Let's hop back into Spooky Season with a very quick history of Witches! We'll talk about what makes a witch and about witch trials in Germany in the 1600s that led to thousands of burnings, specifically the Würtzburg Witch Trials. On the way there, we will talk about Salem, The Malleus Maleficarum (aka Hammer of Witches), and we will talk about how, between 2019 and 2019, more than 20,000 people were killed on suspicion of witchcraft. Again, you do you, just don't hurt people. As the judge in a 2010 murder case said - "The belief in witchcraft, however genuine, cannot excuse an assault to another person, let alone the killing of another human being." Agree to agree.
Let's hop back into Spooky Season with a very quick history of Witches! We'll talk about what makes a witch and about witch trials in Germany in the 1600s that led to thousands of burnings, specifically the Würtzburg Witch Trials. On the way there, we will talk about Salem, The Malleus Maleficarum (aka Hammer of Witches), and we will talk about how, between 2019 and 2019, more than 20,000 people were killed on suspicion of witchcraft.
Again, you do you, just don't hurt people. As the judge in a 2010 murder case said - "The belief in witchcraft, however genuine, cannot excuse an assault to another person, let alone the killing of another human being."
Agree to agree.
Sources:
Most witches are women, because witch hunts were all about persecuting the powerless
15 Mind-Blowing Things I Learned from Caliban and the Witch - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dd9N9DueMHs
Würzburg Witch Trials - Germany's Deadly 17th Century Witch Hunt - https://www.jahernandez.com/posts/wurzburg-witch-trials---germanys-deadly-17th-century-witch-hunt
The Witchcraft of Salem Village - https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/the-witchcraft-of-salem-village_shirley-jackson/431862/item/2016034/#edition=1934296&idiq=9702038
The Salem Witch Trials - A day by day chronicle of a community under siege - https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/the-salem-witch-trials-a-day-by-day-chronicle-of-a-community-under-siege_marilynne-k-roach/389116/item/10313529/
Ancient Mysteries: DARK HISTORY OF WITCHES
- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LiqFVEZZMso
Concept note on the Elimination of Harmful Practices related to Witchcraft Accusations and Ritual Killings - https://www.ohchr.org/en/documents/tools-and-resources/concept-note-elimination-harmful-practices-related-witchcraft
Child witchcraft claims increasing as ‘hidden crime’ is investigated -
Hi Friends! Our transcripts aren't perfect, but I wanted to make sure you had something - if you'd like an edited transcript, I'd be happy to prioritize one for you - please email doomedtofailpod@gmail.com - Thanks! - Taylor
Taylor: Life has been kind of nuts lately. I'm coping. Welcome back, Taylor
>> Taylor: In the matter of the people of the state of California v. Orenthal James Simpson, case number ba zero nine six.
>> Farz: And so, my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you.
>> Taylor: Ask what you can do for your country.
>> Farz: Welcome back, Taylor. How are you?
>> Taylor: Good, how are you?
>> Farz: I'm coping. I'm okay.
>> Taylor: Good.
>> Farz: I'm coping. There's a lot going on. Life has been kind of nuts lately. as some of our listeners might know, we took a little one week break, and we've been traveling and doing all the things, and so now we're back and excited. Excited to be back.
>> Taylor: Yes, I am excited to be back. Yeah, I know I had terrible Internet where I was traveling, and then it wouldn't have mattered because the Internet at my house was out all that day anyway, and it was just a whole thing. So thank you for letting us move this to another time.
>> Farz: Thank you, audience, all 15,000 million of you.
>> Taylor: Thank you.
>> Farz: Thank you, sweetheart.
Taylor Bars: We have 15 million downloads on doomed to fail
Do you want to introduce us?
>> Taylor: Yes. Hello, 15 million of you. Welcome, to doomed to fail, where the podcast that brings you history's most notorious disasters and epic failures twice a week, most weeks, like 99% of the week. And I am Taylor, joined by farce.
>> Farz: We actually have a pretty consistent track record, as opposed to, like, the fact that if you really. What's that old saying? If you want to go fast, go alone, if you want to go far, go with somebody else. And, like, this is like, a really good testament to that, because. But for the accountability that we have to each other. If it was me doing this, I would have gone, like, four episodes in and be like, I'm kind of tired. I'll start again next month. But, like, you know, we keep each other, we keep on a schedule.
>> Taylor: We do. I am, I am surprised and impressed at how long we've done this.
>> Farz: Yeah. And it's. I mean, the numbers are growing, which is a good sign.
>> Taylor: Yeah. we hit, 20, 2000 downloads this week.
>> Farz: We can't reveal our actual numbers, Taylor.
>> Taylor: Whatever. I still think that's good. I mean, we're not, like, I definitely see things and they're like, we have 10 million downloads, and I'm like, what are you talking about?
>> Farz: But still, I know I was. I have, like, my favorite, comedy show. It's every Monday, it's called Kill Tony. And, it's. I looked at the, like, the latest, the latest one that was released was like 3.2 million views. Like a week.
>> Taylor: What? How?
>> Farz: I mean, it's pretty famous at this point, but but again, like, that's another example of, I mean, that that show started twelve years ago at the comedy store in Hollywood and there was like three people there. And now you can't buy tickets to it because they're sold out like months in advance. I mean, that's just how this stuff goes. So, yeah, we'll get there. We'll get to those numbers. Yep. Only, yeah, only eight more years and we'll be there.
>> Taylor: Sweet.
>> Farz: So what are we, who am I going first today? Are you or does it matter?
>> Taylor: I am. It doesn't matter. I can go.
>> Farz: Yeah, that's. Go for it.
>> Taylor: cool. also, it's Florence's birthday. She's ten today. Did you see?
>> Farz: No way.
>> Taylor: That's my daughter for folks. And it's wild. Bars knew me before I even had one baby.
>> Farz: I know one of them is ten.
>> Taylor: Isn't that crazy?
>> Farz: It is kind of crazy. You know what's crazy is I was thinking about that because I was like, looking at my hairline, I was like, man, this thing's not doing good. This is just, I'm not winning this going down.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: But then also I was like, you know what, though? Like, you're 40. Like, this is what happens. Like, it's, it's fine. Like, get, accustomed to the fact that I'm old, older, and, then, you know, be different if I was like 17 with this hairline. But now it's like, okay, finally, just let's live with it. It is what it is, so it's fine.
>> Taylor: Growing old is a privilege. It means you didn't die.
>> Farz: Yeah, no kidding.
>> Taylor: Here we go. so good for us that we're still alive after all this time.
>> Farz: Who would have thought?
>> Taylor: Yeah. cool. I am happy to start. So I have been doing like a lot of scary movie watching and like, spooky stuff. And I was going to do some, like, I don't know, I couldn't, I couldn't figure out exactly what I wanted to do, to be spooky, so I wanted to.
Taylor: Google Docs now have tabs for outline creation
Well, wait, first, before I start, did you. Do you do your outlines in Google Docs, right?
>> Farz: Yes.
>> Taylor: Did you see that they have tabs now in Google Docs?
>> Farz: No, I wasn't paying attention.
>> Taylor: Oh, my God. This is something that I have been waiting for us. You can have like several docs and like one link, you know, I don't know, I just, it's very helpful to my brain.
>> Farz: So, so here's, here's, here's the thing, Taylor. Like, I actually don't even look up and drive my docs anymore. If you just start typing the name of the doc in the search bar.
>> Taylor: Oh, yeah, yeah.
>> Farz: Okay.
>> Taylor: No, I know.
>> Farz: Okay.
>> Taylor: Yeah, I know. I'm just saying there's a new feature in them in any way. It's lovely. Another, the last big feature was when they, like, made it so you can just chip a link. It, like, saves hours of my life.
>> Farz: Oh, yeah, look at that. Okay, I'm seeing it now. Nice.
>> Taylor: You know what I mean? anyway, so I'm only telling you that because my outline is in m two tabs, and it's just, like, all I've ever wanted because I have so many sources, and I don't, I don't even know what to do. I feel like I'm wrong with my own library for this. I'm not gonna make you guess. I'm just gonna tell you. Okay, cool.
Taylor: I want to talk about the classic Salem witch trials
I want to talk about witches.
>> Farz: Sweet.
>> Taylor: A couple witch trials in particular. And then also just, like, a little bit on, like, what a witch is, where they came from, and then some stuff is happening right now that has to do with witches as well. and so I was going to do, like, the classic Salem witch trials. but I feel like you would be like, everybody knows what that is, Taylor. And then I also felt that way after I was readdevdeze doing it, because, like, I obviously know have already read a ton about it, and so have you.
>> Farz: Didn't we also cover part of this.
>> Taylor: Read, as in, like, you know a lot about it? We covered, we met some of our main characters when we talked about, Thomas Horton, I think, William Bradford in Salem ish, Massachusetts.
>> Farz: Okay. sounds familiar.
>> Taylor: A while ago, so we did a little bit, but, I do want to just touch on them a little bit. And if you were, if you could see me, I know we have our cameras off. I have, like, a thousand books here in a pile. But I, do want to make some suggestions if you do want to learn about the Salem witch trials, and I feel like you should, it's definitely super fun and very interesting. I don't read, there's a book called the suspicion, betrayal, and hysteria in 1692, and I read it in when it came out because I was excited about it. It came out in 2016, and I can't find my review on Amazon, but I'm pretty sure I called it barely readable. It's like a really bad book, so don't read that one. but I do have, from. Obviously, I listened to the last podcast one on the witch trials. And I have a book that's the Salem Witch trials day by day chronicle of a community under siege by Marilyn Roach. And the last podcast guys interviewed her as well. She's lovely. And it really is like, minute by minute, what happened. so if you really want to get into the details, you can do that. and then also if you really just want to know more about it, there's a Shirley Jackson, and Shirley Jackson is my favorite author. but she wrote like, a young adult short book on it, just the witchcraft of Salem Village. So that's really where you should go if you want to know what went.
>> Farz: On, you know, and the recommendation of last podcast, of course.
>> Taylor: And the last podcast one is really good as well. They definitely talk about how, like, it's not. So it's not. It's not the devil, obviously. And it's not ergot, the thing in the wheat that maybe made them crazy. It's not any of those things. It really is. it's a story of girls who are bored and they have a wild imagination because religion at this time specifically. And we'll talk about some more examples. Like, they're talking about the devil as like a very physical thing, you know, like, he can come to your house and make your daughter do stuff, you know, so they, they have that. They have that background, but they mostly are just like, bored and want attention. we also get the, the mathers who have talked about cotton and increase. I think I mentioned them because I love those names so much.
>> Farz: You did. You did. I remember that, yeah.
>> Taylor: Increase Mather. but I do want to put a pin in that, which is a witchcraft joke because I put pins in people.
People involved in Salem wrote an apology in 1696
I do want to read an apology that the people involved in Salem wrote in 1696. this is from Shirley Jackson's book, but, the jurors, some of the jurors wrote, ah, quote, we do therefore hereby signify to all in general and to the surviving sufferers in special, our deep sense of and sorrow for our errors and acting on such evidence, to the condemning of any person, and do hereby declare that we justly fear that we were sadly deluded and mistaken. We do heartily ask forgiveness of you all whom we have justly offended and do desire according to our present minds. We would none of us do such things again on such grounds for the whole world, praying you to accept of this in way of satisfaction for our offense, and that you would bless the inheritance of the lord, that he may be entreated for the land. So, like, they're like, yeah, no, that was crazy.
>> Farz: I mean, we're sorry. It's not going to go very far for the people that were drowned.
>> Taylor: yeah, no, they were all. They were all hanged in Salem, but, yeah, no, 100%. Like, did they drown?
>> Farz: I thought there was, like, a. Wasn't a chair thing. A Salem. Salem witch?
>> Taylor: No, I don't think that. I don't think that happened there. I think mostly they were hanged, but, there is drowning, and there's a lot of torture in this story in general, about witches.
I did a little research on what are witches, and I'm cool if you're
but I want to talk about witches in general. And then two things that happened right before Salem in Germany that have a way higher death toll. and so I did a little research on what are witches, and I'm cool if you're a witch. I also, like, went through a weird phase where I bought some, like, spell books, you know, that makes you feel better again. Like, do whatever you want. You know what I mean? I know you're holding a crystal right now, and that's fine.
>> Farz: You're specifically talking to me, right?
>> Taylor: I'm talking to you. Yeah.
>> Farz: I know.
>> Taylor: You're, like, flushing your upside down cross and a crystal necklace that you're wearing, and, like, that's fine if that makes you feel better. and if you want to, like, have herbs and, like, do spells and, like, I'll stage a place, you know, just to make myself feel better. And, like, all of that, I love. If you want to do any of those things, definitely do it. and then I was also thinking, like, what, you know, where do we get the concept of a witch from? Also, like, what other things happened to witches and people who are accused of witches that I hadn't even, like, thought of before. So we were watching a scary movie. We've watched scary movies pretty often in October with our friend Jay, and one of them that we watched that is not very good, and it's from the seventies. It's called blood on Satan's claw, and it's from the 1970s, but it's, going back to a puritanical time in England where there's serfs and there's all these people caught up in witchcraft, and they are. It's, like, very. It's a very ridiculous film. But, in that one and then another one called Hagazuza. Have you seen that one? Hagazuza?
>> Farz: No. I will say this one looks awesome, though. Blood on scenes.
>> Taylor: I mean, it's a vibe. but in both of them, they are. There's a scene with sexual assault. And I was like, right, like, how much sexual assault was also involved in this? You know, when you have, like, people in jail and people who are, like, being tortured and all these things. So I'm like, what is the history of that? and then someone in our scary movie group suggested that I read a book called Caliban and the Witch, which I didn't have a chance to read it because it's like a pretty dense, academic book about witches, and it ties it into feminism and capitalism. But I did watch a YouTube video of someone summarizing it, so I'm going to put those things on as well. and then I watched this. Like, obviously we've talked about how the History channel is, like, not a reputable source on history, but there's a, ah, show I watched called, about which history. It was narrated by Leonard Nimoy. So it's pretty awesome. And, there's a woman in the History channel thing that I watched who keeps referencing the human community. So she's like, well, the human community thinks this is about witches. And I'm like, what other community is there?
>> Farz: It sounds like something people that we.
>> Taylor: Knew in LA would say, like, oh, okay. So what is the other community, ma'am? But anyway, I thought that was delightful.
Um, so I want to talk about the 1516 hundreds in the US
so I want to talk about the 1516 hundreds kind of in the US and in Europe, about, when people started to, like, really kind of get riled up in this, like, witch trial and witch hunt things. So again, reminder, it's been nearly impossible to be alive for most of time. Just like, everything's terrible.
>> Farz: I mean. Yeah. Ah, like what you just said, we're lucky we're in our forties because 300 years ago, 400 years ago, that's. That wasn't a given.
>> Taylor: Exactly. I'm lucky I didn't. I'm lucky that I have two children and I have not died having my child. Yeah, exactly. Like at 26. Like, yes, very, very lucky that all of that's happened. but to go even further back, before Christianity and other monotheistic religions, there were a ton of female goddesses. And this is like, if I could quit my job right now and write a book about this, I probably would because so much. But then all of a sudden, there was, like, one God, and that God was a man. So the church started to do things like regulate women, regulate sex, blame women for all sorts of things. And in around the 15 hundreds in Europe, they started to do things like clothes, brothels, and really start to regulate sex work in a way that they hadn't ever really done before. And they, started to do things like make the land into parcels and do things like have a lord and a bunch of serfs underneath that guy, where you really had to work a lot harder than you did before when you were working more in a community. And, there are people who were the heretics, and the heretics are really people who were trying for a free, equal society. They didn't want people to accumulate wealth. A part of that. A part of. And, this is like from Caliban and the witch. That book is that if you were using magic, quote unquote magic, to do things, then you were getting what you wanted without work. And that was not okay. So that's one of the thesis that is in that book. Theses in that book is like, they wanted to. The idea of being able to magically get something was against, like, capitalism. Does that make sense? I think that's kind of where.
>> Farz: I mean, sort of. I don't think capitalism as a concept was a thing.
>> Taylor: Yes, I'm saying it is. Then it's starting to be at this time.
>> Farz: Okay. Got it.
>> Taylor: For, like, the first time, you know.
Women were a lot of the first doctors because they were gathering herbs
so as far as, like, women went and doctors, I think we've talked about this a lot where, like, you know, you don't know anything about the human body until, like, two days ago, you know, and, like, still, we barely knew anything. And women were a lot of the first doctors because they were like, you know, gathering herbs and, like, seeing what. What could help people and what couldn't. they were also around to, you know, help people have babies. And you could be a midwife, and you could be, like, an older woman who your family is like, your children are grown or dead or whatever. Your husband's dead. You live by yourself, and you make a little bit of money by being a midwife, you know, or you get, like, food or get taken care of. So you go around and you help people have babies, and you can have, like, a hundred great births, and then, like, one baby could die, and then they would blame you, you know. like, really, you're doing, like, how could, you know, babies die now, and we have hospitals, you know, but they would be like, she's a witch because of that. and that makes things kind of feel kind of scary and out of control. And there were men who were accused of being witches, but for the majority of it is witches. and then in the 14 hundreds in Europe, there is a treatise that becomes law that is called the malleus maleficarum. Malleus maleficarum, which means hammer of witches, which is like a law on how to find a witch and how to persecute a witch. And it's an awesome name. And what it sort of says, is. And this was like a book. It was like a book that was like printed or copied. I can't remember when we started printing books, but like, sent around so people could find witches. And the idea was witches are real because, Satan is real. So Satan must have people on earth that are doing his bidding. And those are the witches. And witches do recruiting on behalf of Satan. And they're mostly women because women are easily manipulated and they are, quote, defective. All the powers of both soul and body. So that was the first part of the book. Other things that is said that the, that witches would do. they would have a pact with the devil. they would have sexual relations with the devil. They would be able to fly for the purpose of attending big assemblies presided over by Satan itself. And that's like, you've seen the witch, right?
>> Farz: Oh, yeah.
>> Taylor: Like the end of the witch, you know, where they're like naked in the woods.
>> Farz: That was an awesome, awesome movie.
>> Taylor: So good, so good. So, like, that's what people are believing is true, you know? Also, witches do the practice of maleficent magic and the slaughter of babies. So if you were someone who was around dead babies because you were a nurse or a midwife, in whatever way that meant, then that put you higher on the list of potentially being a witch. You know, I feel like all of.
>> Farz: This is just sort of rooted and people are just bored and have nothing but misery around them.
>> Taylor: Absolutely. Absolutely. No, I mean, that's exciting. I think if you're like, could there be witches here?
>> Farz: You know, of course it would be. M my first thing when you said that was like, did somebody see something? And then that's because, you know, what it reminded me of was we keep referencing last podcast, like the episode they did on the black plague and how like one in one of these towns and from forever, like 13 hundreds, whatever, there was like, there's a large jewish population, and then like a christian boy was killed, was killed, and they just made up. They're like, okay, so the kid is dead. There's a lot of Jews here. Jews must be killing kids. And then it morphs into. Then they do this for the Sabbath, like, every weekend. And it's done to, you know, like, it goes from one to the next, the next, the next, and just pile on thing after thing after thing.
>> Taylor: Exactly. And, like we mentioned the other day, like, and then all of a sudden, like, Hillary Clinton's drinking baby blood at a pizza hut.
>> Farz: Yeah, like, I know it sounds crazy, but it kind of makes sense. Like, if you get one thing, if you knit, if you start with one thing, and then, like, you believe it. Yeah, yeah, if you believe it. Exactly.
>> Taylor: Exactly. No, totally. If you're like. If you are, like, I believe this. I believe this is a physical thing. The devil is a physical person. You know, everything that's bad, that's happening. And, like, we'll see. In the one particular story I'm going to tell you, like, the crops all died one year, you know, so, like, that affects everybody. So you're like, who can we blame for this?
>> Farz: You know, it's, like, kind of rational.
>> Taylor: If you don't. If you have to, you have to do something to be like, how do I live through this?
>> Farz: Yeah, yeah.
>> Taylor: You know, like, in every way.
Thousands of people were burned for witchcraft in Europe between 1517 and 1618
so the book also, the malleus maleficarium also has how to prosecute a witch. so this is kind of what you're talking about with the chair and the water, you know, like, throwing them in the water. If they swim, they're a witch. If they drown, then they're not. You're like, but they're dead.
>> Farz: Right, right.
>> Taylor: They would, Like, women who didn't cry while they were, in trial were automatically believed to be witches because they didn't have enough, emotion during the trial. In Salem in particular, anyone who confessed to being a witch was not killed. The people who were killed were the people who would not confess. Yeah. there's also a lot of torture, so there's a lot of things that you can imagine. But smashing of bones was a big one, like a thumb screw, where they would put your thumb in kind of like a press, and just, like, press your thumb until your bones cracked. and they do that with bones all over your body. They would do things where they would lay people on, on beds and, like, smash their feet. Kind of like misery, I think. you know what I mean?
>> Farz: Oh, yeah. Worst scene ever.
>> Taylor: Yeah. In the book, she chops off his feet with an axe.
>> Farz: I don't know. The movie seem. I feel like the movie's more brutal.
>> Taylor: I think so, too. I think so, too. and then, Oh, they would do a thing where they would, like, tie your wrists behind your back and drop you by your wrist so your arms would go out of socket that you hang there. Just like, terrible things to torture people.
>> Farz: Again, these are all signs of an m incredibly bored populace with way.
>> Taylor: Too much time and being able to do that. There's also that just reminded me, you saying that there's a Dan Carlin on pain fotainment, which is about people going to watch these hangings and going to watch people be guillotined, and just how violent, how that mass violence was something you would bring a picnic to.
>> Farz: So crazy, you know.
>> Taylor: so again, there's a little bit of background. So I am, kind of just setting the stage like the pre salem in Europe, there are, witch trials that are going to happen and some examples and just some numbers. So thousands of people were burned for witchcraft in Europe between 1517 hundred. they were burned in Europe rather than being hanged like they were in Salem. And I think that there's a couple reasons that people were doing it that way. Like to make sure the devil doesn't have a body to come back to, so other witches couldn't take their body parts and do spells with them. All sorts of reasons that they would do it. and it kind of starts after. And again, this is like if you were in 7th grade, this is like a very terrible lecture about the Protestant Reformation right now. But in 1517, Martin Luther thesis, Protestant Reformation. and 100 years after that, in 1618, starts the 30 years war in the middle of Europe. The 30 years war is specifically between Protestants and Catholics. And it's like you have to be one or the other, and you have to fight the other one, and everyone's upset, and everyone's worried because it's very violent. And, I it's just like very. They're both like, I'm right, I'm right, of course. Just like people fighting over the same God.
The witch trials started in Wurzburg, Germany, in 1626
And, the story I want to tell you about is about the witch trials in Wurzburg, Germany, which is right in the middle of Germany. and Wurzburg was a town, an area that was, very Catholic. So they picked Catholicism on the side of Catholics versus protestants. And so that meant everybody needed to be Catholic. and the people were, again, like, really nervous. And so in, between 1612 and 1617, 350 people, were burned by the bishop Julius ector von Meppelsbrunn. And, he kind of had. That was like a little mini witch hunt. And then after once a 30 years war started, the person in charge of Wurzburg was a man named Philip Adolf von Ehrenberg. And von Ehrenberg is, like, the bishop in charge. And it's 1626 and he's like, anyone who is not fully 1000% Catholic in Wurzburg. We need to root them out and we need to find them. So this is, like, also the counter reformation. So they're, like, against the reformation that Martin Luther did. And, like, very, very, like, we're doing the right thing because of God. And that year, 1626, there's a frost and the grape harvest fails, which could be a witch controlling the weather.
>> Farz: Right.
>> Taylor: You know? and it has very similar things that we heard in Salem that, like, is familiar to a lot of us. Like, neighbors are fighting. So if I'm like, oh, my neighbor fars, like, stole my pig, he must be a witch, you know? and you could just, like, are blaming other people. And the first people who were killed were poor women, of course. they would torture them. They would search for witch marks, which is like, if you had any birthmark or a weird mole that was supposed to be a place where the devil had touched you or nurse the devil. in the blood on Satan's claws, a girl has a witch mark and, oh, my gosh, they cut it off of her and it is like they're peeling off of a shitty prosthetic. It's so funny. It's so very. What did you just do? They did a bad job, but it was fun. again, anyone who confessed wasn't killed. and sometimes you could live by accusing someone else. So that happened a lot in Wurzburg. in the first year, 50 priests were killed. 50 children from the orphanage were burned because they were accused of having intercourse with the devil. And wild.
>> Farz: You know what's funny? You know what's funny is, as you're saying this, I'm like, none of this is surprising.
>> Taylor: I know. No, I know. Phillips nephew, von Ehrenberg's nephew himself, was killed, in the city, 219 people were burned. But outside, 900 people were executed for being suspicious, suspected of being a witch. about one third of the entire population was accused. So the Wikipedia has a list of all of the burned people, the people who died. And the list is like, the brushmaker's wife, a strange woman, a strange man, the old wife of the court rope maker. So it's never like, it's like, very few names, but it's like that weird old lady that lived down the street. She had to go, you know?
>> Farz: Yeah. I wonder if there was, like, a lot of, husbands who were like, I'm kind of over this.
>> Farz: Yeah, just. You remember. You remember? Yeah. So that was the thing with, whalers, too, like, when men would go whaling because they'd be gone for so long. And we were like, thank God. Just get out of here. Yeah, you're gonna die anyways.
>> Taylor: Or like, in, the mighty python where it's like the plague. But the guy's like, he's like, I'm not dead. And they're like, oh, he's gonna be dead soon. Just take him. You know, like, get him. Get him out of here. so finally in 1631, Philip von Ehrenberg died, and the swedish army came as part of 30 years war. And the swedish king was like, stop all of this. And he cut that out and they stopped it there. there were other towns in, Germany. One was in Bamberg, big witch trials from 1627 to 1632. It was very similar. 900 people were killed in those. that one got so contentious, they had to bring in the pope to be like, everybody calm down. You know? Because it was like, I think. I imagine that most of the people who were involved in accusing at some point must have been like, whoa, would this be getting out of hand? Even if they were like, I believe this with all my heart and soul. Like, it's gotta be a minute where you're like, we don't have anyone else to, you know, let's see.
>> Farz: Every. Every generation has to have, like, some reasonable or rational person in it, you know? And you just really hope you're not that one in any generation because you want to be a part of the mob. Because if you're rational, then you're targeted by the mob. So.
>> Taylor: For real?
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: If you were like, guys, there's no witches here, you would definitely be a witch. That's exactly what a witch would say.
>> Farz: This is how we're going to end up at the Capitol on next January 6.
>> Taylor: so I just wanted to tell you those, that mostly the Wurtzburg trials, just like, you know, thousands of people killed, as opposed to the handful that were killed in Salem. but we obviously talk about Salem all the time because it's like, in our culture, and it's like. It's like a fun, I don't know, fun story. There's, a comedian on Instagram. I'll find it. But he's like, he did a thing where he was like, I'm very pro Salem witch trials, because if they hadn't done it, like, they would have been overrun by butchers. You're like, I guess.
Between 2009 and 2019, at least 20,000 witches were killed globally
but something I didn't know and I learned in the millions and millions of things that I read for this, which is like just obviously the very, very snowflake on top of the iceberg. but I read a report from the United nations that between 2009 and 2019, at least 20,000 witches were killed across 60 countries. So this is still happening. It's very underreported because people don't talk about it. but the report is in a word doc, which is wild. You'd like download a word doc. But it had, ah, stats, that, like in Tanzania, in the older women were killed during that time, 20 women were killed. In Zimbabwe, lots, of children are abused because they are accused of being witches. so they're, They lock them in closets and tell them that they're a witch and don't feed them and beat them. 100 people were killed in Papua New guinea during this time. in Ghana, a thousand older women have been banished to witch camps, which are just terrible places where older women have to try to survive together. And this is happening right now, in places in Africa, people with albinism, so with skin pigment, are dug up because their body parts are said to be used in rituals to get rid of witchcraft. So they're like doing things like that. and one story that actually comes out of London is in 2010. There was a teenager named Christy Bamu, and he was, a refugee or from Africa. He lived in Paris and he was visiting his sister in London, with his siblings, and his sister was named Magali and her boyfriend Eric. They accused Christy of being a witch. She was just like a 15 year old boy. And, they accused the other two sisters of being a witch. But the two sisters, they confessed and said that they were witches. but Christie, he begged for his life. They tortured him with glass and pottery and broken tiles. They beat him and eventually drowned him in the bathtub during an exorcism. and this was, it was in 2010. And both his sister and his sister's boyfriend, this was just an outskirts of London, received up to 30 years in prison each. And the judge said, quote, the belief in witchcraft, however genuine, cannot excuse an assault to another person, let alone the killing of another human being.
>> Farz: What were they ethnically? What were they? They weren't like, obviously like local to London.
>> Taylor: No, they were. They were from, they were from Africa. And let me find out where he was from. Home, country.
>> Farz: Because this kind of plays into, like, this theory I've always had that they're from.
>> Taylor: They're from the Democratic Republic of Congo.
>> Farz: Yeah. So this kind of plays into this theory I've always had, which I, like, brought up one time in the context of the running of the bulls, where I had, like, friends from America who had gone there and witnessed it. And I think we have this perception in America of, like, we need to honor everybody's culture. And it's like, dude, fuck that shit. Like, that is a fucking. First off, the running of the bulls is bullshit. They should fucking be embarrassed of themselves for the fact that they do that to those animals. And the same holds true here. It's like, when I did my episode on honor killing, it was like, yeah, so I'm Middle Eastern. I can say this with impunity. Like, that is a stupid part of. I mean, not me and my family's culture. Like, a cultural thing that Middle Eastern people have done and do. And it's like, that's really dumb, and this is really dumb. And so, yeah, the secret, if you learn nothing else in this episode, just learn that you can totally disregard every culture.
>> Taylor: I don't know if that's exactly what I want. The thing.
>> Farz: Maybe not totally. Maybe not totally. Maybe we'll back it up a little bit.
>> Taylor: But, like, be. Be a, witch in a fun way. You know, have some herbs around. But, like, think, like, as judge said, like, if. If you're afraid that someone is a witch, like, just don't talk to them. Don't kill them, you know? Like, you should maybe talk to someone about your own fears of being followed by a witch because you're not being followed by a witch. I don't know.
>> Farz: Yeah, yeah. Like, if you're scared of witches and you live in Austin, go to Jarl and Sage.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: It's a great little store, and you'll be surrounded by, like, witchcraft stuff, and it's just the most innocuous, innocuous, innocent stuff, and you'll be fine. Everybody's gonna be fine.
>> Taylor: Everything's gonna be fine. Like, there's no. There's just. I mean, yeah, I don't know. I feel I didn't realize how people were still being like, oh, witches are following me around, you know, because we talk about Salem. Like, oh, my God, that was so long ago. And obviously, like, all the things, and, But, yeah, still happening.
>> Farz: Nuts. Nuts. I do recommend if you haven't seen the witch.
>> Taylor: Oh, my gosh, it's so good.
>> Farz: It's so moody. It's, like, the perfect movie for, like, it's dark out, light. Like, a candle, you know, hopefully it's cold out. You know what?
>> Taylor: You know what, I wish, like, I wish. Do you remember? This is very, very specific, but in the very beginning of the witch, when they're getting kicked out of town.
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: They, like, show you the town for a second and it's like, you know, the native Americans are, like, walking through the town and then, like, the people, everything's really gray and wet and just like, feels really oppressive and you only see it for like, a couple seconds. I'm like, I wish I could explore that more, you know?
>> Farz: It's moody. It's awesome. It's moody.
Good story. Fun for the, uh, time that we're in
It's so fun.
>> Taylor: It's really cool. Yeah.
>> Farz: Sweet. Well, nice recommendation. Good story. Fun story. Fun for the, time that we're in. And actually, my story that I'm going to cover this week also touches on some of the things you brought up, which is a fun little dovetail. but yeah, I think that's, all we got.
Our friend Morgan has actually been to Floriana island that you talked about
Do you have anything to read out in terms of listener mail?
>> Taylor: I do. I need to ask our friend Morgan if I can share her photos. But I sent them to you. They're. Our friend Morgan, who amazes me at all of her travels, has actually been to Floriana island that you talked about in your episode.
>> Farz: That was so cool. Yeah, Taylor sent me these pictures. I was like, hey, my friend has been there and she took a picture. I'm trying to find him now, but she. A picture of the post, the, mailbox thing, which was like, the guy.
>> Taylor: Who was her guide was the grandson of the kid that was born in the cave.
>> Farz: Yeah, isn't that wild?
>> Taylor: So funny.
>> Farz: So it makes sense because, like, I was talking then, like, the. Their family still is there. They are still the ones who literally run the entire island and the entire tourism industry there. It's so cool.
>> Taylor: What a delight.
>> Farz: Look at those little flamingos.
>> Taylor: That's so cool. I wonder if they smell as bad in real life as they do in zoos. Question for the community. Let us know, you know, when you're by the flamingos because they smell terrible. Write to us if you know dreamtifymail.com. find us on all social media.
>> Farz: Sweet. Anything else, Taylor?
>> Taylor: That's it. Thank you, thank you, thank you.
>> Farz: We'll go ahead and cut it.