This week Taylor brings us to post-Civil War Appalciacia to tell the legend of the Hatfields & McCoys!! It’s a doozy - so many people die for just family pride? Don’t kill people, even if they kill your people. Stop the cycle. Farz tells us the story of one of the very few women on death row - Tiffany Cole - Tiffany and her boyfriend, Michael Jackson were shockingly not criminal masterminds and buried an elderly couple alive after they robbed them for no reason whatsoever. You do not know criminal masterminds, there are so few of them out there! Please don’t believe anyone who wants to get you involved in a heist!
This week Taylor brings us to post-Civil War Appalciacia to tell the legend of the Hatfields & McCoys!! It’s a doozy - so many people die for just family pride? Don’t kill people, even if they kill your people. Stop the cycle.
Farz tells us the story of one of the very few women on death row - Tiffany Cole - Tiffany and her boyfriend, Michael Jackson were shockingly not criminal masterminds and buried an elderly couple alive after they robbed them for no reason whatsoever. You do not know criminal masterminds, there are so few of them out there! Please don’t believe anyone who wants to get you involved in a heist!
Pictures via
Public domain
Wikipedia
1historyinphoto
Nancy via find a grave
Tiffany and Michael Jackson via Oxygen
Sources:
From NBC News
Hatfields & McCoys on Netflix
The Fued by Dean King
Hi Friends! Our transcripts aren't perfect, but I wanted to make sure you had something - if you'd like an edited transcript, I'd be happy to prioritize one for you - please email doomedtofailpod@gmail.com - Thanks! - Taylor
0:16
what's your answer for the week um I oh God no I um well I told you I
0:24
just woke I just woke up but I did do all my work my outline yesterday because yesterday was a day off
0:29
um because the New York Stock Exchange is closed on Good Friday and um it was awesome it was the best I wish
0:35
I had every Friday off are you a stock broker now and I don't know this I am it's because I'm a stockbroker no I work
0:43
at a fintech company of ours I see so um but we uh yeah so I went to a little
0:49
coffee shop in town and I wrote my outline it was the first nice day that I've seen in so freaking long so it was
0:57
really nice it's awesome this sounds like a fun way to do it yeah and then I did a bunch of like errands today's
1:02
miles's birthday party so I bought some stuff for that and then we have Easter
1:07
on Sunday so I had to buy all that [ __ ] yeah is it actually his birthday today
1:12
no it was on Tuesday got it okay sweet um my banter for the week man my brain's
1:19
working a little bit slow today and one of those nights last night I went to bed really early so I don't know
1:26
what my problem is I would have been really late that's my problem
1:31
yeah and I was like I was like forget it I'm going to bed really early and so I just went to bed at like 9 30 and it was
1:37
lovely Ah that's so nice yeah that was not the night I had um I'm probably gonna repeat it more
1:43
tonight so it is what it is that's that's the best I got you do you you live your life
1:49
your free child free life in a big city someone told me that um it's Easter
1:56
which I totally forgot that it was and I put this on like not even knowing that
2:02
and so is there update on Cross yeah I was like wow I've worn this like maybe
2:08
once that's so funny and I put it on and somebody was like oh yeah it's Easter and I was like oh [ __ ] what a weird time
2:14
that I picked uh from from Heaven I know my family is
2:19
this makes my mom annoyed but we we always say can't wait to see if Jesus sees his shadow on Sunday
2:27
yeah yeah well let's let's go ahead and introduce
2:33
the show what's my tackling gonna be hold on uh yeah okay I got it all right
2:40
welcome to demon to fail the podcast where we keep intermittently switching off who's the most tired
2:46
person and today I'm winning I'm far as I'm joined here by my co-host Taylor Taylor how you doing I am good
2:52
I'm up I think I've been up for like a solid five minutes so now I'm starting to feel it I can see the sun I had half the can of
2:59
Diet Coke so yeah isn't it weird like you know I used to do this thing where if I because it's so obvious whenever I
3:07
wake up and I go straight into a zoom call yeah and they're they're sometimes when those Zoom calls are happening like
3:13
noon so I have no justifiable reason for having just woken up and I'll just like sit in my room and just like Clear My
3:19
Throat over and over again and shout and then whisper and try to get my voice to modulate enough so that it doesn't sound
3:25
like I literally just woke up I've been up for hours yeah you sound just like it too
3:31
um but yeah so we're gonna be covering our red flag relationships one is historical one is true crimey Taylor is
3:40
is you go this week yes okay I never remember and you always keep me on the
3:45
straight and arrow so why don't you introduce your drink and then you can say well actually should I do mine yeah
3:52
yeah and then I'll go so mine's gonna be um Gutter and sewer water because a people that we're covering are just
3:58
gutter trash people that probably should have been killed with a rock as children
4:04
um so yeah that's that's what I'm drinking what about you okay well
4:11
that's really funny okay this week I'll switch score right to my story
4:16
we're drinking apple whiskey distilled by a very dirty man in a very dirty
4:21
Shack in the middle of the Woods so is Apple whiskey whiskey that is
4:28
flavored with apples or is it no I think it's just like moonshine like it's like whatever
4:35
um booze you can get out of doing that got it got it okay I've never heard of it called Apple whiskey though I think
4:41
today you could probably get apple whiskey like I got like a peanut butter flavored whiskey one time like I think I
4:46
could get that was that screwball I don't know maybe it was it is disgusting so you know how much I like my bourbon I
4:53
bought a bottle of screwball when I first moved to Austin I had that thing for like two and a half years I couldn't get through it it was
4:59
just so disgusting I don't remember what it tasted like but I remember it existed yeah it's happy guys
5:06
so I want you to try to guess far as what we're going to talk about and we're going to get there because I'm going to do the second and maybe last
5:13
installment of my weekly weekly segment which is called I already have children I will have no more here are some names
5:19
I've got to consider when I'm with having them and I give them to you you're welcome it's a long segment name but that's this
5:25
is this is episode two of that so I'm gonna give you some names and then you tell me if you know who I'm talking
5:30
about okay I love this tap I'm just gonna keep going and then you let me know
5:36
John Z squirrel hunting Sam skunk hair
5:42
cotton top bad Frank and devil ants
5:47
it all sounds like Frontiers men in Texas pretty we're talking Hatfields and
5:53
McCoys we're on the border of Kentucky and West Virginia so good okay so super excited I
6:01
did a bunch of research I read the book Feud um I read like half of it and then I
6:06
started over because I watched the Hatfield and McCoys miniseries on Netflix and then I had to like go back
6:11
and like reread the book because then it it kind of like know who it was talking about and I swear last week it wasn't
6:17
available but then it all started what like the mini series is on Netflix it stars Kevin Costner as himself slash
6:23
devilance who's kind of like just Kevin Costner being Kevin Costner and Bill Paxton
6:29
um R.I.P as Randall McCoy so was it good yeah yeah it's a three episode series
6:36
and it's very it's very fun yeah um it also ties back to other my other
6:43
stories in different ways so one is the book Feud that I read it opens up with
6:49
the author talking about how JFK Jr wanted to do a big story about um the Hatfields and McCoys and George
6:55
magazine because he was really interested in doing more like American history stuff in his magazine
7:01
but he died so he didn't get to do it I know don't get into playing with it
7:07
Kennedy and then number two Eleanor Roosevelt was very personally invested in this community in Appalachia
7:14
um in this area and she made a community called arthurdale which was like a place where they like built houses for people gave them skills and she was able to
7:22
like help them kind of figure themselves out um it was pretty good it was parts of it were segregated which is a great
7:27
but it was still like a good effort by ER so she spent time in there too also my my algorithm is hilarious because all
7:33
the articles I get I'm like my pop-up news are like now we know what Cleopatra smells like and we found we found
7:40
ambulance necklace and I'm like oh my God my algorithm is like out of control right now I'm gonna blow my nose okay can you hold please yes
7:47
Taylor's off camera blowing her nose I don't know if I'm Gonna Leave This part in or edit it out but just so you all should know okay I feel less sniffy
7:54
perfect um all right so anyway the story unfolds on the banks of the tug River the tug
8:00
river separates Kentucky and West Virginia this rant this land is a very very rough it's scary but it's not like
8:07
Eastern Massachusetts scary it's still just like it's like very woodsy there's a podcast
8:13
that I really like called the old gods of Appalachia and it's like about telling stories of like earthy gods and
8:18
witches and things in this area so it's pretty fun if you ever want to listen to something cool have you ever been to
8:24
Kentucky or West Virginia no I've done Kentucky before and it is um
8:30
it's Louisville it's true yeah that counts well I mean like the countryside like I it is um
8:37
it's incredible it's beautiful for one but then it's the juxtaposition of that
8:43
is abstract poverty which is really strange
8:48
to see in a place that is that rich in natural resources like it's just you would think it'd be like a tourist hot
8:53
spot but I guess it's not because it's just like there's no like Cottages to go
8:59
sleep in or you know like it just doesn't have the Ambiance of like a Vermont let's say it's true yeah
9:06
definitely I know there's like the Appalachian Trail it's like really beautiful and the whole
9:12
area is beautiful yeah so I'd like to tell you a little bit more about it I also listened to some banjo music on
9:18
Spotify to get in the mood and by the time I was writing this um someone was doing Taylor Swift's anti-hero in Banjo
9:25
version it was great so it was fun the Native Americans didn't really live in
9:30
this area they used it for hunting there's a lot of like bears and deer and animals and things that live there the tug River itself is not like the
9:37
Mississippi it's like pretty small it's something you could like swim across it's not like a huge river that divides Kentucky and West Virginia and I'll
9:44
share a map when I'm doing the socials but everything in the story is within like two miles of each other like it's all
9:51
very close everyone lives really close to each other but they live in different states because they live on different sides of the tug right so I looked at
9:58
the demographics in the area today that you're talking about it obviously isn't great it's not like the worst in the
10:03
country it's a lot of people below the poverty line everywhere it's like small town stuff um according to arc.gov the high school
10:10
diploma rate is approaching the national average there are 87 percent with the bachelor's degree rate
10:15
still really low at 25 so people are like getting out of high school but not really leaving and going to college there's a Diane Sawyer 60 Minutes that
10:23
came out in 2009 and I remember my co-worker watching at me like it was crazy I didn't I couldn't watch all of
10:30
it because I find parts of it on YouTube it was called hidden America and two stories that stood I hope there was this
10:35
poor girl and everybody like nobody has teeth like everyone's like really poor and one girl was like we're not like
10:42
other people we can't afford food after food after food because they like barely had any food it's pretty sad
10:48
there was a guy who was a football player and he had potential and so he
10:53
um is going got like a little scholarship to college and they were focusing on him and then in the middle
10:59
of his interview things go crazy because they find his stepbrother sleeping with his underage stepsister
11:05
and everyone is like yeah it's not great because they're blood Diane Sawyer's at your house you can't like skip this
11:12
today you know have you have you ever seen the uh Mark later project that he
11:18
calls soft white underbelly on YouTube it's really interesting like he interviews
11:25
I mean it's basically what it sounds like a soft white underbelly it's like it's like drug addicts prostitutes you
11:30
know uh people like that but there's one part of it that he turned into a series
11:36
because he found the subject so fascinating and he went to West Virginia and basically met this family that all
11:43
lives in this Shack yes and apparently I I went down a rabbit
11:49
hole on Reddit on this apparently they're very very inbred so all the
11:55
siblings were just having sex with each other but the way this the group that was currently alive came about was because
12:01
there was two two like a male and female set of twins
12:07
and they in her and they were direct first cousins and they intermarried and
12:13
so it basically just double tripled everything down the Next Generation over but it's it's really fascinating I mean
12:19
you just feel bad for them right like you look at people like that and it's they had no hope right like they there
12:24
wasn't no you know I mean they lived in a shack I think I saw that recently on
12:30
the news because my new algorithm is crazy but yeah they had him like one of the men like couldn't even talk he kind
12:36
of barked like a dog yeah yeah I know exactly you're talking about yeah super sad like it also it's just like that
12:42
X-Files episode do you remember that one where um the mom and it has all the
12:47
inbred kids and the mom is like not a full body but they do all these bad things and they have to like get away and it's like a really good X-Files
12:53
episode okay I'm gonna admit something to you that I've never told you before I've never watched X-Files
13:04
I'll give you a list of good ones it's so good I've watched all of it twice it's yeah it's great give me like a hit
13:10
list because I'm gonna be on a lot of planes for the next like two weeks okay this one that our friend Laura is in
13:15
I'll give you that one that's a good one wait Laura Harris no way okay yeah she's little she's like a little girl but it's
13:21
cute yeah cool I also watched oh a long time ago so my friends and I had a website called pop10 that was like
13:28
top 10 lists of stuff I don't know it was like 12 years ago 15 years ago and someone sent us a DVD like they like
13:33
sent us things so I got a DVD called the Wild and wonderful Whites of West Virginia which is about a a
13:40
family with last names white is produced by Johnny Knoxville and it talks about like a family that similarly is like
13:47
opioids and drugs and just living in that area yeah it's weird it's like two different
13:53
versions of sadness one they're not in red to the point where they can't communicate or walk or anything
13:58
but they're also like horrible drug addicts they can't tell themselves yeah
14:03
it's real sad so yeah two things to highlight before we start the first is obviously incest we just we just talked
14:09
about it a little bit when I was reading this book this was the first time I've heard the word double first cousin and I was like oh my God what does that mean
14:15
but that can be not terrible if you do that the right way like if you married my sister and I married your brother and
14:21
we all had kids they'd be double first cousins no the next generation is a problem so what I mentioned earlier with
14:27
the two sets of twins having sex it's not like it's bad at that level but it's
14:34
doubly worse when their children have sex with each other you see what I'm saying no no but I'm saying there's no
14:40
nobody related is having sex right now you're just double first because you have like the Europe
14:46
your cut you only have like one set of grandparents as cousins you know like your cousins have other grandparents
14:51
that like so they you don't have those they only have like the the grandparents but you're not sleeping with your sister
14:57
or anything it just happens to be that your dad is like related to your uncle you know I really love that all it took
15:04
was for us to get into like redneck incest to start going down the genealogy map and actually run into stuff for real
15:11
we'll we'll do a thing but I also want to say that like we've definitely brushed off a lot of cousin and sibling
15:17
marrying when we're talking about like queens and kings and Pharaohs and Emperors so like because it's not as
15:22
gross I don't know why I don't know but it's like when you do it in a shack
15:28
it's different than when doing it in a castle isn't it I guess no one smells good while doing it I think that's a
15:34
good idea and then also we talk about guns and
15:39
state for the record [ __ ] your guns there's a lot of guns in this story it's right after the Civil War we'll talk
15:45
about some dates but they're like homemade guns it's like lead bullets and gunpowder and a lot of people get shot
15:50
and live a lot of people like a lot of people were just like oh he shot me like it's fine you're either gonna die of
15:56
infection or maybe something gets amputated it's not like uh they're not shooting each other with like machine guns no AR-15 in this story they're like
16:03
homemade bullet that bullet guns so I also know that I promise to talk about
16:09
stereotypes today so PBS has a documentary that you cannot watch all of no matter how hard you try but the in
16:15
the intro to it you talk about industrialization an old the old versus the new so like this
16:21
story of the Hatfields and McCoys in the late 1800s when it was happening it was in the New York Times like people were
16:28
watching it and like it was city folks watching this story judging them calling them Hillbillies which like sure
16:37
but it was like national news so it was what it was doing was inadvertently making the Hatfields and McCoys the
16:44
stereotypes of the American hillbilly whether or not like there's other stories other people because they were
16:49
so popular and so the question that the PBS documentary that I'm unable to finish poses is did industrialization and
16:57
post-civil War reconstruction push rural people into this other and we've been
17:03
separated since then especially now so like how much did you know the like eyes
17:08
on the story from the city and that even like from big cities in Kentucky they would look down at these folks and
17:14
listen to this story so it's weird like I kind of look at it as like a badass like I
17:20
it's so old American Frontiers living it's just like because I I don't know
17:25
enough about it to like say anything pithy but I would say that like they really did
17:31
[ __ ] each other up like they shot each other they like killed their relatives and it's just like I don't know there's
17:37
something weirdly Charming about like they're like their own military like
17:42
their own Army their own nation states yeah and then also yeah because I'm going to talk about violence there's a
17:47
lot of violence these are like very fiercely lawyer loyal and stubborn people there's a theory that the McCoys
17:53
had a disease called Von hippo lindau disease it's not a theory because
17:58
descendants have it so like people on The CORE family do have it and it can make you really short-tempered so that
18:05
could have escalated it on the McCoy side at least they had like a disease that made them more short-tempered but
18:10
they're exceptionally short-tempered like crazy things happened okay
18:16
so for years the Hatfields and McCoys lived on the tug River Valley they sort of lived
18:22
together like just like neighbors they did have they did intermarry a little bit like not incest intermarry but like
18:28
family intermarious people could be both in McCoy in a Hatfield and they lived in the same Community it's like a small
18:33
Mountain Community it escalates with our two main Patriarchs so William Anderson Hatfield
18:40
was born in 1842. that's devil ants devil ants is a nickname he got by his
18:46
mom there's a story that when he was a little kid like 10 he tracked a bear through the woods and the time he got to
18:52
it he had dropped his bullets and he couldn't kill it so he was so mad he kicked it and the bear went running up
18:58
into a tree and he sat at the bottom of the tree for like two days until his family found him because he didn't want to leave because he was very stubborn
19:04
wow so devilance is also Kevin Costner if you want to picture that okay he
19:11
married a woman named leviathy Chaffin in 1861 and they would go on to have 13 children so there's a lot of kids in
19:18
this story as well and then Randolph Randall McCoy is a little bit older he was born in 1825. he
19:25
did marry his first cousin Sarah Sally McCoy and they would have 17 children
19:30
what is it about being poor and having a lot of children I don't get how the two
19:35
are correlated well it's a couple things it's like one you don't have access to
19:40
birth control so you don't have a way to not have a baby if you if you want to not have one and then also like the the
19:48
kids the especially in this time and in in the past I mean more so than now like
19:53
a lot of kids died in when they were little you know so you that was like a part of life like a lot of kids died in
19:59
infancy a lot of kids died when they were toddlers there's like disease they would get lost you know and
20:05
you just needed the kids to work on the farm so you're just having more kids do you remember how they would do
20:12
abortions back in the day from the Dahmer party episode just no
20:17
being on a horse no because during during the Donner Party Fiasco a lot of women would just
20:22
like get pregnant on the trail and like that was the worst possible time to get pregnant because you're on a trail and
20:28
there's no medical anything around and so what they would do is just find the biggest strongest guy and put the lady
20:34
on his lap and you just have to shake his legs like really really hard and that would apparently induce the abortion so it wasn't really scientific
20:41
but it apparently worked yeah and I I do remember from that they were like they wanted to do that because they were
20:48
like I can't have another baby like I can't have a baby on this thing and like no way yeah later yeah okay terrible
20:55
so there's tons of kids in the story in the in the miniseries they are there are
21:01
kids around but aren't like tons of kids but like in real life like it's like grandkids at the same age as the kids
21:06
like there's just tons of people constantly having babies so it's April 1861 and the Civil War
21:13
begins so
21:18
you would think it was like a hundred percent Confederate there it's not a hundred percent there's a little bit of
21:24
like a little bit of tension a little bit of back and forth but devil Anson Randall both joined the Confederate Army
21:29
sorry your point was that you would think that West Virginia and Kentucky are full of
21:35
um Confederate okay I mean I would I'm stereotyping them you are serious I've been there a little bit
21:41
yeah yeah um so um devilians actually deserts and goes
21:47
back to his family that's not part of why there is a feud but it is interesting that devil ants deserts and he's he is going to be one of the the
21:54
Hatfields are a lot more um they have a lot more money than The McCoys they have like a Timber business they do bootlegging the Hatfields are
22:01
more well off than The McCoys are and the few instances that could have started the feud so the feud starts
22:07
officially after the Civil War Randall's brother Harman McCoy was a
22:13
Union soldier so he did fight for the north he was injured in the war a bunch and was sent home
22:19
in December 1864. so Harmon gets sent home back to this area and
22:25
everyone's pissed because he was a Union soldier essentially and the Hatfields are like we're gonna kill him he was a
22:30
Union soldier so he goes home and his family's like oh my God we missed you we can't we're so happy
22:36
you're here you're injured what can we do and within a week he has to go hide because the Hatfields are going after
22:41
him and he goes and hides in the woods they end up finding him because of footprints in the snow because it's like
22:47
January in in the mountains and crazy Uncle Jim who is devil against his uncle
22:52
he kills him so he kills Randall's brother Harmon in 1865 leaving his wife
22:59
widowed and she has a bunch of kids that we're going to talk about later so that's an instigating thing for sure that was
23:06
the start the start was the union Confederate divide basically yeah yeah well yes and then just like this one guy
23:12
happened to be a McCoy and they killed him Carmen so 13 years later in 1878
23:17
there's an issue with Hogs so razorback hogs are just a big part of life out there they're like what you eat your
23:23
food from um all that you would generally let them wander around and then pick them up it was time to like
23:29
slaughter them um because like they were just going to the woods and eat and to kind of take care of themselves and you would Mark
23:34
your Hogs by cutting their ears so they'd be like oh the Pinero cut is like two cuts in the ear of this hog
23:40
that's how you know it's mine but that got confusing because there's only so many ways to do that and like people
23:46
would get them confused all the time and Randall's Hogs go missing and he goes looking for them and devil and says
23:53
cousin Floyd says they are his so now there's two people fighting over these Hogs or just kind of wandering in the
24:00
woods and it ends up going to court and a lot of stuff goes to court in the story also so
24:06
they do try to like be litigious and and um solve things that way but the problem
24:11
is like the Justice of the piece is a Hatfields like this is all the people that live here you know and so like
24:18
literally the jury is half Hatfields half McCoys there's so many relatives because
24:24
there's so many of them yeah and then there's a split because one of The McCoys works for devil ants at his like
24:30
Timber um place and a man named Bill Stanton who
24:36
works for devil lands as well testifies of the Hogs do belong to Floyd Hatfield so Floyd wins and Randall McCoy has to
24:44
pay all the legal fees so he's pissed Bill Stanton who is the one who kind of swayed the jury to the Hatfield side
24:52
isn't long for this world Randall's Sons Sam and Paris kill him in 1880 and they
24:57
claim self-defense and they get off but it was because of the Hogs just do whatever you want yeah which isn't into
25:03
the woods and shoot him yeah so there are some people that I haven't mentioned that I won't really mention in this
25:09
story but one of them is The McCoys do have a lawyer in their family his last name is Klein he's in a lot of these
25:15
stories kind of like as like the person who's a little more educated so he helps The McCoys get legal justice he also
25:21
happened to have inherited some land from his father and ended up having to give it to devilance because of like
25:27
threats and like other things so he also has like a personal Vendetta against the Hatfields make sure they have this like
25:33
lawyer on their side so now everyone's like really mad because like the hog thing Harmon's dead
25:38
tensions are up and then a third thing happens John C Hatfield whose devil and
25:43
says oldest son is a bit of a philanderer he it's actually like not the end of the world to have sex before
25:49
marriage there's like saloons with sex workers everyone knows it it's not puritanical you know it's just like kind
25:55
of wild and they go to a party they go to all these like community events together and at this party John C sees
26:01
Randall McCoy's daughter Rosanna like potentially for the first time but that can't be true because there's like
26:08
everyone lives so close to each other I'm sure he knew she existed but he like sees her and like he like likes her for the first time she's a little bit older
26:14
she's very pretty and they hook up and they want to get married Randall McCoy is like absolutely
26:19
no and he disowns her and he never talks to her again what's her name again Rosanna Rosanna McCoy she's very pretty
26:27
you can see this is a picture of her did you find her yeah I mean look uh beauty
26:33
standards change over time I would assume she
26:38
she kind of say John Wayne Gacy he does not
26:44
say first she's very she's very pretty I'll put the picture on the internet but yes yeah I mean look the people that
26:51
played her exceptionally pretty like I don't know who this is had Philly McCoy's this is a
26:56
2012 movie yeah yeah Lindsay pulsifer something place I mean
27:04
she's very pretty I mean I don't think this woman is anyways whatever different standards fine I think she's pretty
27:10
doesn't matter yeah but um and then so anyway
27:16
this is the red flag they literally say in a few this is a red flag of the of the whole pewd is because Randall is so
27:23
willing to never talk to her again he's like you're my daughter you're my favorite I love you so much I will never
27:28
talk to you again in the show Bill Paxton takes her hope chest you know what a hope chest is uh uh no it's like
27:35
if you have if you have a daughter in like the in the past I don't know people do it now but literally it's like a wooden
27:42
chest and you put things in it for her when she gets married like you make as she's growing up you make like embroidered napkins for her and you find
27:49
like special dishes and special things and you put it in there that she can take with her to start her married life
27:54
we should do that like that should be a continuation I have a I have a plastic
28:00
container filled with stuff from when Obama was running for president for the kids yeah that's stuff
28:06
like that that's really cool New York Times and all that yeah so anyway in the show Bill Paxton takes her hope chest
28:12
and destroys it in the rain and it's very dramatic he's like very dramatic in this movie so I don't know if he really
28:17
did that but anyway he said no Rosanna you are out of my life so definitely aunts let's Rosanna stay with them on
28:24
the West Virginia side of the tug while they aren't married yet Rosanna does get pregnant and John Z is a bootlegger of
28:31
moonshine so it's not illegal to have alcohol now it's not like prohibition but it's it's illegal to make it and
28:36
sell it without telling the IRS essentially they want it needs to be like a legitimate business so Rosanna is
28:43
torn she goes home she's pregnant she's upset her dad doesn't want to talk to her she's trying to figure out what to
28:49
do and John C comes to get her because he does love they do love each other Jazzy comes to get her and her brothers
28:55
try to arrest him because they have a bootlegging warrant against him in West Virginia so they try to arrest him and
29:01
they take him to a place like gonna arrest him put him into jail and Rosanna despite being very pregnant she steals a
29:07
horse from a neighbor and rides to the Hatfields to tell them that John's is being taken away and they go and save him so this is even more
29:14
betrayal to her family because she left her house and like told them that but
29:19
she moved in with her aunt instead of moving back in with her family or with John Z she has the baby her name's Sarah
29:26
Elizabeth she dies before her first birthday so unfortunately the baby dies Jonesy does love her and tries to go
29:31
back to her but she you know feels like she's broken then you know there's a terrible story because John's he's like
29:38
still kind of a philanderer and he's been spending time with a sex worker to kind of like heal his broken heart and
29:43
his family's super pissed and they find I mean this isn't even this isn't in the movie but they find this sex worker
29:50
hanging in the woods they hung they hanged her naked with a dress over her face and she was hanging for two days
29:56
before someone found her so someone got rid of hers that jonzy would stop paying so much time with her which
30:02
is horrifying so rosanna's heartbroken John C actually ends up marrying her cousin Nancy so
30:09
another McCoy so John C marries Nancy McCoy and even in the book Feud they say that he loved her less like he just
30:16
didn't love her as much as he loved Rosanna yeah there's Nancy in this picture
30:21
Nancy is the daughter of Harman the Union soldier who was killed in the beginning right so it's like Nancy what
30:29
are you doing and the movie She's portrayed as being kind of awful but you're like you're not only betraying your family by marrying a Hatfield but
30:35
you're also marrying the person that you know your cousin loves so Nancy has a whole thing so Rosanna eventually just
30:41
dies of being sad she dies a lot a couple women in the story just die of being sad so here's another so here's
30:47
where things are getting a little bit crazy and we get into like the real escalation of the feud so there are states issues because
30:54
they're in different states so we're like whose jurisdiction is this like I can see across the tug but it's a different state
30:59
but generally the Hamilton McCoys have the same political views so when there is a big election like in the area
31:04
they're usually on the same side of the election the voting in this time is very public it was obviously just men but you
31:11
like go to a an all day long event and they say like everyone who wants this person to win stand over here raise your
31:17
hand this person stand over here raise your hand like it's not private you're like raising your hand to say that and so it's kind of a fun a fun day like
31:24
everyone comes you bring your family there's food there's music and there's a lot of whiskey so a lot of this like
31:30
Moonshine Whiskey it involves like I said apples you like ferment them in the woods and you like heat it up and boil
31:36
it and like let it sit for a while and so when I was 1882 there's an election so one of these
31:42
big election parties it's in Kentucky and everyone's there all of our main characters are there someone brings even
31:48
more whiskey than usual and they bring corn whiskey and like the you know the thing is if you mix corn and apple
31:54
whiskey like you're [ __ ] it's like much worse for you just like drink both of them well you get just drunk faster yeah
32:01
exactly so deviliance has a brother Ellison who had a baby with their cousin
32:07
I don't know anything about her but like he has his baby she's not in the picture he has the baby or another baby's like a
32:12
young man their son cottontap is important later in this story cotton top
32:18
was slow and possibly albino but either way he was very blonde and that's why
32:23
they call them caught on top get it please look wait so it's election day Ellison gets in a
32:29
fight with some of the McCoys and is stabbed over 20 times and then shocked so by they just got this like drunken
32:36
brawl over whatever and the three McCoy boys Tolbert farmer sells the ph and Bud
32:42
they are taken away by the law the Hatfields are the cops in this area in
32:48
Kentucky so they take the boys to Pikeville and I say boys but they're not boys Tolbert already has kids like they're
32:54
just like young men and they take him to Pikeville in Kentucky Ellison isn't dead yet he's been shot he's been shot once
33:00
and stabbed 20 times but he's not dead and on the way over to to put them in
33:06
jail in Kentucky devil ants and a posse stop them and they're like give them to us like
33:13
screw all the paperwork we're gonna take him to West Virginia and tie them up and if Ellison dies then they die like we're
33:20
gonna do this vigilante justice if he dies then all three of these boys are gonna die they kind of like even though
33:25
they're like kind of the Hat feels on the wall on the Kentucky side he's like we're taking them over to West Virginia
33:31
kind of love this it's it's like a lot so he takes the he takes they take the boys they tie him up in an abandoned
33:38
Schoolhouse and they're waiting to see if Ellison dies so they're like if he does you die FYI but they're just
33:43
waiting for the news and he's like definitely gonna die because he's stabbed so many times yeah they're probably hoping that like yeah you're
33:50
able to kill this guy so the boys are tied up in this abandoned Schoolhouse or Sarah their mom and Mary
33:59
who's tolbert's wife they come to the schoolhouse and they cry and they pray and they beg for the freedom and the
34:07
Hatfields are like no if Allison dies they die Allison dies spoiler alert from all the stuff and all three McCoys are
34:14
walked like a mile into the woods tied to trees and shot so the shooters are basically every
34:19
single Hatfield johnsie's there devilance is there cotton top Cal a guy named skunk hair because he had a big
34:26
shock of white hair they're all there and they all just like shoot at the same time poor Mary who's tolbert's wife just
34:32
dies of being sad so now I mean can you imagine three of her sons Sarah's Sons
34:37
were just like killed in this like vigilante thing so she just that had the 17 children three of them are dead from
34:43
this everyone's like super you know upset and obviously but now The McCoys
34:49
want revenge from for this Revenge killing and there's a man that comes to
34:54
town for he was a bounty hunter and his name is bad Frank Phillips
35:01
bad Frank yeah the governor of Kentucky Simon Buckner bucker appoints him a
35:06
special sheriff and bad friend comes to town to help The McCoys get the Hatfields for this for this vigilante
35:12
murderer who care like all they're just serial killers like who who's keeping
35:18
count at this point um just assume that all your family members are gonna die and then you're going to kill theirs like well everyone
35:25
I mean like the basically the governor his stance is like you're giving us a bad name like your
35:31
people are some people would you get caught in the crosshairs he's like you guys have to cut it out you can't just have like a violent area where you kill
35:37
each other like this point yeah it's probably not good for tourism yeah you just can't so
35:43
bad Frank the first first McCoy he kills the skunk hair or the first Hatfield he kills the skunk hair because he's the
35:50
guy who has like that like shock of white hair that's why it's called that and he scalps him and brings his scalp to prove that he's dead which is gross
35:56
and also makes sense because he has a special hair so now other things are happening John's
36:02
a Nancy are married Nancy's brother Jackson gets into a drunken fight with a mailman and kills him
36:08
just no one knows why I got in a fight so now there's a bounty on Jackson McCoy's head and he goes and lives with
36:14
Nancy and johnsie and John's he's like doesn't love this he's the one elf an outlaw McCoy at his house and he tells
36:20
his brothers that Jackson is there and they come and get him they chase him across the tug and they shoot him so now Nancy's mad because her husband told his
36:28
family where the where her brother was but like what'd you think was gonna happen Nancy you're married to a Hatfield in the middle of this and
36:36
so she starts telling bad Frank things and they end up hooking up she has a
36:41
couple Nancy has a couple of kids with bad Frank while he's married to someone else and while she's married to johnsy
36:47
but eventually they do get married and I just wrote Nancy for [ __ ] sake like virgin girl so now the Hatfields are
36:55
being hunted by The McCoys and bad Frank for the murder of the three McCoy boys and they're pissed so the Hatfields do
37:02
another horrible thing on January 1st 1888 they ambushed the McCoy house while
37:09
everybody is sleeping this is called the New Year's night Massacre Randall McCoy runs his wife Sarah is
37:16
like run they're after you they want to kill you because you're the you know you're the the man you just run and go
37:23
so Randall McCoy runs out the back and no one sees him leave there's a couple other people in the house there's a lot of kids in the house there's alafaya's
37:30
oldest daughter she's 27 but she's there to like help take care of all the kids tolbert's son is there so one of the men
37:36
who died his son's there lots of other kids crazy Uncle Jim Hatfield who killed Harmon throws Molotov cocktails into the
37:44
house and now the house is on fire and it's full of women and children one of the Hatfield's cap I've said his name a
37:50
couple times but he's essentially the meanest Hatfield and he injured his eye in like a gun thing when he was a kid so
37:56
he has like one Milky eye and when he died in 1930 they found a bullet next to his brain which they think maybe made
38:02
him like so super aggressive but cap is there all the Hatfields are there they're shooting at the house the house
38:08
is now on fire women have buttermilk and a little bit of water but they can't put the fire out
38:14
um this is the 1870s isn't it it's 1888. okay okay that makes sense that he died
38:20
in 1930. okay yeah yeah the women are trying to put the fire out they can't do it Cal McCoy he gets goes to the attic
38:28
and tries to shoot from there they'd actually cut like holes in the attic wall to shoot out of like a fort like a
38:34
medieval Fortress even though it's a one-room cabin if something has happened so he's shooting out there the house is
38:39
filled with smoke and Alafaya the oldest daughter takes the children and runs from the house
38:44
they run out the back cap and cotton top see them and cap yells the cotton top to
38:50
shoot her and cotton top shoots her and kills her so Alafaya dies and the girls run hide in the woods they hide for the
38:57
whole night they're gonna end up with like frostbite injuries but they get out in the book it says that Alafaya lives
39:03
long enough to say it was cap and no one else who shot her when asked I don't know if that's true but if it is true it
39:10
sounds like she said it to be very nice because cotton top did shoot her but cap told him to and cotton
39:16
top was like not all there right right so that's super unfair how the McCoy boy leaves the house he's
39:23
off also killed this is like Sarah has had so many bad days in this so Sarah
39:28
McCoy the mom is freaking out she leaves the house she knows alafaya's dead she
39:34
knows Cal is dead she knows it's all because her three boys are dead and Uncle crazy Uncle Jim hits her with his
39:39
rifle and she passes out she survives but she's like laying in the snow all night because they have like attacked
39:45
and burned down their house that's horrifying and now they have to get the Hatfields
39:52
for doing this to the McCoy so it's just like back and forth back and forth between 1880 and 1891 like the height of
40:00
the feud you know over a dozen people died of the two families so it's like a lot of people are dying because of this
40:06
there's a little battle called The Battle of Grapevine Creek to get the Hatfields arrested for the murder and
40:12
that involves more like actual law enforcement because the governor is really pissed he's like stop doing this so they do go to trial and on August
40:19
24th 1888 eight of the Hatfields and some other co-conspirators are indicted for murder
40:25
it includes cap John Z Robert and Elliott Hatfield Ellison mounts French Ellis Charles
40:31
Giuseppe and Thomas Chambers most of them get life in prison which doesn't
40:36
mean life because they get out you know in a couple years John Z gets married four more times after the story ends so
40:43
like they get a lot of them get to go out and live their lives but cotton top gets sentenced to die because he's the
40:49
one that killed alafair so this is a big deal like this is the thing that's in the paper people come from all over
40:55
there's like thousands of people that come to watch this this poor boy get get hungry he's the one who's not all there
41:00
yes and it's a big deal like people get get
41:06
hanged all the time in this area but nobody had officially been hanged by the government in 40 years and it would
41:11
never happen again after this because it was just so awful so poor cotton top is
41:17
taken to the Gallows on a wagon sitting on top of his own coffin they take him
41:22
from the tail yeah from the jail to The Gallows they there's a picture there's
41:28
like one photograph of it they um string them up his last words are the Hatfields
41:33
made me do it and he is a Hatfield that's the last thing he yells because he knows that like cap told him to do it
41:38
and he didn't really know what's going on and he killed alafair so he's he's hanged it's in the paper or
41:44
all these things and this is like sort of the end because it was so awful you know it was so awful about it was it
41:50
like was it did his neck not break no no not not like the hanging itself but like the fact that after this murder of like
41:57
women and children and they like attacked and burned down the McCoy house that like
42:04
after that the Justice was like hanging a person who was not all there it just like got gross you know people were just
42:10
like upset and it's sort of the spot in the in the miniseries as well where they're like it kind of gets boring
42:16
after this because they kind of are like whoa we really have done a lot we should calm down like people are like need to
42:21
recover like the McCoy's rebuild their house like the Hatfields are all in jail they need to like recover everyone is
42:28
tired most of the aggressors are in prison or dead and so that's how it kind
42:33
of like Peters out so the really the highlights were those like The McCoys being boys being killed in the woods and
42:39
then the half the um McCoy house being burnt down and the two men lived for a
42:44
long time devil ants doesn't die until 1921. he dies at the age of 81
42:49
um of pneumonia Randall dies at 88 after after uh
42:55
getting burned from a cooking fire so he just he doesn't even die of old age he dies of Burns in the miniseries there's
43:01
like this scene that's incredible where Bill Paxton now has a white beard and white hair and he's burning he's like in
43:08
his PJs and he's burning a bunch of like newspapers and pictures of his family and drinking whiskey and it gets out of
43:13
control and that's why how his house burns down but everything else is a cooking fire but he doesn't he does for
43:18
a fire and today there's still Hatfields and McCoys living in the same place like
43:24
there's still people there there have been a few public truces most recently in 2003 in the wake of 9 11. Rio
43:32
Hatfield was one of the Hatfields there and some McCoys sign a truce along
43:38
with 60 members of both families and this is the quote they say when they are
43:43
signing the truce they say we ask by God's grace and love that we forever be remembered as those that bound together
43:50
the hearts of two families to form a family of freedom in America we're not saying that you don't have to
43:57
fight because sometimes you do have to fight but you don't have to fight forever that's nice yeah
44:03
that's it I'm sorry so 911 is what brought this to a conclusion yeah because they were like we can't be
44:09
fighting inside America we have enemies and I guess I mean it could be under any other world wars
44:16
yeah there's been a lot of other situations where America's been attacked Pearl Harbor is a big one I know I don't
44:22
know that's what they did that's what they did most recently hey so where where do I find the mini-series what is
44:28
it on it's on Netflix okay perfect it's called Hatfields and McCoys three episodes it's fun a lot of
44:35
shooting a lot of great accents I love that stuff so much I think the longer I've been in Texas moving back the more
44:43
in into what I've gotten it's just it's old-timey every like I was thinking like where you were talking I was like this
44:49
should create a new category of serial killers which is like families like it's
44:55
not like one person necessarily including people in succession it's like this one family just had this like blood
45:01
but these two families had this bloodlust and um they really
45:06
executed on it yeah so many people died so many people were like permanently
45:11
injured you know and it's like a time when you know it's enjoying a civil war you
45:18
know if they shot in the leg they cut off your leg and you probably died from blood loss you know it's not like the
45:23
height of of medicine either so a lot of people yeah just getting hurt and hurting each other because their
45:29
feelings are hurt because you know they think they were betrayed in some way it's like when you tell someone to like calm down because they're like that guy
45:35
said something to me and they won't calm down and you're like who cares but like escalated times the bajillion how did
45:42
you come up with Hatfield and McCoys like what was the impetus for that
45:47
about what did I do last week I think I was just I don't
45:53
I don't know where they came from I have like a list of ideas and I kind of go through it sometimes and then I'll be like oh what about this and then just
45:59
whatever so I started this two weeks ago because I read I had to read a book and watch a mini series
46:04
so what's the red flag well I think they in the book they specifically say the red flag is when
46:10
when Randall McCoy disowned his daughter for being with John Z like that was like
46:15
a no turning back point and it's like the red flag is like these injust these
46:21
perceived injustices some of them obviously are real because people died like to escalate to just Madness so you
46:28
just like get so angry that you can't do anything but do but like avenge it and that's like also like if you're in
46:35
McCoy don't marry Hatfields yeah just don't I was gonna say like like that's probably the biggest takeaway for me is
46:41
like if your family's in a feud and they yeah you know that they kill each other regularly yeah
46:47
why pour gas on that like oh my God like Romeo and Juliet exactly you're both gonna die you idiots yeah don't do that
46:53
exactly there's tons of other people wild wild stuff wow um
46:59
well I'm gonna go ahead and transition us over to the True Crime part of our
47:04
day all right I'll get some gutter water to drink you'll understand I will tell you the names of these
47:10
people and I want you to Google them because you look at their pictures and you're just like [ __ ] dirt animals
47:16
like they're just garbage trashy Linda like obviously are florida-based or not
47:22
florida-based actually but like the clients were in Florida it's like whatever it's they just fit a certain
47:28
I'm actually like the red flag here is specifically about this relationship where it's like if you know if the
47:35
person you're dating is sewage water personified like just don't and then
47:40
he's like I have a plan to get us rich just don't listen oh no maybe it's just fun maybe just a fun dude that you hang
47:46
out with you ride the back of his motorcycle like fine do that but like if there ever comes this time when you're scheming or drafting plans that's when
47:53
you cut bait and run that's definitely fair don't don't scheme yes yes so
48:01
well I was gonna I'm segwaying too far into it I'm going to start with the outline and then we'll we'll talk our way through this so I will say this past
48:07
week has been rather interesting so it's been conference season in the political attack land and so last week I attended
48:13
one that was in Austin and I have another one in Denver and then the following one in Palm Springs where I could hopefully get to see you and I
48:20
kind of feel terrible saying this but a fun thing also happened last week in the
48:25
middle of all these conferences which was this renewed interest in an Austin serial killer
48:32
well like let's not say renewed so like more so initially there was initial suspicions that Austin had a serial
48:38
killer and now more and more people are getting him almost saying yes there is like like right now right now we're
48:45
living in this moment right now which is like I shouldn't be so excited about it I know no it's exciting people had
48:51
families and God love them but it is kind of awesome to be in the middle of
48:56
it unless I'm a victim but apparently so between 2008 and now about 30 men in
49:03
their 20s to 40s have been pulled from what is now called ladybird Lake it used to be called Town Lake basically it's that iconic Lake in the middle of
49:09
Central Austin that people paddle board on the police aren't really saying much which is they're just basically saying
49:15
these are drunk accidental drownings yeah no but this space yeah with this
49:21
Facebook group that popped up like all these people are like they know these people are like no I was
49:26
with him that night he wasn't drinking or somebody's in there is like my son doesn't swim he can't swim he's
49:32
terrified of water he would never willingly go into water or never yeah so this this Facebook group just like
49:38
exploded in popularity which is I'll invite you to it I feel like you'd really get a kick out of it or Blair I mean Blair's probably already in it
49:45
because it is the biggest thing in Austin right now well they they just cost a serial killer in New York who was
49:52
drugging men at gay bars and stealing from them and but they would a lot of them would die
49:58
so apparently there's a whole theory around this so yeah at first I was going to discuss the
50:05
the serial killings and all these deaths that are going around it I ended up going down this Rabbit Hole of What's
50:11
called the smiley face murder Theory have you heard of this before yeah so I'll give the brief summary
50:17
which is this theory that was put forth by several law enforcement professionals and professors involved in criminal justice where they've documented all
50:24
these deaths deaths of seemingly able-bodied men in their 20s to 40s found dead in bodies of water
50:30
and they theorize that there's approximately 45 deaths across 11 states that fall into the category of smiley
50:37
face murders yeah which is like such an awesome concept like
50:44
the term smiley face comes from graffiti smiley faces that are found near some of
50:49
the bodies and they think that that's basically the killer trying to troll law enforcement
50:55
and they did find in these killings yellow graffiti sorry we don't know what
51:02
they are we're calling the maximum drownings near where some of these bodies were recovered the police did
51:07
find yellow graffiti smiley faces on the pavement wow but it could have been someone
51:13
trolling right it could have been it might not even be the killer it could be just it also could have been I
51:19
definitely looked up I feel like I read something about it where it's like it could also be just like a coincidence
51:24
yeah you could also make sense yeah but like also like I don't know how many coincidences you need for it to like be a thing but they were like you know
51:31
there's if you if you're looking for a smiley face graffiti you're gonna see it that's fair you know but also like it
51:38
could be more than one person there's so many fun things it could be you know what I mean that's why the
51:44
smiley face mirror theory is like really interesting because it would either denote one really really clever
51:51
serial killer or like a tag team network of serial killers which is like that
51:57
should be a movie that's definitely a movie so I was going to cover all this that's what I was gonna do for this week's
52:03
episode but the problem is all these debt all these victims show up as external drownings we know some details
52:09
about their death or like theories around them because again people hung out but they're all in this group they're all like talking about they're
52:15
like friends but again like the police aren't saying anything at this moment they're
52:20
basically like no accidental deaths but like they're doing a deliberate right like they're trying to not release information to the publics when they do
52:26
catch someone it's like this was not public how did you know this you know yeah exactly one
52:31
of those things so because all these deaths are right now only officially considered
52:37
accidental there's really no red flaggy part of this I would really just only be doing it out of
52:44
that's going on right now so I guess like the only red flag here is like Just Don't Go Near bodies of water when
52:50
you've been roofied or if you're wasted so I went a different direction I went with
52:56
another curiosity of True Crime that is exceptionally rare women on death row oh so as of right now
53:05
there are 2 364 men on Death Row
53:11
Taylor guess that was my dog shaking I did not fart just everybody knows if you don't have to call this out now
53:18
Taylor I heard the dog thank you Taylor guess how many women are on death row I just gave you the number of men it's
53:23
2300. 20.
53:34
so two percent of all people on death row are women so it's exceptionally rare
53:40
to land on death row and be a woman so
53:45
when women do get the death sentence their crimes are particularly [ __ ] up
53:52
it's interesting because the correlation between who gets the death penalty and who doesn't does have to do with race
53:57
but not in the way you might think it does it actually boils down to the victim rather than erase the perpetrator
54:04
so it doesn't matter if it's a white guy killing a white guy or a black guy killing a white guy it matters that it's
54:11
like a white victim that usually results in uh enforcement of the death penalty so the other victim related Factor has
54:18
to do with how they were killed and where they were in society and whether
54:24
they were part of a protective class in society so think kids the elderly the mentally or physically infirmed like
54:29
those all kind of factor into things I'm gonna get a lot more into what's called aggravating factors here in a moment but that's something you to know
54:36
the person I'm covering today her name is Tiffany Cole Taylor Telegraph
54:43
yeah go ahead c-o-l-e yeah
54:49
I don't know if she looks familiar okay maybe if I start telling the story it'll start ringing a bell because her
54:56
what she did was again particularly [ __ ] up all right
55:02
yeah so Tiffany kind of checked all the boxes of who you shouldn't kill if you're
55:10
trying not to get the needle in 2005 Tiffany would have been 24 years old
55:16
we don't know a ton about our childhood except that she was acquainted with her victims by way of her father and they
55:22
grew up in South Carolina Tiffany and her father were neighbors of the victims that we're going to be discussing here
55:28
in a moment their names are Carol and Reggie Sumner so the Summoners had
55:34
planned because at this time they're living in South Carolina the Summers had planned to move to Jacksonville Florida
55:39
and sell their house and in the middle of selling stuff away they actually sold their old car to Tiffany before they
55:45
moved they apparently had a really really good relationship because they also let it be
55:50
known that if Tiffany was ever in Jacksonville to look them up they basically treated her like their
55:55
granddaughter in many ways and just yeah the Summoners were in their 60s and not doing great health-wise
56:01
they look very sweet she Carol Sumner looked at the smile on
56:07
her face is so infectious yeah they really look like just like your typical
56:13
old cup old white couple yeah they look very lovely yeah yeah
56:19
in April of 2005 Tiffany got involved with a guy whose name is kind of
56:25
unfortunate it's Michael Jackson is the name of the guy and yeah why would you do that you already knew
56:32
thank you if there's Michael Jackson it's over for everybody else
56:38
yeah which which like for SEO purposes it's also just a terrible name they just didn't foresee how big SEO is going to
56:44
be but Heather Locklear in high school poor thing really yeah oh my God I felt
56:49
so bad for her it's tough it sucked yeah but there were parents deliberately named her Heather right no that's what I'm saying yeah
56:56
yeah like this Michael Jackson's parents didn't have not not heard of Michael Jackson yeah if I ever become if I mean when
57:02
this podcast makes us famous you know there's so many farmer soaking sandwiches so many far more soaking
57:08
sandwiches it'll be the hot the hot name on the list baby boy list in America farmer smoking
57:15
the whole thing not just your first name yeah I know your segment's gonna have to expand into a lot more names
57:23
so yeah this is April 2005. Tiffany's now dating this guy Michael who's just [ __ ] garbage like I don't I don't
57:29
mean to be so elitist about this but look at this guy look up Tiffany Cole and Michael Jackson because that's the only way you're ever gonna find this guy
57:35
because they're never gonna find a Googling Michael Jackson that's really funny um wait I'm gonna do it with you so I'm
57:41
gonna see what the first results are because I'm still looking at Nancy McCoy
57:46
yeah yeah I see it he has a lot of us he keeps his sunglasses on his forehead
57:52
oh God number one note he just looks like God
57:58
so [ __ ] gotcha garbage whatever doesn't matter
58:03
again ride the motorcycle with this guy don't yeah yeah don't take investment
58:08
advice from this guy well he he is a type yes garbage
58:14
um is a type so in June of 2005 so two months after
58:20
Tiffany and Michael got involved with each other Michael wanted to go down to visit his friend in Jacksonville this
58:25
guy named Wade okay so Tiffany takes the Summoners up on their offer if
58:30
you're ever in Jacksonville give us a shout so she calls them letting them know that they're gonna be in town the Summoners let them stay at their home
58:36
for a night and I mean they were just that couple really you know what
58:42
yeah you get older people don't pay enough as much attention to you as they used to and when somebody says they're
58:48
gonna come visit you get all excited and yay let's meet your [ __ ] chin strap bearded [ __ ] Michael Jackson
58:55
ugh it's just just to be I mean anyone to be nice I'd be like sure I don't know
59:01
yeah yeah yeah you're nicer than I am I think but I am
59:06
that was my chair I gotta call this out every single time so the Summers let him stay at their
59:13
house and they made him breakfast and during breakfast they let them know for no reason in particular that they
59:21
profited 99 000 on the sale of their home in South Carolina that that came
59:26
out somehow organic or not so Michael and Tiffany move on with their
59:31
Jacksonville trip and hang out with Wade but it was after this experience that Michael concluded that they need to rob
59:37
the Summoners for the 99 000. wow again this I'm just gonna flag that
59:44
this is like I didn't know that this is elitism but who in their right mind thinks that
59:51
somebody has 99 000 of cash on them right that's true wait
59:58
it's not like that this guy Michael but not they sold their house like great give it to me in ones I'm gonna bring it
1:00:04
home in a suitcase yes sure and then assume that this guy is
1:00:10
any better plan than there's [ __ ] nine nine thousand dollars under their mattress like look that's the plan whatever I'm not oh my God no that's I I
1:00:18
I feel like I didn't get it that's what I thought until you said that and I'm like oh he literally thinks that that money is there because I understand
1:00:24
telling somebody that in the conversation you know this is like and this is like pre-zilla but now that we have Zillow you could have figured that
1:00:30
out you know like it tells you how much money people make so I know how much money you made from the sale of your house but yeah I don't assume that you
1:00:37
have that cash in your car like I assume that that money is in a bank yeah I I was um this goes back
1:00:44
to the elitism thing I was like our bank accounts a rich person only commodity they there are definitely a
1:00:51
lot of people especially in like probably in like more poor areas and big cities who are unbanked which means they
1:00:58
don't have a bank and they don't because they don't they just like never had one or they don't have
1:01:04
available available one or they do everything in cash or whatever but there
1:01:09
are there are a fair amount of unbanked people or they don't how many this is a silent portion of our pocket approximately 5.9
1:01:16
million people are on bank so that's 4.5 percent of U.S households don't have bank account at all yeah I would assume
1:01:22
that that has something to do with like what's that term redlining where like
1:01:28
you weren't allowed to like certain cities were set up in a way that they were like yeah deliberately forced
1:01:36
minorities into definitely and they wouldn't they they also don't have post offices they don't have grocery stores
1:01:41
they're not Banks right like but this guy's white like the I don't like I mean you see his picture like
1:01:46
I don't know I mean he should I mean he just doesn't seem very smart yeah and also the other thing I wrote
1:01:52
here like again like the elitism part of it is like Michael came up so later
1:01:58
we'll explain this later on so Wade the friend that they were visiting in Jacksonville and then Wade's friend
1:02:04
Nixon were also in on this plan to Rob this elderly couple they kind of put all
1:02:10
this together on their own I I wrote here I was like I don't I don't like it my friends are like you
1:02:16
Taylor like I don't right if I was like hey let's go [ __ ] knock over a feeble elderly couple like who do I ask that of
1:02:23
like I have no friends to do that with this guy's just tripping over them the first guy he sees after devises his plan
1:02:29
is [ __ ] Wade and then Wade's like hey not only am I down my buddy Nixon is also in like
1:02:36
super chill with this idea like again I don't have these thoughts in my mind but
1:02:43
like it's just interesting to this guy just trips over three willing participants yeah a minute because of
1:02:50
this plan it's definitely a different Circle than your circle did you ever watch the good place yeah
1:02:55
um remember how the one guy from Jacksonville he died because he was trying to rob a store and they put him
1:03:00
inside a safe to put in the store but he brought a snorkel so he could breathe but they didn't have anywhere to put the snorkel out so he suffocated
1:03:07
and that's how he died because some and his friends are trying to wrap to Rob something and they were trying to sneak
1:03:12
him in that is a Jacksonville death I will say that yeah just reminded me
1:03:18
so yeah I guess so yeah I mean I feel like there's there's a portion of like how do you he obviously like they're
1:03:24
it's a I mean I don't think that Michael Jackson came from a place where he like had a lot of like access to education it
1:03:30
sounds like you know and that can be like part of the tragedy too if you're like pump with these ideas like aren't
1:03:36
very good there's literally no way in hell I can look at these pictures and look at that disgusting chin strap
1:03:43
[ __ ] Ginger beard in oh so also 2005. stop trying to make excuses for this I'm
1:03:50
making awful excuses well I know I'm just okay keep going what listen to what they did to this
1:03:56
couple no they're terrible people I'm not I'm not making excuses for all the terribleness
1:04:01
okay so this stage so we got our four participants in this we have Tiffany
1:04:06
Michael Wade and Nixon so this is when the planning gets
1:04:12
involved with this party of four so part of the planning here will basically give away the end results but I'll try to
1:04:19
maintain some suspense here okay Nixon was 18 of this time actually Wade was also 18 at this time Tiffany
1:04:26
and Michael were the same age they were both like 23 24. so Nixon's job was to steal four shovels not buy steel
1:04:35
Tiffany was responsible for renting a car which I don't even get like how would renting a car under your own name
1:04:42
and driver's license obfuscate anything I don't I didn't see what the logic of it it was just as good to drive her car
1:04:48
that the summer solder than to rent one right then the four of them went to find
1:04:54
a remote location in Georgia right across the Florida border and dig a giant hole basically this part
1:05:04
of uh the country is terrifying it is so hot it's so humid it's so full of
1:05:09
mosquitoes and animals that you hear in the distance that you don't want to come across it is terrifying oh my God like
1:05:15
alligators and steaks yeah like on in a moonless night like there's nothing like
1:05:20
you see nothing it is it's a swamp so anyways they go to this location they
1:05:27
start digging the hole the hole itself is four feet deep and six feet along all
1:05:33
four sides okay so that's the dimensions that we're talking about here which like could have been easy right like that's a
1:05:39
pretty damn big hole I've been planting flowers and doing like a little well I
1:05:45
have I'm also on like pure sand but it's hard yeah yeah yeah it's part of what I
1:05:51
was like this had to take so long and you're like thinking to yourself like what's coming next like it's already
1:05:57
been devised and there's no I don't know Michael must been just a complete trauma just
1:06:02
convince these folks to do this so we're a month from When Tiffany and
1:06:08
Michael first visited the Summoners so we're in July now I'm gonna get into the crime now and I
1:06:14
want to replace that or preface that by asking you to oh you already did never mind this is a part of the podcast I'm
1:06:21
gonna ask you to look up the Summers tell me what you think but you did and yeah yeah so I think that that's also
1:06:27
like why why wouldn't you talk it's like let your neighbor kid sit your house I would totally do that like if any of the
1:06:33
kids I know in town right now in 10 years were like oh I'm back in town I'd be like oh my God stay here like I would
1:06:39
never I just wouldn't think you know yeah I mean that was that's the part of
1:06:45
the predation that Tiffany brings this equation that makes it particularly awful what ends up happening to them
1:06:52
because she didn't know Michael or Wade or the summer Michael waited any of
1:06:58
these guys like it was Tiffany who knew them and like brought this gaggle of morons into their lives man
1:07:05
so on July 8th of 2005 the foursome drove to the Sumner's house and Tiffany
1:07:10
and Michael parked outside while Nixon and Wade went up to that house they knocked on the door and asked they could
1:07:16
use her phone Carol let her in despite being strangers she just saw two lost 18 year olds and wanted to help because
1:07:22
that's the kind of person she was you just don't think this bad yeah uh once inside Wade tore
1:07:30
the phone cord from the wall and Nixon held Carol and Reggie at gunpoint put him in the bathroom and then duct tape
1:07:37
them so they were bound Wade used to walkie-talkie to tell Michael that they
1:07:42
were tied up and he made his way to the house while this was going on apparently Tiffany drove the rental car around so
1:07:48
it wasn't weird to just have someone sitting outside in the rental car the three guys ransacked the house
1:07:53
looking for money valuables anything uh ninety thousand dollars in cash to
1:07:59
continue Carol and Reggie were then taken to their garage and put into the trunk of
1:08:06
the Lincoln Town Car they owned they're bound up still way to Nixon drove the town car while
1:08:13
tit Michael and Tiffany got in the rented car and started riding out to the place in Georgia where they dug the hole
1:08:18
why people
1:08:25
that makes no sense like they could have just like left
1:08:30
because you know what it is Taylor it's because all these people think that they're not gonna get caught but it's like you're gonna get caught cell phones
1:08:38
we have Towers we have cameras we have people who care about people who like
1:08:43
will call and look into things and like anyways so they Ben took Carol and
1:08:49
Reggie from the Lincoln town car and put them in the Holy dug alive and started
1:08:55
shoveling dirt on top of them what yeah okay I just when I was you know like the
1:09:02
joke is like when you were little you thought that like quicksand and the Bermuda Triangle were going to be big
1:09:07
problems and like they're not big problems but I remember just being so [ __ ] scared of being buried alive and
1:09:14
they had there was like some like made for TV movie maybe that like happened when I was a kid like they buried a girl alive and like whatever I just like it
1:09:21
was just like it's like my biggest fear it's awful yeah I would I mean
1:09:26
rightfully so I think yeah yeah this would remind me of that um do you remember the scene in Casino where they
1:09:34
beat Joe pescien or his brother with baseball bats in the cornfield then
1:09:39
throw them alive into the hole it was basically that like except they didn't beat him they literally they were
1:09:45
able they were well they were old and feeble so they couldn't really protect themselves but they were just sitting in
1:09:50
that this hole and they were duct taped they had a duct tape [ __ ] so
1:09:58
spoiler alert when the bodies were eventually found they in when they were
1:10:04
found it was discovered that there was dirt clogging their airways
1:10:10
right they're drowned in dirt they literally died of being buried alive
1:10:17
I'm like it's just awful yeah I can't imagine how
1:10:22
scary and awful because like yeah you see your wife is next to you I know it's like oh God
1:10:29
so bad so sad yeah apparently Michael had originally devised a scheme where he was going to inject them with medication
1:10:35
to kill them first but what was Michael he is doing how to do that where was he
1:10:40
going first off does he know how to like where did you know what blood vessels are he doesn't know what bank accounts
1:10:46
are does he even know where to find a blood vessel what do you know what to point to like I've watched a bunch of movies and been
1:10:53
like oh I'll just like induct them with something you don't know what that is like what could that even possibly be yeah
1:10:59
but I mean look they had shovels like hit them in the head like anything anything is better than consciously
1:11:05
being thrown into a whole bound that you can't escape you're gonna kill them anyway like they have a little bit of
1:11:11
like have a little bit of humanity while you're murdering this couple yeah we can also keep picturing it like
1:11:18
actually close my eyes and picture it and look at it from their perspective like not the Summer's perspective from
1:11:23
the Killer's perspective where it's like you're 18 and you have this couple in this hole and you're just like shoveling
1:11:29
in this like moonless nice like it's just crazy like anyways that's terrible
1:11:35
so fast forwarding a couple of days after this event um The Summer's daughter reported her parents missing to the police and only
1:11:42
four days after the home invasion of murder police started noticing that some sums of money were being withdrawn from
1:11:48
The Summer's account so I guess they finally did realize that money wasn't kept you know in the house and
1:11:54
apparently like they went and found like I don't know Bank information so Kudos some for that to evade capture and any
1:12:01
suspicion that something was going on Michael called the police as Reggie
1:12:07
sound like oh we're fine like we're just out of town for a little bit like it's like he didn't call the daughter because
1:12:13
he didn't have the daughter's info he called the police and she would know you know I would know if like it wasn't my
1:12:18
dad it was an 18 year old being like I'm fine what the [ __ ] did he do can you imagine
1:12:23
when this guy's voice sounds like guy one yeah so bad he's like a this specific type of
1:12:29
douchebag that I particularly have disdain for again look at this guy's pictures anyways uh apparently then they
1:12:37
said they want to talk to Carol and so Michael handed the phone to Tiffany and
1:12:42
Tiffany pretended to be Carol so that was there that was their game plan that's awful the police were obviously
1:12:49
suspicious this does not sound like a 60 something year old couple like this is obviously kids so they use a cell tower
1:12:56
thing the pain concept triangulate where this call was being originated from uh they also bounced the number that was
1:13:03
called in from uh rental car companies and discovered that Tiffany had rented a car for like during this time period so
1:13:09
the police assessed that okay it's gonna be from like this region of the city
1:13:15
because cell tower data isn't precise right it just gives you a rough approximation so please drive around they know what the car is that she'd
1:13:21
rent it and then they look for that in in this area and they find find them so they were all holed up in a hotel while
1:13:28
Michael Michael Wade and um Tiffany were holed up in a hotel and there they found
1:13:34
all the Summoners info like the [ __ ] that they sold from their house basically
1:13:40
so obviously they had enough at this point to arrest them Nixon was the only one with the decency to plead guilty
1:13:46
again he was only 18 and really like the least involved in any of this wages sort
1:13:51
of dragged him into it Michael and Wade were found guilty of SEC two counts of first degree murder
1:13:58
and given two death penalty death sentences each Tiffany was convicted of four counts of
1:14:04
first three murder two counts of kidnapping and two counts of robbery and she also got two death sentences but
1:14:09
they attacked on stuff too right it's like 15 years for the kidnapping it was like who cares you got the death sentence like it doesn't matter right so
1:14:16
I went down a bit of a legal procedural Rabbit Hole here because the death
1:14:22
penalty in general just fascinates me in the case of really really interesting so in death penalty cases there are
1:14:28
mitigating and aggravating circumstances circumstances when deciding on the
1:14:34
appropriate punishment for example a mitigating circumstance could be hey here's history of emotional
1:14:39
and sexual abuses person was on the tail end of growing up maybe factor that in when you decide how bad
1:14:46
of a person he turned out to be or in aggravating circumstance can be things like the manner of death or your
1:14:54
previous charges or like other elements that are like uh this makes it so much worse finally you you counter these two
1:15:01
right mitigating versus aggravating decide whether or not a death sense makes sense and I remember this from
1:15:06
from living in Florida at the time when this case was going on the Ford was one of the few states where you did not need
1:15:13
a unanimous vote for death you need majority vote for death yeah so
1:15:18
very unique on the at on the aggravating circumstance when it comes to manner of death that they look at there's a
1:15:25
concept called hack h a c which stands for heinous atrocious or cruel factors
1:15:31
so again because it's the law all these things get further defined so heinous literally means in this within the legal
1:15:38
framework means extremely Wicked or shockingly evil atrocious means
1:15:43
outrageously Wicked and vile and cruel means
1:15:49
pitiless designed to inflict a high degree of pain or utter indifference to or the enjoyment of the suffering of
1:15:55
others so because of the manner of death that
1:16:00
happened this Summoners Tiffany case obviously qualified for hack aggravators because it was just an insanely cruel
1:16:07
way to kill somebody basically yeah Tiffany on appeal said that the hack
1:16:13
aggravators were incorrectly applied to her case because she didn't have actual knowledge of how the team the the three
1:16:20
other guys were going to kill the sumners she didn't she was like yeah I
1:16:26
brought it I made all this happen because I brought them to the Summoners but I didn't know this is what they're
1:16:31
gonna do the Appellate Court agreed with Tiffany's argument because nobody could prove she designed or had
1:16:39
any hand in how the Summers were killed but the court also concluded that if the
1:16:45
hack aggravators were struck it wouldn't change anything it would make a difference she'd still like it
1:16:50
wouldn't like because apparently she I went and read her um
1:16:56
the uh appeals motion followed by her lawyers and Tiffany had
1:17:03
seven aggravators hack was only one of them so the other aggravators that she
1:17:09
had were having previously convicted being convicted of another Capital felony because
1:17:14
legally like one pre one dot they didn't die the same time because like you can't
1:17:20
prove any of that it's like because one was after the other it's sequential order she was already convicted of a
1:17:25
capital felony even though it was the same murder right oh my God the murders were committed in the course of a kidnapping which she did get 15 years
1:17:32
for so though she was convicted of that the capital felonies were committed in a cold calculated and premeditated manner
1:17:39
definitely that they were committed for financial gain definitely that they were committed to avoid or prevent a lawful
1:17:45
arrest because they the Assumption was we'll kill them and then nobody will know we did this right
1:17:51
right and the one I mentioned to you before the very top of this was the victims were particularly vulnerable
1:17:57
vulnerable due to Advanced age or disability so that's a big aggravator
1:18:02
right there it's like you took advantage of the weakest of society like you deserve the worst of society what are um what
1:18:10
are these pictures of them like in a limo of drinking champagne was that after they said yeah that was after this yeah yeah
1:18:15
such garbage humans like he believes he's buried to people alive and you're like oh here I am in a limo drinking
1:18:22
champagne like being proud of myself [ __ ] you [ __ ] you like holding cash in this limo
1:18:28
yeah she has she she's holding cash in her teeth and Michael's flashing a
1:18:33
champagne it's like what you did to these people is just [ __ ] yeah
1:18:39
reprehensible wow you're so proud of yourself you know look how proud of him until
1:18:44
they are the heights yikes anyways
1:18:51
just looking at this guy's picture makes me so [ __ ] angry this is a terrible story this is terrible
1:18:56
there's a part of me that like maybe I'm so prejudiced towards a guy and I hate him so much that it's
1:19:03
clouding my judgment I mean would any girl get fooled by this guy that like
1:19:08
he's gonna come with a plan like that like it's the it's like I feel like the whatever like he's just like a certain
1:19:15
type of guy in 2005 like that's not that's not it I think the the plan thing
1:19:20
is like yeah nobody you know is a mastermind criminal yeah you know what I mean
1:19:28
especially not this guy and you're not gonna just stumble on them like you're in a recruit a team like Ocean's Eleven right like you have to go find these
1:19:34
people in Paris in Italy like you've done it before and they've never been caught before you're not gonna stumble on you know this peer group in
1:19:41
Jacksonville so anyways so long story short so the the fact that
1:19:48
the Appellate Court reason that look we'll strike the hack but you want to
1:19:54
you have six other aggregators that on their own would never made a difference to your case like it would have you
1:19:59
still would be here so right we strike one of your aggravators so legally she
1:20:04
won that argument but they reaffirmed the sentence in the conviction so she's still on death row
1:20:09
wow yeah yeah all three of them Nixon's only one who
1:20:15
kind of got out of it because he was just a stupid kid and didn't just
1:20:20
listen to it like he was already the momentum was already in motion with or without him so that's why they kind of
1:20:26
um yeah I'm still looking at these pictures of the couple they're so sweet looking poor things they're just like
1:20:31
normal people who trusted their neighbor because why wouldn't you and then this ugh that picture of her in that great
1:20:38
jumpsuit with the with the um cornrows it like yeah she looks like weirdly
1:20:43
Sinister in that one yeah that one's a lot anyways that's my story Taylor it sucks it's awful but
1:20:51
yeah they only killed how so when how do they find them like obviously like it was really easy
1:20:57
but what was that like yeah they yeah they went to the hotel because they trying a little bit because they knew
1:21:03
when they called the police to say y'all are looking for us we're fine but it's like this guy calling you like he's
1:21:09
right yeah he didn't sound like a 65 year old man who's probably chain smoked
1:21:15
his entire life like and then Carol is just Tiffany on the phone like of course it just they're probably giggling to
1:21:20
each other while they're doing this yeah yeah oh totally they totally are they're so proud of themselves like oh my God
1:21:26
we're so smart I can't believe we're gonna go with us all this money that we stole the University of limo is so dumb oh my
1:21:33
God I just realized that Michael has a neck tattoo oh man and he's wearing a
1:21:38
he's wearing a ruby in Gold pinky ring or would you look
1:21:46
that is really funny dating advice by far is literally just look at this guy and if the guy you're with
1:21:52
gives you any of the same Vibes like get away from them that's fair that's fair and you're not
1:21:58
dating a criminal mastermind they're so hard to find masterminds are incredibly hard to find
1:22:04
like because of criminal masterminds yeah they don't need your help it's like when um what you tell children when
1:22:11
about strangers is you say like a grown-up will never need a child's help so if a grown-up comes to you and says
1:22:17
like how do I get here like be weary because grown-ups don't need help from children like that's how people kidnap
1:22:23
children it's the same thing criminal mastermind doesn't need your help yeah you know like they have their own
1:22:29
network it's not you they're not gonna call you and ask you for things I feel like this this was like
1:22:35
totally unrelated but like there's this story of like this guy in Ireland who had convinced all these people that he
1:22:40
was like a big like spy and all these things and they did all these weird things for him because he just like
1:22:46
believed him but you're like he wouldn't be there like he wouldn't be in your small town it's not where criminal masterminds are yeah you know part a
1:22:54
part of me thinks that like if this didn't happen if Michael and Tiffany hadn't met Tiffany probably wouldn't
1:22:59
have gone this route but I think that Michael would have I think Michael was just like such a piece of garbage that
1:23:05
like he he'd be in jail right now anyways self-confidence yes do this when your
1:23:12
confidence doesn't match your wit and intelligence you are [ __ ] yeah that's
1:23:18
just always how it's gonna go and Michael I don't know just describes like Elon Musk
1:23:26
Elon Musk is a billionaire a hundred times over but he has a lot of
1:23:32
self-confidence and makes a lot of weird decisions how are you classifying this guy in Elon Musk in the same breath like
1:23:38
I don't know what would Elon must be like if he ended poor maybe this guy no Elon Musk is a genius this guy probably
1:23:45
doesn't even know how to tie his shoes like what would this guy be like if he was rich he couldn't get rich because he's too stupid looking nope
1:23:52
because he's he he was rich from the beginning that wasn't he was he sort of the PayPal
1:23:58
Mafia with Peter teal and all those guys he's the heir of an emerald mine in
1:24:04
Africa that's not how he got rich he got rich because he invented him and uh Peter he started off a lot okay yeah
1:24:12
yeah knew what a bank account was he probably knew what a bank account was he probably knew that you shouldn't eat
1:24:18
roadkill unlike this guy so that's true yeah you got me there it's a little bit
1:24:23
of a different level but yeah yikes yeah I know this guy sucks I literally didn't kill anybody else I
1:24:31
wonder what he's I'm gonna I'm gonna look up what this guy's been up to he's so hard to find it's like impossible
1:24:37
it's a pretty great that part's pretty great yeah yeah parents would name you Michael
1:24:43
Jackson for [ __ ] sake yeah I [ __ ] this kid we don't want him anyways
1:24:49
like you didn't know about SEO when he was born but still yeah he's gonna grow up to have a chin strap a neck tattoo
1:24:55
and a ruby gold [ __ ] God pinky ring so rude also imagine
1:25:00
what your life was like every time you go somewhere and they say what's your name and you have to say Michael Jackson hello man my name was farmer so
1:25:06
concerned she he added easier than me no uh-uh having a name of the Jackson I think it's harder than Farmers took
1:25:11
advantage you think which is the number one baby name in America I just looked it up former soaking sandwiches
1:25:17
number one baby name coming to but oh my God she's wearing a shirt that
1:25:22
says diva in the back of this limousine that's also very 2005. I'm a little bit of a 2005 apologist because
1:25:30
it wasn't great for everyone look great you were going out of your way you have to find reasons
1:25:35
to defend these monsters I'm just trying to counteract your uh stereotyping
1:25:42
I'm saying everyone dressed terrible in 2005. so my stereotyping is the problem here is what you're saying yes I'm
1:25:48
trying to be a little more PC on our podcast foreign
1:26:03
just been so mad and sad I hope I don't have nightmares up being buried alive tonight
1:26:08
it is the Ultimate Nightmare there's like literally nothing worse I can't think of anything you could do someone
1:26:14
worse some binding them and throwing them alive into a pit on the Georgia Florida border that
1:26:23
sounds exactly where people are buried alive like it is so bad okay that bad stereotype I laugh
1:26:31
at because yes oh that's awful
1:26:38
um Taylor that's my story for the week and that's why like I mentioned uh our drink of the day was drinking [ __ ]
1:26:44
raw sewage water because that's what these humans were so uh out of champagne glasses in a limo they even that you
1:26:50
rented idiots I just saw your text from last night about starting later but I was already asleep
1:26:55
oh it's fine it's fine um I thought I was gonna take a lot more for me to wake up this morning than I
1:27:01
really did I've been up since like 7 A.M my time oh good for you good for you
1:27:07
um cool well thank you farz thank you everyone who's listening finding us on social at Doom to fail pod we're on
1:27:12
YouTube um for for reviewing on Apple podcast you have to download the podcast app on
1:27:17
like your iPhone or your Mac and then you can find us there and then there's like a star rating and a place to leave
1:27:22
a review um should we shout out Juan oh his app yeah yeah oh yeah that's nice of you
1:27:30
um my husband Juan just made an app for mental models he's super into like thinking about better ways to to think
1:27:36
and ways to he's been having a newsletter that goes out weekly that has mental models in it to help you kind of
1:27:42
become a better thinker and now he has an app it's called mental models it has like thousands of mental models in it you can search around and see like what
1:27:49
will help me with my like psychology what will help me with decision making um you can save your favorites it has
1:27:54
dark mode it's super cool he made it himself he also matters yep it's called mental models by Juan Carlos Pinero
1:28:03
no because he had another name on there and I was like where did this where did this like fourth name come from it's a
1:28:09
it's a thing in in Puerto Rico that you can take your mom's last name so oh sorry assess his mom's last name so his
1:28:16
full last name is Juan Carlos Pinero escoriasa just like my kids could choose to be like pineroasteric later got it
1:28:23
got it okay yeah so look it up uh it's a great app I downloaded it and
1:28:29
it if you're even remotely interested in how to think more effectively and
1:28:35
efficiently and you have like a particular drive towards that then this is I've learned so much just like going
1:28:41
through it so oh that's awesome 1010 recommend so awesome yeah cool um yeah
1:28:46
absolutely uh well thank you Taylor have a great first year Saturday and thanks everyone for listening
1:28:56
thank you