Today we travel to Niagara Falls! We will talk about who lived there first, who came next, and what the falls have meant to America and Canada for the past few hundred years! There will be tightropes, barrels, power plants, and lots of people we've seen before in our doomed travels! Have you been to Niagara Falls? Let us know!
Today we travel to Niagara Falls! We will talk about who lived there first, who came next, and what the falls have meant to America and Canada for the past few hundred years! There will be tightropes, barrels, power plants, and lots of people we've seen before in our doomed travels!
Have you been to Niagara Falls? Let us know!
Sources:
Inventing Niagara
by Ginger Strand - https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/inventing-niagara-beauty-power-and-lies_ginger-strand/896545/item/1181539/?#edition=4494064&idiq=2148537
https://www.nfhps.org/echota-planned-community.html
Hi Friends! Our transcripts aren't perfect, but I wanted to make sure you had something - if you'd like an edited transcript, I'd be happy to prioritize one for you - please email doomedtofailpod@gmail.com - Thanks! - Taylor
Taylor: Happy belated post Thanksgiving
>> Taylor: In the matter of the people of the State of California v. Orenthal James Simpson, case number BA097. And so, my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.
>> Farz: And we are back live and doing great. Happy belated post Thanksgiving. Taylor, how are you?
>> Taylor: I'm good. How are you?
>> Farz: I'm good. I'm really glad to be at my own house. And I went to yoga this morning and you know, the people who, like, are the instructors are very kind of woo, woo, and like that. And even they at the very end were like, talk about minimalism. And they were like, and now my resolution after Thanksgiving is to minimize time with my family, but make sure that it's quality time. And everybody just started laughing and, like, cheering. And I was like, yeah, I get it.
>> Taylor: That's hilarious. I love that.
We got Chinese food on actual Thanksgiving Day, not post Thanksgiving week
wait, let me introduce that.
>> Farz: Yep.
>> Taylor: Hello, everyone. Welcome to Doomed to Fail, where the podcast that brings you history's most notorious disasters and epic failures twice a week, every week. And it is the post Thanksgiving week, which is why we're talking about it. And I had two Thanksgivings, not even on the day of Thanksgiving. We got Chinese food on actual Thanksgiving Day.
>> Farz: But it was, it's not like a Jewish tradition on Christmas.
>> Taylor: It is. And we, we called, we have like a, you know, like a hole in the wall takeout Chinese place. And one, one called, and he was like, are you open today? And the woman goes, we're open every day. And okay. It's really funny.
>> Farz: I, I, some, I don't know if this is true or not, or maybe it has something to do with msg, but I do think the hole in wall Chinese places, I generally like those more than, like, I went to, like, a really nice one. There's a really nice one downtown Austin called Key or whatever. It's Qi, like super upscale and super, like, fancy. And for some reason I was like, it just doesn't feel right to not just, like, douse everything in soy sauce and just shovel a bunch of orange chicken in your mouth. Like, it just feels too dainty for that.
>> Taylor: You know, it's a different, it's a different outcome. Like, what do you want, you know, do you want to just, like, eat a bunch of greasy Chinese food, then, like, do it, or do you want to, like, have like a, a long run, out meal with, like, dim sum? Those are two different things.
>> Farz: I mostly just want to, like, drown in soy sauce and, like, not be able to see over my stomach while I'm Watching TV on my back. That's basically it.
>> Taylor: Absolutely. And you're not, like, pretending you're in China. You're like, this is an American experience that I enjoy.
>> Farz: Yes, yes. More love for Panda Express, people.
>> Taylor: Exactly.
>> Farz: cool.
Taylor, tell us your story about Niagara Falls for today's podcast
So let's go ahead and dive in. I think you're going to be telling us your story first today.
>> Taylor: I am. I am. So, Okay, this is, like, I don't think it's going to be long, but I feel like I could talk about it for a very long time. So I am, going to try my best. So last time we talked, I was in Washington state, and I in Spokane, and it rained the entire time. I think I told you that because it's like, it rains there. And we. My husband always wants to, like, get out of the house and do stuff. So we found, like, a little walk. So it was like a walk. It wasn't like a hike. It was like a path. You go and see a waterfall and come back. And so we had, like. We had umbrellas. We did it. We went down to downtown Spokane, and it was actually quite cute. There were some cute little stores and stuff. the kids went on a really old, not, Ferris wheel. What's it called?
>> Farz: Merry Go Round.
>> Taylor: Merry Go Round. Yeah. And they loved it. so that was super fun. But when we were walking to the waterfall, we, like, asked some person, we're like, oh, is a waterfall up there? And they were like, yeah, but it's not on right now. And we were like, what? Okay.
>> Taylor: Which was funny. But also I should have known that because I was in the middle of reading a book for today's topic about a very, very famous waterfall.
>> Farz: Niagara.
>> Taylor: Yes.
>> Farz: Sweet. You know what's funny is my parents just went to Niagara Falls and they. Yeah. And they were so blown away by it. Ah. Like, you know, But I. But I don't know. I. I've never seen it. I don't feel like I would ever. Would I be that impressed by just, like, a really big waterfall?
>> Taylor: I think so. And it's not the biggest waterfall even in the United States, really, but it's just, like, very popular. And let me. I'll tell you all about the history of it and stuff, but I'm interested that your parents just went, because I think toward the end, I have what I think should happen. And I'd love to hear more from that later. Let's do it. So our, friend Kiara actually suggested this, but she suggested the part of the story of people going over the falls And I do, I will have some of that in there. But then I was like, oh God, there's so much more in here about like the history of the area, of the geology, the whole thing. I read one book and there are like a thousand books about Niagara Falls, but I read one called Inventing Niagara by Ginger Strand. So that's where most of my stuff is coming from. that book. So Niagara Falls on the American side as we know it are three separate falls. they were created about 10,000 years ago during the Wisconsin Galatian that created the Great Lakes. So like glaciers, border of Canada, United States kind of area and they start moving things around and they create the Great Lakes, you know.
>> Farz: Yeah, of course, we all know that, Taylor.
>> Taylor: You know what I mean? they've been changing a lot and it's sort of like, well, duh, because due to erosion, a waterfall is going to change. That absolutely makes sense if you think about it. I'm going to read a paragraph from Wikipedia right now to just kind of tell you some of the facts. So Niagara Falls is a group of three waterfalls at the southern end of Niagara Gorge spanning the border between the province of Ontario and Canada and the state of New York in the United States. The largest of the three is Horseshoe Falls, which straddles the international border of the two countries. It is also known as the Canadian Falls, the smaller American Falls and Bridal Veil Falls lie within the United States. Bridal Veil Falls is separated from Horseshoe Falls by Goat island and from American Falls by Luna island, with both island situated in New York. So the little islands that like you can look at the falls from.
>> Farz: Did you say Bridal Veil?
>> Taylor: Yes.
>> Farz: So I went to. Okay, well that must be a common name for when you started talking about waterfalls. The first thought I had was I, did this trip around, New Zealand and I went to Bridal Veil Falls in New Zealand. It's a, ah, I guess just a common name. It's not that.
>> Taylor: Yeah, I mean it looks like a veil. It's white.
>> Farz: Yeah, okay, fine. Yeah, fair point.
>> Taylor: You know, so those are the facts. The people that live there that we know before settlers came were the Seneca people. They're part of the Iroquois nation and they were the most west of the Iroquois speaking people. And they were called the keepers of the western door. So that western door is essentially at the top of the falls. There's like rivers and lakes that go out into the Great Lakes and then can like move you, move you west. the Seneca have an oral tradition, like an oral Story that references an eclipse that we know happened in the 1100s. So they'd been there at least from then, but probably for many hundreds of years before then. today there are about 8,000, people in the Seneca Nation, and they live and work in five reservations in New York, mostly on casinos, around Niagara, falls. So there's a lot of, like, Niagara Falls, casinos and that kind of thing up there. if you go to Niagara Falls like your parents did, they will probably see a myth about, like, a beautiful Native American girl going over the falls in the. In a canoe. And it's for a couple reasons.
There's a myth about Seneca woman going over Niagara Falls
Either she, like, can't marry the man she loves, so she sacrifices herself, or she. Once they want to sacrifice her for, like, rain or whatever, or there's a snake chasing her. There's a lot of, like, a big myth about, like, a young woman going over the falls. That's not true. It's like something that was made up by, like, settlers and stuff, especially because there were no human sacrifices in the Seneca Nation. Like, that was not a thing that they did. But it's like a story that they're going to tell. Tell a bunch. and Strand in the book that I read suggests that it's a myth created by the Seneca to. Or part of these myths are like, we're being chased by this snake, and the snake is essentially the Europeans coming to, you know, ruin our way of life, which they did.
>> Farz: Yeah, but they got casinos out of it. Taylor. I would much rather have a casino than my ancestral homeland. You how much fucking money I'd make.
>> Taylor: how awful.
>> Farz: I'm joking, by the way. I'm joking. Just in case. Okay.
>> Taylor: I mean, I know. I mean. Yeah, we know. so, because that's about to happen, everything's about to be destroyed by settlers. the French come first. And I know we've talked about this. We're gonna talk. I'm going to mention, like, a ton of people that we know in this. In this story. but we know how the French come over and they want to do. Be fur trappers. Like, what they love to do.
>> Farz: Sorry. Yes, I'm aware of that. Are these. Are these Seneca or Niagara Falls? And we didn't start the fire?
>> Taylor: No.
>> Farz: Okay.
>> Taylor: Unfortunately. Good question. So the French came over to be, of course, preachers and fur trappers. one of the most famous people who came first was a man named Rene Robert Caviar. I'm sorry again. he is the Sieur de la Salle, which means Lord of the Manor. He's like, he should have a whole episode. He was like a French aristocrat somehow came from France, was evolved in. Involved in exploring the Great Lakes, Ohio and Texas. So like a huge parts of the United States and. Which is like a big trip even now. Like airplanes.
>> Farz: Yeah. What was he, like, 12 when he started and he died, you know?
>> Taylor: Yeah. he actually did end up getting killed, by the indigenous tribes, the. The Kankawa in Texas. So eventually they got him, but he was involved in a lot of that. Imagine, so now it's 1677. Is. There's a lot of Europeans coming. the western door, like I said, is the access to the rivers and the lakes beyond the falls, which is a huge deal. People want access to that. William Bradford, who we talked about a very long time ago in Plymouth, called the area around Niagara Falls a place full of savages. And even Cotton Mather had an opinion about them. So people that we know, were talking about them. Eventually. There's a battle on September 14, 1763, it's called the Battle of Devil's Hole, where, it's like right after Pontiac's Rebellion. And like, also those wars between, obviously, like, the. The Revolutionary War is about to start. So it's a lot going on. The, Seneca lured the British soldiers into an area and killed 81 British soldiers. And even though the Seneca won that battle, the. It caused Britain to bring over a lot more people, and then they were able to push the Seneca out of the area, because of that, and they pushed them more. More north. So.
>> Farz: Sorry, wait, what was that again?
>> Taylor: That was in 1763.
>> Farz: So, wait, the. Wow. So the Revolutionary War was, like, right around the corner?
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: Interesting. Okay.
>> Taylor: Yeah, Yeah. I do think I want to learn more about Pontiac's Rebellion. Like, I feel like there's a lot. I mean, there's so many stories, obviously, of, like, individual tribes, like, fighting for. To keep their land being pushed north to Canada or being pushed west, and then it's being pushed further and further west forever.
>> Farz: Yeah. I mean, you did an episode on, the name of that.
>> Taylor: The Trail of Tears.
>> Farz: No, the, man, the native group in Canada.
>> Taylor: Oh, yeah, yes, yes, exactly. The, people who became the Creoles. I can't remember.
>> Farz: I can't remember either.
Niagara Falls became an important route for the Underground Railroad
>> Taylor: What is going on. I know we've done so much, but. Yes, exactly. So that's. Exactly. They're being pushed into different places. so this kind of is going to go not in chronological order because there's a whole Bunch of things happening. as time goes by, there's the United States side and the Canadian side of the falls, like we just talked about. The United States side is like, by all accounts, pretty shitty. Like, there's casinos, there's crappy hotels, there's like a shitty museum, like a Madame Tussauds, that kind of thing. Yeah.
>> Farz: Okay.
>> Taylor: And. Which makes sense if you've, like, ever been to upstate New York. It's beautiful, but it's so, like, tortured. Like there's always. There's like these beautiful old towns that were like industrial towns and now they're abandoned. You know, like, it's. It sucks because upstate New York is so pretty, but it's pretty run down.
>> Farz: Yeah. It's in general, you remember Olympia National Forest and Grays Harbor? Like, they're beautiful, but like also just broken down meth towns.
>> Taylor: Yeah, exactly, exactly. So a lot of places in upstate New York are just like that. and people do start even after. So right after, like the Revolutionary War, people go to start traveling to Niagara Falls just to see it. One of the first recorded people to honeymoon there is actually Aaron Burr's daughter, Theodosia. So she went there. And also guess who else went there on and brought his bride on, like a honeymoon. You never going to guess. Yeah, we heard about. He was, I'm just going to tell you, Jerome Bonaparte. From who the Grimm Brothers worked for.
>> Farz: The one where I said that his last name was Jerome Napoleon. And you're like, no, it was Bill Apart. Got it.
>> Taylor: Exactly. So he'd been to Niagara Falls and he knew the Grimm Brothers. Isn't that crazy?
>> Farz: Yeah, history's nuts.
>> Taylor: Nuts. Okay, so that's just kind of like a little bit about, like the vibe. People start going there as tourists, like, pretty early. Because it is pretty. Like you said, pre Civil War. There is a lot going on. Canada outlawed slavery in like the early 1800s. Unless you think that. I think Canada is perfect. There was still indentured servitude and racism. And it was terrible. It wasn't, like, good in Canada, but it wasn't the United States. And, a lot of people were, taken from the United States to Canada via the Underground Railroad, via Niagara Falls. And if it's good enough for Harriet Tubman, it's good enough for me because Harriet Tubman was there. She. In, 1855, they built the Niagara Falls suspension bridge. It's no longer there, but it was a two level bridge. The top was for trains, the bottom was for, like carriages and walking. And it became like a really, really important part of the Underground Railroad. Harriet Tubman herself would oversee the crossings. She would go on the trains with people and they'd be like hidden in containers. And she would say, look how you can see the, you can see the falls. And people would be like, I can't. Like they're just so nervous because they're trying to get to Canada. The Fugitive Slave act complicated things because that was act where you could, or people were hired to catch enslaved people who were trying to escape north to either the north of the United States or to Canada and bring them back to their enslavers. but it was still a very popular, route for the Underground Railroad.
Um, two tangents about that, because this is so much
two tangents about that, because this is so much. There is a family.
>> Farz: Sorry, wasn't slavery still outlawed in the northern states? Like, wouldn't you, wouldn't you just have to go to the northern states? You didn't actually have to go to Canada, did you?
>> Taylor: Well, because of the Fugitive Slave act, you had to leave because.
>> Farz: Oh, because somebody could go to Massachusetts, find you and then take you back. Got it?
>> Taylor: Yes. Yeah. So people were trying to leave to, to leave to Canada. so two things that are kind of related to that. There's a family called the Porters who is credited for helping the area become more protected and, and more popular. Really they were just looking to make money and like for ways to get tourists there. So they weren't like conservationists. and one of the founders, the patriarch of that family is named Peter Porter. And he was someone who would help, enslavers catch their enslaved people and bring them back. So he's not a good guy, but sometimes he's, he's put forth as being like the father of Niagara Falls. And like, that's not necessarily true. if you go to Niagara Falls, the next time your parents go, I would suggest going to the Niagara Falls Underground Railroad Heritage Heritage center, because that sounds very cool. It's a museum, has a bunch of stuff.
>> Farz: I'm going to ask something but like, it's going to sound really stupid but like, is the falls of Niagara Falls was. Has that always been there or was it a dam that made it do the fall thing?
>> Taylor: It's always been there since 10,000 years ago when the glacier keep coming.
>> Farz: I don't know how this works.
>> Taylor: I don't know where the water comes from.
>> Farz: How could it have that much water always going downhill?
>> Taylor: I have no idea how waterfalls work. That is a very good question.
>> Farz: Maybe there's like a pump at the bottom that just pushes it back. Like, kind of like a water fountain.
>> Taylor: I don't think so. I think that waterfalls are just, like, ongoing water that comes from, like, the rivers. But, like, where do rivers come from? Rivers are always flowing.
>> Farz: Does anybody know? If everybody knows this, can you write to us at Doom?
>> Taylor: I feel so stupid. So it's just that it's just like the end of a river, you know, if it goes over a waterfall. But rivers are always moving. They're not like, static. They don't run out of water.
>> Farz: I have no idea how it works.
>> Taylor: Well, there's a couple more things I'll tell you on that note, and we can talk through it.
Niagara Falls was big part of the Underground Railroad, which is very cool
so anyway, Niagara Falls, big part of the Underground Railroad, which is very cool. Also, from 1901 to 1908, other things were happening in the United States. So we skipped ahead a bunch, but Jim Crow laws, voter suppression, people are starting to get really angry, obviously. And, 32 African American leaders meet on the Canadian side of Niagara Falls because they weren't allowed to be in the hotels on the U.S. side of Niagara Falls, and they start an organization called the Niagara Movement. The Niagara Movement didn't last too long, but a lot of the founders of the Niagara Movement moved over and founded the naacp. So the Niagara Movement is often called the predecessor of the naacp. So a lot of stuff happened there. Just happened to meet there.
>> Farz: Who would have known?
>> Taylor: Yeah. So another thing that happens during all these times is people are trying to do stunts over the false. Because of course they are. They're trying to, like, get tourists and have people watch something and get people to come. Strand, the author of the book that I read, she was like, oh, this stunts are kind of. Kind of dumb, but I like them. I want to see someone go for it in a barrel. You're not allowed to, but, like, I'd watch. Yeah.
>> Farz: Of course, we all tuned into Evel Knievel.
>> Taylor: Exactly.
>> Farz: Trying to kill himself when we were kids.
>> Taylor: Yeah. Like, I've totally watched that. and one thing. One of the first things people do is tightrope walking. And, man, I hate tightrope walking. It makes me want to die. Like, did you watch, like, man on Wire?
>> Farz: Yeah. I didn't watch that, but I did remember the guy who walked across the Grand Canyon or tried to walk across the Grand Canyon. It was like. I mean, even.
>> Taylor: It makes me.
>> Farz: I know I can't do it. I can't do it. I can't do heights.
>> Taylor: No, it's Crazy. but the most famous tightrope walker is named Jean Francois Blondine Graveling. His stage name is Blondine. he crossed eight times in 1859. He crossed, like, over the falls on a tightrope. One time he did it carrying his manager on his back, like, as.
>> Farz: Like, I hope he died the richest man in the world.
>> Taylor: You know, he did not. But he, And so it's 1859 when he's doing this, and he's crossing from the United States to Canada on a tightrope. And something that strand. the author of Inventing Niagara said that it's sort of like her hypotheses, which makes a lot of sense, is like, there's no way that people didn't associate that with escaping the United States into Canada, because it was, like, actively part of the Underground Railroad. People are actively trying to escape their enslavers in the United States and move to and, like, get to Canada. And someone is doing this, like, dangerous trick doing the same thing. So she's like, there's no way that people watch this and didn't think about what was happening in the United States. And she equates it to, like, what if David Copperfield went down to the Mexico m border and, like, disappeared himself to the other side of the wall? You'd be like, that's amazing. And also, like, that's political, Which I kind of agree with.
>> Farz: I guess.
>> Taylor: There's no way you didn't. It feels like it could have been a little bit political, or at least people might have. Like, I don't know.
>> Farz: You actually have a real world example. Because David Copperfield literally did that between the Mongol side and the Chinese side of the great, Wall of China.
>> Taylor: Did he really?
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: Cool.
>> Farz: Yeah. And, like, I don't know. I didn't think about the geopolitical aspect of.
>> Taylor: Do the people that live there think about it? Maybe that's, you know, like, maybe, like, maybe a percentage of folks thought about it, maybe that. Maybe that, you know. But I think it's interesting. There were other tightrope walkers who tried as well. there was a guy named William Hunt who called himself the Great Farini. And him and Blondin would kind of go back and forth. Like one of them cooked an omelet somehow on the tightrope. which isn't making sense to me. in the 1870s, a woman named Maria Speltarini. She was 23 years old. and she was the first and only woman to do it on a tightrope. And, she did it a couple times. One time she was blindfolded. One time her ankles and wrists were handcuffed, like.
>> Farz: Yeah, I don't get it.
>> Taylor: I don't even understand. so, it stopped being popular kind of after that because it was so dangerous. But in 2012, a man who has quite the resume. His name is Nick, Wallenda, and he is, like, his great grandpa started the Flying Wallendas, which is, like, a group of performers who comes from, like, a family of circus performers. He's still alive. He has, like, the goodest book world records for, like, longest time on a bike, on a tightrope, things like that. but with permission of both governments, he crossed in 2012, but he had to bring his passport because he couldn't get into Canada without it, which is funny.
>> Farz: That's pretty cute. I like that story.
People have gone over Niagara Falls accidentally, sometimes by accident
>> Taylor: There's also people that go over the falls, sometimes by accident. and I know that there are three falls, but I'm not doing that right now. I'm just calling it all one. I'm talking about people going over them, in, something. Oh. So first it happened by accident a lot. I'm sure plenty of people lost their lives accidentally going over the falls in. The first recorded One is from 1853, where three dudes in a boat lost control and went over. But I'm sure it happened before then. Animals actually went over a lot just naturally, like fish and geese and maybe, like, a deer would, like, fall in and go over. So there's reports of, like, both the Senecas and, Europeans, like, finding freshly dead animals at the bottom of it and being, like, sweet. That was easy.
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: something that is insane that you're going to hate. In 1827, they filled a boat called the Michigan with animals and sent it over the falls to see what would happen. They charged 50 cents per person to watch it happen. They had, like, a bear and dogs and deer and, all sorts of, like, they were going to try to get, like, a tiger and an elephant, but they couldn't get them. But they had some animals go over. One bear was, like, dizzy at the bottom, I think. Another one they never found. And a lot of the animals they didn't find, people paid to see it.
>> Farz: God, just fill it with people and throw it over. Like, why you got to do the animals? There's nothing to do with anything. They didn't do any of this.
>> Taylor: I know, I know.
>> Farz: For all of us.
>> Taylor: I know. I mean, I didn't do it. but so there Was that.
>> Farz: I know you would have.
>> Taylor: I might have. But like then, sure. Now no. But like then, yes. The tailor of the early 1900s would have paid to go. The tailor of right now knows better and would not go.
>> Farz: Okay, thank you, thank you.
>> Taylor: in 1901, a woman named Annie Edison Taylor, a 63 year old who pretended to be in her 40s, was the first person to go over in a barrel. She sent her cat over the day before and the cat survived. So she was like good enough for me. And she went over, she brought a heart shaped pillow in her big barrel. Barrel. She was like a schoolteacher who didn't have a lot of money and was trying to just like do anything to make money. So she thought that she could like do some speaking after this, like be in the, Be on the news. And she was. But she ended up, you know, not making a ton of money from it. What year that was in 1901.
>> Farz: Okay, so that was 2200 or. Sorry, 120 years ago, somebody, Put their cat in a barrel, threw it over Niagara Falls. The cat came out unscathed. They're like, all right, I'm just gonna do it myself. And now we're sitting here talking across seven like 1700 miles to each other and what are we gonna be like in 200 years?
>> Taylor: Like no, we're not, we're not.
>> Farz: How are we the same species we were back then?
>> Taylor: Absolutely not. It's insane. Yeah. 100, I don't know, crazy. so people were kind of pissed that the first person to do it was just like a regular lady, you know, they wanted it to be like a big more big of fanfare. But it was her. And she said she died 20 years later, still poor, but you know, she at least had done it. she said, quote, if it was with my dying breath, I would caution anyone against attempting defeat. I would sooner walk up to the mouth of the cannon knowing that was going to blow me to pieces and make another trip over the fall.
>> Farz: Cause I'm sure it was all how, how fall? How, how far is the top to the bottom?
>> Taylor: Again, such a good question. I have no idea. I'm gonna look it up. How tall it is? 188ft high, I guess. Not like super high, but, but very wild.
>> Farz: That's crazy high.
>> Taylor: I mean I thought it would be.
>> Farz: Like to free fall 180ft.
>> Taylor: Yes. And you're like being battered with the water, you know, it's not like a nice.
>> Farz: That's crazy. I can't believe you'd even survive the fall, much less the drowning.
>> Taylor: Well, a lot of people didn't. And so there's a whole list on Wikipedia of people who went over the falls. And I pulled out some highlights. in 1903, a drunk professional baseball player was kicked off of a train and he fell into the water and he died. in 1911, a man named Bobby Leach went over in a metal barrel, which feels like more harder. And he spent six months in the hospital afterwards, but he survived. In 1960, a seven year old boy fell off a boat. and it was like he was with his like family friends and him and the adult family friend went over the falls. The boy was wearing a life jacket. He survived, but the family friend did not. in 1961, a man went over in a big bouncy ball and he survived. Like he had like a big rubber ball that he went over in. In 1981, a woman dropped her baby over the falls and was charged with murder, but it was dismissed.
David Hill: A lot of people die trying to go over Niagara Falls
and to be clear, you're not allowed to do this. Like you're not allowed to go over the falls in a barrel. If you do it, you're like doing it at night, evading the police. in, in 2003, a man named Kirk Jones went over after drinking with friends. He said it was an attempt, to die by suicide, but he survived. And in 2017 he did it again and died like he wanted to die that way.
>> Farz: Okay, again, to my, to our listeners, write to us.gmail.com. what I'm blown away by is I think the human body reaches terminal velocity at like 30ft of free fall and almost nobody can survive that. Is there something different? Because like maybe, I mean, around you.
>> Taylor: And possibly, possibly the barrels, like absorbing part of that energy, but then you're smashing the barrel. Like that's not, that's why the guy was in, he was in the hospital for six months because he like broke all his bones.
>> Farz: The golden gate Bridge is 220ft and everybody who jumps off that thing died. I have no idea how it even possible.
>> Taylor: Okay, anyways, I know, I know you're right, like a lot of people die like this. in 2011, an exchange student from Japan like walked over a barrier and sat on a rock to like watch the falls. And then as she was leaving, she slipped and fell and died. And then just a month ago, and on October 28th, 2004, 33 year old woman named Chianti means climbed over the guard with her two children, ages 9 and 5 months, and their bodies have still not been recovered. Florence is here.
>> Farz: She just said, whoa, you gotta stop exposing her to this stuff.
>> Taylor: She walked in. but that. So people are going to continue to try to go over it. The next person has a stunt is gonna have to, like, sneak in, but there's a lot of guards trying to stop you from doing it because obviously, like you said, very, very dangerous.
>> Farz: Yeah, it sounds like you actually, you legitimately have to have a death wish also. You have to have a death wish and the desire to die in the. One of the most terrifying ways possible. Like that woman, the first one, the school teacher that did it. She had it right. Imagine in complete darkness inside of, like, a wine barrel.
>> Taylor: Oh, my God.
>> Farz: and you hear everything going on.
>> Taylor: No, it's got to be so loud, too. Yeah, it's got to be so loud.
>> Farz: I. I get terrified when I go to, like, a nice resort and they have one of those, like, grottos in the waters pouring over. Like, that freaks me out, putting my hand underneath that thing.
>> Taylor: No, totally.
>> Farz: I get scared real easily, though.
>> Taylor: I know exactly what you're talking about, how loud that is when you go over under the, like, tiny little waterfall resort. Yes. No, it's. And then, like, that's the thing too. Like, it's so loud the whole time. It's so loud.
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: okay, so that's people who've gone over it. So what else has happened there? obviously people try. Are trying to make it profitable. Profitable. They want people to come and visit. They want. They own the land, they want tourism, all the things. there's lots of decisions and conversations about how do we conserve it and how do we make it profitable. one person who we brought up before, Frederick Law Olmsted, who designed Central park, he was there and in the 1870s, he helped build, like, promenades and places to walk. and he also, like, blew up some of the islands and, like, moved things around because, like, remember Central Park? Those aren't real hills. Like, they made the hills, right? They made the lakes. You know, they made it look like it was before, but, like, it's not. It's not what it naturally was. Like, you know, it feels natural, but it wasn't. so that's what he did. He did there as well. In 1885, Governor of New York David B. Hill made Niagara Falls the first state park in New York State. So it's, like, semi protected by the government.
In the 1920s, it became a big deal to have a one on one honeymoon
other things we've mentioned that, like, Honeymoons are really popular there. in the 1920s, it became a big deal to have, like a one on one honeymoon. Before that, the honeymoon was a time where you would, like, with your family, go around and visit family that weren't able to make it to the wedding ceremony. So it was like.
>> Farz: That was a point.
>> Taylor: Yeah, it was like an extended wedding. But now it became, like, kind of sexy to like, have your own one on one honeymoon. And it was very popular to get to Niagara Falls because it was easy to get there for most Americans. You could drive there and it was nice. You could take a train there. in 1892, Oscar Wilde visited Niagara Falls, who we know, and he said, quote, niagara will survive any criticism of mine. I must say this, however, that it is the first disappointment in the married life of many Americans who spend their honeymoon there. Which is a joke, but he saw it too. there's a movie with Marilyn Monroe called Niagara where she's on a honeymoon with her husband, and there's a scene where she, like, walks away, and it's like 30 seconds of her walking away, like, doing her little civil walk. That made it also very popular. there are also a lot of, like, junk museums. Like I said, like a Ripley's Believe it or not or a junk museum.
>> Farz: What are you talking about?
>> Taylor: It's not like a real museum.
>> Farz: Where else are you gonna be able to stand next to, like, the guy who's like, the tallest man who's ever lived? Like, you can. You can't do that anywhere.
>> Taylor: I think junk museum is the right word. Not like, it's not in a bad way of being like a. You know, it's a junk museum. I also, though, actually, that reminded me, I was at the airport the other day, and one of the screens of the airport bar had a thing that was just like Guinness Book of World Records over and over again. So it was like a dude on a, like, standing on a bouncy ball, juggling for two minutes and like, just like those ridiculous ones. Like the person who blew a playing card the furthest across street.
>> Farz: You know what, What Guinness won't take as a world record anymore.
>> Taylor: We, just talked about it. Holding your breasts. What was it?
>> Farz: Sleep.
>> Taylor: Sleep. Oh, yes, totally. Right. so. But also, this is cool. So there was a museum called the Niagara Falls Museum. It was in Canada, in Ontario. It was founded by a man named Thomas Barnett in 1827. So he, like, was friends with people who were, like, I don't know, grave robbers is kind of the word. Like, people who were, like, bringing antiques from the Middle east, from Europe, from these native settlements, like, and just, like, selling it to the highest bidder. it closed in 1998. So it was open for, like, a really long time. And when it closed, the entire collection got sold to this one dude. And that dude was, like, going through it piece by piece and selling it. And you know what they found? They found a real Egyptian mummy, the mummy of Ramses the first. And they returned to Egypt in 2003. So went on, like, a little bit of a tour, went back to Egypt. Ramses the first died in 1290 BC and his mummy ended up in Niagara Falls.
>> Farz: That's kind of nuts. Do we know how it ended up there?
>> Taylor: It was like, just like. Like someone, like, stole it from the tomb, and they just, like, was in, like, a bunch of private collections, you know, just like, stolen, like, brought around the world.
>> Farz: Wild.
>> Taylor: Wild. Right? so that's fun.
Niagara Falls was built via electricity from water. So Edison tried and he failed
So then there's other things that are happening, and this is where we'll talk about, like, the. The, waterfall itself. So, yes, they're doing preservation and thinking about that, but the other question is, how much power can it generate? You know, which is a good question.
>> Farz: Probably a ton, given that we got a lot of water from water.
>> Taylor: Yeah. energy from water. So the, center call out to be like, how can we do this? How can we do this energy? So Edison tried and he failed, but guess who succeeded and who has a huge statue at Niagara Falls right now?
>> Farz: Tesla.
>> Taylor: Tesla. You're right. You're right, Tesla. I think you know that. and also, enter Robert Moses. So they built the hydroelectric plant via, like, the. What is it? The double current thing that Tesla invented.
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: And. And that's going. And they want to make it bigger. So enter Robert Moses. Of course. and in the book, Strand was like, yeah, if you in New York City and you're mad at Robert Moses, like, try Coventry Falls, because, like, he did, like, worst things there. He bulldozed some of the paths that Olmstead had created to create parking lots to get charged for parking. Because that's just like the kind of guy that Robert Moses was.
>> Farz: Sorry, Robert Moses was the power broker, right?
>> Taylor: Yeah. Okay. Yeah, yeah, yeah. I took a picture of me reading the Power Broker because I was excited because I got to pull it out again for this, episode. I put it on her Instagram. but some things that he did is, like, there were some, some Seneca nations that were still there and still owned their own land, and he bought them from Them at like a really low price. And it was like such a bad deal that even Eleanor Roosevelt wrote him a letter and was like, cut this shit, don't do this. You know, like, he. They were, and they did things that they were like, oh, let's preserve this part of, Before we build these big, these like actually gigantic plants, let's preserve parts of the area and the way that the parts that were preserved, like very conveniently were not the parts they needed for the plant. So it was all like a cover up and like people working together.
>> Farz: Right.
>> Taylor: You know.
Every time you go to Niagara Falls, you are not seeing 100% water
So, obviously electricity became very popular very fast. We've talked about this. Like, thank God for electricity. There was a. At a world's fair, they had like a whole thing that was like, better living through electricity. And the answer is yes, so much better now that we have electricity. And, so essentially every time you go to Niagara Falls, you are not seeing the falls at 100% of what they could be. You were seeing it anywhere between 50 to 70%. And we can control it via the hydroelectric plants. I have no idea how technically it works, but that's how you can technically turn it on and off. So they're. During the peak tourist season, they turn it up to 70%, but at night they bring it back down to be able to use that water for electricity. So during the summer, the water is reduced to 50,000 cubic feet per second at night to use that for the electricity. But that's still bringing it down to 50%. It would be twice that at its normal level. But it's never at 100%. It's either at 70 during the tourist season during the day or at 50% during the rest of the year.
>> Farz: So I have a really, really hard time with large volumes or quantities of things. I can't even understand what that means. You know, let's see.
>> Taylor: Yeah, and me too. I totally agree with that. Cubic feet. I'm saying 50,000 cubic feet. what does it even mean? Like, what does that mean? Does that mean? I don't know. We'll have to think about. I have to look at it better because I really don't know where that could possibly be. I guess. How many cubic feet of water in a pool? In an Olympic pool.
>> Farz: Okay, so, okay, so seven shipping containers stacked together is 50,000 cubic feet.
>> Taylor: Okay. And that's per second that go over it. So a pool, olympic pool is 88,000 cubic feet. So a little less than Olympic size pool. Go over the falls every second.
>> Farz: Right.
>> Taylor: Is that helpful?
>> Farz: It does Yeah, I also feel overwhelmed.
>> Taylor: It's, it's a lot, it's too much.
>> Farz: it's, it's the volume in like three average three bedroom size homes. Like if you were to fill the interior of throw a three bedroom home full of water three times, that's how much water it is.
>> Taylor: Wow.
>> Farz: Which is terrifying to think about.
>> Taylor: It's terrifying, terrifying. so of course people are like, well, if we let it go at 100%, it would erode faster. And you're like, yeah. Because nature also like it's supposed to change. Like that's part of the point, you know. But, but right now we control a lot of it, which is crazy.
A lot of pre work for the atomic bomb was done in Niagara Falls
so other things on the American side that I just wanted to note, there was a, a thing to have like a really beautiful planned community there for people who like worked around the area because there's tourism, but there's also a lot of industrial, things that were happening around there obviously with the water plant and things like that. and they built a community called Echota, which was like E C H O T A which is all these like houses and like beautifully lined streets and like trying to be like a perfect suburban, place. And the houses were designed by Stanford White, who we know was murdered on top of Madison Square Garden.
>> Farz: Oh yeah.
>> Taylor: But most of them now have been knocked down or they're like, it did not work out. I tried to find one on Zillow and I couldn't find exactly a Stanford White House. But there are a lot of really pretty houses for very inexpensive up there in that area, on Zillow. Now, another thing that I'll kind of end with that happened later. and in more recent history is like I said, there was a lot of industrialization and actually a lot of pre work for the atomic bomb was done in the Niagara Falls area. So they would like get the uranium and like other things and bring it there. But they wouldn't tell people what they were working on, obviously. So before it got to Los Alamos, a lot of it would be worked on in Niagara Falls, but you'd only work on like a little part of it, you know, and you'd be like.
>> Farz: Homes here so cheap.
>> Taylor: Because. Wait, just wait a second.
>> Farz: Okay, sorry.
>> Taylor: because, okay, so they're building piece by piece of the atomic bomb and with that comes radiation. And they're not taking precautions, they're not telling people what it is. People aren't wearing hazmat suits, and they're dumping shit into all of the rivers and into the land. And a lot of stuff is going to be built on landfills that are filled of like bad things.
>> Farz: So I think you just answered my question.
>> Taylor: So like a lot of people who worked on these things have died of cancer. You know, a lot of people who were just like drank the water in the area when they were children are dying of cancer. There's a place called the Love Canal which is now.
>> Farz: Oh yeah, that's a fun story.
>> Taylor: Yeah. So essentially it's a 16 acre landfill, in New York. And from 1942 to 1953 they just filled it with hazardous waste. Over 21,000 tons of chemicals, acids, chlorides, pesticides, were dumped there. Jimmy Carter declared it a disaster zone in 1978 and they've been like trying to clean it up since then. That's like.
>> Farz: Yeah, I think it was the first, super fund.
>> Taylor: Oh yeah.
>> Farz: In the U.S. yeah, that makes sense.
>> Taylor: That makes sense. Yeah. Because it was like very bad and the people were like you, the people were irreparably harmed, you know, from it. so now to kind of end is that there are historical societies and preservation societies. We've only really been there for a few hundred years, you know, like figuring out what to do with it, you know, building and destroying and changing and doing all these things. So I feel like, and I'd like to hear more because speaking of the cheap houses, I kind of think that people should move there now. Like I think the answer to places like those small shitty towns in the middle of America where like it used to be great because of industrialization and now it's not. And there's people like a lot of drugs and a lot of things and like there's, you know, plenty of examples where that doesn't happen, but plenty where it does where like people can have online jobs and live there, you know, and like help, help the community. I feel like there, that there's a chance for that to happen because it is beautiful and the houses are cute and they're cheap. Like why not make a little cute little tech town up there.
>> Farz: So I'm sure somebody has like done a lot of research on this and studied this. But like Detroit, so when we're growing up, remember like the original Robocop and that horrible God awful city that was visualized as like the town in Detroit in Robocop that was supposed to be Detroit and it turned into a complete shithole after, you know, manufacturing got sent overseas essentially. and, and now it's like Kind of back. Like it's kind of like a cool, hip spot. Like, you know, and like if you look at property there, yeah, sure, you'll find like $20,000 houses. We also find like really cool looking lofts. Like, it's kind of like a hip tech spot. And like whatever they did to facilitate that. Yeah, just do that with all these little burnt out towns that.
>> Taylor: I think it'd be cool. I think there's just a lot of opportunity in those places. I, Have you watched Detroiters? Have I told you about it yet? Oh my God, it's so freaking funny. It's on Netflix. It's two seasons. It's like just these two dudes who live in Detroit and they're hilarious. And there's one episode where there's like a tech company that moves into their building and they're like kind of mad at them and the tech people are like, oh, we're going to go walk to this area. And they're like, no, no, no, you'll get shocked. Which reminded me of when I moved to, la and I tried to walk some. I tried to walk somewhere and Kyle at work was like, no, absolutely not. And like drove me there.
>> Farz: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
>> Taylor: so like, I mean there's, you know, and then there's. So then there's like community things that need to happen. Like there need to be, you know, drug rehab centers and things like that to like help the people who live there, like, move up. But I feel like there's, you know, opportunity everywhere. But there's so many of these, like, especially in America, these small American towns that need a little pick me up and Niagara Falls is one of them. And it's by one of the.
Taylor: When I saw the Grand Canyon, I wasn't overwhelmed
Tell, tell me what your parents thought. They thought it was beautiful.
>> Farz: Yeah, they thought it was incredible. They thought it was like they, they were like, it feels so powerful and people were getting on boats and like going near it and I was like, they were like terrified to do that because they thought it was just like foolish to like try, even try that. but they, yeah, they were just like really in awe of it in a way that like, I usually don't feel when I look at natural things. But I think I've been. I've consumed so much media about it that I kind of have a sense of what it must be like.
>> Taylor: I don't know.
>> Farz: When I saw the Grand Canyon, I wasn't like, oh my God, this is.
>> Taylor: I actually think, I think that like when I look out my window I can see like Several, mountain regions. I, like, live on a mountain. I can see a bunch of stuff, and it's hard because it's so far away and so huge. Like the Grand Canyon, like, when you're looking at it, like, I can't perceive how big the thing I'm looking at is. Like, you take a picture of it. It doesn't work like, all those things, but I think Niagara Falls is small enough to be able to see all the grander in one spot.
>> Farz: Soak it in.
>> Taylor: Yeah, yeah. But I've never been there. But that's. That's. That's. That's what I imagine, like, is the difference, because when you're looking at the Grand Canyon, you're like, I have no idea what I'm looking at. This is huge, you know?
>> Farz: Yeah, yeah. I've. I've thought, like, the hiking tours that, like, REI does in the Grand Canyon, that could be kind of fun if you survive it. but, like, I just don't want.
>> Taylor: To camp, so, like, I'll do, like, a day on a donkey, maybe. I mean, I might hate that because I hate being on a horse, but I feel like maybe a donkey and I could hang out because we'd be like, let's stop and have a snack.
>> Farz: Yeah, you could get along the donkey. can you hear the barking?
>> Taylor: I cannot know. Okay.
>> Farz: So that's fun. Thanks for sharing that, Taylor.
>> Taylor: I learned a ton, and it's fun. It's fun how many crossovers we have with other stories that we have.
>> Farz: I know I'm gonna kind of talk about that in my story this week. but, yeah, it. All history kind of flows into itself quite a bit.
>> Taylor: It does.
>> Farz: Well, thanks for sharing. Tell.
Taylor got a note from Morgan on a way to say medieval correctly
Is there anything you want to read out or listener mail or.
>> Taylor: I do have. I did get a note from Morgan on a way to say medieval to help you be able to, spell, it correctly. Let me. Let me. I'm going to open up her voice note and play it for myself and then tell you what she said. because she. What'd you say? Can you hear this?
>> Farz: No. Okay.
>> Taylor: Medieval kind of helps. You say it like that. You can kind of spell it better, but it still, I feel it's like I got the evil part right.
>> Farz: Eval m. Yeah.
>> Taylor: Yeah. I think maybe that's it.
>> Farz: Yeah. It might be the way to do it.
>> Taylor: Anyway. so thank you, Morgan, for helping us do that. And she also said that she got her mouth washed out with soap.
>> Farz: Seriously?
>> Taylor: That's still going on, like, for real. So she Said so. She's like, it's still. I, mean, not recently, but, like, we know when she was a child.
>> Farz: Hey, Taylor, have, like. I mean, you're a parent is, like, rearing kids. Like, a lot different now than we were kids with, like, the shit that we did. Like, the punishments you would get.
>> Taylor: Yeah, I mean, I definitely got spanked, and I would never spank my children, you know?
>> Farz: Or, like, what about, like, just being out and about and, like, you know, playing around and.
>> Taylor: You mean, like, by yourself as a kid?
>> Farz: Well, we used to just, like, run. Run around the neighborhood and, like, play around. And, like, that was at the he of, like, our parents being a doctor day with, like, people kidnapping kids. And my parents, like, go, go. Go for it.
>> Taylor: I know. I love. I mean, I let my kids out a lot. Like, one time, it was like, we were at soccer and, like, across, like, a soccer field, like, pretty far, there's a. A concession stand, and Florence, like, can I go to the concession stand? And I was like, sure. And I gave her my credit card, and I was like, just go. And she just went. And then another friend of hers asked their mom, and their mom was like, no, I have to go with you. And I was like, oops. Right?
>> Farz: So there's variations of.
>> Taylor: Yeah, I was like, oh, I just sent my child there with my credit card. She's 10. And, like, hopefully they let her use it, you know? so, yeah, it depends.
>> Farz: But washing mouth out with soap is not on the.
>> Taylor: No.
>> Farz: Okay. No, that's probably a good one to let go.
>> Taylor: Yeah, it's a good one to let go. I do, I do. I do. Like, they have, like, a running list of how much money they have, so they have, like, 20 bucks on the fridge, you know, and it goes up and down because I'm like, if I find your shoes in any place with the shoe rack, that's minus a dollar, you know, so we do stuff like that, and I guess we do it. They like money, so, you know.
>> Farz: Nice.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: Nice way to. Yeah. I mean. Yeah, writing kids works.
>> Taylor: It totally does. I'm sure that. I'm sure that's always been the case, too, you know.
>> Farz: Right.
I'm starting a new podcast by myself. Not the first. So if you want to host a podcast, get in touch
>> Taylor: and then also one more announcement is I'm starting a new podcast by myself. What? not. Not the first. I do want to do this one about first ladies, but I also, have been thinking about my town, Joshua Tree, where I live, and there's so much that I don't know about it. There's so many historical things, and, like, things are going on locally. Like, what do you do when you have kids? Like, where are my kids? Taking music lessons. What's Little League? Like, I just was talking. I just went on a brand new hike two days ago. I'd never been on. I lived here for five years. I know the director of development at the national park. All these things that I want to talk more about. So it's called the Joshua Tree Bee, like a little newspaper. And I'm going to start it soon. So I have. I'm on Instagram at thejoshuatreeb.
>> Farz: So are we, having. So Doom to Fail is going to become like the parent company?
>> Taylor: Yes.
>> Farz: Whatever it is. And then we're just going to have like several podcasts underneath. So if you're a listener and you want to host a podcast and want to, you know, get the know how on how to get that going and want us to publish it for you. Get us get it. Get in touch.
>> Taylor: No, it's our network. Yeah, Doomed Network. I love that for us.
>> Farz: That's fun. Yeah. very cool idea. okay, we'll go ahead and cut things off again. Find us on the socials at Doom to fell Pod on Gmail, Doom to help. And we'll join you all again in a few days.
>> Taylor: Thanks, Mark.