Farz, in his infinite kindness, tries to calm the great American Anxiety (tm) and reminds us what we've been saying over and over. We just live in times. Not unprecedented times; there's a roadmap for all of this. He brings us back to the Y2K election (Taylor's first time voting!). Within the 'hanging chad' chaos in Florida, there was also the third-party candidate from the Reform Party, Pat Buchanan. Tune in to listen to Buchanan's platform and be reminded that history, as always, repeats.
Farz, in his infinite kindness, tries to calm the great American Anxiety (tm) and reminds us what we've been saying over and over. We just live in times. Not unprecedented times; there's a roadmap for all of this. He brings us back to the Y2K election (Taylor's first time voting!). Within the 'hanging chad' chaos in Florida, there was also the third-party candidate from the Reform Party, Pat Buchanan. Tune in to listen to Buchanan's platform and be reminded that history, as always, repeats.
Hi Friends! Our transcripts aren't perfect, but I wanted to make sure you had something - if you'd like an edited transcript, I'd be happy to prioritize one for you - please email doomedtofailpod@gmail.com - Thanks! - Taylor
Taylor Simpson says he has sonic ice at his house
>> Farz: In the matter of the people of.
>> Taylor: The State of California v. Orenthal James Simpson, case number BA097.
>> Farz: And so, my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.
>> Taylor: Don't say that.
>> Farz: Hey, Taylor.
>> Taylor: Hi. Look at this ice. I have. I have sonic ice at my house.
>> Farz: How does one obtain sonic ice at one's house?
>> Taylor: Just go to Sonic and ask for a bag of ice.
>> Farz: Really? They'll sell you their ice?
>> Farz: Oh, wow. Okay.
>> Taylor: Never knew I got it for Florence's birthday party was yesterday and I got it for her party and everybody was like, oh my God, you have sonic ice. I was like, yes, I had an extra bag. So I was like, I'm going to eat slash drink all this Sonic ice today by myself.
>> Farz: So good, so good. Very cool.
Doomed to Fail brings you history's most notorious disasters and epic failures
How, how's your week starting out?
>> Taylor: Good. Wait, let me introduce us.
>> Farz: Oh, yeah, right.
>> Taylor: Hello. Welcome to Doomed to Fail. We're the podcast that brings you history's most notorious disasters and epic failures twice a week, every week. I'm Taylor, joined by Fars.
>> Farz: I'm Fars, joined here by Taylor. And yeah, eager to get up and running and discuss some fun, fun topics, which I think today I go first.
Taylor: This topic plays into some of our themes very well
Is that right?
>> Taylor: Yes.
>> Farz: Okay. My topic, I don't even know what it's about. Like, I don't. Sorry, I know what it's about, but like, it doesn't actually play into our themes very well, but it plays into some of my experiences over the past weekend very, very well. That's why I thought I want to talk about it because it's also very topical thing to talk about. So I was just in Naples, Florida. and tell. Have you ever been to Naples?
>> Taylor: no. But my boss one time said something about a city and she goes, and I've been to Naples, Italy, like, saying that that was the worst place she'd ever been. And I was like, I also had a really terrible time in Naples, Italy.
>> Farz: Why?
>> Taylor: Like, it was just like, it was half. It was under construction, we were there, so there was like nothing to look at. And we had like really mediocre pizza at like a weird place. And it was just like, I was like, I hate it here.
>> Farz: Wait, Taylor, as an aside, so if people haven't been listening to us for a while, I did an episode like, I don't know, a year and a half ago about the Tote Family murders, which is like the most m. Disgusting murder that I've read about in a very, very long time. Taylor I went to Celebration.
>> Taylor: I know. You go to the house.
>> Farz: I drove by the house. I went through the backside and then the front and took pictures of both. I need to send you the pictures. But, like, I was just, like. I was like, people are going to look at me and they know what I'm doing. Like, I just felt like the eyes. Yeah, I felt like the eyes were on me, and I felt really guilty. Like, there was one guy on a motorcycle who seemed like you, like, circling me. Like, you just,
>> Taylor: You're not the only person to do that. People do that all the time.
>> Farz: I know. It doesn't make it any less distasteful.
>> Taylor: I know.
>> Farz: But I did take pictures, and I'll send those over to you. also, Taylor, Celebration is kind of lovely. It was kind of lovely.
>> Taylor: Have you seen Stepford Wives? That's the point.
>> Farz: No, I know, I know, but I'm saying, like, there's a difference between, like, when I see, like, an adult, like, our age with, like, a Disney tattoo, I'm like, there's something wrong with that person, you know?
>> Taylor: Yeah. Yeah.
>> Farz: And so I assume Celebration would just be full of those kinds of people. Like, it was, like, cool. It was hip. There was young people who were outside having, you know, little. Little cocktails with their families and friends, and it was like a cool, little bustling town. It was very idyllic. Cool. I think that's fine.
>> Taylor: It's just. Don't murder your family.
>> Farz: Just don't murder your family. Okay. And then go back and listen to the podcast.
I went to a grocery store in Naples that had pro-Trump signs everywhere
Anyway, so I was in Florida this weekend, and obviously in Orlando and Naples. Anyways, in Naples, I went to a grocery store that was kind of incredible. It was basically like if a Whole Foods also had several bars, a, half dozen restaurants, and, like, a nightclub.
>> Taylor: Inside of it was Italy.
>> Farz: No, it's called Sea to Table.
>> Taylor: Oh, fun.
>> Farz: You would not like it.
>> Taylor: Why not? I love getting a glass of wine and going grocery shopping.
>> Farz: So this. I'm not going to make this political, but this grocery store was the most pro maga, pro Trump grocery store. I. Not even grocery store. It was. It was the most political store I've ever walked into. It was everywhere. Like, you couldn't look in any single direction and not see something that was, like, pro Trump and anti Biden and Kamala.
>> Taylor: Like, selling it or just people wearing it?
>> Farz: No, I mean, selling it. They just had, like, food, right? Like, I mean, it was just, like, regular food. But, like, they would have, like, signs. Like, for example, they would have, like, where their Cafe was. They were like, we don't call it a cup of joe here. We'll call it something else. I forgot what they said. Like, it's like stuff like that.
>> Taylor: Sure.
>> Farz: and it was nuts. Like turns into a nightclub. It's like two floors. And like I went upstairs and I was walking around. There was like all these different people. It was, it was like the weirdest amalgamation of different types of people there in terms of like age. And some look like old, wealthy retirees and some were like 25 year olds. Like, it was like kind of everyone just hang out at this grocery store on like a Friday night. It was of kind of wild.
All these podcasts dovetail into my media diet while I was in Florida
and there's all kind of dovetailed into like my media diet, coincidentally. Like, I didn't do it deliberately. It just kind of coincidentally ended up happening. And it got my mind taking on a number of topics. So I was listening to in the middle of this trip, my go to shows. One is obviously the Ezra Klein shows, the biggest one that I keep talking about on this podcast. So he had just released entitled what's Wrong with Donald Trump? And then he also released like three days after that in an interview with Maggie Haberman. Do you know who that is?
>> Taylor: No.
>> Farz: Okay, I'll get into that. So that episode is called How Trump has Changed. And then coincidentally, the Joe Rogan podcast dropped with Trump and they talked for like basically three hours in this open ended format. That I listened to all this in the middle of this experience in Florida. And on the highest level, several things stood out to me that I'll break down by individual podcasts. One is Ezra Klein's kind of armchair psychological perspective on Trump about how he just lacks inhibitions and the fact that he's getting older and that he got shot has just like completely removed his ability to modulate himself and inhibit himself. Maggie Haberman is interesting because she's so good. Like, everything she says is like, that is. That is the universal source of truth. I think for anybody that wants to know anything about like Mega World or the Trump presidency or the campaigns, anything, she's been embedded since like 2015 and gets like exclusive interviews. Like, her take on anything related to this world is like what I trust 100%. She was talking about like the distinction between rhetoric and reality and how she was like, listen, there's some things that Trump for sure believes in that he says out loud. And the rest of the time I think he just says what the audience wants to hear and then he'll double down if he realizes going to get media Play. And then when he talked to Joe Rogan again, like Rogan being a stand up comedian, he also brought that up. He was on at one point he was like, hey, you're like kind of like a comedian. Like you hit on something and then you see, oh, this is working. And then just hit it again. And then you hit again. Then you keep hitting it over and over again. And that's kind of like where this like, it kind of started coming to me of like, oh, like what is this in this like rhetoric versus the reality aspect of what's going on with Magalan and Trump is. And then seemed like that kind of cross section was like, where did all this kind of come from? And what was the origination point? And it led me somewhere unexpected. And that's what I'm going to talk about today.
Mark Cuban touches on one micro aspect of the 2000 presidential election
>> Taylor: All right, let's do it.
>> Farz: A lot. This is a lot of setup. Okay. Again, you might be thinking that I'm doing an episode on Trump right now. I'm not. I'm going to touch on a twisted web that encapsulates the 2000 presidential election and the history that led to the outcome we ended up having.
>> Taylor: Oh, fun. That was my first election that I voted in.
>> Farz: 1.
>> Taylor: I voted absentee from Nevada in New York. And I had like a piece of paper and a piece of like Styrofoam and then I put paper on the Styrofoam and then punched my things and then mailed it back.
>> Farz: So if anybody's actually interested in the the 2000 presidential election, note that I'm going to be touching on like this one micro aspect of it because the whole covering the whole thing is going to be like, would be insane. It would take way too much time and effort. but I'm going to touch on one tiny bit of it because it's like, it just, I just had this like flash moment of like, oh my God, like it all, it all started making sense to me. So to brief recap for anybody who wasn't alive or didn't care or pay attention, basically this was a election between Bush versus Al Gore. the election day was November 7th. By November 8th, the margin between the two in Florida was narrow enough to trigger an automatic recount. Between November 9th to the 26th, both side kind of issued legal battles over the recount and what standards were being used to measure who voted for who. On December 12, the US Supreme Court stops the recount. On December 13, court concedes and Bush becomes president in January.
>> Taylor: So on December 13th?
>> Farz: Yes. Okay, so a little bit of background, about this tiny little part of this that's, like, super, super interesting and super prescient to, like, Modern Times in 1995. I feel like. I feel so old talking about this stuff right now.
>> Taylor: Not modern times.
>> Farz: It's so old. It is so old.
>> Taylor: I mean, yes, it was 20. Yes, it was 24 years ago, but also, like, not ancient history.
>> Farz: Okay, fine. We're young still. I'll give you that. We're young still.
>> Taylor: There were TVs. I don't know. Okay, keep going. It was electricity.
>> Farz: In 1995, a guy named Ross Perot formed the Reform Party. He did this after running for president in 1992. And despite having dropped out of the race before election day, he actually received 18% of the popular vote, which was the most any independent candidate had ever won before. At that time, he wasn't running on any party platform. He was literally an independent candidate.
>> Taylor: today at work, I made everyone watch the Phil Hartman when he was booking at the McDonald's.
>> Farz: That's one of the best. That is absolutely one of the best. When he starts eating everybody else's food.
>> Taylor: Oh, my God, I'm glad. He's like warlords intercepted by warlords. Did they take their chicken nuggets? Try not to laugh. It's so funny.
>> Farz: I also did an episode on Phil Hartman, so if you want to go listen to that as well. So anyways, he won 18% of the popular vote. He saw a viable pathway for a third party to run for president, so he founded the Reform Party and ran president against Bob Dole and Bill Clinton again in 1996. That time, he only won 8.4% of the popular vote. a little bit about the Reform Party itself. Like, the party platform is, like, kind of loosey goosey. Like, it's kind of like whatever the head of the party wants to make it. it's largely around fiscal responsibility, balancing the budget, a lot of campaign finance reform stuff, a lot of term limit stuff for Congress, a lot of tough on immigration positions. Overall, like, it actually is pretty good.
>> Taylor: Like, he's a. He's dead.
>> Farz: He did pros dead. Yeah.
>> Taylor: But, he was, like, a billionaire, right?
>> Farz: Yeah. He founded a company called EDS in Dallas, Texas, and we would. I remember when I was a kid, we drive by it and, like, that was kind of like a mythical place. Was like, this guy created this with, like, a $5,000 loan. And, like, he was like a. He's a. He's a whole he's like the original Mark Cuban, basically, in Texas. So going back to 1986, Clinton obviously wins, and the Reform Party is back to trying to sort out who it should run for president, going into the next presidential cycle.
Donald Trump's first foray into national Politics happened in 2000 as a Reform Party candidate
So, Taylor, here's my question to you. Curious if you know the answer to this. when did Donald Trump first run for president?
>> Taylor: I'm sure that it's not what I think. 1996, 2000. Really? Yeah.
>> Farz: TRUMP first foray into national Politics happened in 2000 as a primary candidate for the Reform Party nomination.
>> Taylor: Is there still a Reform Party there?
>> Farz: is the vestiges of a Reform Party, but, like, basically, no. Okay. So in 2000 was when the Reform Party was really kind of up and running. 1996 had been, like, a test to gauge liability. And, you know, 8% wasn't a ton, but it was something. It was enough to, like, start pouring some money into it.
>> Taylor: That's a ton of people.
>> Farz: M. That's a ton of people, you know.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: Ah, he did end up. So he. He got, like. Like I said, he did 18% the previous cycle. So that was even more impressive. also, it's worth noting that at this time, politics wasn't. Was not entertainment in American history. And so he actually went out and got the votes. Like. Like. Like, this was not Instagram or TikTok people just telling you to go support somebody. Like, he legitimately went and got this 8% of the vote. So at the time, the three candidates on the Reform Party's primary ballot were Donald Trump, a guy named John Hagelin, who nobody cares about. He went, he moved into obscurity, and a guy named Pat Buchanan. And Pat is going to play kind of the central role here of, like, how all this kind of dovetails into, like, modern society and m. Modern times and modern history. Do you know that name?
>> Taylor: I do.
>> Farz: Okay. So Trump was actually doing pretty well in the primary. He and Buchanan were basically, like, neck and neck. And the main draws for, the primary election there with the Reform Party, at the end of it, like, several months after the campaign kind of kicked off, is when he actually voluntarily withdrew from the race. The reason he gave for withdrawing comes with a quote. This quote that he gives. This is a direct quote from Donald Trump in 2000. But so the Reform Party now includes a Klansman, Mr. Duke, a neo Nazi, Mr. Buchanan, and a communist. Ms. Fulani, this is not company I wish to keep. End quote. This is incredible. Again, I'm gonna. I'm gonna. I'm gonna. I'm gonna tie this together in a way that like makes a ton of sense.
Pat Buchanan would run for president in 1992 against George H.W. Bush
So let's talk about Pat real quick. So his background in politics really gets going as a opposition researcher working on behalf of the Nixon campaign. For those that don't know, like this is like the silent assassin thing. Like he. Like these people, like they are out to, like they're out for blood. Like they're not. I'm not going to say they're not nice people. I'm sure they're nice and personalized. But like you have to have a little bit of meanness in you to be a really good oppa researcher. M He would go on to work in the Reagan White House and he said something interesting during this time, which is that the greatest vacuum in American politics is to the right of Ronald Reagan. Can you see the breadcrumbs that are falling here? So he would go on to try and run for president in the Republican primary in 1992 against George H.W. bush after Bush. Bush basically welched on his no new taxes thing. He would obviously lose that attempt and that was that.
>> Taylor: Read my lips, no new taxes.
>> Farz: Yes, yes. When he was checking his watch while Bill Clinton was talking to the debate.
>> Taylor: That was like read my lips no more attack. That's a Reagan. Go ahead, keep going.
>> Farz: Dana Carvey. Dana Carvey was the read my lips guy.
>> Taylor: Remember when he's like I'm a, I'm a one termer and it's crying.
>> Farz: There's some some show where him and Jimmy Carter just like hanging out outside of a club while Reagan and like Obama and Clinton go inside.
>> Taylor: So.
>> Farz: So he would obviously lose. And losing that attempt to run President 92 and the schism with the Republican Party would continue to keep expanding the representation of that is in these two this term which is neocon versus Paleocon. I obviously know Neocom, but Paleocon was kind of in your wants me. So a neocon on the Republican side is what is traditional kind of Republican position. Something so military interventionism, strong support for alliances like NATO. America is a melting pot. Globalization of free market capitalism, stuff like that. Believing like a strong central government. It's like what we know is like regular Republicanism by comparison. Paleocons, which Buchanan became kind of the face of America first. Like no intervention whatsoever in other countries affairs. America is a Christian and Western nation with a cultural homogenity supporting U.S. jobs and industries as opposed to things like NAFTA and like free trade. That's kind of like, that's Kind of it. And like, it's amazing because it's like a Rosetta stone. Like this incredible. When he accepted his nomination for the Reform Party, he said, quote, neither Beltway party will drain this political swamp, because to them it is not a swamp. It is protected wetland, their natural habitat. This is pat Buchanan in 2000.
>> Taylor: Jesus.
>> Farz: So his issues that again, I said like, the Reform Party was kind of like a, blank slate for the most part. Whoever could put things on. So his issues had to do with tax reduction, removing government from the healthcare industry, protecting US Jobs by limiting free trade. he won a national abortion ban. He seemed to oppose the existence of gay people. It wasn't really so much their right. I think he just literally opposed, they existed.
>> Taylor: He wouldn't even talk about it. Or like, was like.
>> Farz: No, he was like. He seemed to think that like, this is like a choice people make and like, they should choose not to.
>> Taylor: Like I exhausting.
>> Farz: He. He advocated for a thing he called the Buchanan offense on the southern border.
>> Taylor: Wow.
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: Wow.
>> Farz: So the most problematic elements of, Buchanan's views, that really dovetail into like the 2000 election where it gets super problematic, has to do with antisemitism. So I'm going to go through some of Buchanan's history with Jews in detail here.
>> Taylor: Jesus. Buchanan Fence is one of the worst names I've ever heard for anything. And it's. That's all.
>> Farz: Exactly, exactly. Like you needed someone who is a showman. You needed someone who was like, who understands like, oh, this works and this works and this works and you know, like someone that, that had the, the TV aspect nailed down and just replace these ideas with that guy. But we're not going to that. I'm just. So here's some of the history of Pat Buchanan's relations with Jewish people. So in 1982, while he was working as a communications director at Ronald Reagan, he worked on in the background to frustrate attempts to deport a guy named John Dem. Jen Juke, who was the subject of a 2019 Netflix docu series entitled the Devil Next Door. He was a Nazi war criminal that Israel was trying to deport out of the US to bring him to justice.
>> Farz: In 1985, he pushed Reagan to visit a German military cemetery where SS buried their. Their Ballen. And Eli Wiesel, who was part of a Jewish coalition advocate against this trip, went to the White House. He later would say in an interview, quote, the only one really defending the trip was Pat Buchanan saying, we cannot Give the perception of the President being subjected to Jewish pressure, end quote.
>> Taylor: Why would that even be an option of something for him to do?
>> Farz: Because, for some reason the German chancellor at that time was also like, pushing for this. And so it was like, it was like it was a bad idea. Like not, not a good book.
>> Taylor: Okay. Ah, yeah. It's a weird vacation spot.
>> Farz: Yeah. In, in 1990, he wrote a column for the New York Post saying it would have been impossible to have killed the estimated 850,000 Jews in. And I think it was Dachau, I can't remember exactly which, or Treblinka, I can't remember which concentration camp.
>> Taylor: I had no idea any of this.
>> Farz: His argument had to do that.
Buchanan had a history of using coded antisemitic language
Diesel engines simply just do not produce enough carbon monoxide to have done this at this scale. He once asserted that Capitol Hill is Israeli occupied territory. He had a history of using coded antisemitic language, talking about things like globalist, which is like kind of like a dog whistle.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: His rhetoric was very often directly aimed towards support for Christian values, which was seen as like being at the expense of other values, namely Jewish values. And he would often refer to American Jews as Israeli, basically implying they're not really American because they're Jewish and therefore they, share loyalty with Israel. So it is kind of hard to find any single political commentator from any era, left, right or center that says anything other than Buchanan was outwardly and expressly antisemitic.
>> Taylor: Jesus.
The infamous butterfly ballot was used in Florida during the 2000 presidential election
>> Farz: So I bring all this up because it's relevant to the infamous butterfly ballot. So I'm going to articulate how things look. So, so hopefully you like pictures. I'm going to describe the ballot itself in Florida during the 2000 election. So it resembles like a little booklet when it's open. And in the middle is like a thin yellow divider which contains a bunch of holes. On the left side, the very top you have George W. Bush and the number three at the top below that you have Al Gore in the number five, so on and so forth. It just runs all the way down the left hand side. On the right hand side at the very top, kind of overlaid between Bush and Gore's boxes on the left is Pat Buchanan. So if you look at the holes, hole one is for Bush, hole two is for Buchanan, hole three is for Gore.
>> Taylor: Okay.
>> Farz: It's, actually not that complicated. The one thing to keep in mind is that Palm beach county is a retirement stronghold. in the year 2000, over 32% of the population was over 50 years old. And what's more, Palm beach has the fourth largest Jewish population of any county in the country. M. So what's even more interesting is Pat Buchanan ended up receiving over 3,400 votes on this butterfly ballot, which is four times the number he received on the absentee ballot that did not have the butterfly design. So there was a weird disproportionate quality of elderly Jews who voted for this guy that nobody can figure out why they would vote for him. Except that's a bit of mistake.
>> Taylor: Suspicious, right? Yeah.
>> Farz: So Gore ended up receiving 268,000 votes in this county. Bush received 152,000 votes and 5,300 votes were overvotes where the person voted for basically like Gore amb. Cannon or Bush. Amb. Cannon. You know, it was one of those deals, right.
>> Taylor: They just like messed it up or did it on purpose or whatever.
>> Farz: Exactly, exactly. So once this was all said and done, Bush had won the presidency. The National Opinion Research center at, ah, the University of Chicago ran an independent assess assessment. It applied Florida's legal standard for, for like a legitimate hand count of the votes. They noted that in the case of overvote, I. E. Someone picking two candidates, Gore and another candidate received 68,000 to Bush's 23,000.
>> Taylor: Whoa.
>> Farz: Those were thrown out?
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: Even though, even though you would assume the intent of the person is, oh, I didn't mean to vote for the guy who is like, literally talking about like the Holocaust didn't happen.
>> Taylor: Right.
>> Farz: Like, and then punching Gore. So anyways, they decided not to count those and assume that somebody ended up getting confused, and they basically would throw those votes out, would they? That actually wouldn't have mattered because after running this count again manually, it was determined that Gore would have won between 60 to 171 votes and the electoral votes of Florida. So the range is dependent on how scrupulously you would apply the standard. So for example, hanging chads are one that are kind of tough because. Yeah, because what will happen is like you push the, the paper in and then you slide it forward. And then if the, if the perforations haven't ripped the paper off completely, you just place the perforation right back into its spot. And so, and so that's why you have to do this stuff manually.
>> Taylor: That's, that's why I remember. Did they have like that piece of Styrofoam? Because I really, I clearly remember a piece of Styrofoam and that's what I was like, punching into, like underneath the ballot, I think you could throw the Styrofoam away and then mail in the ballot part.
>> Farz: So I like, how did you poke.
>> Taylor: A hole in it?
>> Farz: I'm fairly certain that all of this is state by state dependent.
>> Taylor: No, I know, but I'm, Like, were they supposed to poke a hole in it?
>> Farz: It's like a scant trial in the air. Yeah. No, no, no.
>> Taylor: How do you. How do you do that?
>> Farz: So you line. You line the thing up. You. You line your punch card up with the names, and then you punch the holes where the names are.
>> Taylor: Right. But just how do you punch a hole?
>> Farz: Well, you. You slide it into this little receptacle thing and then you.
>> Taylor: Okay. And that has, like, the Styrofoam in it. That does it.
>> Farz: I don't know if it's Styrofoam behind it or something. Something presumably is behind it. But the problem is, if it doesn't punch all the way out, you can pull it back out, and then it just by virtue of rubbing against the other thing, we'll just push it right back into its spot. And all of a sudden that's. You didn't. You didn't vote for anyone.
Taylor: What we're seeing today and what happened 24 years ago is similar
>> Farz: So basically what this kind of all comes to is what we're seeing today and what happened 24 years ago is, like, crazy similar. Like. Like, it's crazy similar.
>> Farz: And the reason I bring it up is because, like. And, the reason I brought the whole rhetoric versus reality thing is because, like, as I zoom myself out of this and what I was actually looking up was like, when in time has things. When in time has it ever felt like everything is existential and horrible and whatever? And I was like, it's literally every election. And when I went back and I looked up Pat Buchanan, I was like, dude, he's literally using the exact same playbook. He calls it, instead of the Buchanan, fence, he calls it Build a Wall.
>> Taylor: Yeah, exactly the same.
>> Farz: Exact same thing.
>> Taylor: Jesus.
>> Farz: And. And I don't know, I just found it really, really interesting also the fact that so much of world history would have been different if Buchanan didn't enter, and the fact that Trump was in there, all of it is so insane. It all kind of spirals out of, like, his experience in the 2000 election. And like, I don't know, it's. It's. There's a lot of, like, different threads to this that you could pull on. And, it's tough even knowing which thread to pull on it, but it's very, very interesting.
>> Taylor: It's Wild.
>> Farz: Yeah. Oh, I forgot this one part. So after the election, Pat Buchanan himself would be interviewed later, and he would say, quote, when I took one look at that ballot on election night, it's very easy for me to see how someone could have voted for me in the belief they voted for Al Gore. Like, he himself was like, yeah, like, these votes obviously aren't for me. Like, look at. Look at my life and look what I say.
>> Taylor: Like, how did. How did such a shitty design get approved?
>> Farz: I mean, that's the thing, Taylor. Like, again, like, this also dovetails into this cycle, right? Because on. On what? In what world will one or the other win and not claim election fraud or fake ballots or bad ballots or you. Like. Like, it's all going to. Like, we are just going to relive the same history over and over and over again. Because I guarantee you, to your point, why didn't anybody think about it? They probably did. And you know what? There's gonna be something else. We didn't think of this election, and then I know we didn't think of in four years.
>> Taylor: It's like, all the things. God. Do you remember, in 20 2008. Yes. I was on the Obama election for, like, the last couple weeks in Pennsylvania. And they call, and, Juan always talks about it because he's so freaking jealous because I was on the phone with him. I was at a bar at night, and when they called the election, because I called that night, you know, and I remember, and we all started screaming. We were so excited. While I'm on the phone, he was like, oh, I wish I was there. You know, we had. Which I'm like, it's just. What a. What a delight to have it called the day of.
>> Farz: Yeah, I don't know if that's, Yeah, I mean.
>> Taylor: Oh, that was 2012. Happened in 28,008. In 2008, we were in New York City and we had this big party, and we, I got this bar to give us all their space, and they were like. They, like, didn't believe me how many people I was bringing. And I brought, like, 300 people. And then, like, we. They had more space. And we were right by Times Square. We went out in Times Square and people were like, screaming. So it happened that night, too. So both Obamas were called that night.
>> Farz: Hillary and Trump wasn't called that night, was it?
>> Taylor: It was pretty clear, I think, that night.
>> Farz: Yeah, Yeah, I remember we had. We had a party. I'm just gonna.
>> Taylor: Yeah, we had a party that I just Remember progressively watching people, like, their faces change. It was wild. Wild. Yeah. Cool. This is, I don't know, is this helpful for my anxiety that this has always happened? You know, this isn't, isn't new, I.
Taylor: It's been interesting hearing different perspectives on the Kavanaugh controversy
>> Farz: Guess, Taylor, like, that is. You are kind of an audience of one for this. Because I do sense your anxiety about all this stuff.
>> Taylor: I'm dying. Yes, I'm dying.
>> Farz: And I keep looking at it from like, my background in like the historical context of all this, and I'm like, it's gonna be fine. I know legitimately gonna be fine. Like, your kids are gonna go to school the next day, you're gonna work, you're going to have your 401k, you're going to retire. You're probably like, we're going to be okay. And yes, are going to be things that are going to happen one way or the other that somebody doesn't like. I keep talking about Ezra Klein because I'm like, I love the perspective of like, hey, like, I'm not on this team, I'm not in this camp. I want to observe it from like a reporter perspective. Same with Maggie Haberman. Like, it's, it's very interesting hearing like, you know, New York and California liberals like observing this and like analyzing it through like their intelligence. And it's like it like they deconstruct in a way that like you sort of like, okay, like I, I get it. Like, I get this part of it. Like you, you fracture this part. I don't know. If you just listen to like the left perspective on it, that it just sounds like insanity manifest. I'm saying that like there's a, there's this Rosetta Stone of like having a wide range of ideas that you just say because eventually it'll strike a tone with this person. Like, you care about abortion. Like, that doesn't mean that like every person in America is like literally focused just on abortion. Like, maybe the person is focused more on like, you know, they keep saying the economy, the economy's a stupid ones, economy's doing great, like, whatever. Like that's just, that's a packaging problem, I think on the Democratic side. But I don't know. I don't know. It's been, this has been like a really interesting week for me, like observing things and in hearing, hearing different perspectives on it. I did think that the Joe Rogan interview, like it was smart of him never to attack Biden on his age because that's all like people are talking about now. And he just like, he brought it up in the interview. Like, this is not an age thing. This is not an age thing. He's. He has got, like, Rogan laugh at.
>> Taylor: Him when he said that he admitted he lost.
>> Farz: He. I don't remember that part. He did. He laughed. Him. He laughed at a few things. He said one thing, like, Trump was like, talking about how, like, Kamala will never do this interview with you. And he's like, no, I've reached out to her people. They haven't said yes. They haven't said no. It'll be great. He's like, well, she couldn't handle it. She'd just lie on the floor. She'd die. She'd be like, a little whatever. Like, he just went off on insulting her. It's like, you know, I think we'll just have a really good conversation. If she comes on, I think it's fine. Just like, what are you talking about? Like, she's a federal process.
>> Taylor: She's literally never done that. Ever. Makes absolutely no sense.
>> Farz: It was very, very interesting.
There was one thing you said I thought was really funny on the podcast
Oh, there was one. There was one thing you said I thought was really funny, which was, Rogan asked, like, why do you think all these countries didn't invade other places when you were president? And he goes, hey, look, I picked this guy, John Bolton, to be my national security advisor. And, anytime I go into a room with. With people from these other countries, I bring him with me. And everybody was like, don't hire this guy. Don't hire this guy. But you know what? That guy was nuts. And anytime I brought him into a room, it was like, he's legitimately gonna go to war with, other countries if we do anything.
>> Taylor: Did he, fire that guy?
>> Farz: I think he either fired him or he quit. I can't remember. Like, his whole point was, like, I hired him because he was crazy. And so anytime he would go into negotiations, they'd be like, trump's unhinged. This guy's unhinged. We better, like, not do what we want to do. And I was like, that's self. Self aware. Points for self awareness, I guess. anyways, that's the episode. So weird going back in history and seeing all this kind of come together.
>> Farz: Yeah, we'll see what happens.
>> Taylor: I know. I don't think I can do. Oh, my God, this is so funny. So John Bolton, he was a possible choice for Secretary of State, but Trump didn't choose him because Trump hated his mustache.
>> Farz: How is that not funny as shit? Like, that is so funny. That's. That's what I'm saying. Like, some of this stuff is just so funny.
>> Taylor: Like, well, there's. And it does, it affects everybody's life and it's, it's can be pared down to these kind of dumb things, you know?
>> Farz: Yeah. He looks like a walrus.
>> Taylor: He does look like a walrus. I mean, I, I'm not super mad at his mustache.
>> Farz: I mean, that guy was kind of nuts. So like, I mean, I remember when he, he nominated, or he like hired him and I was like.
>> Taylor: All.
>> Farz: That guy ever talks about is nuclear war with every country.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: But then on the episode he's like, yeah, that's why I hired him. Because he's insane. If you sent an insane guy in to negotiate for you, nobody's gonna mess with him because they think he's insane.
>> Farz: It's like really funny.
>> Taylor: He's advocated for preemptive strikes against North Korea and Iran.
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: Yeah, no, that. I'm glad that guy doesn't have his finger on any buttons at the moment.
>> Farz: I mean, who knows what will happen?
>> Taylor: Jesus.
>> Farz: But anyways, that was fun. Yeah. I would definitely recommend the Maggie Haberman Ezra Klein interview. That's the most recent one that came out. very, very interesting perspectives. So. But again, that, was the other part of it that this Tommy Taylor, because I was like, you go through line by line. It's like, dude, not only was he there in, in the 2000s, he was paying attention, he was running against the guy and he was watching how that guy was playing off crowds and audiences with what he was saying. And then he tweaked it like, I. It's not the same thing. It's the exact same thing. America first, isolationism. We don't need to go to war. Like all of it. Half the stuff that they can't keep, keep. They were hammering, ah, Biden over like all, all of it. Like it's all the exact same playbook. It's just being delivered in a slightly different package. So.
>> Taylor: Yeah, it's crazy that. How so? I didn't realize all that about Pat Buchanan. Like I'd heard the name, but I didn't realize all that stuff. Other stuff.
>> Farz: He literally called it a swamp in, in 2000.
>> Taylor: Wild. Wild.
>> Farz: anyways, hope. Hope this was a calming, soothing episode for everyone.
>> Taylor: It's not. But I mean, whatever. But you're right that. Whatever. I mean.
>> Farz: Yeah, I don't know, Trump gets. If Trump gets elected and everybody, like, whatever your issue is and like advocate for that for that issue. Right. Like, for example, when, when abortion, when Dobs was struck down, everybody was pissy about, about that. I was like, then elect legislators.
>> Taylor: Exactly.
There's so many down ballot things that affect your life so immediately
>> Farz: Like, there's always a mechanism around the thing. Like the system's actually working as it should be working right now.
>> Taylor: Totally. And it's. There's so many, like I said I think last time, there's so many down ballot things that like, affect your life so immediately that you need to like, pay attention to as well and also get involved if you're pissed. Yeah.
>> Farz: In our last. Wasn't it like, like 1 15th of all offices go un, unfilled because nobody even files to run for those offices. Those are all local races. Those are all the things that are.
>> Taylor: Like, do all of that. That's such a good idea. We did this in, in New York City when I was, the president of the Manhattan Young Democrats. We had a project. What do we call it? It was cute. But like, in New York City, there's like these little elected positions that are like three block areas and you get, you have to like, petition to get on the ballot and then get on the ballot and then you can like represent your little three block area in like these big meetings. And like 70% of them were open. So we ran. What's it called, we ran a bunch of young people for it. Like, we stood outside, got a hundred signatures from their neighbors, got on the ballot, press on the ballot, and they had their little elected position in New York City. It was so cool. And they were available, you know, plenty of those.
>> Farz: Yeah, I'm sure there's plenty of those.
>> Taylor: Yeah. yeah, that's a, that's a really, really good point. I mean, there's plenty of stuff that you can do and just make sure you do everything you can. It matters to you, which is. Judge.
>> Farz: They're saying the theory of the case with the Trump campaign is they're trying to get people who will not turn out to turn out. And that's why he's doing the kind of media that he's currently doing, because he's like, he's never going to win the part of the country that like, is going to hate him, obviously, but he can get net new people to come out if he goes to the right places and does the right kind of audiences, which is like a.
>> Taylor: Well, that's the whole point. Yeah, that's what. That's all Go TV is.
>> Farz: No, I know, but I think that like there. I guess the point is like, there's not that much in the realm of undecideds right now for Trump. Like, you either have an opinion or you don't. Like, I don't know which is,
>> Taylor: Good, because not having an opinion is wild.
>> Farz: Ken Bone wild. We got to find the Ken bone of the 24 cycle.
>> Taylor: Who's Ken Bone?
>> Farz: You remember Ken Bone. He was the undecided voter with the.
>> Taylor: Oh, yeah, yeah, yeah, I see him. Oh, Ken Bone is my age.
>> Farz: Wait, seriously?
>> Taylor: Ken Bone? My dear, my dear friend, that guy is outrage.
>> Farz: Wow.
>> Taylor: that's hilarious.
>> Taylor: Who else? oh, remember that? I. I did not see this movie. But isn't there this movie with Kevin Costner where he's like, swing vote where he's the last person in America who didn't vote and like, they have to like, go. I mean, no, it's not true, but it's a movie. It's like one guy in like, Wyoming and they have to go find him, and then both candidates have to convince him to vote for them. I did not see it.
>> Farz: Dude, Ken Bone looks terrible. He needs to figure something out. It says his job is being a personality.
>> Taylor: I love that. well, I mean, I don't have a Wikipedia page for my personality, so. Good for him.
>> Farz: Way to go, Ken. sweet.
Taylor: A listener has something called delayed phase sleep disorder
So anything else you want to say, Taylor?
>> Taylor: yes, I have a note from a listener who, regarding our sleep episode, they have something called delayed phase sleep disorder. and that means that usually, as you were saying, people's natural sleep wake cycle is like 24.1 hours, but theirs is 26 hours. So like, it messes with their, like, equilibrium in their day to day, in their cycles, because their sleep cycle is 26 hours.
>> Farz: So how long. Wait, how long do they sleep? Do we know?
>> Taylor: So I think they have to sleep m more or just like a different cadence into like catch up or not catch up and like, makes it harder.
>> Farz: Is this a listener wars?
>> Taylor: Yes.
>> Farz: Wow. That's got to be rough.
>> Taylor: I know. It said it still causes them trouble, so. Yeah, it delays your circadian rhythm and it. So you're. You're like sleep and so like, it messes with your. Like you could have insomnia, sleep weirdly. All kinds of things. Yeah, they fall asleep after midnight and have difficulty waking up in the morning.
>> Farz: Rough.
>> Taylor: I know. Social jet lag.
>> Farz: These are the little things that you don't know. You should be thankful for real.
>> Taylor: But thank you for sharing.
>> Farz: Yes, thank you.
>> Taylor: yeah, and if you have any thoughts or questions, find us at doom to fail pod on all socials and email us at Doom to fail pod@gmail.com.
>> Farz: Sweet. We'll go ahead and cut things off.