In an effort to try to understand WTF is going on as Los Angeles burns, Taylor spent a lot of time this week looking for misinformation and trying to find facts in this mess. One thing is for sure thank you Cal Fire for all you are doing to stop this disaster. It's wildly complicated; we're glad we don't work in accounting for a state or large city. One thing that stood out is that 800 or so of the firefighters in LA right now are currently incarcerated. We go back to the 13th Amendment, which says that essentially, slavery & indentured servitude can be used as punishment for a crime. This is still the case in California, where just this November, people voted 'No' on Prop 6 that would have removed 'Slavery' from California. Back in LA, and the 800 incarcerated people fighting wildfires. They are paid, although very, very little, and they are part of the California Conservation Camp program. It's a tough job, and we are so grateful that they are doing it. It's again back to the budget; where does CA's 130k per prisoner every year go? How can the system support these firefighters to become actual firefighters after they are released? So many other resources are needed to move forward. Anyway! Let us know what you think! Here's where we donated GoFundMe Donation Page – https://www.gofundme.com/c/act/wildfire-relief/california Anti Recidivism - https://antirecidivism.org/
In an effort to try to understand WTF is going on as Los Angeles burns, Taylor spent a lot of time this week looking for misinformation and trying to find facts in this mess. It's wildly complicated; we're glad we don't work in accounting for a state or large city. One thing is for sure thank you Cal Fire for all you are doing to stop this disaster.
One thing that stood out is that 800 or so of the firefighters in LA right now are currently incarcerated. We go back to the 13th Amendment, which says that essentially, slavery & indentured servitude can be used as punishment for a crime. This is still the case in California, where just this November, people voted 'No' on Prop 6 that would have removed 'Slavery' from California.
Back in LA, about 800 incarcerated people fight wildfires. They are paid, although very, very little, and they are part of the California Conservation Camp program. It's a tough job, and we are so grateful that they are doing it. It's again back to the budget; where does CA's 130k per prisoner every year go? How can the system support these firefighters to become actual firefighters after they are released? So many other resources are needed to move forward.
Anyway! Let us know what you think!
GoFundMe Donation Page – https://www.gofundme.com/c/act/wildfire-relief/california
Anti Recidivism - https://antirecidivism.org/
Who caused the LA fires? Blame swirls amid tragedy. - https://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2025/01/10/california-wildfires-who-to-blame/77593196007/
https://www.drought.gov/topics/soil-moisture
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Ana_winds
That’s not right politics - https://www.instagram.com/reel/DErGsZMsU9A/?igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==
LA Times - https://www.instagram.com/reel/DErBUFNRSjH/?igsh=NjZiM2M3MzIxNA==
Lacontroller - https://www.instagram.com/lacontroller/?hl=en
Fire fighters https://www.instagram.com/reel/DEqrBKLvXrq/?igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==
Pod save America https://www.instagram.com/p/DEs7XapSIuB/?img_index=1&igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==
https://www.instagram.com/reel/DEsnC-eh6BY/?igsh=NTc4MTIwNjQ2YQ==
FACT CHECK: Oregon fire engines allowed to fight wildfires in California - https://katu.com/news/local/fact-check-oregon-fire-engines-allowed-to-fight-wildfires-in-california
CA Voter Guide 2024 - https://vig.cdn.sos.ca.gov/2024/general/pdf/complete-vig.pdf
https://voterguide.sos.ca.gov/propositions/6/arguments-rebuttals.htm
California prisoners are battling wildfires in long-running and controversial practice - https://laist.com/news/climate-environment/california-wildfires-incarcerated-firefighters-2025#do-they-completely-choose-what-they-do
https://www.charitynavigator.org/ein/462140915?donateNow=true&source=searchAutocomplete
https://www.cdcr.ca.gov/facility-locator/conservation-camps/
Hi Friends! Our transcripts aren't perfect, but I wanted to make sure you had something - if you'd like an edited transcript, I'd be happy to prioritize one for you - please email doomedtofailpod@gmail.com - Thanks! - Taylor
Doomed to Fail is the podcast that brings you history's most notorious disasters
>> Taylor: In the matter of the people of State of California vs. Oriental James Simpson, case number BA097. And so, my fellow Americans, ask not.
>> Farz: What your country can do for you.
>> Taylor: Ask what you can do for your country.
>> Farz: Boom. We are recording. Taylor. Hello. This is my radio voice. I've been practicing it. Do you like it?
>> Taylor: I do, I like it. Should we do vocal warm ups before we start? Like red leather, yellow leather. That's the only one I know.
>> Farz: I don't know.
>> Taylor: Red leather, yellow leather. You know, you learn that in. You take theater or eighth grade? I don't know.
>> Farz: I did take theater in actually 8th and 9th grade, but I don't.
>> Taylor: I, I wish I had been in a play, but I wasn't in any.
>> Farz: Place I was in a play. It was really embarrassing for me. You know, I learned my, my deep feeling fear of being noticed in public. I think it is original, it is sourced to that experience.
>> Taylor: What play was that?
>> Farz: I can't remember the name, but I know that I was like an attendee of. I was a guest at a house pretty where murder happened and the detective said that I had to like pop a balloon or something. And when you pop the balloon, like a piece of paper that was inside of it was in there. You read that out. Anyways, I popped the balloon. I couldn't find the piece of paper on the floor, on the ground in the middle of the entire place. And I panicked and I started like just holding my hand up and reading my hand and was like, this looks really bad.
>> Taylor: Oh, poor baby. I watched Clue last night.
>> Farz: It was kind of like that.
>> Taylor: Yeah. Oh, I'm sorry that happened to you. Cool. hi everyone. I feel world smidge low right now. Welcome to Doomed to Fail. We are the podcast that brings you history's most notorious disasters, epic failures and such twice a week. And I'm Taylor joined by pars.
>> Farz: Hey Taylor, give me one second while I go get my glasses.
>> Taylor: Okay. I did get, I did go to th eye doctor for his left memories anyway. And I do also need bifocals. I feel like they'll help. I'm not wearing them now. I'm not like blind, but eventually I'll get them. Well, I ordered them and then when I get them I will wear them more often. I was telling everyone that I ordered my, my bifocals.
>> Farz: I think you're going to be pleasantly surprised.
>> Taylor: I know, I'm excited.
>> Farz: Like I said, it's like everything's in 10K. Like you're just, you're going to Be like, shocked. You're like, wait, this is what every. Everything looked like. Yeah, it was so much smaller. cool.
I have a question about what's going on in la
Well, should we go ahead and dive in?
>> Taylor: Yes. I have a question. I think you were supposed to go first today.
>> Farz: Sure.
>> Taylor: can I go first?
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: because I want to talk a little bit about what's going on in la. A little bit right now. First.
>> Farz: Yeah, go for it.
>> Taylor: Okay, thank you. so let me scroll at the top of my things. Whoa. it's been like a crazy week with everything happening in LA and a ton. A bunch of people. I mean, several people I know have lost their homes. There's a lot of people here in Joshua Tree who are, like, refugees from it. We've donated some clothes and stuff like that. People have, like, bunch people over and it's just really been awful. You still there?
>> Farz: Yes, I'm listening.
>> Taylor: You can hear me.
There's a lot of misinformation out there about California wildfires right now
Okay, so, we. We've talked a lot about fires. I have like, I'm. I have a bunch of, like, prep stuff to say and then I have my topics that I m. Want to talk about. so we've covered fires, ones in London, Chicago and San Francisco. And part of the issue that's happening in California right now is like, no amount of money can stop the wind, you know, and these winds are just out of absolutely insane. And being able to, like, move, you know, burning embers like a mile a minute, they. They are moving so fast. and this is something very similar to what we've talked to, we've talked about in the other cases as well. Like, you have a dry winter, the driest summer on record, like one of the driest winters you've ever had. And then you have these wins that are insane. And a couple of things from social media that I wanted to clear up, and this is, I wanted to go first because at least we can do this on Monday and then things might change. This is like, what I know right now. I have like a million links as my sources, but I was reading much stuff on Instagram and there's a lot of, like, weird stuff that isn't true and stuff that is true. the LA Times reporter Karen Garcia recommended going to charity navigator or guidestar before donating to a charity. And no, GoFundMe also verifies who like that they verify their things as well. So not. You hopefully won't get scammed during that. And also, like, if you see something that feels really weird, it feels like it may not be true, you can reverse image search it. So, like, I Don't know if you saw that. Everybody was saying the Hollywood sign was on fire.
>> Farz: I did not see that.
>> Taylor: No, it's not. But that was like, one thing that was like, up there.
M. I. asks about California wildfires and climate change
a couple things that I wanted to talk to you all about about the weather is like, as of right now. So this is at Sunday. We don't know what started them. I don't, I don't believe. But, like, I saw someone famous and I won't say who it is because I think that they're. They're actually going crazy out hunting for arsonists and saying that they were going to, like, find arsonists in the woods and stab them.
>> Farz: Like an actor.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: Was it Mel Gibson?
>> Taylor: No, but I did see him dying. Climate change as his house is burning down. So, can we.
>> Farz: You won't tell us who the celebrity is?
>> Taylor: No, I'm like, actually, like, worried about them, I think. Yeah, but don't do that, obviously. But we do know it's been a record dry winter from drought.gov, which is a website. The soil moisture in Southern California. So that's like the amount of moisture per square, like, square yard is almost zero. So it's like, there's no. It hasn't rained in a really long time. Parts of California, like the Pacific Palisades, have always had these grow and burn patterns. And that's something that, like, occurs in nature, right? Like, some. Some bushes will grow really big and then they hit by lightning, they burn down, and then it happens again. And there's like, definitely precedent for, like, burning a crop and then doing it again and like resetting the soil and things like that. I saw something about how, like, native people knew this. obviously that's true in places like the dust bowl where like, the white people came in and ruined it because they were like, oh, we're not gonna let the land rest. We could just do twice as much, blah, blah. We could talk about the dust bowl later, but I don't really understand that argument. So I don't know how much you've been looking at this far as. But like, someone saying that, like, this here has always been like these. Like, it's always burned and then come back. But if we took all of the vegetation away and built houses, I don't know if that's the reason that it would still burn. Like, I understand that we. It's a tinderbox, but I don't know.
>> Farz: If it's like, it would burn more because then the vegetation retains moisture that a house doesn't. Yeah, that's What? That's so. So here's my perspective on all of this. Like, obviously, like, this is going to keep happening over and over and over and over and over again one way or another. Like in California, in parts of California, it's either a wildfire or an earthquake's going to get you, like, one of the two things. Like, it's just. It's just maybe, I mean, not for you, because you guys are way out there, but, like, that's just the nature of the populous parts.
>> Taylor: Did I freeze? I see you again.
>> Farz: Yep. Yep. Okay, you're back. You're back.
>> Taylor: Okay. Yeah. You froze for me to be froze for each other. I. Yeah. In the middle of this, like, they took our power out a couple days because they take. They turn the power off in Joshua Tree, Yucca Valley, because that reduces our risk for fire because our firemen aren't here, they're in la, you know, can.
>> Farz: We kill our video?
>> Taylor: Yeah. Yes. So.
>> Farz: So M. So my point is that, like, that's just the nature of California, and it's so fascinating because a lot of parts around the country where people want to live also have the exact same issues. So I was listening to Pod Save America, and they were interviewing Gavin Newsom. And, you probably know this stuff because I've never owned property. Really?
>> Taylor: Really?
>> Farz: In California you have. So, like, he was talking about how insurers are leaving the state, and M. There's two factors that I thought was really interesting. One was them mandating by law to be in the state and then precluding them from leaving you uninsured if you file a claim. So apparently right now there's a law in California saying that if you file a claim, you can't be dropped for a year. So all the people who are filing for claims right now, like, hopefully, they don't have to do it after that because they're gonna dropped. And it was interesting because it's the exact same situation in Florida with rising sea levels and hurricanes. It's the exact same thing. It's just, I don't know, maybe collectively as a human species, maybe there's parts of the world that we should probably back out of a little bit as climate change becomes a bigger and bigger problem. But, like, that's kind of the. I mean, when this. When I was living in L. A, this same thing happened, except it was, Malibu specifically.
>> Taylor: And I remember.
>> Farz: What's the university there again?
>> Taylor: Pepperdine.
>> Farz: Pepperdine where? Pepperdine. What they had done is they have this, like, fire, wildfire, Suppression system that's been around for years, where they literally just water the lawns. They keep water all over the lawns, all over the trees. It's non stop, it's drenched, wet, and so when the fire gets to it, it extinguishes itself and won't go any further. Which is what I think you mentioned when you. What you're referring to when you said when Native Americans were there is like, yeah, it wasn't kindling because it wasn't just a bunch of houses. It wasn't a bunch of dead wood framed up to a house. It was real living wood.
>> Taylor: But it also would burn down. Like, it was like invasive species that every year would burn and they knew it and they, like, just wouldn't be there. And I was burning.
>> Farz: That also makes sense. Maybe the magnitude and degree of it is different, but, yeah, like, this isn't crazy. I mean, in Texas, their control burns all the time. Yes, they're controlled and hopefully they stay controlled, but when they're not, they turn into this.
Gavin Newsom says California wildfires are happening because of climate change
>> Taylor: That's how it is. Yeah. I feel like I'm close to, like, getting it, but I feel like a little bit off. As in, like, the. Why does it have to happen? But I think it just. It's happening because, like, it's drier years and then the winds are getting worse and, like, all those things are happening.
>> Farz: So in that interview with Gavin Newsom, one thing he said, and look, there's like, everybody is incentivized to say whatever they say. Right?
>> Taylor: Like, exactly. You watched that. Because that's what I want to talk about.
>> Farz: Yeah. So if you're like, if you're in charge of the government, government of California, you're going to blame other things. If you're not in charge and want to be in charge, you're gonna blame the people in charge. Like, of course that's how it's gonna work. And there's gonna be, like, a truth somewhere down the middle. But one thing that he said that I thought was interesting because the way he said it, I was like. He just said it was such conviction. I was like, there's no chance. This isn't 100 true. He was talking about how he was, like, on some ridge, looking into, like, parts of the wildfire they could see over, like, into. And he was like, I kid you not, I saw a spark leave the embers of where I was looking. And within like, 60 seconds, the other hilltop was ablaze.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: And I was like, yeah, that's. I mean, how do you stop that?
>> Taylor: No, I know I know, it's so. It's so insane.
The Santa Ana winds are really bad right now
one thing that. Another thing is that that ties into is the wind. So the Santa Ana winds are. Are really bad right now. I'm gonna explain kind of what they are. It also reminds, remember in the Great Fire of London that like, at that same time, the king or whoever and the navy was in, like, the sea by Scandinavia about to have like a big naval battle. And then they called it off because it was so windy. Like, that's how windy it was in London in the Great Fire of London day. It was just like, primed to be that windy. And that's exactly what you just said that Newsom saw.
The Santa Ana winds come in the fall, through January to Southern California
So the Santa Ana winds, their winds at.
>> Farz: Wait, that's our topic for today.
>> Taylor: No, I'm not even there yet.
>> Farz: No. Okay.
>> Taylor: The Santa Ana winds come in the fall, through January to Southern California and Baja California. They come from a cold front down from the Great Basin. And the Great Basin is like the top of Nevada, everything but Las Vegas, a chunk of Utah, a chunk of Oregon. And they are dry winds and they blow like over the mountains and they're called, katabatic winds, which means they blow downhill. It's like a strong warm wind, super dry downhill from that part of the. Of the United States to the coast. there are some quotes, this is from Wikipedia, but, like, they're interesting. So from the book red wind from 1938, author Raymond Chandler wrote, quote, there was a desert wind blowing that night. It was one of those hot, dry Santa Anas that come down through the mountain passes and curl your hair and make your nerves jump and your skin itch. A night like that, every booze party ends in a fight. Meek little wives feel the edge of the carving knife and study their husband's necks. Anything can happen. You can even get a full glass of beer at a cocktail lounge. So, like, people report feeling weird when the city anders are blowing. It's probably because there's a lot of static electricity in the air. Because it's them.
>> Farz: Sure.
>> Taylor: And, also, Bad Religion wrote a song in 2004 called Los Angeles is Burning. And part of that is, quote, when the hills of Los Angeles are burning. Palm trees are candles in the murder winds. So many lives are on the breeze. Even the stars are ill at ease. And Los Angeles is burning. So it's like a cultural thing too. You know, people know, it happens. it will probably get worse. and like you were saying, like, everyone's going to blame. Blame everybody else. This is definitely, like, not the Time to blame. Like, the money given to Ukraine has nothing to do with this. It couldn't have helped here.
>> Farz: You know, real quick, just, I'm m trying to gauge where you at, where you're at with this whole thing because to me, like, this isn't like really a tragedy. It's like a natural effect. And it is, it's like written in time, immemorial, forever and ever that California has wildfires. So like, where are you, is this like a, you're like a 911 situation for you or like, is it like, what are you thinking?
>> Taylor: No, no, I'm just giving. I just want to bring a little bit of stuff that's like, just so some true things so we're not spreading any misinformation. And then I have my topic coming.
>> Farz: Okay. Okay. Are you seeing a lot of misinformation?
>> Taylor: Yes.
>> Farz: Okay. Are you going to say what that is or.
>> Taylor: Yeah, well, I'm saying right now. So like they. People are saying that like, you know, the money that the government's spending and other things could have helped and like, that's not necessarily true in this case. Like, we know it's going to happen and we could be better prepared, but like, we're as prepared as we could have been. So I have a couple more things too. the FEMA budget is not depleted. It has $27 billion in it. Biden asked for $40 billion, but Republicans fought it down to 27. it probably needs more money because this is just going to get worse and worse. Like, I've never heard of FEMA before Katrina. Right. Had you?
>> Farz: Probably not. Heck of heck of a job. Brownie was the first time I heard of fema.
>> Taylor: Yeah. And I mean, even though we are, like maybe it happened. That was like, when I was like, starting to understand the news and like getting older, but like, I don't know, I feel like, I hear as it happens, you need it so much right now because there's so many disasters. You know, there's actually. And then there's stuff back and forth about the LA Fire Department budget. people are saying that Karen Bass cut it by 17 million, but it's actually risen by 7%. But that's not enough to cover like, all of the repairs, all of the cost of living increases and all the things. So even though the budget is raising because budgets have to raise every couple years anyway before people to live, there have been cuts in administrative teams, which does affect everything. there should be $76 million more dollars still coming. Those negotiations are still happening. So saying that they cut it that badly right now is not true. They're still working on it. but also, the LA budget is a mess. The LA controller, Kenneth Mayha, is pissed and he is talking on Instagram about how the fire budget has been cut. How the money is coming isn't like, coming soon. The extra 76 million and just showing how much more money LA spends on the police than anything else is really wild, which is like a different topic. But, like, those are the, like, LA government arguments people are having right now.
Gavin: The water situation in Los Angeles is incredibly complicated
>> Farz: I also heard, and I think, I mean, you would probably know about this more than I would. I mean, you sort of, you, you sort of covered it with, salt and sea. But, like, the water situation in Los Angeles sounds like it would take a million PhDs, a million years to untangle.
>> Taylor: I think that's totally true. M. It's so much more complicated than, like, you.
>> Farz: I mean, it's impossible pointing to one person or.
>> Taylor: Yeah, yeah, exactly, exactly, exactly. And so as far as water goes, there is water, but it's a pressure issue, which was also saw in the San Francisco fire. Because these water. Water has to go uphill at such an alarming speed and quantity that, like, the reservoirs have water in them. They just can't get to the tanks fast enough because the tanks are being depleted so fast. Because it's just nonstop water. You know, like the Pepperdine example, you know, like they're not on fire, but, like, they do use, use a lot of water to just soak everything once everything's on fire. It's just like such a crazy amount of water that you need. You know, the winds are like a hundred miles per hour. So it's like, like you said that. Exactly what you said that you can see a spark and then it will fly across and do something else so fast. there is. The water's not being diverted to save a fish. That was something that Trump said about Newsom, and that's not true. they also have a bunch of people coming from other countries, so Mexican firefighters and Canadian firefighters. Have you seen the Canadian super scooper planes?
>> Farz: No, I don't think so.
>> Taylor: It's cool. So one of them, Canada sent to. They have. They have a ton of wildfires as well, obviously, because they're on, like, the coast too, same area, and they have a lot of forests. But a super scooper plane literally scoops water out of the ocean and then dumps it on the fire. Isn't that cool?
>> Farz: Yeah, it seems like a hyper inefficient way to do it, but, yeah, it's cool.
>> Taylor: Well, when the water can't come when there's no more water.
>> Farz: I know, I know. It's just like, the thing you don't want in a aircraft is a ton of weight, and the heaviest thing is liquid.
>> Taylor: Well, that's exactly right. That's exactly the problem. So the problem with water that we know from all the other fires we've talked about is that it's heavy. You know, you can't just, like, bring a bunch of water somewhere. Like a bucket brigade brigade. Like, you can't hold more than two buckets. You know, like, it's heavy. So, Canada sent two super scooper planes, and one of them is down because it hit a drone. Because the person using their drone and they hit this plane.
>> Farz: That sucks.
>> Taylor: Yeah. This is so bad. oh, another thing. So I saw someone saying that, like, the trucks from Oregon fire trucks in Oregon were being turned away due to emissions, and that's not true either. no vehicles from Oregon have been turned away or refused by California because they don't meet California emission standards. Also not true.
>> Farz: Can, I say I'm, like. I'm, like, impressed that you are getting these misinformation campaigns, because, I mean, all our social media algorithms are different.
>> Taylor: And I think I'm getting. I'm getting the misinformation information campaigns. you know, I'm getting the pots and mix.
>> Farz: Okay.
>> Taylor: The one with. The one with the Oregon trucks being pulled away, I did someone I know who I unfollowed, someone from college who, like, doesn't say much, but said this. They were like. They said liberalism kills. Like, blaming the emissions standards for these trucks not coming in when, like, A, it's not true, and B, like, what are you talking about? You know? but. So a couple things have, like, tried to the. But mostly I'm getting, like, the positive America stuff and the, you know, LA Times. Things that are trying to tell you, like, what's really going on as best as they can.
>> Farz: You know, I think the pod save guys are kind of pissed because they actually all live in la, too.
>> Taylor: Yeah, of course, of course.
>> Farz: Like, his tone with Gavin Newsom was not, like, deferential and, like, nice. I mean, he wasn't rude, but it was like. It was like, hey, it's, kind of crazy. Like, what's, like. It was. I was shocked. You should listen to it. It was really.
>> Taylor: I did. Oh, yeah, yeah. And, yeah, that's what I mean. Like, they are, like, what are we going to do? You know, like, it's if. If people who are angry and, like, have every right to be angry because they've, like, lost everything. When those people who are just, like, ex. From other places, like, bringing their opinions in. And that's where I'm like. That's where I'm, like, feeling it. The people, like, you know, people being like, oh, celebrities lost everything, but they're rich. Who cares? I'm like, they still lost their homes and people that work for them don't have jobs anymore. You know, all sorts of things. Like, no matter what, it's a terrible thing to happen. And, like, we should figure out. There's a lot of stuff is gonna have to change. And I think that that's, like, a big part of it. I don't even know how you begin to rebuild something like this. It's just crazy. Does that make sense?
If your house was destroyed, call your insurance company immediately
Yeah, just talking about it a little bit. I just think I've been having, like, very terrible dreams about, like, the world ending. Just like.
>> Farz: I mean, it looks like the world's ending when I saw. So you know what's funny? not funny, but, like, I actually wasn't privy to anything that was going on until probably Monday afternoon. And then I caught on cnn, cnn, someone's just running in the living room while, I'm, like, walking around the house and I caught a picture of, like, the sun taken, like, during the daytime in la. I was like, what is going on in la? Like, what is this?
>> Taylor: I mean, it happened so fast. Like, Juan was there on Tuesday and then came home Tuesday night and it was, like, super windy. But it wasn't, like, hadn't hit Altadena yet. It hadn't hit all the other places yet. Yeah, you know, so, anyway, I'm gonna put a link to GoFundMe, the GoFundMe donation page. I clicked around and picked a couple and donated to them. just because I do that sometimes. I just wanted to do make sure that everything was, kind of, like doing stuff in there. But, yeah, it's really awful. And if your house was destroyed. I did also post some tips on what to do, but the big thing is, like, like you were saying, far as, like, call your insurance company immediately, get in the line to, like, try to figure it out. It's going to be terrible, you know?
>> Farz: That is going to be terrible. That part's gonna be,
In California, prisoners are used as volunteer firefighters
>> Taylor: Okay, you ready for the real topic?
>> Farz: This is a hell of a setup. Yeah, let's do it.
>> Taylor: Do you know who else is helping with the firefighting? What? 30% of the firefighters.
>> Farz: Oh, my God. I was so hoping one of us would eventually do this topic.
>> Taylor: Yes. So that is awesome. You know what the place is called where you learn how to be a firefighter if you're Incarcerated?
>> Farz: No.
>> Taylor: There's 35 of them in California. They're called conservation camps. There's no better word than that. No, no, nothing better they can do than that.
>> Farz: Are they. Were they trying to do concentration? Never mind.
>> Taylor: They, now call them fire camps. It says conservation, then parentheses fire camps. I'm like, call it a fire camp or stop using the word camp. I don't know. Like, so many thoughts. and I'm just like, okay. So honestly, I've been very stressed out, and I did some perfectly legal in California drugs last night, and I was like, sitting around thinking about how you could, in one part, be like, this is a good thing for these people.
>> Farz: Real quick. Just so. Because I didn't really. We didn't really say what the topic is because I knew what she was talking about, and I got really excited. We're talking about how in California, prisoners are used as, quote, unquote, volunteer firefighters.
>> Taylor: Exactly.
>> Farz: Okay, go ahead. Sorry.
>> Taylor: Yes. So, I'm thinking, like, you could justify it because you're like, they're helping and getting job skills, but prison itself is a punishment for the crimes, you know, like this. And this isn't like learning how to, like, be an accountant or getting your law degree or getting your ged. This is like a very, very dangerous job, you know, that you are doing that you're volunteering for, but it's still very dangerous. So we got to go back all the way back to December 18, 1865, when the 13th Amendment was officially official. Do you know what the 13th Amendment is?
>> Farz: Yeah. So this is where they made slavery illegal, except. Right?
>> Taylor: Yes. Yes.
>> Farz: There's some exceptions that are carved out into the Constitution.
>> Taylor: So it has two sections. Section 2 I'm going to do first. It's normal. Congress shall have the power to enforce this article by appropriate legislation. Sure, Congress can write laws that have to do with it, but section one is neither slavery nor involuntary servitude, except as a punishment for a crime whereof the party shall have been duly convicted shall exist in the United States or any place subject to their jurisdiction. So, yeah, you can do stuff that's considered. That would be considered slavery or involuntary servitude if you're in prison.
>> Farz: Yeah. This is wild.
>> Taylor: Wild. Like, I knew that because I know I didn't, like, I didn't know it said exactly that, and I hadn't thought about it in a long time. But I know that there's things that could be a totally different topic, obviously, that, like the continuation of, like, you know, after slavery ended, they sure built a lot of private prisons and incarcerated a bunch of people. You know, so that was actually.
>> Farz: So that was what I was most curious about was like, the whole private prison, the way that we have monetized prison labor. I mean, the firefighters in California is a really, really great example. It's an extreme example of it. But, like, yes, there's also people who are making Victoria's Secret lingerie in prisons. It's just like. It's like a weird little loophole. And like, in. In, some ways I'm like, who cares? Like, if you're going to, I don't know. If it was me, I was going to spend the rest of my life in jail. I get. Put me in the forest. I'll go fight. Like, that sounds fun than living there, but. And also, on some level, depending on the person that it is, there's. There are some irredeemable people who should absolutely run into a fire.
>> Taylor: It's very. I mean, well, those people aren't the ones who are even going to give them this opportunity. You know, if you're like a real bad, bad, bad, bad, bad, bad criminal, you're not going to be allowed to be in a fire camp.
>> Farz: You won't be like a serial killer with a heart of gold.
>> Taylor: Yeah, no, that's not. Not a thing. and so, like, that, like, private prisons in itself is like a whole other topic.
California voters rejected Proposition 6 to end slavery in state prisons
But, like, I just want to flow that 13th Amendment into a thing that we voted on in California just this last election cycle. It was Proposition 6 and it lost 46 is a 53%. So I can't even find an argument for it. But for some reason it was like, so wait, okay, if I'm arguing for.
>> Farz: It, then good, right?
>> Taylor: I mean, no, opposite. I can't find an argument like the. The. So here's a proposition. The proposition was to end slavery in California's,
>> Farz: Systems.
>> Taylor: so I couldn't find an argument against it. Like, everybody was like, we should do this. Like, it was approved by so many people. Like they. The, the CA voter guide, Lori Wilson, who's an assembly member. They said, you know, vote yes for Proposition 6. It eliminates all forms of slavery and involuntary servitude within California, ensuring no person is objected to. Such Regardless of their confinement circumstances. And California voted no. They voted to keep slavery and voluntary servitude in the correctional system. And the group that.
>> Farz: I mean, there's obviously arguments for it. Like, what do you mean? There's no argument for it.
>> Taylor: Like, there was none in the voter guide. They didn't raise any money. Like, the other side didn't do anything. But it. That side won't.
>> Farz: Like, the government wants it, retailers want it. The. I mean, the state wants. I mean, all.
>> Taylor: But no one put any money to it. You know, like, the. The Vote yes group had, like, millions of dollars. Like, did their outreach. They written all the voter guides, all these things. And there was like, literally in the voter guide, it was like, this is what it says. It says ending slavery is a bipartisan priority with wide widespread support. It passed the Assembly 68 to 0. It passed the California Senate 33 to 3. And California is one of 16 states that still allow it. So, like, we reform it. Like, those are the things for voting yes. And then on the side, literally the side of paper for voting no, it said no argument here.
>> Farz: That's interesting. I'm looking up what other states allow it.
>> Taylor: Yeah. So proposition this is all from, like, the. From the rebuttal. But Proposition 6 supports national movement by closing the loophole in California's version of the 13th Amendment. While it does not change federal law, it upholds justice by preventing forced labor. In California, voluntary work programs reduce recidivism by offering skilled development and rehabilitation, aiding formally incarcerated individuals in reintegrating into society. Productive work rooted in dignity allows reintegration by letting formerly incarcerated people use their work experience as proof of their efforts. So that makes sense. Nevada still had it. Alabama just turned it off, all that. So it's in a bunch of different places. But, like, we're trying to stop it. Like, that doesn't make any sense. Right.
>> Farz: Sorry. what does it make any sense?
>> Taylor: Like, the keeping the involuntary servitude part of that, the 13th Amendment, if you're incarcerated.
>> Farz: it doesn't make sense to keep it.
>> Taylor: Like, we. Since only 16 states left, that let that allow slavery and a voluntary servitude in their prisons.
>> Farz: Yeah. I guess what I'm getting is like, I think that to the states, it does make sense because they're like, we get the labor, of course, but like.
>> Taylor: Humans should be like, I don't know.
>> Farz: I don't know. I'm like. I'm like, not totally in that wagon. Because, like, I did see that California spends somewhere around $67,000 per person to house 130. Wow. Okay, then I m. Must, have read a different state. But, like, whatever it is, it's like, okay, well, if they can offset that cost to taxpayers by, like, doing. Here's where. Here's where. It's gross to me. It's gross to me to do it for private purposes. Like, if I'm the gap and I have the option of paying prisoners no money or 3 cents an hour to make clothing for the Gap versus, like, laborers in the US or whatever, like, that's. That's exploitative in my opinion. But if you're using the labor for government functions to offset the cost of having a house, someone that's in there because of their own actions, then, yeah, sure, do it. Why not?
>> Taylor: well, that's. Slavery is literally what it says. So I feel like the prison is a punishment.
>> Farz: So I think.
Proposition 6 is for ending slavery in California's systems
I think that you're conflating, like, the pre 1865 slavery with what this is, because that was based on conditions that were immutable like this.
>> Taylor: But this one's literally. But like, Proposition 6 is for ending slavery in California's systems. Those are. Those are the words that it is uses.
>> Farz: I know, but I think you're seeing the word slavery in, like, it is. It is that. It's just like, I'm like, doing the math on it. Like. Well, yeah, like, do it, but don't do it in the gross way where it's done for private profits. Do it for the state. And for. You know, that, to me, makes sense.
>> Taylor: Well, they're already doing things like, you have to, like, have a job in jail, right? You have to, like, clean something or be a cook or like, whatever.
>> Farz: Yeah, yeah.
>> Taylor: that's one thing. But, yes, we're talking about, like, the involuntary working for, like, the gap. Like, that's okay.
>> Farz: What I was literally thinking, Taylor, as we were talking was like the old cartoons, the Looney Tune cartoons of, like, a prisoner stamping license plates. Yeah, like, that's what I mean. Like, like the. The parts of the government enterprise that has to run for the wheels to turn like that to me, like, yeah, whatever. If you have free labor and it's. We're going to call it slavery, but it's like people who voluntarily did some stupid shit and ended up in like, yeah, sure, I don't know. I don't care. I'm not like, That doesn't seem gross to me. What seems gross to me is doing it for private purposes.
>> Taylor: Well, I think. I think. I think it's both. I Think both are gross. And, like, part of it is, like, people have more incentive to keep people in the private prisons to be able to use their labor for free.
>> Farz: So that. That is. That is why I'm leaning on the gross part of this. Because, yes, the lobbying arm of private prisons.
>> Taylor: Exactly.
>> Farz: Fairly strong in their incentives are driven by private enterprise. That is where I'm like, okay, you're. You're creating a perverse set of incentives that exactly only can perpetuate human misery. But again, like, the government use case doesn't feel that way to me because there's no profit incentive and no state government is listed on the nasdaq. Like, it's. You know what I mean? Like, it's just different.
Right now there are 800 incarcerated people firefighting in California wildfires
>> Taylor: Well, okay, so as far as those, camps go, let me just tell you a little bit more about them, then you can decide more what you think. But there's, like, in the fire camps, you're not forced to do it, like I said, but it's a very, very high risk because, like, right now there are 800 incarcerated people firefighting in the wildfires in LA. So they're risking their lives literally out there fighting the fire. these fire camps have been going on since 1915. They expanded in World War II when all the men went abroad and they had to, like, figure out what to do for firefighters. So they started bringing people who were incarcerated in. right now, the 800 people who are fighting are being paid between $5.80 and $10.24 per day for being out there in the. In the fires. So on the website for the cdcr, which is the California Department of Correctional, something, it says while assigned to an active emergency, they earn an additional $1 per hour paid by Cal Fire. And then during emergencies, they can work 24 hours and 24 hours of rest on and off. The lowest skill level at that point will learn would earn $26.90 per day. So they're paid. That's how much they're paid an actual firefighter.
>> Farz: These folks. But these folks are volunteering. You can't. They're not forcing them to do this.
>> Taylor: No. But the incentives for doing it are like. Well, let me. Wait. Okay, pin on that. Because I'm gonna tell you this incentive that makes it feel weird to me. So just a little bit more facts. Like I said, 35 minimum security facilities that are fire camps in California. Two of them are for women. And like we said, so many prisons require work. you can work in the kitchen or on the ground. You can take classes you can do mental health and substance abuse things. and, and you can also do nothing. Like in some prisons, you, you don't have to do anything. You can. A lot of it's like dead time. You just sit around. But, and obviously rehabilitation is good. If you can go into prison, learn a skill, come out and get a job, that is great. You know, like, I love that. I'm all for that. Like, you're not gonna reoffend. You're just going to like, you made a mistake, you do something stupid, you learned a skill in prison and you moved on. but like, a lot of things that, like, it's not guaranteed you get these classes, not guaranteed you get into these groups, not guaranteed that you like, get mental health support. Like, that's all stuff that like, is part of what that funding goes to, is to that. But not everybody's like, guaranteed to get it, you know.
>> Farz: Sure.
>> Taylor: So in the fire camp specifically, you have to be in good behavior, obviously. You have to have no history of trying to escape, which kind of makes me laugh. But like, that's true. That's fair. you have to have less than eight years left. you. No conviction for arson, obviously, sexual offenses or escape attempts at that. You have to be physically fit. and then, so the same work, when performed by non incarcerated firefighters, pays between 40,000 and $125,000 a year, plus benefits the state from this program by paying these incarcerated firefighters 20 bucks a day and paying a. Imagining, that ours is at the top, higher end of that, that scale. So probably around like say $100,000 a year. It saves the state $100 million annually through the wage structure.
>> Farz: But there's, but you just said they're spending that $100,000 for housing and administrative purposes. They're not saving any money.
>> Taylor: I know.
>> Farz: That's what, that's why, I guess, like, I'm, going in circles on like, why this is weird. Like, not good.
>> Taylor: If it feels not good, I feel like I could go back in a circle and be like, oh, yeah, no, it's good for them. But it just, just in the end it feels bad. So to me it will. You know, this creates a system where financial incentive to have higher incarceration. Incarceration rates. there's no like collective bargaining or labor protection for people who are like, working in these prison jobs. And then also like, the racial disparities of incarceration in the United States in general means like this disperse. This disproportionately affects people of color, supporters of it people who are like, this is a good thing, valuable job training, additional benefits like time after sentences. The work is voluntary and ty sought after because even though they're getting paid like very little, it's still more than other jobs. and the low wages, like. And like you said, exactly what you decide. The low wages reflect the fact that they're getting the room and board for free anyway. Technically, you know.
>> Farz: Yeah, I'm pretty sure someone enlisted in the US military makes like 17 grand a year. But it's like, I mean, same, same like that person also doesn't have to pay for food or housing or transportation, you know.
>> Taylor: Yeah, but it's like more voluntary than this. So I sort of get that. Like, I sort of get those arguments. So like, I do.
Assembly Bill 2147 allows former fire camp participants to have criminal convictions expunged
I am going like back and forth and that's why I want to talk to you about it. But like two things. There's legislation that is an incentive to join this program and it's really fucking hard to become a firefighter. So first There's Assembly Bill 2147. It's just in California, other states have similar programs. It was passed in 2000, in 2020. So what AB 2147 means is that former fire camp participants can petition the court to expunge their record of the crime that they were in for at that moment. It's not like their whole record. If they were like in prison before this or whatever, the specifical crime that they're in prison for right now. which is a good thing because a big problem that I'm going to talk more about is like, you can't become an EMT if you have a criminal record of certain, of a certain type. And you have to be an EMT to be a firefighter. also, not all conventions convictions can be expunged. So like sexual offenses, you cannot expunge that. It's not automatic. So you have to like petition the court. You have to get a lawyer. The law doesn't guarantee employment, so you still need to meet all other requirements. Some departments still may have their own firing, hiring restrictions. And so you have to have been in the conservation camp, be released. You have to, petition the court. You have to have, you know, a bunch of documentation goes through the court. It can take 6 to 24 months to even go through the court to have that done. And during that time, like, you can't be a firefighter. You know, you're still, trying to fight the court to get that, to get your record expunged. And so even Though it's expunged for this bill, it can still be used in further criminal proceedings. So they could bring it up and do something else. Some employers can still see the record, your record, and federal agencies can still see it as well. So it's not, like, perfect, but it does, kind of take it off your. Take that little bit off of your record, which feels like, if I go into the circle, thinking about it is like, if you take this risk with your life, your reward is that we.
>> Farz: Can get a second shot at life. That's what you get. You get, like, literally, like, a second shot at life.
>> Taylor: But you. But it's a. But it's a huge risk. Like, you could die.
>> Farz: Yeah, but that's where free will comes into play. I know, but I don't get why you think this is so bad. Like, they get paid a lot more and they choose to do it. But in, like, Like, if you use. If you extrapolate your logic to its conclusion, then why aren't you upset that this is an offer to sex offenders or pedophiles or, you know, I mean, like, then if we're. If we should be magnimonious to folks that are incarcerated, then where's your judgment? Draw the line and the boundaries on what is redeemable and what's not redeemable and what you should do to be redeemed or not be redeemed.
>> Taylor: Yeah, I don't know. I don't have a list of things that people have done that I think are, like, good or bad. And that's, like, that's not my job. I just feel like it's. You still have to do. Go through all this work, and you're not gonna become a firefighter, most likely, because the actual numbers are very, very, very, very low. So you're doing this, like, really insane risk for this reward. And, like, maybe that's worth it for them and all of that, but I feel like it would make more sense considering the fact that we need more firefighters. So, like, that is a good thing. We need more trained firefighters. We need more people out there doing these things. They can work in national parks. They can do all these things, but, like, they need to be supported afterwards, and they're not being supported afterwards.
>> Farz: So that feels like a, lot. That feels like a rational gap in the system that somebody should try to fill in some way, which is. Yeah, you know, who was saying, honestly was. Probably Ezra client or the Pod Save guys, but somebody was talking about how, like, you cannot be a firefighter in San Francisco, living in San Francisco, it's just like, economically impossible unless you have family money, you married, rich, something like that. But all around California, there's like these inner parts of the city or undesirable parts of the city. Like, somebody could build, like, little parks for folks who are former prisoners and trying to rebuild it in their lives. Like, they won't be able to get a job making $150,000 as a, firefighter, but they can get one doing, like 50, 60, 70 grand as a firefighter. And like, you have these little multi tiered firefighting stations throughout the state. That could be. That could be an interesting concept.
>> Taylor: Yeah, that's. It's a really good idea. Because the problem is when you get out from this, like, if you live, none of them have died, but it still just seems so dangerous. Like, so far, I think hopefully no one, no one dies like when the firemen die. But they're like, the EMT course can cost up to $5,000. Firefighting academies can cost up to $12,000. So they have to get out of prison, go through all this legal stuff. So pay for all of, like, the lawyer to get everything off, whatever, off their record. And they have to get certified for all these things. They, need to be they. To buy equipment, pay for uniforms. and it's hard sometimes to get, you know, financial aid for these things because of their records. And in any case. And there's not a lot of programs that provide financial assistance specifically for this, which I think is what you're saying, which I think would make me feel better about this, as if that was like, a thing that they could get when they get out, you know.
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: You know, if they could, like, and, and you know, once they get there, they're like, you know, you get out, you're like, oh, but I don't. I don't know any actual firefighters. You know, like, they do try to try to help, but, you can, like, but you have to feed your family. You don't have the time to, like, invest two years and studying to be a firefighter. You know, you're like back in the real world for the first time in however long. so there's not a lot of, like, mentorship programs or support. But yeah, I think that there's like, opportunities in places like middle of California where you could, like, you know, jump in, in there where they need. Where they need more people. so there are organizations like the, Ventura Training center, and then, which is partnerships between the CDCR and Cal Fire and the Anti Recidivism Coalition. so they're trying to stop some of the barriers. So like, if you are doing this, which is very dangerous and like, yeah, it's probably like the. Maybe an exciting and good prison job if you have to have a prison job. But like, it just still feels so dangerous to me.
California pays $130,000 per year per incarcerated person
And so much like you're trading the, like you're just making. You're making. It's a weird decision to me and I can't. And I go back and forth. But, I did. And also it's not never. So there are stories on the CDCR website of people, one, two guys, one name. Dayton Harris and Marilla Ramey. They work in exactly like you said, in like a small town fire department. And they're doing great. So like that can happen. I also wrote. So I feel like that by this point we would have yelled a lot.
>> Farz: Me, m and you.
>> Taylor: Yeah, like, we're not yelling, but we're like trying to figure this out. So like, these are my final thoughts that I wrote down that I think. I think we got to. So, like, this could be a path to an actual career. You know, like, it could be and it should be if that's something that people want with more funds to pay for fire school. And there should be. They should be paid minimum wage and the minimum. Even though like they're still part of the, you know, the the prison system. if it saved $100 million, but if we were able to like take some of that money, put it towards education people after they get out or more than that, then they. We could have more firefighters and we could have people really doing things like, you know, not reoffending, that sort of thing. And I understand also that like. And this is where I wrote that California pays $130,000 per year per incarcerated person. That must be wildly complicated. I don't know what that means.
>> Farz: You know, it's got to go into like the salaries of every.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: Corrections officer, the warden, taxes for the property. They probably don't pay taxes, but it's got to be a super complicated.
>> Taylor: Super complicated.
Taylor: Anti Recidivism Coalition has less than 10% recidivism rate
So what are the supporters of the yes on six campaign? Just like the taking slavery out of our out of California. is the Anti Recidivism Coalition. They in Recidivism is a relapse into criminal behavior. And what their goal is is the membership. The people who are involved in the anti Recidivism Coalition. experience a three year recidivism rate of less than 10% compared to statewide of 60%. So statewide 60% of prisoners reoffend after three years. The people who are involved in this organization, it's less than 10%. So it seems really good they're getting people like back on track and getting jobs. I also put them through the charity navigator and the charity score of the anti reciprocatism coalition is 95%. which means it gets four stars and you can give with confidence. So I did donate money to them as well.
>> Farz: but for context, like the, the firefighters, the anti slavery legislation doesn't apply to them.
>> Taylor: No, it applies to other things, but I think it's all, but it's all connected.
>> Farz: Okay.
>> Taylor: The idea that you can pay someone in prison at all is, I feel like that's like paying them at all is good. Since 13th amendment says you don't have to. Right, right, right. But you're paying them a little, which is like, how are they saving up to leave this? And like, you know that $130,000, that is like obviously like one of the top states. Who pays that much money. Like how much of that is going into rehabilitation for folks who can be rehabilitated? You know, like, obviously we're not putting like an arsonist on this job, but maybe they can.
>> Farz: That would, I don't know, that would make for really good comedy. It's interesting. You brought up like, you were like, well I. They're getting 10 to $20 a day and that seems really low to me. And I looked up what firefighters get paid and I was like, I wouldn't do the job for what the firefighters are getting paid. Like, no, like we're just not wired that way, Taylor. Like if I was like, if I was a risk taking 25 year old, the motorcycle writing, tatted up, cigarette smoking dude in California who was locked up for eight years for armed robbery. But yeah, throw me in m the fire. Like that sounds fun. That sounds better than sitting in a cage all day. Like, but like wired like these people.
>> Taylor: No, I know we're not. I know we're not. And yeah, I feel like that that's, it's an interesting circle to think through. Like it's a good, it's a good job being paid more than other prisoners. And they're helping people. They really are out there helping people. I mean, very brave. And like the people at the, the incarcerated firefighters that I've seen interviewed, they are like, we're excited to be able to do this and learn something, but I feel like the risk is so high and that's what makes me nervous. Like, it's like the risk should be. The risk to reward ratio is something I can't wrap my head around.
Judge who sentenced kids for cash scandal was using them for for profit labor
>> Farz: I guess I'm going to tell you something to, that's going to absolutely make you nuts and probably make you really mad at me. but this came up also on Pod Save. So my, my sources on this are clean and without repute. apparently when Biden passed all of his pardons, one of the people he pardoned was this judge who was charged for this kids for cash scandal which was sending kids like the highest sentence he could possibly impose to for profit prisons to be used as slave labor.
>> Taylor: Mm I, I believe that. Yeah. Like that is, I don't, I don't know the details about the pardon. Like I didn't hear that. But like people are doing that.
>> Farz: The Pod Save guys were like, look, I mean even they were kind of. Besides, this was like what probably happened is they got like a huge list and they just like pardon the list and didn't look at the individuals on the list.
>> Taylor: And I was maybe there was like a deal like, you know, pardon this guy and like won't fight you partying these guys or whatever. But yeah, no, that's gross. And that happens. And like, so like, I think that's what, that's why we need the law to reflect that. Like you can't have that, you know, like if you want to pay them, I guess, you know, low wages, that's part of it. But like, they can't just do it. They can't just be doing like that slave labor. Labor for making things for private companies, you know. And I'm sure there's a ton of deals like that happening. You know, they're like, oh, you know, we need more skilled labor here, so. Or whatever. We just need more hands. So you give people longer sentences and then they are working for free, which is. I was just, I was just really. I was overwhelmed by the word conservation camp. And I was like trying to understand like who these people are and what's going to happen to them, you know?
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: Let alone the ptsd being a firefighter up there right now, you know.
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: Like, I think that the rehabilitation and like getting people to do good and learn things in, in the prison system is super important. But that's like obviously not the number one thing that they're working on in persons. I don't know. I'm not gonna send my life worrying about it, you know, but like, I'm interested in it.
>> Farz: I'm very interested in it because I. I find that the prison industrial complex, like. Yeah, there's something about America's ingenuity around capitalism being embedded in the fibers of every little thing that is always worth exploring a little bit further. You know? that's why. You know, that's why I reached my decision to my own conclusions on the whole for profit labor versus for state labor thing. I was like, okay, well, that's a distinction. I draw my mind where I'm like, yeah, I like that. Totally reasonable. I think, like, totally fair. Totally reasonable. but, yeah, I'm not gonna spend a whole life dwelling on this. I'm glad somebody is. But I'm not gonna lose sleep over it.
>> Taylor: I have lost a lot of sleep over it because I fell asleep about the whole thing, you know? Yeah. And, like, who is helping other people and who is spending their time blaming other people? And then, like, in the meantime, there's so many people who don't have anything, you know, so it's just, like, overwhelming. Yeah.
>> Farz: I mean, yeah, that could have literally been us for, like, seven years.
>> Taylor: Like, it's so. It's. It's so scary and weird.
>> Taylor: Oh, it looks like conservation camps were started during the New Deal.
>> Farz: Oh, they must have.
>> Taylor: Eleanor was a vault at one, because that makes sense. I don't know. I'm glad. I'm glad I'm not a budget person either. That just seems, like, so stressful.
>> Farz: sweet. Well, thank you for sharing Any.
Taylor: It's complicated because the most immediate thing is putting fires out
Any other thoughts on this one?
>> Taylor: I don't know. Probably have a lot more in, like, an hour.
>> Farz: Yeah, I. I think I thought of this as I was reading about the. The fight or listen to news about the fires, and I thought about the prisoners doing it, and then I was like, I scratched that, like, a little one layer deeper. I was like, wait a minute. Like, there's, like, prisoners doing everything and. Yeah, going a layer deeper and going a little. And. Yeah, yeah, it can, You know, I'm sure people, If you have opinions on this. Right. And dunefeldpotgmail.com, let us know what you think. I think we're gonna get a wide range of opinions on this, and they're all valid because who knows?
>> Taylor: Absolutely. Yeah. I mean, I feel like. Yeah, it's very. It's. It's complicated because the most immediate thing is for you to put the fires out, you know?
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: And then. And then worry about, like, the next thing and the next thing, and, like, worry about how to be prepared for the next Fire. And, and in the meantime have a system that is like working for people. You know, also let's have like a.
>> Farz: Legitimate conversation about like what parts of the US aren't reasonably habitable anymore. Like if we have to rebuild Louisiana, in parts of Florida, in parts of California every two years, like, what is that? Like we just like give away like 90% of the GDP every two years so that. Yeah, you know, 20% of the country is happy with the beach house. Like, it's crazy. Like, I don't know, there's gotta be like some collective action around this of like, hey, like, okay, like climate change is happening. This is real, it's happening. It's going to get progressively worse.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: What do we do now?
>> Taylor: I don't think, I think that is, that's wishful thinking and not just like rich people wanting a beach house. I mean just like people wanting to like rebuild. And I don't think that there's going to be like huge until you can't live there anymore. I know the outcome's going to be terrible.
>> Farz: Well, no, the outcome is gonna be what it is, which is ensures leaving and leaving people bankrupt. Then all of a sudden those same people fall. Like then they end up in the conditions that result in them becoming involuntary firefighters. Like, you know, like it's, you're, it's a, self fulfilling cycle in some ways. I don't know. I don't know.
>> Taylor: Yeah, I mean it's not gonna be good.
>> Farz: Yeah. Anyways, sign off.
>> Taylor: Things are.
>> Farz: Yeah, yeah, no kidding. That's a great sign off. Everything sucks.
>> Taylor: Everything sucks. Things are going to get worse. I'm gonna put just some, just as a sign off, I'm gonna put some places to donate at the top of our show notes, to folks who have literally lost everything. It's really, really wild.
>> Farz: and yeah, well, thank you for sharing, Taylor, and thank you for digging up those resources and using tools like guidestar, to help guide folks. and per usual, find us on Those socials@ doomdaflpodmail.com Write to us at doomdeflpot Gmail and we will join y'all in a, few days.
>> Taylor: Cool, thank you.