Today, we explore Circuses of the early 1900s - a not-great-for-animals menagerie of tricks and oddities. Benjamin Wallace was one of the greats out of Indiana and, by 1918, had cashed out while his Circus kept going via two giant trains full of performers, animals, and equipment. After getting through The Great Flood of 1913 and the second worst circus train crash of all time, the Hagenbeck-Wallace circus train was slammed into at 4 am in Hammond, Indiana. Many people died in the ensuing fire and were buried at Woodlawn Cemetary in Chicago at 'Showmen's Rest' a 750-acre plot procured by Buffalo Bill Cody. We also tell a few Chicago specific ghost stories just for fun!
Today, we explore Circuses of the early 1900s - a not-great-for-animals menagerie of tricks and oddities. Benjamin Wallace was one of the greats out of Indiana and, by 1918, had cashed out while his Circus kept going via two giant trains full of performers, animals, and equipment. After getting through The Great Flood of 1913 and the second worst circus train crash of all time, the Hagenbeck-Wallace circus train was slammed into at 4 am in Hammond, Indiana. Many people died in the ensuing fire and were buried at Woodlawn Cemetary in Chicago at 'Showmen's Rest' a 750-acre plot procured by Buffalo Bill Cody.
We also tell a few Chicago specific ghost stories just for fun!
https://www.showmensleague.org/Showmens-Rest/13255248
Hi Friends! Our transcripts aren't perfect, but I wanted to make sure you had something - if you'd like an edited transcript, I'd be happy to prioritize one for you - please email doomedtofailpod@gmail.com - Thanks! - Taylor
Taylor: I was told I came off as low energy on Monday episode
>> Taylor: In the matter of the people of state of California versus Orenthal James Simpson, case number ba zero nine six.
>> Farz: And so, my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you. And boom, Taylor, we are alive, active, and healthy and happy. How are you?
>> Taylor: Not. Not very healthy. And I'm kind of grumpy, but I'm not.
>> Farz: Are you active?
>> Taylor: No.
>> Farz: Okay. So.
>> Taylor: Not at all. So speak for yourself, farmers.
>> Farz: I was told that I came off as super low energy on the Monday episode, and.
>> Taylor: Really?
>> Farz: Yeah. I didn't realize that. And so I'm gonna be as high energy as I can be, so.
>> Taylor: Oh, God.
>> Farz: This can be a very exciting episode for you.
>> Taylor: I really need that from.
>> Farz: I know.
>> Taylor: Isn't it my turn?
>> Farz: It is your turn.
>> Taylor: Okay, great.
>> Farz: Yeah, yeah. So I guess it'll just be a casual observer.
>> Taylor: Great. High energy, but I need you. You can make some faces at me that are like, give me jazz hands every once in a while. I love it. Thank you.
>> Farz: I don't know what this is.
>> Taylor: That's not a jazz hand, but it's close.
Welcome to doomed to fail. And I am Taylor, joined by farce
hello, everyone. Welcome to doomed to fail. We are the podcast that brings you history's most notorious disasters and epic failures twice a week, every week. And I am Taylor, joined by farce.
>> Farz: I, am here.
>> Taylor: You know what I was thinking is one really, really big thing that we have right now, because we are not making any money off of this podcast, is that we don't have any ads. And I've been listening to other very popular podcasts. Like, every fucking five minutes there's an ad, and I want to murder someone. So you're welcome, everyone, for this ad list episode.
>> Farz: Okay, I will say that as much as I enjoyed, Got pod save America.
>> Farz: Man, they overdo it on the ads. Like, it is. It is constant. It's. It's like, constant. And, like, right when you're in the. When you're, like, really into it and, like, in the zone, and you're like, okay, I'm gonna listen to the podcast and hop in the shower. And then you're, like, scrubbing yourself, you're like, damn it, there's another episode. So there was, like, the entire shower time that was gonna absorb their amazing commentary on american politics, and it's just gone.
>> Taylor: Yeah, yeah. Super nice.
>> Farz: So you're welcome, America.
>> Taylor: Exactly.
>> Farz: Also, you're not getting paid. I'm getting. I'm getting, like, a month off this.
>> Taylor: Are you? Great for you.
>> Farz: It's a odd reveal.
>> Taylor: It's an odd reveal. I, feel a little weird about it, but. Okay. Yeah. And I said, I feel a little sick. A little sickly today. I was traveling, and it was hard. It's hard to get anywhere from here because I live in the middle of nowhere. So I don't know, I figured it'd be better just to take a one way flight rather than get on one that has, layovers. It's just like, do I want to do that, or do I want to drive to Las Vegas? Like, those are my options. And this time I drove to Las Vegas. But it's just hard to do that by yourself. It's like a three and a half hour drive through nowhere, you know? So, yeah, I listened to the song of Achilles, which was lovely. Anna cried. it's a book by Madeline Miller. She's done a couple where she, like, Does like, a little deep dive into greek myths, sort of. and that one. And circe. I cried a lot at the end of both of them, and they were very good. So beautiful. Yeah.
>> Farz: Sounds lovely.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: And,
You are the first speaker of the day, so speak first
Okay, so I think you are the first speaker of the day.
>> Taylor: I am.
>> Farz: you speak first.
>> Taylor: Are you ready?
>> Farz: I'm the captive audience.
>> Taylor: Great.
>> Farz: Captivate me.
>> Taylor: okay.
Austin is hosting the Democratic National Convention this week
so I was in Chicago this week, like I just said, and I wanted to tell some Chicago stories, because I'm from there, sort of. I'm from a suburb of Chicago, and I lived there till I was 13. and I love it. I got there, actually, really early on Wednesday at, like, 05:00 p.m. so I was able to walk around, and I walked to the lake. And it's so pretty. And there's, like, the streets are so wide. There are alleys, the buildings are all old and pretty. there's roving gangs of drunk white women. Like, so many. It's so great. Older white women with short hair carrying cases of miller lite just around.
>> Farz: I mean, it sounds like every bachelorette party I see here in Austin.
>> Taylor: Yeah, but they're, like, always. But they're older in Chicago.
>> Farz: okay.
>> Taylor: You know what I mean? Like, they're not, like, in their twenties. They're, like, in their sixties, and they're great. And so they're a bunch of. That rains there. and there's. They're prepping for the DNC, obviously. So there's, like, DNC signs everywhere. there are volunteers at the airport, which, like, I love, because that's something that I totally would have done, is, like, been a volunteer to hold a sign at the airport, you know, when in my youth.
>> Farz: I. Yeah, I.
>> Taylor: You know what?
>> Farz: I'm not gonna go into that story. Go ahead.
>> Taylor: Cool. Well, I would have done that. and, a lot of people who you could tell were going in there for the DNC who were like, you know, on their phones constantly because they think they're the most important person in the democratic party.
>> Farz: Of course, if you're a delegate, you are the most important person.
>> Taylor: Tell that they're on their phone being like, if I do not do this, the United States of America and democracy will fall apart.
>> Farz: You know, I will say, I kind of love that energy, because if you talk to them, like, these are not, like, crazy high power people. These are, like, school teachers. These are like, you know what I mean? Like, they're just normal, everyday people, or.
>> Taylor: They'Re like a staffer of, like, a mid to low level, who gives a shit, you know?
>> Farz: Representative. Yeah.
>> Taylor: Yeah. But I'm very happy for them, and I just want to tell them not to forget to drink water, because I feel like they're probably going to be very stressed out this week. I don't know.
>> Farz: It seems like it's going to be like a celebration.
>> Taylor: I think it'll be fun. I know that, like, some people I know, we're going to an event where voice to men are singing, which sounds amazing.
>> Farz: I think if Biden was still in and I was going to be a delegate, I would just be like, why am I here?
>> Taylor: You'd be more serious.
>> Farz: I'd be just drinking and just, like, get me out of this situation.
>> Taylor: Yeah, but now it's going to be fun.
>> Farz: Yeah, now it's going to be fun.
>> Taylor: Yeah, I agree. I also was like, I feel like every time I'm reading about Chicago, it's like, there's a convention. So I looked it up. Chicago has hosted the most major party presidential nominating conventions of any city, 14 Republican and eleven democratic. So. Because I always feel like there's always something happening in Chicago, so.
>> Farz: Yeah, of course.
>> Taylor: It's great.
>> Farz: I was in Chicago in October, like, a year or two ago, and it was beautiful. I thought it was lovely.
>> Taylor: Yeah. So I definitely want to go back, take the kids, go to museums, and. Very, very fun.
Chicago has incredible buildings. As you know, one of them is the Hancock Tower
so I'm going to tell you some Chicago stories. but I want to tell you a disaster story in the middle of two ghost stories.
>> Farz: Okay. I'm not even going to guess because that sounds.
>> Taylor: They're not related. They're not even related to each other. They're just stories my dad has told me. So the good stories are not true. The stories my dad has told me, but, like, the other part is true. So my Chicago has incredible buildings. As you know, one of them is the Hancock Tower. so it was named after the John Hancock insurance. Insurance company. named after, obviously, the John Hancock of the signing of the Declaration of Independence. they changed the name of the building to 875 North Michigan Avenue in 2018, which is stupid. There's the address.
>> Farz: Oh, really? I didn't know that.
>> Taylor: Okay, yeah, that's dumb. So I guess you can't. Well, you can't call the Sears Towers all the Willis Tower. Like, who cares? That's stupid. You can't change any buildings.
>> Farz: Wait, they changed the Sears Tower to the Willis Tower?
>> Taylor: A long time ago.
>> Farz: Okay, the marketing sucked because I never knew that.
>> Taylor: Yeah, no, that's dumb. the Hancock Tower has businesses and restaurants. 700 condos. When it was built in 1968, it was the tallest residence in the world. And the second. And, the second tallest building in the world, against the Empire State Building, it's now the 13th tallest building in the world. but it scares the shit out of me because of Poltergeist three. Have you seen Poltergeist three?
>> Farz: No.
>> Taylor: M so Poltergeist one, obviously amazing. Poltergeist two. It's actually so scary. I've only watched it once because there's a really scary cult leader, religious old man that buries people alive. And I can't get over it. It scares me. Poltergeist three is in the Hancock Tower. So the girl. The little girl, ah. Goes and visits her uncle, and just, like, a bunch of scary shit happens there. And it's really. And I've seen it a couple times, and there's a lot of, like, mirrors involved and stuff. And, like, it's very, very scary. So also, this is nothing to do with my main story I'm telling you today. But do you know that the word poltergeist, I was like, what does that even mean? I know geist means ghost, but what does Polter mean? Polter means to make a sound. So Poltergeist is a ghost that makes a sound. Okay. Huh? I didn't know that.
>> Farz: I'm glad we know that now.
>> Taylor: If everybody knew that. So my dad had a friend who lived there in the eighties, and he had a condo and lived there. Everything was normal. One day, his sister knocks on the door, and he's like, hey, what are you doing here? She's like, oh, I just wanted to come in and, like, say hi and see how you're doing. So she comes in, they talk for a little bit, and she's like, you know, I just want you to know that, like, I'm okay. And that I'm like, very. I'm happy. And that please tell mom that I love her and that I'm like, I'm totally fine. And he was like, okay. And she was like, okay, well, I'll see you. Like, I'll see you. And she leaves, and then as soon as it closes the door, his phone rings and his mom calls, and his sister had just died in a plane crashed. It was a ghost.
>> Farz: But your dad told you that story.
>> Taylor: Yes, he told me. His friend told me that story.
>> Farz: I, see why you are into horror the way you're into horror now.
>> Taylor: You told me that story when I was very, very young. I have no reason not to believe it. But anyway, isn't that exciting?
>> Farz: Yeah. It also sounds like, ah, I feel like I've also read that in, like, a goosebumps story when I was in 8th grade.
>> Taylor: Absolutely. Absolutely. That's the kind of story it is. It also happened definitely in the haunting of Hill house show.
>> Farz: Yeah, you're right.
>> Taylor: Sister goes to the brother's house, and she's. She's been dead the whole time. Yeah, spoiler, alert for that old show. But, Okay, so that's my first ghost story. I'll tell you another one later.
The Hammond circus train wreck of 1918 happened in Indiana
But let's talk about a disaster that happened in Chicago. I'm going to talk about the Hammond circus train wreck of 1918.
>> Farz: Sweet.
>> Taylor: Cool. It technically happened in Indiana. It happened in Hammond, Indiana, but the people who died in it are buried in the Woodlawn cemetery in, Forest Park, Illinois, which is near Chicago, which is also where my great great great and grandparents are buried. So a lot of sterics and the people who died in the string crash are in the Woodlawn cemetery in Chicago. So, I'll start with the beginning about the circus. So, a man named Ben E. Wallace was born on October 4, 1847, in Pennsylvania. He enlisted in the civil war, but before, before he even got to do anything, it was over. He did get to keep the $250 that he got because someone had paid him to go in their place. So, he had a little bit of money, and he was able to kind of go west, and he ended up in Peru, Indiana. In Peru? Peru, Indiana. He got into horses, and he owned a bunch of horses. Ended up having one of the best stables in Indiana. So I don't know if he, like, breed what that means. He like, breed horses. People can ride them. You sell them, you take care of horses. He was a horse guy. in 1882, he started to get interested in circuses because it was, like, a weird time to have circuses. Like, there's no rules, you know, just probably, like, half circus, half freak show, half terrible to animals. All.
>> Farz: It sounds awful. Yeah, yeah.
>> Taylor: like, totally unregulated entertainment.
>> Farz: Yeah. The worst part of human history. Yes. Ah, yeah. Where we traded poor people with disfigurements and. Okay.
>> Taylor: Yeah, yeah, yeah. And tons of animals and, like, you know, all the things. so the first thing he did is he bought several train cars full of stuff from another circus, because there were, like, tons of, like, roaming circuses from another circus that had shut down, called the WC coupe show. And it was, like, full of weird stuff, like costumes and tents and poles and, like, just, like, whatever shit you might need to start a circus. Then he started to buy more train cars and horses and other animals from a thing called Nathan and company's traveling menagerie, which was, like, probably, again, wagons full of, like, monkeys.
>> Farz: Poor animals that just really want freedom.
>> Taylor: Yeah. It reminds me a little bit of, there's, like, this Netflix show a while. A long time ago that was, like, a bunch. The ballad of buster Scruggs. I had that one in it, a couple other ones, but one of them had, like, a weird traveling, like, freak show, and it was very uncomfortable. so he has all these animals. He has the tents, and he gets performers, and then he has some, like, weird ass train cars made, which are, like, really ornate, and I'll share pictures of them, but they have, like, carvings of animals on the sides, because, like, you would know when the circus train was, like, coming to town. You know, you'd be excited about it. And circus trains are still a thing. another thing that my dad told me, which I'm pretty sure it's true, he used to be a cab driver in Las Vegas, and he. Some guys, you know, wanted to go back to where they were staying, and they were staying at the train yard on the circus train, because, like, how else would you get animals around the country, you know?
>> Farz: Or is this even a thing right now?
>> Taylor: Well, I don't think. I think, like, they were until very recently. If they aren't still, I think you can still go a circus. It's not as, like.
>> Farz: Yeah, I remember when I was a kid, like, a very small kid, when Barnum and Bailey came to Dallas and we went to that, and I remember. I thought it was incredible. And then you grow up and you learn about what they do. Those poor elephants. You're like, this is horrible. And then I saw Dumbo and was like, we can't do this anymore.
>> Taylor: Yeah, it's actually. It's a lot like Dumbo. That is the time period that we're in. That's exactly right. Yeah. Yeah. so, Wallace partnered with a man named James Anderson, who he eventually bought out, and his circus toured Indiana, Kentucky, and Virginia and called it a world tour, which is fun, you know, a little circle. It was called Wallace and company's great world menagerie, grand international Mardi Gras, highway holiday, Hidalgo, and the alliance of Novelties. And they changed that to the great Wallace shows because that was too long. Obviously, that was a lot of names. and eventually. So it's the great Wallace shows, and there's, you know, dogs, there's clowns, there's acrobats, there's elephants, there's zebras, there's, like, all sorts of shit that you'd expect at a circus in the late 18 hundreds. In 1892, he bought a 220 acre farm from the son of a Miami war chief named Gabriel Godfroy. And he called it the winter quarters because they couldn't, like, you know, Indiana, Kentucky, and Virginia get really cold, so you can't, like, ride the train around all year long. So during the winter, they would just kind of, like, hunker down at this space, and they would have a bunch of, like, barns and, like, places where they would take care of the animals. there was a elephant barn, a foundry where they would make, like, horseshoes and stuff, like, an ironworks. And then it said there was a cat barn, which, like, I laughed at for five minutes. And then I thought, maybe they mean lions and not just, like, cats.
>> Farz: They definitely mean lions. I'm actually. It's funny because you mentioned, like, how long the name was, and I just realized the name is actually ringling brothers and Barnum and Bailey Circus. It's like, that is a really long name. And then if you're on their Wikipedia page, the first picture that comes up or not, like, one of the first ones that comes up is this guy standing in front of five what has to be, like, 800 pound tigers. And I'm like, oh, so horrible that.
>> Taylor: We did imagine those guys in, like, a barn in Vienna, you know? And the Ringling brothers, Barnum and Bailey will eventually buy the great Wallace shows. So it could have been Wallace's tigers that are in there, you know?
>> Farz: Can I just say that, my hot take is every time a tiger or a lion attacks a tamer at a circus, I kind of get happy and excited.
>> Taylor: I do think.
Roy: In 1880, the Hagenbach Wallace circus had its first train wreck
I do want to talk about Sir Creed and Roy sometime, because I think that tiger was trying to protect him. I don't.
>> Farz: I don't know the circumstances. I would assume that a place like operation like Syria, Roy, is different than, like, taking tigers and throwing them on a fucking freight. Yes.
>> Taylor: Ah, it is like 100 years later.
>> Farz: It's a hundred years later, and, like, there's a PETA, there's ASPCA, there's like, a whole host of regular. Like, I assume those tigers actually live, like, a pretty decent life, but, like, in the olden times, I think, yes, I'd rather be killed.
>> Taylor: Absolutely. No, totally. so they have that place where they, you know, they hang out during the winter. in 1892, they also had their first train wreck. And in that wreck, 26 horses were killed, which was a cost about $5,000 to, replace them and, like, retrain them. So they had had, a couple things happen before the big one that we're going to talk about. So there was that one in 1892. In 1903, there was another train wreck. So by this time, the train is in, like, two sections. and the first train was in Durand, Michigan, which is where they were headed, as expected. And the second train was coming up to them, and they did not slow down. So it slammed into the first section of the circus train, killing 26 men of the circus and an unknown, number of railroad employees and some animals. The driver of the second train said that the brakes were broken, but they weren't. he had just, for whatever reason, not stopped in time. This is the second worst train wreck ever for a circus. And I feel like now you know that I'm going to tell you about the first worst train wreck for a circus in a second.
>> Farz: Right.
>> Taylor: That one happened first.
>> Farz: This is the appetizer.
>> Taylor: Yeah. And then something also about, like. So, yeah, the animals are, like, obviously being treated, like, not great and all the things, but the people are also, like, people who are gonna, like, hop on and off trains, you know, like, they're heading west and they're gonna work for the circus for, I don't know, a month and just, like, take care of the horses or something. So there's people who are, like, coming in and out all the time, so there's never, like, an exact number of people. It's not like they have, like, a complicated, like, workplace system. Yeah, they don't.
>> Farz: They don't have, like, an HR management software. There's no osha in place.
>> Taylor: Exactly.
>> Farz: Did you hop on the train while I was moving or not? It's like, who gives a shit?
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: Missing your arm. It's fine. Keep. Keep doing your job.
>> Taylor: Oh, you got bit by a lion. Whatever.
>> Farz: Insane. Humans were insane in the early days.
>> Taylor: so in 1907, Wallace bought the Carl Hagenbach circus, and he calls the circus the Hagenbeck Wallace circus from now on. Carl Hagenbeck didn't like this. He tried to sue him and have him stop using his name, but people had, like, the Hagenbeck circus had been pretty popular, and for doing things like, it didn't really move. You would observe animals, like, in a more natural setting than, like, in a cage, you know, like in the last unicorn. And so he would, He was kind of mad about it, but he lost a suit, and his name was still going to be in it. so now the Wallace circus. The Hagenbach Wallace circus is huge. it is traveling on two trains, and each train is at least 28 cars. So it's really big. And I have some pictures. I read a part of a book. I didn't realize that I was like, this book stops in a really weird place, but I only had half of it, and I was like, well, it's too late to figure out how to read the rest of this book, but it has the pictures of it, of the circus going through town when it gets there, with a parade with zebras in it and stuff. Fun. and fun to see if you were a child in the 1880s.
>> Farz: Right? You know, I'm sure that experience didn't teach those kids how to treat other people in a subjugated way.
>> Taylor: Yes, exactly. They just. They just saw zebras, and they're fine.
>> Farz: Right.
>> Taylor: Okay. so it's huge. They have a lot of animals and a lot of people working for them. In the spring of 1913, there was a, huge flood in Indiana. So they're actually in the winter quarters, which is the big plot of land that Wallace had purchased. And a lot of warm rain fell on snow, which caused a lot of flooding, and the winter quarters were flooded, and there was $150,000 in damages. Eight elephants died. One elephant was found a few miles down the river. Like, it floated on the river. It drowned, in the. And eight elephants, 21 lions, and tigers, and eight horses all died in that flood. So they had their share of disasters leading up to big one. in 1913, and the, Wallace sold the circus to a man named Ed Ballard. So he didn't run it anymore. Another man did. he kept the land in Indiana, the winter quarters, until 1921. And eventually ringling brothers would buy it, and they kept the land as a place to burn old circus wagons, which is a weird thing to need to do. But it was like decommissioned Greenling brothers. Yeah, decommissioned place. And now it is the, The spot of the circus hall of Fame is in Peru, Indiana, on the land that Wallace had bought for the winter quarters. And you can go there today if you want to.
>> Farz: I'm sure it'd be a good learning experience.
>> Taylor: Yeah. so it's 1913.
In 1918, the circus heads into Indiana for another show
It belongs to Ed Ballard, and it's getting very popular. So it's getting more and more popular. The circus itself still called, You know, it's still gonna be called the Hagenbach Wallace Circus. And, in 1918, it is headed into, into Indiana for another. For a show. and so what, into Hammond, Indiana, for a show? I want to get the name of the town.
A train carrying circus performers crashed into another train on June 22, 1918
So the train is in two parts, as usual, traveling through Indiana. The first part of the train stops for maintenance just before 04:00 a.m. and the second part of the train is kind of slowing down after it. The second part has all of the people in it. I think the first part has, like, more of the animals and, like, the equipment and stuff. So there was another train, a third train behind them. It was a Michigan Central Railroad troop train, which is a military train to, like, move people, in the military. But it was empty. And there was a man named Alonzo Sargent, and he was. He was, the conductor of that, the engineer, or whatever you call it, of that train, and he fell asleep. And his thing was, like, I ate a lot of food the day before. I. The train is very, like, relaxing, the way it, like, lulls you to sleep. And I was tired, and he fell asleep. I'm also sure that he was probably drunk also.
>> Farz: That is true. A train does lull you to sleep.
>> Taylor: Yeah, but, like, if it's your job to stay awake, you can't fall asleep.
>> Farz: I fell asleep on the train, but it was not my job to conduct.
>> Taylor: Exactly. So who cares? he missed several flags and several alarms to tell him to stop, to slow down, but he didn't slow down. And his train hit the second train full of people at 35 miles an hour at 04:00 a.m. on June 22, 1918. Eventually, Alonzo Sargent and the person that was also working with him on the train will be. Their case will be thrown out after a mistrial. And he'll never be charged for it, but, like, everybody agrees that it was his fault. And he even said, like, I fell asleep, like, that's what happened, you know? So people probably died initially when they got hit because they were all sleeping. Remember, it's 04:00 a.m. so they probably. The train got hit and all the sleeping cars, like, tipped over and the people were crushed. But really the big thing that happened is the sleeping cars had kerosene lamps in them, and they immediately caught on fire, right. So in the fire, 86 people died. Many of them were burned beyond recognition. only five of them were ever identified of the people that died. So they were circus performers, circus workers. They were, transient people who were jumping on and off to help out for a couple days. And among the dead were, these two guys named Arthur and Max. They were the great der kicks brothers. They were a strongman act, and Jenny Ward Todd of the flying wards. So an acrobat and strongman. They know those people died. they are all buried in woodlawn, cemetery in Forest park, Illinois, the one where that my ancestors are buried in as well, in a place called the showman's breast. So because they couldn't, identify them, some of them are buried, in a mass grave. Some of the other ones are in individual plots called unknown male or unknown unknown female. One grave is marked smiley and one is marked baldy. So just like circus people. And one is a four horse driver. So it's like we knew this guy was a driver somehow, but we don't know his name, you know?
>> Farz: Yeah, no, no human resources whatsoever.
>> Taylor: Yeah, yeah. They were buried five days after the crash. So showman's rest at, ah, Woodlawn cemetery is not the only showman's rest in America. Like, it's a place specifically for, like, circus traveling performers. It was actually bought by buffalo Bill Cody and the showman's league of America a couple years before this, as a place to bury, circus performers and traveling performers, because they don't necessarily have a home, you know?
>> Farz: Okay, I guess that makes sense.
>> Taylor: around showman's rest, there are four elephant statues, but there are no animals buried there. I'm sure animals died in the crash, but no animals are buried there. people would say that, they can hear the lions and the elephants screaming in the middle of the night, but they probably can because also next to a zoo, so it's probably the zoo animals, like, roaring in the middle of the night, you know, which would still be scary as shit if you're in a cemetery where circus people are buried.
>> Farz: Yeah, it's all just bad. Yeah, it's all creepy.
>> Taylor: so only two performances of the circus were canceled. the one, in Hammond and then another one. And then the Ringling brothers, Barnum and Bailey lent them performers and equipment so that they could keep going. So, by the 1930s, though, the show had been sold, to Barnum and Bailey, Ringling brothers, and eventually, they kind of be sold for parts during the Great Depression. There should be a little bit of it because obviously it's like still exists. But this was like a bad time for it. So that was kind of like in the aftermath of this, things got kind of sold for parts, during the depression, and that's it.
>> Farz: Is there a long story? Is the sounds, in the graveyard the ghost story part of this?
>> Taylor: No, I have another one.
>> Farz: Whoa. Okay.
Do you have any questions about circus train? Um. No, go ahead
>> Taylor: Do you have any questions about circus train?
>> Farz: no. This here's, here's what's interesting is like, that actually. Like, no part of that is really that surprising because I still remember when, I want to say it was like 2006, 2008, whatever it was in the DC metro area when the two metro cars collided and that was, that was like just computer, failure. Right? Like it was like. Yeah, a relay switch didn't flip when it should have because of disrepair and a bunch of people died. They call it telescoping, which I remember.
>> Taylor: Because, you know what it reminds me of is remember in the, society of the snow movie when they crack, the plane crashes and the front of the plane, everybody gets smushed together.
>> Farz: Yep.
>> Taylor: And it's like legs breaking and like bones cracking and this is like terrible.
>> Farz: So, so that it's, it's so weird you said that because it literally just like two days ago we listened to the, to the, the episode on last podcast about that. But actually that's not what telescoping is. What telescoping actually is with trains is when a train rear ends at full speed, another train. One train goes inside the other train.
>> Taylor: Oh no.
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: Oh God.
>> Farz: Really bad. Really bad. Because. Because again, like the forces you're dealing with are just like 35 mph. Not that big of a deal. Like most, most people would survive a 35 miles per hour car accident. But if a train hit you at 35 mph.
>> Taylor: Yeah, it's just so. It's just like big and heavy. My uncle worked on the, he was a lawyer and he said that he, when I moved to LA, he called me and he was like, don't go on the subway in LA. It's not safe. And I was like, I have to, but thank you for your concern. But he was like, something's gonna go wrong. Like, it's going. Something bad's gonna happen. Because he said he, like, worked on it and he like, it's not great. I was like, what we're gonna do?
>> Farz: I mean, it's all, it's all risk. It's funny because I felt the same way when I was in New York City and was like, I don't want to be here. Like, there's something really weird about being this underground, all these giant buildings and people above us. Like, I don't know, it just feels really creepy.
>> Taylor: That's interesting. I feel like I never thought about the buildings on top of me and I would have, it would have freaked out.
>> Farz: What was, what's that one? Part of the ride. So when I was there for the US Open, when you come from Meadowlands back into Manhattan, it gets super hot. And then like, somebody explained to me that, oh, we're going super deep because we're going under the river. Water. River. Yeah.
>> Farz: That's so scary.
>> Taylor: Is that scary? No, that is so scary. I don't like being like, remember that movie, that, like, stupid movie with celestial Stallone?
>> Farz: Don't ever call it a stupid movie. But yes, go ahead.
>> Taylor: It's too bad about the tunnel when, like, the Holland Tunnel collapses in New York. No, it's like Sebastian Stallone. Like, I think.
>> Farz: I don't know this one.
>> Taylor: tunnel movie, daylight. And from 1996, it's him and vigil Morrison is in it. and then a couple other. I don't know if the only person I know from this, but it's, where the Holland tunnel collapses while they're in it and they have to get out. And like you said, it's getting hotter and it starts leaking water and it's very, very scary. And I get scared when I'm in those, those big tunnels under the water. I don't love that.
>> Farz: Yeah, I'm not a big fan. I.
Your story reminded me of how far we've come in treating animals
Your story also reminded me that I spent a weird amount of time researching the COVID Remember the COVID Mm
>> Taylor: The dolphin movie?
>> Farz: Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And it just reminded me of, like, man, we are, we are so far from where we were as humans in terms of how we treat animals. Like God, thank God. We, like, are. I mean, hopefully we keep progressing on that track, but, like, this stuff really, really, like, it upsets me.
>> Taylor: Yeah, no, I think that. I think that we will. I was in the coliseum in Rome, and, like, one of the people I was with, she was like, can you believe how many animals died here? And how sad that is? Another person was like, people died here, and then they both look really mad at each other. It was so funny. And I was like, okay, guys, I'm all.
>> Farz: I'm always so. Me and you disagree on this. I always come down on the side of the animal. The people can kind of understand the paradigms of society that are constructed around them. Whereas, like, a baboon you kidnap from, like, Africa and stuff into a cage to, like, do tricks has no concept of what it got itself into. It didn't get itself into anything. It just happened to it.
>> Taylor: I mean, I kind of feel bad for a Christian who's eaten by a lionesse.
>> Farz: What did the Christian do to get eaten by the line?
>> Taylor: Probably something annoying.
>> Farz: Yeah, it was probably, like, just trying to convert children. You're like, leave the children alone. Just live your life.
>> Taylor: Maybe, maybe. Maybe on that side, I'm pro animals. No, I'm not pro Christian. So maybe I'm pro animal. And that you found it. That's my one.
Since the 1930s, there is a ghost named Resurrection Mary
okay, I have one more ghost story.
>> Farz: Let's hear it.
>> Taylor: So, and it's told differently by my father and by the Internet, but it's the same story, that you hear about, like, a woman dressed in white on the side of the freeway or the side of the street. So, since the 1930s, there is a ghost named Resurrection Mary. And her story is that she would find a man at a dance hall. The old Willowbrook ballroom in Chicago was one of the ones. And they would dance all night. And then she would ask for a ride home. And while they're stopped next to the resurrection cemetery, she would jump out of the car and run into the cemetery and disappear. And he would, like, never see her again. some say that she was a girl named Mary Bregovie who died in a car crash in 1934. There's also a woman named Anna Marjan orcas who died in a car accident while returning from a dance in 1927. So maybe it's some of them. And they see her on the road or clutching the gates of the cemetery as you drive by in the middle of the night, which, like, I hate that, like, those ghost stories where it's like, all of a sudden there's, like, a woman in the back of your car or, like, on, like, a dark road, you know? Or, like, you see one, and then. And you drive past her, and then you look in your mirror and she's not there. You know, like that. The way that my dad told that same story was it was the melody mill ballroom and it was Woodlawn Cemetery. The one where the circus, people are buried. but in that story, the girl is actually the daughter of the caretaker of the cemetery. And that explains why she runs in there.
>> Farz: All right, well, then that explains it.
Haunting of Hill House was on Netflix. Yeah. I watched it twice. It was so scary
Hey, you brought up house on Haunted Hill.
>> Taylor: Hm? Haunting of Hill House, the tv show?
>> Farz: Yeah, the one that was on Netflix.
>> Taylor: Yeah. Yeah. Which one was that one that was a haunting? The haunting of Hill house.
>> Farz: Hill house, yeah, yeah, that's what it was. Yeah. Okay. Yeah. Blind house came after that. Never mind. Okay. Yeah. So in that one, the part of it that is, like, embedded in my brain is when the two siblings are driving, it's like the middle of the day. So you don't expect to happen. Yeah, exactly. Everybody knows exactly what I'm talking about. And then they look at the rear view mirror and that thing just pops out. And, like, if they drive into the ditch that is still in my brain. Like, I still remember that.
>> Taylor: I, was. It was so scary. I read afterwards that, like, the two in the front didn't know when it was gonna happen. And she did it, like, early, you know, so, like, they were, like, genuinely fucking terrific.
>> Farz: It's because it was in the middle of the day and you're like, what's gonna happen? Like, all the creepy stuff just happened and then the setup was like, you expect a lull in the creep factor and then just pop down. You're like, oh, my God. I mean, that is.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: Ah, great show, great show, great show.
>> Taylor: I watched it twice. Second time, I fast forwarded through all of the, like, family drama. Like, I don't care about the kid on drugs.
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: Give a shit about, like, that one guy who, like, doesn't like his wife. I don't care. You know, I want to see ghosts, Taylor.
Craig Nelson: Can we just have movies be good?
>> Farz: So, like, here's why I suck at movies and why I can't watch movies anymore. Cause it's always predictable. It's like there's some protagonists, there's a, what man or woman they're into. They do their main quest. And the side quests this loves. It's like, can we just, like, have movies be good? Like, it just, like, cut out the. Not. Like, we don't have to have, like, love stories in every movie. I wanted to go see Twister this weekend or twisters, because I love the first twister. I saw it several times and I want to go see it. I was like, you know what, man? Like, there's gonna be at least 30, 40 minutes of filler in this where it's just gonna be like, some side plot love quest. And we gotta, like, I gotta, like, sit there and I give a shit about.
>> Taylor: Yeah, no, that's stupid. I don't care. I don't want that.
>> Farz: Have empty lives, people.
>> Taylor: It's better. Yeah. I want to talk about twisters. but I do. I have read the original haunting of Hill House book by Shirley Jackson several times. And it is good every single time.
>> Farz: I'm sure. I'm sure. Sweet. Well, we learned a lot about circuses. We learned a lot about animal rights, which you didn't intend to teach us on, but here we are. so thank you for sharing.
>> Taylor: You are welcome. Thank you for listening.
>> Farz: I've never seen any of the poltergeists.
>> Taylor: What? No way. Yeah, they are. I mean, the first poltergeist is so good. I just. You have to watch it. You have to watch it tonight.
>> Farz: They remade it, didn't they?
>> Taylor: They're like, the old one is the first watch. The original one with coach. It's so good. And, you know, there are,
>> Farz: It's Craig Nelson.
>> Taylor: Yeah. Yeah. You know, you knew who I meant. there are parts of it that are so, like, they're so scary that I get scared of thinking about them, like, right now. And I watched it when I was, like, way too young to watch it. And it is. I watched it in the past five years with Jay and Juan. And it's good every single time. There's, like, a part where you think you're done and you're not done. And every time I think, oh, the movie's over. And I'm like, it's so good.
>> Farz: Sweet. All right, well, recommendation.
>> Taylor: Cool.
Taylor: Do you have any listeners? Uh, commentary
>> Farz: Do you have any listeners? commentary? I do.
>> Taylor: I have some stuff that my friend Morgan sent me, in response to your episode, and. Hold on. I'm trying to find it in my. In my text messages, but, so she sent me a couple things to follow up. I was not ready for this. I should have been. Oh, she said we to make sure we're watching, the Paralympics volleyball because they do it sitting down. So I definitely can't wait to do that. I'm not even sure that's happening yet, but I will watch it. and, so she also talked about. Oh, she has something about Peter Thiel that I'll send you after your episode, I was with Pete buttigieg talking about him. So I'll send that to you because I continue to talk about Paypal. but the thing that she told me, that is the worst thing I've ever heard in my whole entire life is that. Did you realize that the Tesla model numbers are the Tesla x three, x, and y, which spell sexy?
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: Ew.
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: So, I've never thrown my mouth.
>> Farz: Hold on. yeah, because he was trying to do the model e, and then Ford filed an injunction because they created the model e anyways. Yeah, I knew that.
>> Taylor: Ew. That's all.
>> Farz: It's that big deal.
>> Taylor: It's something a four year old would do. Or, 13 year olds.
>> Farz: Anyway, I mean, I also ended the last episode by saying he literally went back and bought x.com, his company, from when he was, like, 22. I mean, he does, like, holding onto things.
>> Taylor: Yeah. Yeah. Cool.
>> Farz: Well, thank you for sharing, Taylor. And, thanks for writing in. And as always, please keep writing in@dunafellpodmail.com. find us on the socials pod and let us know. if you all want me to keep. Restart doing the introductions instead of Taylor.
>> Taylor: Please do let us know. We'd love to know. And we also want to remind you that we don't have commercials. So.
>> Farz: So we're better than them.
>> Taylor: Come on, listen. While there's no commercials.
>> Farz: Yeah, exactly. I mean, we can always go back and put more commercial commercials in, but we're not gonna.
>> Taylor: I know. And we're not there yet, so we're not there yet. You can listen to so many hours of us talking without being interrupted by someone telling you that your house is going to get robbed or whatever, like you're bad at making dinner.
>> Farz: sweet. Well, thank you, Taylor. I'll join you again in a few days, and we'll go ahead and cut it off.