinski I'll have my
revenge but and the brother that turn in so while Karen had gone missing the
uncle which I'm going to call him the uncle because it's just more interesting than his name his name is Sergeant David
leak but the uncle was on vacation with his family and he had a German shepherd
and the German Shepherd stayed at home and he needed someone to look after the dog and so the uncle gave John the keys
to the house and John was basically living there during this time when the family gets home from
their vacation they notice like some weird stuff going on they first off noticed there's like black paint on the floor of the basement and they also
noticed like a bunch of cleaning supplies they owned were missing from the house hate that yeah never a good
sign the next day is when investigators tell the uncle that his nephew is under
investigation he goes home with this knowledge and the uncle in what I assume
is like a scene out of a horror movie he just starts like scraping away some of this paint that's in the basement and he
thinks what he has uncovered under the paint is human blood and so he reports
back to the investigators what he's found so police decide to conduct a full
on Forensic investigation of the basement and discovered two pretty interesting bits of evidence first off
was that tiny hair clippings which appear similar to hair clippings found at the site where Karen's body was
discovered they were positively identified to being Karen's hair I'm not going to go into a ton of detail again
I'm I hate the graphicness of this
whatever this guy did to Karen there was obviously a rape involved and there was
stuff shoved inside her and part of the stuff that was shoved inside her include these weird small hair clippings that
police were like why is this in here and they find this hairclip being in the
uncle's basement remember when that guy I when
that guy s at your apartment for a couple weeks and he like never paid you when one was like drinking the entire
time I did think about that actually I'm glad that he didn't murder
anyone in your apartment or maybe he did I don't know yeah I still get angry thinking about it I'm gonna let's move on
um so the other the other interesting thing they found in this uncle's basement was that blood on the ground
there was blood on the ground there was absolutely unequivocally there was blood on the ground again this is
1969 they can't do DNA analysis on this the best they can do is blood type
analysis and what they discovered is that the blood type on the ground didn't match anybody who was in the house or
was president in The house's blood type but it did match Karen's so oh my God there's that so by this point they're
like okay so obviously we know that those other two girls were taken
somewhere killed and then their bodies were placed somewhere else now we found Karen's body and there's all this
evidence pointing to this being the murder site of Karen and so like it it's
starting to form a pattern for the cops right and so they ended up arresting Jon
and let him know what they had discovered um but at the time all this is just TIY Karen it's not related to
any of the other murders I mentioned earlier this is where another incredible
insane tidbit comes into play shortly after being arrested and charged police
in Miss are contacted by investigators in salinus California who thought a murder on their books was connected to
John whoa in this case it was a 17-year-old girl named Roxy Anne Phillips whose nude and badly beaten
body was found in a ravine in July between the deaths of Joan and Karen
Karen being the last person I just discussed who's presumably been killed in uncle's
basement police heard through roxxy's friend that she'd been acquainted with a man who who recently was visiting
montere California who attended Eastern Michigan named John who wanted to be a
teacher and was living there temporarily in a camper trailer like obviously this
guy right so police tracing Jon's footsteps found that he was traveling during this
time to Monteray California Tony a camper trailer behind his car so they made the connection the murder of Roxy
was also added to John's indictment but that was a separate indictment so this
this was all Michigan based stuff and they issued this indictment in California the whole point of it was you
got to hold off until this Karen murder trial is concluded then you can address
roxxy's Roxy's murder so that's what ended up happening so his trial begins and his defense argues basically that
the evidence was shaky and that it was circumstantial and not conclusive that police mishandled the
evidence and that they intimidated Witnesses and that John is not guilty that's the whole argument MH he was
obviously found guilty yeah clearly and he was sent us to life without parole
and solitary confinement California tried to extradite him back to try him
for roxxy's murder but they gave up because they're like look this is a waste of time and it's a waste of money
because even if we do bring him back and secure conviction he has to go back to Michigan to serve his sentence anyways
like there's no he's never getting out of jail like there's no point in doing this like you know so they let it go but as relates to
the other murderers again he's only tried and convicted for carens as it relates to
the first murder the Mary fleser the one who has the Elanor Roosevelt quote associated with her so she was really
proud of this 1967 coin the silver dollar from the Expo that she had it was
like a Keepsake for her they found that coin in John's dresser no
wow as it relates to like poor baby yeah as it relates to Joanne scale scale the
girl who was trying to go to Ann Arbor to visit her boyfriend and then got stopped and a bunch of guys offered her
ride so John's roommate Arnold verified that the two of them and another one of
their friends offered to give Joan a ride that day at the bus station and that Jon later take the two other men
out and then arrived home 3 hours later calling Joan a [ __ ] and car her purse
with him great not great that explains the
couple of people yeah yeah car yeah the other is Alice [ __ ] so Arnold also said
that this woman was at their apartment and that her and John got into an argument and that she left the apartment
and then he went racing after her he returned later with a knife which he gave to Arnold to hide for him which he
did he would later state that he wanted to go to the police he was positive he had killed Alice but was terrified of
him and so he didn't that's fair which at this point it's like dude he already you already pretty sure he killed one
woman like and now you know he killed two like maybe just back off this one
but long story short he ends up uh trying to appeal a sense multiple
multiple different ways none of it goes anywhere because he is so obviously guilty of this stuff even if he didn't
kill one of these he killed one of the other ones like he he he did something here right um the only thing is that he
actually is exonerated off of one of them because You' ask isn't it weird that he shot one in the head and it was
weird because Jane mixer the law student at University of Miami or Michigan in
2005 a guy named Gary Earl leaderman so that would be 40 years no 37 years after
the murderer this guy Gary Earl leaderman was charging convicted off DNA evidence that was found her body oh um
for having killed her and so John is not guilty of that one but the rest he
almost certainly dead rough time rough time to be a lady needing a ride the 60s
and 70s so this is when University started introducing the buddy system so the buddy system wasn't really a thing
until this point yeah so um it was it was like either I I like how they put it
it was either every woman should walk home with a man that they know and trust or three women so they assumed that it
was like if there was three women they could overtake a man which I think two would be enough
frankly but sure I don't know no I think that that's fair you know it sucks but like it's hard I mean in New York I used
to walk home all the time with my keys in my fist you know like I would be able
to get my wits together to punch someone in the face with my keys but I would that's what I would do just in case you know it is weird to like I have heard
from women about like what it's like to be alone and like MH I don't know I I I
guess like it's like a privilege and a courtesy like I've never walked home and been like scared someone's gonna hurt
me so many times it just been like you have to be like super alert take your headphones off be ready to like fight
for your self I definitely had men that I trust walk me home and like make sure
I got inside yeah yeah yeah I remember doing that in uh in high school or not in high school but in college for people
too but it just it just shows like you know what uh our our lived experiences
are like and can be can be because like in the cases of these seven women they walked home and their parents are
updating a website for 40 years or no 60 years about like their favorite kind of
macaroni and cheese they like to it's crazy like did he ever say anything about why he did it did is he he never
he yeah he's still alive he's 77 years old he's never he's never said that he's guilty never said that he did
it whoa I see pictures of him old yeah he's just like hanging out in jail I guess yeah yeah he's never he's never
been like yeah I did it he's been he's confessed his innocence and been appealing it ever since yeah yeah he's a
horrible uh person but that's so scary so anyways uh ladies
um listen don't walk home with your keys get get some mace get some pepper spray like that's true I could have gotten
some mace I did not I got had my keys and I think now I'd have some and there's also some really cool things
that you can buy now that are like really loud alarms and I also have on like my my iPhone if you like really
quickly click this this top button it'll call 911 it's like the top right button
on your iPhone if you click it like three times it'll directly call 911 wait really so I yeah wait I can do that
right now click it three times it'll say do you want to call 911 if you have it set up try it the top um like the power
button yeah did it do it no it pulled up my credit card okay maybe sure on let me
do it we have to open it no I guess may I don't have it on
back to the middle well I should turn that on I
think it's something
or also also like
find find a way to like solve the problem yourself like by the time the comps get there you're already [ __ ]
dead so like yes have the cops on call but like
also have like pepper spray on you yeah oh no here what you do you hold
the volume button and the side button at the same time for couple seconds and it'll give you
emergency call right away holy [ __ ] wait that worked a picture of it I can cannot just um but
yeah do that so that you can you don't have you don't have to open your phone you can just get right
to call Emergency Services man Apple's so good between like there these laptops
that last a lifetime I know anyways that's my story I'm
sticking to it Agree to Agree well thank you FS
my announcement for today is that it's my birthday on June 5th on Wednesday wait it's your birthday on
June 5th yeah so if you're listening to this on the day it comes out please share with your friends for my birthday
present um is this 42 it is the year the what's the 42 the answer to life and
everything what is 42 it's the answer to
life it's a me the ultimate it's the answer to the ultimate question of life the universe and everything is 42 that's
from hiter guy to the Galaxy one of my favorite movies which I hate the fact that it doesn't hold up
because it doesn't it doesn't I watched it like years later and was like this is kind of
stupid I have I've read I don't if I've read it but I should read it again so the meaning of life is 42 um so I'm
excited to be 42 I was just talking to Rachel about this about how um
I guess everybody says this but like it's kind of nice being our agage you know no I like it I'm I'm good I felt oh
no one thing we missed because we missed last week because I you didn't tell you that I ran a 5k did I tell you this no
and so we a 5K in town and they have like a annual grub steak days which is like a yucka valley town thing and
there's a 2K a 5K and 10K last year we did the 2K and Juan did the 10K and the 10K was a lot Juan was like that was too
much and we did the 2K and I was like that was dumb I feel stupid it was like a mile so so we all did the 5K this year
and Florence did great she got number nine all all around in females and she
got second place in her age group she did wonderful she totally was like I was like stay in my eyesight she was gone
just gone Juan got like fifth in his in men and then um miles got third place
for his age group um but I did not get a medal but I carried miles half of it he
was crying so hard he was like I hate this I never want to do this again and he totally gets up for me because I totally would do that during the middle of 5K so I carried him and I carried him
across the finish line and then we got the local paper and I was not listed as someone who had ran the 5k Miles was
Florence was and Juan was and I was not so I wrote a letter to the editor of the local paper and they wrote back and said they're very
sorry but then my body hurt until Wednesday so that was my old that was my old lady thing I ran the 5K on Sunday
until Wednesday I was like ow ow ow ow I had a brief moment where I thought maybe
I should sign up for a half marathon and I was like what are you talking about ew gross no I'm like miles I'm like dude
like this is pointless this is so stupid there's more gitos in every store I'm passing and I'm like just running like I
don't get it like what's the point of this I that's remember one time we did an AIDS an AIDS Walk I used to do that in New York which was fun you could like
do a big walk you raise money all the things but in the middle of the AIDS Walk we would like stop to get brunch I'm like I'm not taing myself for this
AIDS Walk I'm GNA stop and I think you were the one that's started the whole um
there's some families that that start thinking on Thanksgiving
morning and some families they go running on Thanksgiving morning you got to pick the right one to join exactly you need to make make that clear before
you marry someone it's a family goingon to make you run a 5k Thanksgiving morning or they GNA start drinking at
10: a.m. and start cooking yeah those are your two options yeah we're we're C from the same cloth Taylor yeah yeah I'm
not not doing that but no but it was really fun and we'll do it again every year because it's really fun you get to like donate money to the community and
um like the lady that works at the post office was there you know and some of their friends were there and then like
the guy who has the car covered in Trump stickers was there and he was holding a cross that said Jesus and an American
flag and was yelling happy Memorial Day and then like praying he didn't actually do the 5K but he paid for it because he won the
raffle it's a whole thing I parked for you won the raffle because you have to
like get you get raffle tickets if you pay to do the 5K and you got raffle tickets he didn't actually run he just stood there the whole time holding his
cross and his American flag and like praying and yelling happy Memorial Day every 5 minutes so one of the scariest moments I had was like the first month
or so I moved to Austin and if anybody is in Austin you know ladybird Lake in Auditorium Shores like it's crazy
populated crazy popular he's up there running up and down the by the lake and
I take my dog out for a walk I'm going a walk the lake and a guy in camo Gear
with like a giant uh knife like a like a Rambo knife he
was walking crosswise on the trail holding uh make America great again flag
but he was like cutting people off he was going sideways length to length as people were trying to go by him and then
I noticed that he also had like a wife and like a very young child they were like sitting on the side watching him do
this and I was like in that one moment I was I was just like it was like a weird moment like being like it's scary
because you have no idea what what that guy's potentially going to do they like what is going on with his wife and his
kid what is he doing to them where he's like hey this this Saturday morning when all these people are going to have a
good time and go running and then make game plans where they're going get egg Benedict we're going to go cut them off
threateningly with a giant freaking knife on my side holding camo Gear with a giant flly it was really creepy it was
really I hate that I hate that that that sucks I feel bad for them I
read this random article this week from a woman who was a cable person and she would like go into houses and like
install cable and she talked about a lot of like the weird [ __ ] that that she saw and one of the like she went to like a a
Russian mobster's house and they made her do coke before she could do the cable so they would know that she would
would be an arc you know stuff like that but like one person the husband was like
so mad the cable wasn't working and the wife kind of confessed to her that like if he cannot watch Fox News and be upset
at the world he's going to beat her up dude Taylor I okay sorry we're like weigh into some weird conversations so
at our last company together I do you remember [Music]
politicon So for anybody that doesn't know politicon is like this political nerd conference but it's like it's
not it's not policy WS it's not like the Heritage Foundation it's like the people
running like really obscure underground like YouTube channels and like stuff
like that these are not insiders they're just like crazy people mostly like that
that show up here anyways that company would sponsor this like um a showing
because in this case it was an LA we base in La all that stuff anyways um I was there and people would come to
booths and try to talk to us and this family came up and at first I was like
man there's like something weird about this like the wife seems normal the kid seems kind of normal the kid was like
maybe like three years old the husband seems like like he has a contorted look
on his face and I like it's so weird he was like talking to me and like I didn't
notice it for the first little bit and I noticed that he had like an infow Wars hat on it's like oh like this is like it
was it was a moment of like when you consume this content like think about the content you consume because it'll
it'll impact to the point where your face is just contorted in a way like are you like gonna hit me like weird how
imagine like living with that person or like watching that person become that person and that was the thing that's that's why that's where my head went
with the wife and the kid because like I was like dude like you got to be so scared all the time like you wake up and
this guy's coming out of the bathroom and just like with this face on like God he just nice probably you know yeah like
they're scary it's like yeah I don't know be careful about the content you consume because I mean there's a difference
between like being open-minded and being like just okay then crazy yeah no it's scary
it's scary and it's scary that like you turn a corner and there's like so many different things you can find on the
internet you know yeah like or you can find us and we're wholesome and happy and healthy
and you tell your friends about and share it with like everyone you know you know sming none of our fa areed content
my face has controlled this entire episode but I'm glad that no one can see it um anyways Taylor uh yes write to us
at dlod gmail.com find us on the socials add dfl pod anything else to lead off
with Taylor um no that's it uh thank you fars thank you friends happy birthday to
me happy birthday Taylor thank you bye all