Welp. Farz likes to jostle our nerves, and today is no exception! We're going to talk about a mid-air collision - not the most recent one, but the one that happened in 2002. A DHL plane and a smaller jet collided mid-air; the smaller jet was full of Russian Children on a trip to the beach (and to make it worse, they missed their first fight; this was a second chartered one). Next comes a story of justice and revenge. Father and husband to two of the victims, Russian citizen Vitaly Kaloyev made it his mission to punish the air traffic controller he deemed responsible. You can also see this story in a little-known Arnold Schwarzenegger movie, "Aftermath." Sit back, relax, and enjoy this episode!
Photos from wikipedia and - https://plane-crashes.fandom.com/wiki/2002_%C3%9Cberlingen_mid-air_collision
Welp. Farz likes to jostle our nerves, and today is no exception! We're going to talk about a mid-air collision - not the most recent one, but the one that happened in 2002. A DHL plane and a smaller jet collided mid-air; the smaller jet was full of Russian Children on a trip to the beach (and to make it worse, they missed their first fight; this was a second chartered one).
Next comes a story of justice and revenge. Father and husband to two of the victims, Russian citizen Vitaly Kaloyev made it his mission to punish the air traffic controller he deemed responsible. You can also see this story in a little-known Arnold Schwarzenegger movie, "Aftermath."
Sit back, relax, and enjoy this episode!
Hi Friends! Our transcripts aren't perfect, but I wanted to make sure you had something - if you'd like an edited transcript, I'd be happy to prioritize one for you - please email doomedtofailpod@gmail.com - Thanks! - Taylor
Taylor: I apologize for recording late. I just have to time this around
>> Taylor: In the matter of the people of State of California vs. Orienthal James Simpson, case number BA097. And so, my fellow Americans, ask not.
>> Farz: What your country can do for you. And boom. we are recording. Taylor, Hi. How are you?
>> Taylor: Good, how are you?
>> Farz: Do you see how I'm in a good mood because it's, like, relatively early?
>> Taylor: That was very kind of you to be like, I'm happy to do it late, but I'll be grumpy. And I was like, well, I can do it earlier. I just. I just have to time this around. I have to do a Girl Scout cookie pickup because we've almost sold all the thin mints we have in our possession. So we need to get more. Got to get more between 5 and 7, so that's my only thing.
>> Farz: I was actually going to text you. I deleted the text I was going to send you. What I was going to send was like, hey, I'm fine, like, recording whenever, because I don't have to navigate a bunch of, like, kid schedules. But I was like, does that sound kind of, like, bitchy if I say that? And I was like, maybe I shouldn't say that. That sounds rude.
>> Taylor: No, that's fine. I'm.
Doomed to Fail is the podcast that brings you history's most notorious failures
Well, let me introduce us. Then we tell you why. Because I have a family. welcome to Doomed to Fail, where the podcast that brings you history's most notorious disasters, epic failures and interesting stories twice a week. And I'm Taylor, joined by Fars.
>> Farz: I'm Fars. No, I didn't mean, like. Like, I intended in a wrong, bad way. I meant more like, is she gonna hear that and be like, oh, is he flexing? Because he, like, has free time and I had less of it.
>> Taylor: Like, I hear you. I remember when I had free time and I was like, I'm busy. Like, give me a break. Person with no children. busy? What? Going to brunch. But not that my family doesn't let me sleep in, because they do. No. But yesterday I did softball tryouts all morning, which was fun. And then I came home, and then we did Girl Scout cookies. And, like, I live on the top of a really steep hill, so I, like, dragged freaking wagon and girls got cookies for a while, and my legs hurt.
>> Farz: Oh, wow. Yeah, A little workout.
>> Taylor: And then I did. I did. It was definitely the most active I've done in a long time because I was doing sports.
>> Farz: Sweet. Cool.
Tell me a terrible story about flying. Tell me. Am I kicking us off with the tail
So should we go ahead and kick off a fun, intriguing, enticing, enthralling tale?
>> Taylor: Yes.
>> Farz: Am I kicking us off with the tail?
>> Taylor: Yes.
>> Farz: I will kick the tail. okay, Sue. we do like to keep the story evergreen, but I will say I was inspired. Sounds bad to say the accident that happened over the Potomac this past week is, like, the reason why I did this story.
>> Taylor: Oh, my God. I am really inching towards not being able to fly again. And I only laugh because there's nothing else I can do.
>> Farz: I'm literally flying into Reagan and to Reagan.
>> Taylor: I know. But also, I was thinking that if you died, we'd get a ton of downloads.
>> Farz: You would do so good. If I died, you will crush. I'm gonna be so proud of you.
>> Taylor: Oh, my God. Thank you. I probably would stop recording and do something on my own, but I would leave this in the archives for people to revisit to remember you. I'm crying. That's all right.
>> Farz: Hopefully I'll make m. I'll make it. Okay. Fingers crossed.
>> Taylor: M. You will. You will. But Christ. Tell me. Tell me a terrible. A terrible story about flying.
We're going to talk about a mid air collision that occurred in 2002
>> Farz: Okay, so that. So that's what we're going to do. We're going to talk about a mid air collision that occurred, in 2002. That was. It was like multiple tragedies in one. And there was like a weird reasoning behind why it happened. And there's a big thing that changed as a result of this happening. That was great. That we're all really happy for.
>> Taylor: You know what I always think of. Do you remember in Fight Club when there's a mid air collision? Yes, that's what I think of all the time when I'm on a plane. It's super healthy.
>> Farz: Yeah. I actually sometimes have watched plane crash, like Mayday, like air disaster shows while I'm on a plane and was like, given what I look like, I probably need to stop doing that. And so I haven't done that in a few years.
>> Taylor: But that's fair. That's fair.
Wes: The Uberlingen midair collision happened in 2002
>> Farz: so we're gonna be discussing a thing called the Uberlingen midair collision. Very, very German. so like I said, this is interesting because it's a case where people kind of like, did what they were supposed to do. Like nobody was like, messing up entirely. And then a horrible, horrible tragedy hits, but then another tragedy hits, like years after. That's related to this. That was like, unexpected and like, very true crimey. We're going to talk about the. We're going to talk about the accident, why it happened, how it happened, and the after effects. So several things we're going to go over here. First things first, I need you to Focus on is there's two planes involved. We're going to talk about them as plane one and plane two. Okay, so plane one is a commercial jet. It's carrying passengers. It has 60 passengers, nine crew. And this was. Say again?
>> Taylor: it feels like a lot of crew. Keep going.
>> Farz: Yeah. Well, this is. I mean, so the plane itself is what's called a tupel of. It's like a Russian plane. And so I think this is one of those ones that has, like, a flight engineer and then like a whatever, like people like, working behind you. It's, basically the equivalent of, like, their version of a 737. This, flight, unfortunately, was privately chartered to carry 46 children in their chaperones on a trip to Spain from Moscow. Not good. Not a good start. Then we have Plane 2, which is a freight plane that is operated by DHL. That's a Boeing 757, and that's going from Italy to Brussels to Belgium. Sorry, Belgium. It's going from Italy to Belgium.
>> Taylor: Okay. And that's not very far.
>> Farz: Not very far. this plane only contains two people, the pilot and the co pilot. That's it. Oh, so we have plane one. Pastures. Tons of kids, tons of parents. Plane two. Two guys flying to the HL plane. Got it. Okay, here's the visualization part. So plane one is going from Moscow, and it's flying mostly east, but somewhat south to get down to sunny Spain. Got it. West, East. Sorry, sorry. Wes. Yeah, sorry.
>> Taylor: I'm envisioning the world map for you. I think Moscow's here. I think Spain is here.
>> Farz: Yes, yes. It's going west. I'm gonna update that. My outline later when we're done. Tiny little detail that's entirely consequential given location is the most important part of the story.
>> Taylor: Could have been all the way around. I don't know.
>> Farz: And then, like you said, Plane two, it's pretty close. It's going from Italy to Belgium. It is flying mostly north.
>> Taylor: Okay.
>> Farz: there is a lot of international boundaries that crisscross the intersect around here. So you have Italy, Switzerland, Germany, France, Belgium. I think Austria kind of makes an appearance in the mix there as well. So there's a lot kind of happening, a lot going on. and what we're going to focus on is an air traffic control station that is in charge of this fight in particular, that is based out of Zurich, Switzerland. So that's the location.
>> Taylor: Okay.
>> Farz: This air traffic control station manages southern German and Swiss air traffic. And so on this night, which is July 1st of 2002, there are two air traffic controllers that are managing the traffic, and they're doing so on, individual monitors containing their radar systems about several feet away from each other. This is all important, it's all relevant.
Taylor: One ATC controller had four planes contacting him simultaneously
>> Taylor: Okay.
>> Farz: At some point this night, one of the, ATC controllers decided to go for an extended break. And, that wasn't a part of company policy, but it was common operating practice. Like, managers know that people do this. They would, some guy would just leave and go do his own thing for hours and come back and return to duty. around the same time this was happening, maintenance workers enter the station to inform the one working controller that they had to do maintenance work on the radar. And so the monitor that he was observing, we're going to be updating very, very slowly at this point. So at, this point, I might as well tell you his name because we're going to actually get into him quite a bit. His name is Peter Nielsen. Okay.
>> Taylor: Okay.
>> Farz: So at this point, Peter is managing plane one, the pass drum plane. He is also aware of plane two, the freight plane. We're both flying at 32,000ft and on an intersecting path, which he does not realize at this time. And I'll explain why here in a minute. There's also another factor which is he'd actually ordered plane one to fly 26,000ft. They had requested to ascend the 32,000ft. And so I think maybe you just confused, like, are they 26, 30, whatever. He just confused him. Essentially. he had been assigned a new plane of track which he tries to radio contact, try to maintain radio contact with, but fails. He keeps trying. He can't do it, but he's on a different station when he's doing this. He's going back and forth between his monitor and his buddy's monitor that he's covering and looking at the plane one, then going back and going plane two, then looking at this other plane that he has to monitor. At one point in particular, he was basically had four planes contacting him simultaneously. He was just like, couldn't handle. It was sensory overload. One thing the radar systems have built into them is a collision avoidance alert system where if it detects a potential collision, it'll take priority in alerting air traffic control about the imminent collision. So this is like a warning warning. Like, everything's going off my car does that? Yeah. Really?
>> Taylor: Yeah. Like if I, like, get too close to something. Because one time we're at the airport and everyone started yelling because I thought I was getting too Close to hitting a a light pole. And then I like went a little further just to piss everybody off. And then my car broke on its own. Like the brake went down by itself and it beeped like crazy because I was about to hit the ball.
>> Farz: Oh, my car is not that fancy.
>> Taylor: I didn't hit it. But that, that is what it did.
>> Farz: So I did have a car that did that once, Taylor, and it scared the shit out of me. I actually thought I like broke some. I thought the transmission broke. It went so hard on the brakes.
>> Taylor: We had, we rented a minivan in Puerto Rico when we were there and my father in law had loved riding his bike. So he had his bike on like a bike rack on the back of it. But then whenever we backed up it thought to that something was there because a bike was there. And it was like the loudest, most annoying sound in the whole entire world. It was so annoying.
>> Farz: So it's basically that, Imagine it's that except it's, the entire thing is kind of lit up. That's what is supposed to happen when this, this type of a, situation arises. But in this case on Peter's system it didn't happen because things were down at the moment. It was all under maintenance. Like that's the name of the game here apparently. Apparently. But what happened was there was another station that this did happen on because they can see each other's planes. Like it's just radar, it's going to pick up whatever it's going to pick up. And on that station it started sounding an alarm in Germany. And then that guy called the Zurich station to alert him, but the phone wasn't working or was occupied at the time. And Peter didn't get the message. and also I learned that apparently he could have in theory called the pilots to tell them they're on a collision course. But he didn't because that was against ATC rules. Like you're not supposed to interfere if you're not the ATC controlled in charge.
>> Taylor: Even if it's an emergency.
>> Farz: Yes.
>> Taylor: Weird.
>> Farz: Yeah. so plane one and two are on a collision course when a nifty, ah, little in plane feature switched on called tcast, which is an acronym that stands for Traffic Collision Avoidance System. So these are little transponders that are installed in planes and basically they're constantly sending out a message into the open air waiting to hit another plane with a transponder that is basically saying, hey, give me your altitude. Give me your direction of travel. Let's figure out if we're on the same flight path or not. and if the two transponders identify that there's a potential for collision amongst them, they issue to the pilot what is called an RA or a Resolution Advisory, and the other plane gets the opposite ra. So, for example, one plane gets, ascend, the other one gets descend. You know, like that kind of a thing.
>> Taylor: Right, because you're like, there's that extra dimension.
>> Farz: Exactly, yes.
>> Taylor: Flying cars were never going to happen.
>> Farz: That was the stupidest thing we ever thought we were going to achieve as a, That and the segue. The fact that we thought Segways were going to be a thing or flying cars are going to be a thing, shame on us.
>> Taylor: Segways are fun, but they're not a transportation.
>> Farz: They're not a necessity in life.
>> Taylor: No.
>> Farz: And nothing will make you look more dorky.
>> Taylor: I went on.
I'm sure it's fun. I went on one Segway tour, uh, of Chicago
I just. I went on one Segway tour, of Chicago with my Aunt Luann, and it was so fun.
>> Farz: I'm sure it's fun. I'm sure it's fun. I only think of Paul, Paul Blart.
>> Taylor: Fair M. I think of in Arrested Development, when Job is. And then he's like. And they're trying to rush, and he's like, this is really for one person, because him and Michael are both on it, and they can't go very fast. That makes. That's what I think of.
>> Farz: I, need to restart watching that show again.
Two commercial planes collide with each other with seconds left before impact
so in this case, on, plane one, the TCAST told its pilot to climb in altitude, and in the TCAs in plane two told them to descend in altitude. The problem here is that Peter, once he realized what was about to happen, he contacted plane one, the commercial plane, the passenger plane, and told them to descend and fly under plane two. With basically seconds left before colliding. Plane one finally sees Plane two, and then he starts listening to his tcast. So basically, one of plane one was told by his TCAS to ascend, while the other one is told to descent. Then the ATC operator tells them both, tells one of them to descend, and the other one was already descending because their TCAs was telling them to descend.
>> Taylor: So they would get those from different people.
>> Farz: No. So the TCAS is automated. So in any situation where TCAST is alerting by another tcas, they will always give the opposite advisory. One go up, one go down.
>> Taylor: Right.
>> Farz: So in this case, that's what happened. But the controller contacted the plane because he didn't know the TCAS was engaged.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: So he just contacted One, he just rolled the dice and contacted one, told them to just descend. He's like, whatever, just go down. You'll avoid it.
>> Taylor: Because, like, whenever you hear about these or like a near miss midair collision, you're like, oh, they were a mile apart in the air. And I'm like, a mile's pretty far. But when you're going, like, I don't know how fast planes go, but you're going that fast. A mile is not very far.
>> Farz: No, it's not far at all. No. They were, There was like a slight difference in, like, how they clipped each other, but it's assumed that the combined speed of impact was 800 miles per hour. So imagine if you're going 800 miles per hour, like, you're probably going to see much.
>> Taylor: No.
>> Farz: So, what ended up happening, it was that the DHL plane, the plane to the rear vertical stabilizer, you know, the part of the back of the plane that like, stands straight up in the air. So that sliced straight through the center of plane two's cabin like a, Like a knife going straight through it.
>> Taylor: from below or from below?
>> Farz: From below. And so that was split in half that the. The pasture plane was split in half. And so people. I mean, what. I don't have to paint you a picture, you know what happened. I would actually argue that what happened to the two captains was probably a worst experience because all they had missing was a rear vertical stabilizer. So the rest of the cabin, the cockpit, the plane was still intact. It just couldn't fly straight in the direction the nose was pointing. It was just like. It was just. Without the stabilizer, it can't just go normal. It. And so what happened was that thing kept flying for a couple more minutes and just started breaking up in the air from, like, being aimed the wrong direction in the wind, basically. And so they were alive until they hit the ground, which is like, that's gotta be crazy.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: So Peter, meanwhile, he has no idea what has happened. He gave his directive to plane one to descend, and then he went to check the other monitor. That's why I said, like, they're a few feet away. So he wasn't actually looking at what was going on in the real. In real time. Also, he wouldn't have seen it in real time because the radar system was down and delayed. Eventually, he would go back and check the other monitor and he realized that he lost signal to both planes when he shouldn't have. And he, he realized what had happened.
>> Taylor: Right.
>> Farz: so both planes. So Here you have two planes that were both in perfect working order. They were in completely open skies, they collided. And so obviously you have this person to blame. And I think this guy Peter blamed himself more as much as anybody else. I did watch some videos of other ATC controllers talking about, like, if you're the one on duty when planes collide, like, you basically just like, die inside. It's supposed to be a really horrible experience, which I could probably. Right. and so, yeah, Peter in this case, he was a wreck right after this happened. He needed medical attention right away. And, and technically it was his fault, sort of. But also I think that his company kind of screwed him in the way that they kind of, staged, maintenance procedures and also didn't keep tabs on people's work schedules and stuff. eventually several executives at his company, it's called Sky Guy, that's the ATC operator, they would be convicted of manslaughter. Peter himself was actually not charged with anything since it was determined to be an accident. But that doesn't mean Peter lived a long and happy life. So.
>> Taylor: Yeah, I feel like you wouldn't. We've seen Breaking Bad also.
>> Farz: This is probably worse than Breaking Bad.
Vitaly Taylor was killed in a plane crash in 2002
Okay, so here we turn to the other tragedy in this story by focusing on a guy named Vitaly. Kaloya. Kaluyo. Kaloyo. Yeah, Kalo.
>> Taylor: Yev, whatever. Whatever you just said, that was perfect. That's actually exactly how it's pronounced.
>> Farz: Vitaly Taylor. It's called Vitaly. We're just going to go with Vitaly.
>> Taylor: Perfection.
>> Farz: so in. At the time of this accident in 2002, Vitali would have been 46 years old. He had a wife named Svetlana and two children. A 10 year old boy named Constantine and a 4 year old little, girl named Diana. And they were pastors on the plane that was in the accident. He was obviously very distraught over what happened. But I think there's two ways that people would tend to go when they become distraught. There's like the complete loss of hope version of distraught. Like the depression that you just lose your. The light in your eye kind of distraught. Then there's like the Crow version and I think this guy went the Crow version. There's like the Crow slash Bruce Wayne version.
>> Taylor: Never seen the Crow. I know.
>> Farz: That is absolutely shocking. I thought you based most of your aesthetics when we were like in LA off the Crow.
>> Taylor: Interesting. I'm going to watch it and see how I feel about that. It's a note.
>> Farz: yeah, you got to watch it.
Vitaly was arrested after the plane crashed in Switzerland in 2004
so Vitaly quits his job after this accident. He was working as an architect, and he joined the search for bodies, and he actually is the one who found the body of his daughter himself. Which is, like, bad. That is horrible.
>> Taylor: I mean, oh, my God.
>> Farz: M. Look like a cherub. She felt 36,000ft.
>> Taylor: Where was the stuff? What's it called? Like, the wreckage in Switzerland.
>> Farz: It landed in Switzerland. Yeah.
>> Taylor: Okay.
>> Farz: he also found a pearl necklace that he gave her, like, in the middle of, like, this guy sounds like he dedicated his life to this. This accident. He actually spent, a ton of his time at the grave site. And if he wasn't in the grave site, he was back at home, where he constructed a shrine to his family. And after about, nearly two years after the accident, he hired a private investigator to figure out where Peter lived. Then on February 24, 2004, he would go to Peter's house, and he sat in his garden. And then Peter would notice that this guy's sitting outside of his house. He'd go outside to see what was going on, and then his two kids would walk, follow him, follow behind him. Peter's two kids. And all we know is that there was, like, a shout, a scream. Peter's wife runs outside in, like, the three of them, the wife and the two kids watch Vitali stab him to death in front of their house.
>> Taylor: Wow.
>> Farz: Intense, right?
>> Taylor: That is. That is very, very intense.
>> Farz: So Vitali was arrested, obviously, in Switzerland. And at. At, Trial. He went to trial for premeditated murder. He would say, quote, I have been living in the cemetery for almost two years, sitting besides our grave. He said that his life ended the day the plane crashed and that he wanted Peter to apologize for him. When asked why he brought a knife with him, they were like. He didn't have an answer.
>> Taylor: He wanted to kill him.
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: I don't know which.
>> Farz: I buy one apology.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: He, was sentenced to a surprisingly lax eight years in prison in Switzerland, which I'm sure was delightful. I mean, a Swiss prison. Do you get chocolates on your bed pillow every morning?
>> Taylor: I was gonna say I was a little worried he was gonna go to a gulag. A gulag. Gulag. But he didn't. He went to Switzerland, which sounds nice.
>> Farz: If you ever want to.
>> Taylor: Community college.
>> Farz: Yeah. Kill him in Switzerland. Like, they have to give you chocolates, right?
>> Taylor: Oh, no, it sounds lovely. I bet you just get to, like, read a lot and go on. Nice. Go on. Nice. Like, hikes. So beautiful.
>> Farz: Champagne.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: so he actually only served three and a half years before he was released from this paradise. he'd return back home to what was obviously like, a hellish Russia. But, he returned as a hero. So he would later say that anyone who calls him a murderer would betray their motherland, betray their own children, and that what he did was to honor his children and protect their memories. He was a hardcore dude. Like, I kind of like Vitaly.
>> Taylor: I know I struggle with this one because, like, you shouldn't kill people, but also, like, I under. I can easily empathize with this man's feelings.
>> Farz: He's like. He's like that one dad who's always like, I'm gonna. I'll fucking kill you if you touch my. You know, like one of those. But he's, like, legitimately did it. Like, did it. And also, I will say that from what I heard and read, the media made Peter sound awful. Like, it was like it was all on him. Because, like, nobody's gonna blame the faceless corporation that has a maintenance window of, like, we're gonna take the phones down at the same time. We take your radar down at the same time.
>> Taylor: Yeah. You know, or, like, the system itself. Like, you can't blame, like, a robot.
>> Farz: Or once you blame the guy that was on break.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: There's plenty of other guys blame, but this guy got the worst of it.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: Vitali would eventually go on to remarry about 10 years later. He'd end up having twin boys, so, you know.
>> Taylor: Oh, that's nice.
>> Farz: Yeah. And he basically lived his life as a hero. He got, like, the highest honors a citizen can get in his city.
Peter Nielsen would go on to be portrayed by Arnold Schwarzenegger in Aftermath
Like, he was. He was like, the man in his city. He would eventually go on to be portrayed by Arnold schwarzenegger in a 2017 movie called Aftermath.
>> Taylor: What?
>> Farz: Yes. I never knew this.
>> Taylor: I feel like, why is all of this. This whole story is blocked out of my consciousness. Why. Why don't I know any?
>> Farz: It should be more famous, right?
>> Taylor: Oh, I see. Ooh. I feel like I may have seen this picture recently on my streaming services. It's on Prime Video.
>> Farz: Aftermath.
>> Taylor: All he had left was revenge. Oh, my God. I'm gonna watch this. Maybe not the first part where the trip plane gosh happens, but maybe the second part.
>> Farz: I mean, Arnold Schroessinger is kind of overkill. I mean, I assume you don't need Arnold Schwarzenegger to kill poor little Swiss Peter Nielsen. Like, oh, my God, just feed him, like, Hershey's chocolate instead of the Good Swiss stuff. And he'll probably die of disappointment.
>> Taylor: Pretty fun.
>> Farz: The story was fun. I'm glad you liked it.
>> Taylor: Well, I'm, thinking, like, the Arnold Schwarzenegger part is fun.
Taylor: Air traffic controllers retiring in batches, making flying more dangerous
The budget. Okay, this is why we didn't hear this movie. The budget for this movie was $10.5 million and only made $674,000 in the box office.
>> Farz: Is that real?
>> Taylor: The whole is in charge of advertising this film because you did a terrible job.
>> Farz: We never knew it existed. Wow, that is remarkable.
>> Taylor: Scoot McNary played this. The other guy. He does look like a Scoot McNairy. so. That's so sad.
>> Farz: Yeah. Yeah. And, like, this kind of stuff, like, I mean, it's pretty rare, but it probably should be more rare that planes kind of fly into each other. You know, Taylor, we talked about this forever ago, and then we brought this up before, and, like, I'm going off like an old memory, and I know you have a pilot for the listens to us, so I'd love to hear their perspective on this, please. I mean, don't listen to the whole episode, but, like, just write in about this point. It was something about how when the air traffic controllers striked in the 1980s, Reagan, fired everyone. And then they rehired a whole new batch of them. And then, like, now the reason why flying is, like, getting more dangerous progressively is that they're all retiring in batches again.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: And in the traffic volume between when they had to do this the first time versus now is like 50x more. So it's way more challenging.
>> Taylor: It's a different job, you know?
>> Farz: Yeah, yeah.
>> Taylor: Yeah, I think it's not paid well enough to attract a lot of people. Right. Like, if it was something that was, like, a coveted job, but it also feels like a job that has so much I don't know.
>> Farz: So they're not TSA agents. Like, I mean, they gotta be a little better than that. Right?
>> Taylor: but, I mean. Well, I don't know why there aren't more of them then, you know?
>> Farz: I mean, because you could end up being stabbed by the father of the kids that died because you messed up for a split second. Do you know how many times.
>> Taylor: Yeah, I mean, that's what I'm saying. It has a lot of responsibility. It says, okay, the median wage. It's a great. It's a good job. Median wage is 1, 137,000. That's great. but then I'm also seeing air traffic controller on ZipRecruiter for $15 an hour. I feel like that's not.
>> Farz: I mean, that doesn't sound unusual because, I mean, there's a lot of, like, small air airports that are, like, just. People will fly in their private planes, like, low stakes. So, but if you are flying, rest assured that now it is, mandated.
>> Taylor: What do they do to fix this?
>> Farz: It is mandated that under any circumstance, you can only listen to TCAs. So if an air traffic controller tells you to do something different, ignore. Listen to TCAs. So we had that going for us.
>> Taylor: I think that makes sense.
>> Farz: Oh, except in a situation where. Where the other plane doesn't comply, TCast won't pick it up. That the other plane isn't complying and will continue giving the same order.
>> Taylor: So what do you do?
>> Farz: Hold on, hold on. That's all you gotta do. Yeah. Or in this case, I mean, look at the case of the situation that happened last week. Like, that was a helicopter. There was no. I assume there was no. I mean, it's a military helicopter. I assume there's no TCAS system.
>> Taylor: Right. Again, shouldn't have that. I don't know. I don't know what that's about.
>> Farz: Anyways, that is my story. hope you all enjoyed it. And if you are a pilot or know about planes or about flying or have opinions, write in. We'd love to hear them. Oh, I do feel. Pod gmail.com on the socials@dflpod.
>> Taylor: We are. I'm busy being nervous, but we are indeed at those places.
>> Farz: Indeed. and if I'm not, on an episode in a month from now, I want y'all to do a little memorial. I need to edit this out.
Our listenership is growing consistently, and thank you for telling your friends
>> Taylor: We will. Don't worry. I'll get some of your friends together. We'll talk about you.
>> Farz: You know, it's just you and, like, two people sitting in a corner and sitting on a zoom.
>> Taylor: Me, Jay and Rachel. And I'll be like, people I know.
>> Farz: This is it.
>> Taylor: yeah, no, scary. I don't know, I don't know what's going on. It doesn't seem great. I feel very sad for everybody who has died in the past couple days in plane crashes. There also was not, like, the other one cracked.
>> Farz: Did you see the video of that?
>> Taylor: I did.
>> Farz: It looks like a missile strike.
>> Taylor: I know. I saw a video of, like, women in a parking lot of a nearby store screaming. And I was like, oh, my God. I would be like, this is it. The world's over. They're coming for us. They. I mean, who who the fuck knows who's bombing us these days? Aliens, I don't know, the Russians, our own government. Who knows? It'd be terrifying. Literally. I have. I have my biggest. I. I don't know if I was, like, dreams about it or. I always, like, imagine seeing a plane explode in the air.
>> Farz: You know what? You know what? I'm gonna tell you why that is. I'll tell you exactly what it is. it's because we came up on a diet of, Final Destination, and it's, like, embedded in our brain.
>> Taylor: Feel like someone's need to watch Final Destination to be less afraid of airplane crashes because horrible plan.
>> Farz: That's the worst idea I ever heard about.
>> Taylor: I know. But then I feel like I'm, like, exposure therapying myself.
>> Farz: Yeah. Me. do the. Do the, air disasters. They're, like, pretty much free on YouTube. And watch a bunch of those. You'll feel better.
>> Taylor: Okay, great. Okay, great. I'm not going to do that. Maybe not today, but I might watch Aftermath.
>> Farz: I mean, yeah, it could be good. sweet. You got anything to sign us off with?
>> Taylor: I m. Don't think so. I think I might have. I got some, like, ideas from some people on Instagram, which was great. So I will look into those. But, yeah, that's all.
>> Farz: Sweet. if that's it, thanks for listening Also, everyone. We're just talking about this before we started recording. Our listenership's growing pretty consistently. So thank you. So thank you for telling your friends. Thank you.
>> Taylor: You're doing it.
>> Farz: Yeah. Like, the. The fact that it's growing means that people are telling their friends and people are finding the show and they're telling their friends, and that's how you grow things and, you know, make it work. So thank you very much.
>> Taylor: Thank you. Super.
Awesome. Thank you, Taylor. We'll go ahead and sign off
Awesome.
>> Farz: Sweet. We'll go ahead and sign off. Thank you, Taylor.
>> Taylor: Thank you.