Finish up the year with us by talking about the Christmastime tragedy of the Lockerbie bombing. We'll talk about the PanAm flight, where it started, where it was headed, and what happened when a suitcase in the cargo hold exploded over Lockerbie, Scotland. We'll talk suspects, pay-offs, and conspiracy theories. Thank you for listening to our little show this year!! We will see you in 2025!
Finish up the year with us by talking about the Christmastime tragedy of the Lockerbie bombing. We'll talk about the PanAm flight, where it started, where it was headed, and what happened when a suitcase in the cargo hold exploded over Lockerbie, Scotland.
We'll talk suspects, pay-offs, and conspiracy theories.
Thank you for listening to our little show this year!! We will see you in 2025!
Hi Friends! Our transcripts aren't perfect, but I wanted to make sure you had something - if you'd like an edited transcript, I'd be happy to prioritize one for you - please email doomedtofailpod@gmail.com - Thanks! - Taylor
Taylor: It's pitch black in my office because I live next to mountain
>> Taylor: In the matter of the people of State of California vs. Oriental James Simpson, case number BA097. And so, my fellow Americans, ask not.
>> Farz: What your country can do for you.
>> Taylor: Ask what you can do for your country.
>> Farz: Alrighty, Taylor, welcome back. how are you doing today? Good.
>> Taylor: hanging in there.
>> Farz: You look so different without your Santa.
>> Taylor: I did took it off. My cheeks are very rosy though.
>> Farz: They're very rosy.
>> Taylor: That's good for me, I think. It's just a zoom filters though. And I have my, my ring light on because it's by the time it's like 2:30 in here, it's like pitch black in my office because I live next to a mountain and the sun goes down, it's like behind the mountain. And I'm like, it's so dark. So I have to like put on every light I have, including my ring light. Otherwise it's just literally really dark in here.
>> Farz: So I don't have any lights in here. And it actually is dark in here right now. Like as in like it's night here. but I'm m still lit up because I think that I have so many damn screens and monitors staring at me that it lights me up like a little Christmas tree.
>> Taylor: That's true. I wouldn't be able to tell.
>> Farz: There you go. Yeah, so it works. sweet.
June to Fail focuses on history's most notorious disasters and epic failures
Do you want to introduce us?
>> Taylor: Oh, yeah. Hi everyone. Welcome to June to Fail, where the podcast that brings you history's most notorious disasters and epic failures twice a week, every week. And I'm Taylor, joined by Fars. And we're a week away from Christmas.
>> Farz: We are a week away from Christmas. and we are going to do another December story today. And actually, Taylor, I didn't anticipate this, but we actually have like another really strong overlap between our stories.
>> Taylor: Ooh, help me.
>> Farz: so I'm m going to be telling a story about an event that occurred on December 21, 1988. We are coming up to. Actually, by the time you listen to this, it'll probably be the 36th anniversary of this event. And I found it super interesting because it has to do with terrorism. But it doesn't occur in the way that we think about modern terrorism or the reasons that we think about for modern terrorism. So that's why I thought it was an interesting story.
>> Taylor: Cool.
>> Farz: So I'm going to be discussing the Lockerbie bombing. I'm going to be going over how it happened, what officials did or didn't know beforehand who did it, why in the aftermath. Do you know? You know, this One. Right.
>> Taylor: Yeah, I do. I have so much plane anxiety that I feel like I was going to do another plane crash and I was like, I can't. And then I like, appreciate you just for. I'll go on a plane. Just keep going. Everything's fine.
>> Farz: Contributing to your anxiety.
>> Taylor: Yeah, it is what it is.
>> Farz: So Lockerbie, the name refers to the city in Scotland where the debris field of this crashes. So that's what we're referring to with Lockerbie.
The plane involved in the bombing was a Boeing 747
realistically, this is, a flight called Pan Am 103. Obviously, Pan Am doesn't exist anymore, but at the time they were running routes between Frankfurt, Germany to London Heathrow to JFK in New York, ending in Michigan, Detroit, Michigan, which was the path for Pan Am M103. That's what it was intended to do. The plane involved in the bombing was a Boeing 747. So that's the double decker, the big, big one. and it carried 243 passengers and 16 crew for 259 people in total. This is interesting. I did not know this, but when you look at a flight like American Airlines 1015 or Pan Am 103, whatever it is, that actually doesn't mean it's like one plane doing the whole thing. That's just like the flight route. Did you know that?
>> Taylor: So the flight number. Yeah. It's not the same flight number every time that plane goes.
>> Farz: Well, I assume that, but. Well, I assume that, like if you're flight whatever, then like you're. It's one plane doing that route and then back on a different flight number doing the opposite route. That's what I assumed.
>> Taylor: Okay.
>> Farz: But apparently in this case. So the flight that started out again, it starts out in Frankfurt, Germany to London Heathrow, that was a 7 27. The flight number then gets affixed to a 747 in London to pick up the transatlantic leg.
>> Taylor: Okay.
>> Farz: Which I guess makes sense, right? Because, okay, Frankfurt to London is easier than across the Atlantic. So you want a big jet for that. Got it. Okay.
>> Taylor: Yeah, that makes sense.
>> Farz: Just learning.
>> Taylor: So wait, wait, I'm sorry, say it again. So, but. So it's still called the same flight number even though they changed flights.
>> Farz: They change planes. Yeah. Same flight number.
>> Taylor: Got it. Because the flight number is the journey.
>> Farz: It's a journey. Yeah.
>> Taylor: Okay. Back apart.
>> Farz: I learned quite a bit, actually, about how. So on the day of, again, the 727 lands from Frankfurt, Germany. The passengers, crew and luggage intended for the Atlantic leg of the flight moves over to the 747, as do all the new passers had picked up in London. And the plane takes off at 6:25pm local time. At around 7:02pm air traffic controllers over Scotland or in Scotland noted that the cockpit was non responsive. And then they picked up five radar signatures where the plane should have been fanning in different directions. So moments later, the plane wreckage and the bodies of its passengers come raining down primarily over Lockerbie, Scotland. The entire wreckage site was actually spread over 845 square miles.
>> Taylor: Whoa.
>> Farz: Crazy.
>> Taylor: Yeah, that's crazy.
>> Farz: So what happened was, what happened to the plane was that was a detonation of a Semtex plastic explosive bomb that was disguised as a Toshiba cassette playing radio.
>> Taylor: Hilariously. 80s of them.
>> Farz: Yeah, very 80s. Yeah. So the bomb contained a barometric pressure switch which was set to explode once the pressure switch reached 31,000ft in altitude.
>> Taylor: I was going to ask how high it was.
>> Farz: There it is.
>> Taylor: Wow.
>> Farz: And then the bomb was contained inside of a Samsonite suitcase along with clothes. So despite what I kind of assumed was it checked? It was okay, that is all the story.
>> Taylor: Oh, okay, great. Can't wait. Sorry.
>> Farz: So, so despite what I kind of assumed about how luggage is stored, they apparently don't just throw the luggage into the storage compartment under the plane, which is kind of what I thought they did. Kind of like in your trunk, you just throw stuff in there. They use these large aluminum containers that are filled with luggage then rolled into place into the plane.
>> Taylor: Makes sense I guess.
>> Farz: Within one of these containers was this suitcase containing this cassette player containing the bomb. So where it is located would have been closer to the bottom part of the storage container near the front of the plane, slightly behind the first class cabin. When it blew, it created a 20 inch hole in the plane. And during investigation they reconstructed pretty much like the entire plane. If you look at it, it looks like just a tin can that was just like torn to shreds is what it kind of looked like.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: And what happened was they discovered that this hole, that this 20 inch hole the plane, that the bomb created in the plane, it set off a chain reaction essentially. So it was very it was very well placed to do the kind of damage it was intended to do. But it was possible that it would not have done what it ended up doing if it was placed deeper inside the plane or further in the back where it was placed was particularly sensitive.
>> Taylor: So no had any control over that. That just.
>> Farz: Yeah, total accident. So the whole resulted in rapid depressurization which resulted in dramatic structural damage to the plane, such that the cockpit. From the cockpit back to the first class cabin completely ripped off the plane. Immediately the wings were sheared off and the rest of the fuselage started breaking apart as it started falling. The good news of this is for the front half of the plane that detached, anyone in that section either died immediately or had no clue what happened. Because the G forces were so extreme, it would have incapacitated any human. The back half, it wasn't as obvious and clean. The people who were seated with their seatbelts on, they probably would have survived at least a few seconds. They would have known what was going on, so they would have been rendered unconscious, mostly because of the lack of oxygen. At 31,000ft. The fact the weather was immediately negative 70 degrees inside, the temperature was negative 70 degrees inside. Plus they're being whipped around in 500 mile per hour winds. That would have. They would have, like, gone out relatively quickly.
Government and airlines actually knew about impending terror attack, author says
There is some. They did find that it is presumed some people survived all the way to the ground, but it was like, impossible. They were conscious.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: So that's good. Yeah, exactly. So once the play made impact, its wings, which is where all the fuel is carried, landed in a neighborhood and caused a massive fireball. It killed another 11 people in Lockerbie. Mostly people who are just, like, in their homes. Yeah. So by all accounts, governments and airlines actually knew that there was an impending threat. This is like 9, 11 all over again. So 16 days before the explosion, someone called a US embassy saying that a Pan Am flight from Frankfurt to the US Will be blown up in the next two weeks by a Palestinian freedom group named Abu Nadal Organization.
>> Taylor: Okay, well, that sounds pretty fucking specific.
>> Farz: Right? Right. Also, extremist members of the plo, the Palestinian Liberation Organization themselves, also warned they might launch a terror attack, mostly because the US and the PLO were. Well, the leadership of the PLO were negotiating peace into, like, extremists. They were like, no peace. Death to everyone. You know, I mean, like, it was one of those things. Several problems here. Problem number one, the warning 16 days before the attack was issued by the US government to every airline. and unfortunately in this case, it was found the day after the bombing by a PAN and employee, like, under a stack of papers, like, nobody read it, nobody knew was there.
>> Taylor: Oh, my God.
>> Farz: And this is even worse. The security screener who had X rayed the suitcase in Frankfurt, had never heard of Semtex or knew what it was until about 11 months after the. 11 months after the Accident.
>> Taylor: Wait, so why didn't they like, expedited to Pan Am? Because they said Pan Am.
>> Farz: I don't know. Maybe it was just like, Well, we. It's not 100 credible, actually went to every airline, so Pan Am.
>> Taylor: No, I know, but like, if I could make sure that Pan Am heard.
>> Farz: Yeah, yeah, maybe they heard and just didn't get passed down. It didn't go. I didn't go into too much detail about that, but yeah, I mean, they apparently had it. And. But also sort of, kind of. Did it totally matter because the security screener didn't know what explosives were?
>> Taylor: Yeah, that, I mean, yes.
>> Farz: Sounds like that's actually the last part of this outline. This section. The outline I wrote down was like, even if they had the paperwork, it probably wouldn't have been useful because they wouldn't have been able to find the bomb because they wouldn't have been able to identify that.
>> Taylor: Right. They wouldn't have known what it was anyway. Yeah.
Baggage interlining means luggage is checked in one location without screening
>> Farz: So how'd the bag get on the flight? So this is other thing I learned about air travel. So there's a concept amongst airlines called interlining, which is kind of like this accord and agreement between carriers on how they handle each other's customers, luggage, whatever, doing layovers and transfers. It's like a agreement that they're gonna, they're gonna do, do right by each other, essentially. So in the case of baggage interlining, if luggage is checked in one location and screen there, it is typically not subject to further screening by the receiving airline.
>> Taylor: I feel like that makes sense because assume that it's in like a bubble of protection sort of.
>> Farz: Not always though, because. Because it depends on whether it is a low risk airport in city that they're going into or out of and whether it's a low risk carrier that is like, it's not like, you know, some carrier in your country. Like, you know, I'm trying to think of like an example. it's not an Afghanistan air flying into New York City. You know, I mean, like, yeah, in some cases they are subject to additional screening, but not in this case. In the case of this suitcase, it was checked by Air Malta from a Malta airport in Frankfurt or. Sorry, to Frankfurt.
>> Taylor: Okay.
>> Farz: That was the origination point. So who did this? So investigators piece together that clothes were the closest to. So sorry, they. The investigators piece together what clothes were the closest to the bomb and most likely inside of the suitcase and were able to identify the brand. Yorky is the name of it. And they found a, found a made in Quote, tag stating that an item in the suitcase was made in Malta. Kind of piecing this together. They tracked down Yorkie clothing to. And they provide them samples of trousers that were recover. And they were able to say they could determine what store it was likely sold in in the past couple of weeks, which is, like, kind of nuts to me. So they settled on this one store in Malta called Mary's House and talked to the owner, a guy named Tony Gauchi. And Tony would tell investigators that he sold the trousers two weeks ago to a man who looked Libyan, spoke Arabic, English and Maltese, and who didn't particularly care what he. He was buying, what size they were, any of that stuff. Tony also described him buying other items that investigators knew were also in that suitcase. So, please.
>> Taylor: I'm sorry, I just have a thought. I feel like, wouldn't you. Like, why would you have to buy new clothes for that? I guess you don't want them to have anything to do with you.
>> Farz: I don't know. That's a good point, because I feel.
>> Taylor: Like you could just, like, shove your old clothes in there. Like, literally, who cares what's in there?
>> Farz: Yeah, they don't have DNA back then, I don't think, like, they. Yeah, weird. I never thought about that. Yeah. so police would come up with a composite sketch of this customer using Tony's description. They would also discover that on the same day and time that the suitcase was checked at the Malta airport, a flight was leaving there for Tripoli with a man named Abdel Bassett Al M. Mcrahi. And he was on board. And he also was using a false passport, which is different than a fake passport. I'll explain that here in a minute. McRae fit the description given by Tony of the customer in his shop. And so in addition to that, the timer that was used for the detonator was linked to a Swiss company that made timers exclusively for use by Libyan intelligence. And Migrahi was a known Libyan intelligence officer. This is kind of like piecing this thing together. also, as an aside, In March of 1990, the Czech President, a guy named Baklav Havel, disclosed that they had also provided a ton of Semtex explosive plastic to the government of Libya. So it was all kind of honing in on Libya, essentially.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: So eventually, Megrahi and an accomplice, a guy named, Kameen Female, were arrested and tried for the bombing. Fema, the accomplice was acquitted for a lack of evidence, but McRahi was found guilty and sentenced to life in prison in Scotland. This all going on in Scotland. Remarkably, eight and a half years into his sentence, he was diagnosed with terminal cancer. And Scotland released him on grounds of compassionate release. And In August of 2009, he was, he was flown back to Libya on Muammar Gaddafi's personal jet.
>> Taylor: I remember that.
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: Wild.
>> Farz: Wild. He would undergo medical treatment for his cancer. He would ultimately die on May 20th of 2012. Obama came out and was like, this is insane. I can't believe you guys are doing this. Like, why are you doing this?
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: So he actually claimed innocence on his part and he did the OJ Thing of saying he's going to catch the real culprit one day. his family actually continued that after his death. But that being said, he might actually be innocent because under what circumstance would you release a guy who had killed nearly 260 people?
>> Taylor: Right.
>> Farz: Like it makes no sense why they would, why they did this.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: There's some other things I learned that don't really prove that he didn't do it, but at least it kind of cast doubt on whether he did or not. One thing I read is that a lot was made of him using that false passport in Malta. So a fake passport is literally a fake passport. Like it's this is bullshit that you print yourself or have printed for you. A fake false passport is a real passport that is issued by a country. So a lot of times intelligence agencies will issue false passports for obvious reasons to conceal the identity of what people are doing when they're traveling for official government business. Right. So apparently at this time, so a little bit, little bit of background, Libya is like a Muslim country and it's not known for decadence or like gratuitous, like sexual things. Like it's not known for that.
>> Farz: Malta was, Malta was considered kind of like a decadent place, like a sexy kind of a place. And this guy Megrahi was buried, and they were religious and he knew he was going to go to Malta. And some of the arguments I read about this, where he used his false passport, which he shouldn't have used if he's flying for personal reasons because he was leaving his real passport at home. So his wife doesn't think that he's going to Malta to do probably cheating stuff there is like the argument.
>> Taylor: Sure.
>> Farz: The other thing I read was about this Tony Gauchi guy, the shop owner. And there were some inconsistencies with his story he had said. So I, I guess in Malta it's like, I mean, I guess like any Other city here in the US this all happened in December. And when investigators had asked him if, like, they were trying to get a timing of this thing, they're like, your memory's probably not 100%. Let's figure out what some markers are that we can kind of base.
Taylor: How would you know that guy spoke three languages
>> Taylor: Yeah, I feel like his stuff was like, how would you know that guy spoke three languages.
>> Farz: That's weird, right? I thought about that.
>> Taylor: Super weird. Like, I said that never, that doesn't come up with. And when I'm selling someone pants, like.
>> Farz: If I'm in Malta, a Maltese and some guy speaking Maltese to me, maybe at most he gets a phone call and he takes it in Arabic or in English. But, like, also, he wouldn't take a phone call because he has no cell phone.
>> Taylor: Right. He's like, yeah, exactly. That's just like a weird.
>> Farz: How do you know that?
>> Taylor: It's a weirdly specific thing to know.
>> Farz: But here's the thing. So what he said, as investors are trying to get him to, like, give us some details that we can hone in on timing. The city government in this part of Malta, they do a bunch of Christmas lighting around town, which is like any city does. And, And he specifically stated when this guy was in his store to buy clothes, there was no Christmas lights. They go back, they check the records, they realize that the guy. So they go back to check that the date the lights go on go up. Like, the city has records of when they start putting lights up, when the lights go on and all that stuff. this guy was for sure in Malta on this false passport after the Christmas lights were strung up. So they know for sure your memory's not. It's hazy or wrong on this. This piece. He, apparently also had seen a photo of Megrahi in a magazine after the bombing, and that was done. And then days later, he had to positively identify him like in a lineup. And so, ah, that was another piece of it.
>> Taylor: Was he supposed. Was. Was that guy supposed to be on, ah, that flight?
>> Farz: No. No.
>> Taylor: But how did his luggage get on it?
>> Farz: That's so. Damn, I wish I. I should have honed it on that Taylor. I did not hone in on that. But, like, he was. It was the only unaccompanied piece of luggage on that flight.
>> Taylor: And why was that even a thing?
>> Farz: I don't know. Unless it was like, Maybe it could have been like a, What's it called, Like a commercial thing where it's like, just send this stuff on my, like.
>> Taylor: Yeah, I mean, my like, he's, like. He's, like, sending it. I know my luggage has definitely traveled without me before, you know, but it was like a mistake.
>> Farz: Was like.
>> Taylor: Yeah, on purpose.
>> Farz: That happened to me in Mexico City. Like, I had to go.
>> Taylor: I thought, like, just happened to you, right?
>> Farz: Yeah, literally, like, two months ago. So that was the other thing, was that he'd seen a photo of this guy in the magazine, as people were, like, throwing around ideas of who could have done this. After the trial, the Scottish official who oversaw the case called Board Advocate, which, like, man, that is so over the top, but kind of cool. that person described him as, quote, an apple short of a picnic. And in an overlap between our stories, he also received from the US Department of Justice an award for providing testimony and evidence against McRahi. Can you guess how much money he got?
>> Taylor: $85,000.
>> Farz: At that time, in the late eight 1980s, early 1990s, he got $4 million to do this testimony.
>> Taylor: I was kind of mentioning rewards because, like, whoever turned that guy in this week is not going to get that award. The reward, you know?
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: Like, no one ever really gets them. So that's suspicious. Af.
>> Farz: Yeah. He got a crazy award from the US Government.
>> Taylor: Wild.
>> Farz: That was, again, like, I don't. I don't know what that is. It's probably got to be somewhere in, like, the 6, 7 million dollar range, maybe even higher than that today.
>> Taylor: That's wild.
>> Farz: And he's, like, living in Malta. Like, that's. He's probably the richest guy in Malta because of that.
>> Taylor: Yeah, dude.
>> Farz: And. And frankly, on appeal, when Marahi was running his appeals before he got released, the Scottish version of the Supreme Court, they have over there, they said the reward payment could constitute a miscarriage of justice. So, like, they called that. I was like, this was, like, gratuitously over the top and would. It would taint anybody's perspective of anything.
>> Taylor: Yeah, I mean, the crime is horrific, you know, like, was it like. I was looking at 270 people died, like, terrible, but, like. Yeah, no, that's weird.
>> Farz: Taylor, for $4 million, I would tell anybody that you did whatever crime they told me.
>> Taylor: M. Like, that guy. Suspicious.
Suspicious. I wouldn't even blame you if you did it. To me, I'd be like, fair play
Suspicious.
>> Farz: Yeah. I wouldn't even blame you if you did it. To me, I'd be like, fair play.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: I'm in jail.
>> Farz: M. So regardless.
The one thing that we do know is that Libya was at fault for this
The one thing that we do know, though, is that Libya was at fault for this. The reason being is that Muammar Gaddafi in 2003 literally stated that they were responsible for this. and they paid out some fines to people. But there's some, like, weirdness around that too, because the reasoning behind why they would have done this is also a little bit suspicious. Like, suspicious, like, we don't know for sure why they would have done this. There's some guesses that the US intelligence community has. So one is that it is presumed that this has something to do with airstrikes the US launched in Tripoli and Benghazi in response to an attack in Berlin performed by Libya that killed to it two US soldiers. Also, that airstrike specifically targeted Gaddafi himself. Like they were trying to kill him with airstrikes, which is like, crazy to think about right now. Yeah, but it was also, It also could have been, meant to serve as kind of like a middle finger to Western powers at the time, because around this time is when the ira, the Irish Republican army, was actively fighting in the UK and ended up with the establishment of North Ireland. and the PLO were also highly active in m. Militant combat. And it was assumed Gaddafi just wanted to maybe demonstrate that they have capacity to wage guerrilla war on the west as well. And this was like a way to do that.
>> Taylor: Yeah, I, reminded me when you said Libyans, the Libyans were like, in. Remember Back to the Future, when he's trying to do it. Like, that was like a big thing. That was 1985. So, like. Yeah, that's like, obviously happening.
>> Farz: That scene, that scene. Like, I saw that way too young. I saw that way. I saw that and was like, just. It's. I had nightmares forever about how Doc was killed. Well, he wasn't killed, but, you know.
>> Taylor: Yeah, I know. You know what I mean?
>> Farz: So there was also another situation which I never knew about, which is absolutely crazy. The US under Ronald Reagan. This is presumed accidentally, but we don't know. Obviously. They shot down an Iranian passenger plane, killing 290 people. And they say it was an accident. I didn't go too into the weeds on that one, but they say it was an accident. Iran obviously feels differently.
>> Taylor: This is definitely. And we didn't start the fire because there's definitely terror on the airlines as like a whole thing.
>> Farz: Right. We can connect. Thank God. We can connect that dot. and the other idea was that this could have been Lockerbie, could have been a way for Gaddafi to show, like, solidarity to Iran, to, like, gain allegiance there. due to a number of sanctions being passed by the us. That's kind of the whole story. it. Yeah, it's, it's, it's A weird one because we don't have any thousand percent proof of who did it or do.
>> Taylor: They have like, why would this guy have done it? Just because.
>> Farz: Well, because, because, yeah, because he was, he's a Libyan intelligence officer working for the government and if Gaddafi wanted him to do it, then he did it. That's kind of the idea.
>> Taylor: So if it wasn't him, it was somebody else who had like the same job probably.
>> Farz: Yeah, yeah.
>> Taylor: I, again, he obviously didn't do by himself.
>> Farz: No, he definitely didn't do it by himself. I, I, I, So the Scottish government, in the aftermath of this, it seems like there's probably been more focus on the potential that he didn't to it because, because the, the $4 million payout and the fact that his testimony was the key biggest thing. There's a lot of other details here I kind of left out, which is like his description also really didn't fit this guy. Like yeah, he described a Middle Eastern guy, but he also described a guy who was like in his 50s. And this guy was like 30 when this happened. and he described him as having like a very, very abnormally large head and the guy was like normal looking. Like there's, there's just like things that are in discrepancy but also like my, if you were to ask you what I had for dinner five nights ago, I don't know, but you know, totally.
>> Taylor: Witness testimony is wild. Like you can't remember anything but which.
>> Farz: Is why you probably shouldn't incentivize it with a four million dollar bounty. Right? Like, yeah, you'd say anything at that.
>> Taylor: Point and like are you putting yourself in any danger by turning that guy in? Or they just like need us, need you to do it to get it over with?
>> Farz: No, I think this guy, yeah, I don't think he was in any danger. I think you're just like cool. he lives in Malta. Who cares?
>> Taylor: Yeah, sounds nice there.
>> Farz: It does sound nice there. but yeah, that was the worst air disaster in Scottish history. and until Tenerife it was the deadliest. Involving just like planes.
>> Taylor: Wow.
>> Farz: Yeah, that's wild.
>> Taylor: Poor people. Or Lockerbie didn't deserve that. They didn't weren't even involved. Raining down on their town.
>> Farz: That was the other thing that was interesting. It reminded me a lot of like the Ed Gein story, which is like in, in small towns when crazy things.
>> Taylor: Like this happen, it's like all your, all you have.
>> Farz: Well, there's no resource for it. Like you don't have the Resource. Like, wait, so you're telling me in Scotland, who has zero aviation history, I got to rebuild from scratch a blown apart 747. Like, it's, you know, the other governments have to get involved in this kind of stuff also because of the footprint of the wreckage. Over 800 miles square miles. Like, it was way beyond their own individual resources to be able to collect all this stuff.
>> Taylor: Totally.
>> Farz: but you can see pictures of it. You can see the reconstruction.
Taylor: Thank you for sharing that story. I thought it was kind of interesting
And it's like crazy how, how much they put together.
>> Taylor: I know. That's a lot.
>> Farz: Yeah. Yeah. Ah, so. So, yeah, that's my story this week. I thought it was kind of interesting. You know, originally I'd asked Chad GPT to come up with disaster stories for, Christmas, or Christmas Eve. And it gave me this. And I was already like 90% done with the research. I was like, wait, I never wrote down the date of this. It was like December 21st. Like, oh, well, close enough. Close enough.
>> Taylor: Yeah, yeah, yeah, close enough. cool. Well, thank you for sharing that. It's definitely scary.
>> Farz: Also, Muammar Gaddafi, if we don't know he's. He's been killed.
>> Taylor: Yeah. But like, very, very recently. 20, 19, 10 years ago.
>> Farz: Less than that, then it's very recently less than 20. 10 year. 2019.
>> Taylor: 2019 was five years ago, right?
>> Farz: That is true. He was killed in 2011.
>> Taylor: Oh, okay. Farther, farther away, but still.
>> Farz: Yeah, he was also an absolutely crazy person. Anyways, that's all I got. anything you have for sailor.
>> Taylor: Thank you. Thank you. no, nothing else. Again. We're going to be on break for a few weeks and we will see you all next year.
>> Farz: Friendly reminder again, dubnafilpod, gmail.com or on any of the socials at dubnafilpod, we would love to get negative criticism and feedback so we can work on improving things. Positive feedback's great too, because it helps us stay positive.
>> Taylor: First is worried about. He wants to hear the negative feedback because, like, we want to grow, so how can we grow?
>> Farz: Yeah, like the, stories resonating, are they not? What would resonate? Is my voice doing it for you or not? Like, whatever it is, just any feedback, we'll take it.
>> Taylor: Yeah. I'm gonna try to talk about all of our episodes on TikTok. So I went back to episode one and, like, kind of brought it up and I'm gonna keep pushing those to social media and hopefully that will get us a couple more listeners as well. There was a, post office worker who commented on my post on about, I think, episode one on TikTok, and they were like, I need something new for my route. let me download all of these now, so. Thank you.
>> Farz: Yeah, thank you.
>> Taylor: That's awesome. And, yeah, if you are looking for something to listen to, keep this in mind, play friends. We have lots of stuff.
>> Farz: Sweet.
>> Taylor: This is episode 161.
>> Farz: So we're getting up there.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: Pretty, Anything? Anything else?
>> Taylor: No. Merry Christmas. Happy New Year.
>> Farz: Christmas. Happy New Year. We'll see you all on the other side of it. Thanks, Taylor.
>> Taylor: Thank you.