This week Farz gets into the murder of Marjorie Nugent, she seemed awful, but did Bernie Tiede need to kill her? Most people were kind of ok with it. This confusing and possibly more tragic than adorable story is portrayed in the 2011 movie Bernie by Richard Linklater, who got way too involved in the real case. Then, buckle up because Taylor 50/50 summoned a demon researching Ed and Lorraine Warren. They inspired the billion-dollar Conjuring Franchise, which Farz is on the fence about but Taylor loves despite some very confusing plot lines (looking at you, Conjuring 3). We ask the hard questions - Does the pseudo-science matter if the outcome is positive? Is Patrick Wilson the most handsome in horror? (that’s rhetorical, it’s obviously yes).
This week Farz gets into the murder of Marjorie Nugent, she seemed awful, but did Bernie Tiede need to kill her? Most people were kind of ok with it. This confusing and possibly more tragic than adorable story, is portrayed in the 2011 movie Bernie by Richard Linklater, who got way too involved in the real case.
Then, buckle up because Taylor 50/50 summoned a demon researching Ed and Lorraine Warren. They inspired the billion-dollar Conjuring Franchise, which Farz is on the fence about but Taylor loves despite some very confusing plot lines (looking at you, Conjuring 3). We ask the hard questions - Does the pseudo-science matter if the outcome is positive? Is Patrick Wilson the most handsome in horror? (that’s rhetorical, it’s obviously yes).
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Lorraine in 2013 at wondercon via the public domain
Warrens via CT post and The Times
Bermie via Amazon & Texas Monthly
Sources:
https://www.catholic.org/prayers/prayer.php?p=683
Hi Friends! Our transcripts aren't perfect, but I wanted to make sure you had something - if you'd like an edited transcript, I'd be happy to prioritize one for you - please email doomedtofailpod@gmail.com - Thanks! - Taylor
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[Music]
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this is the visual part okay Taylor's showing me a sign that
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says on air it's like an old timey it takes me back to watching The Frasier I used to like to watch Frasier does it
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look backwards to you no you screenshot it it's backwards to me it says on air
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there we go all right it's very exciting my lights on and I'm ready good good the
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light that only you can see only I can see so yeah we'll go ahead and kick things
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off um hi everyone welcome to demon to fail I'm farz joined here by Taylor hi Taylor how are you good
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like trying to figure out where to put my on-air sign not a problem I'm gonna put it on my
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door I think it needs you outside something that you can like trigger Taylor just got a lovely on air sign one
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of those old-timey ones that radio people used to have uh and it looks great it looks very professional
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like a ring light just like us we're super professional super profesh as
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always so per usual we're gonna be doing two stories one historical One True Crime around relationships that were
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doomed to fail and um we I think I go first this time yeah yes okay so why
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don't we start by you telling us what your drink is Taylor I will then segue into my drink and story great
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um today I'm drinking holy water straight from Jesus's
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breast loving nipple I don't know her whole you know blessed water
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is Holy Waters any water that a pastor yeah I remember like I used to there's a
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Catholic church and my mom had us go to a couple times when I was like a teen and there was like a water fountain and it was like this
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water fountain has been blasted like the pipe had been blessed so like went into the little fountain that had the thing so that like covered it so you don't
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have to bless like all the droplets of water individually and like the bird bath that you put the baby in
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feels cheap to do it that way I I want every vessel to be blessed as
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the water goes into it me too absolutely I'm perfectionist so you know that about me uh so yours is holy water
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um which I don't think you're supposed to drink but what do I know I can't hurt
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yeah yeah yeah yeah it's Jesus water hydrates better than regular water it's like Gatorade it's got electrolytes
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my dream today is Prickly Pear because we are going to be covering a rather
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prickly individual in today's True Crime Story and it takes place in Texas which is
2:54
not the home of prickly pear I feel like that's more of like a New Mexico or Arizona thing but you can definitely get
3:01
some good prickly pear juice in Texas as well so just like the juice of a prickly pear
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not like a prickly pear margarita you know what's funny is when I was researching this I actually looked up
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prickly pear recipes and I found the margarita one and it looked so good and I was like write it down and I got into researching the story and I forgot to
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write down the recipe for the prickly pear there's someone here in Joshua Tree that like I follow on Instagram who has a prickly pear and like a store or
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something and they made they made a prickly pear Margarita it looked really fun it looks delicious it looks incredible yeah it's a lovely color it's
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fuchsia so just so everybody knows because y'all might not know pruthly pear it's a cactus but it's a cactus it
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has that like Little Flower at the very top that's like a very very bright fuchsia color and that's the thing that you can open up and drink which like if
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you're ever in the desert you can open a prickly pear and drink that and you'll be fine well you'll
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still probably die but yeah that's mostly from the animals that are gonna mull your bones yeah so
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okay my story thank you my story today is about the relationship between a man
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named Bernie teed and Marjorie Nugent have you heard these names before I
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don't think so okay you will probably remember as I as I go into this because this is actually a pretty famous case
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Bernie was actually famously played by actor Jack Black in the 2011 film by
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Richard linklater titled Bernie do you does that ring well no damn okay
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uh I will say this if you haven't seen it you should it is a amazing movie it
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is so fun it's fun it's funny it's dark it's witty it's clever it's like it the
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Ambiance of it is just fantastic Jack Black plays a fantastic character and Shirley
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MacLean is kind of like the I don't know the the his other lead in the movie and she's obviously amazing and everything
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she does as well but the movie itself and the story that I'm going to go into both kind of Hit the tone of what we
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essentially classified as dark humor because um it is about murder but it is fun it's
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a fun murder so um it does say and this I feel like is ties to us it says the
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book is based on it's called Midnight in the Garden of East Texas yes yeah I'm gonna so it's not a book it's an article
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um and I'm gonna reference that article a lot because that was the origination point so Richard link later are you
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familiar with him the director I'm gonna say yes
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okay it was funny because the way you phrased I was like I'll say yes as long as you don't ask any follow-up questions I'm
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looking it up now I can answer now that it is that I'm on um
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Wikipedia but yeah no he's a great he's great these movies are fantastic
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um he's an Austin native this story takes place in East Texas which isn't
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terribly far from Austin and so it got a lot of press coverage in Texas monthly when it was published and that was a
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basis that article was the basis for everything we're going to discuss here including the movie so let's get into it uh so
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I'm gonna get into the story here in a minute but first I just want to set the tone of how people in the city where
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this took place felt about the individuals that we're going to be discussing again the names are Marjorie Nugent she goes by Marge and Bernie teed
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goes by Bernie so here's some Marge in the movie is that Shirley McLean Shirley McLean yeah
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your direct quotes from that article you just referenced okay one of them says quote if I made a
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list of people I knew were going to heaven Bernie would be the first on that list end quote I love it referencing
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Marge quote if she had held her nose any higher she would have drowned in a rainstorm
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this is from A city councilman named Olin joffrian who said quote
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from the day that deep freeze was opened you haven't been able to find anyone in town saying poor Mrs Nugent people here
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here are saying poor Bernie end quote spoiler Marge ends up in a deep freeze
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so that's where this quote comes from so let's get into the story itself so like I said so this is a Texas town it's
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called Carthage it's in East Texas it's very very close to Louisiana border it's a very small town it's completely flat
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you can look up Google images of it it is just like this a small type of sound it's what it it
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reminds me of the town in Napoleon Dynamite it reminds me of all the little
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cities that um that Anton sugar from no country from
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old men visited yeah it has that kind of a feel to it I see so you know it's a
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very little small tank to sound like the people there are just exactly what you would expect it's predominantly white it's lower middle class uh and that's
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generally like the personality types these people just go to church they go to church they go to local Diner they just live simple lives I'll put it that
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way what's interesting is for some reason that I couldn't totally totally hone in on
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Carthage was just full of these like rich one-off individuals where these people
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made money in oil in Texas and that would relocate to Carthage to die
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basically for some reason there's a bunch of those there that also segues in a March in her story as well but getting
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into Bernie Bernie himself was a funeral director in Carthage so he's a mortician uh I
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actually hadn't thought about this before I started researching this story but if you're in a small town and you're a funeral director it's kind of like a
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powerful position to have so it feels kind of like almost like a sheriff or a pastor because at some point nearly
8:47
every person in that town is going to have to interface with you in some way and you're going to have to solve a very
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very complicated emotionally charged situation for them and so so you kind of like
9:00
get this kind of Midas Touch of everybody in town needing to know you and liking you in large part and Bernie
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was exactly that he was beloved in Carthage like absolutely
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beloved he was a happy guy take a look at his pictures he just seems like somebody who's just
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constantly smiling like he he is out of bad days rain does not fall on him when he walks around
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that's how I see his pictures have you seen this are you looking I'm trying to find him in real life
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what's his last name in real life
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this is a silent portion of the audio medium that we're using I see oh I mean
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great casting great job everyone right he's super yeah he's just a super eligible guy uh he was a community guy
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he always was he was super involved in his church he was on on choir inquire
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whatever he's however you'd phrase that uh and he also had a habit of going like above and beyond for his clients so he
10:03
had a habit of after the services for weeks and weeks and weeks onward checking in on his clients who are
10:11
usually old widows or widowers and just making sure they're doing okay bringing
10:16
them food and things like that he's just such a nice guy you know like I don't I I'm
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trying to I I feel like I knew someone like this in high school and the party was always like ah what what are you
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hiding why are you trying to be this nice like there's nothing there's got to be something behind those those gestures
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um so the article that I referenced for the story there's two of them one of
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them you already referenced there's another another article I referenced as well that one is called the bizarre
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story of Bernie teed and the real murder case that inspired the movie Bernie by Neil patmore not a very creative title
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you could have probably cut that in half but it is what it is uh and in that article it was said that he was widely
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regarded as the nicest man in town Bernie was so that's one side of this equation this Angelic human who just
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loves to serve his community and everybody loves to be around on the other side
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you have his former client Marjorie Marge nugen who met Bernie as he took
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care of her late husband's funeral arrangements like I said earlier March's late husband
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was one of these Uber Rich dudes in the oil industry who made a ton of money Marge was actually originally from
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Carthage and so whenever they got into their Twilight years he decided hey
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let's go back to Carthage uh and settle down there they bought a huge house like
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way too big for two elderly people who can barely walk 10 feet without falling down it is estimated that his net worth
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that he bequeathed to Marge was somewhere in the range of 10 million dollars give or take yeah he did I mean
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they were like they bought a bank tailor like that's the kind of money they owned the only Bank in town that's kind of
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money these people had yeah that's money and that's power exactly influence power all of it uh so
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contrasting her reputation to Bernie's her reputation was the meanest woman in
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Carthage oh so Bernie manages Marge's husband's funeral and per usual
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starts following up with Mars this is part of his routine just making sure that she's okay what's going on and
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in doing so he noticed that she has nobody like
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you go to the house and there was just nobody it's just this woman sitting alone in this giant house
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or anything I had a kid totally estranged literally nobody liked her nobody wanted to be around her yeah that
12:51
was her that was her General life so she was basically sat along this house and Bernie who
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by all accounts is this incredibly empathetic human being just felt so bad for her and so he made a point to go out
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of his way to spend time with her he'd go over there he'd hang out he'd go out to dinner together and they started
13:10
becoming kind of a thing so they didn't go so far as to take like these International trips at this time Bernie
13:16
would have been 39 and she would have been 81 years old so she wasn't he wasn't in a relationship
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no by most accounts people assumed he's gay
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people in Carthage assumed he's gay and um and I'm actually gonna go to a quote
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that was like great it was supposed Texas quote calling someone gay you'll possibly ever hear but they would start
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going on these trips together so they were becoming kind of like a thing and the article you quoted earlier is what
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I'm going to quote here so that is called Midnight in the Garden of East Texas that's my man named skip
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Hollingsworth who did all this research he did a fantastic job he was he like basically lived in Carthage to like get
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the story out he would talk to people the town folks everything and um and and one of the diners he was at when people
14:04
brought up Bernie and the idea of him dating a woman somebody said this is a quote you can tell he's never
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been deer hunting in his life unquote like that's the way that I get it he said that they all thought he was
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gay but nobody cared no I mean everybody makes Texas out to be this like Prejudice play signal nobody gives a [ __ ] Texas is beautiful because nobody
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cares what you do you just do your own thing and nobody bothers you and nobody cared that he was they thought he was gay they were like he's gay he does what
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it is he's a nice guy it doesn't matter so at some point uh during this friendship
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relationship whatever you want to call it Bernie to his credit never said they dated but everybody was like it's weird they'll sleep in the same room and
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they're always together so who knows what's happening Bernie quit his job to basically just manage marja's business
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account uh business become a business manager basically she had all these different interests right like she had the stock portfolios and she owned a
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bank and she was all this bills had to be paid stuff had to be taken care of she eventually made Bernie the sole
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beneficiary to her will and instructed Bernie that upon her death her family was not to get a dime
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of her inheritance and the way Wills are done you can't
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manipulate someone into doing this you there there's there's got to be attestation there's got to be Witnesses
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there's questions around your competency the duress Like Bernie didn't force her to do this she just did it on a run win
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because this is the only person she had in her life this relationship with Bernie and Marge just like every other
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relationship Marge seems to have with another human turned abusive Bernie would later state that quote
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she was just so controlling she felt like she could own me and I guess to some degree she did and well you see
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this in the movie there's a great scene in the movie where there's like an armadillo or a possum in the backyard
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and she's like kill it kill it it's gonna come in the house and she uh gives
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a gun to Bernie and Bernie just can't bring himself to hurt it and she's just like bantering him and saying what a
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wussy is like that's probably the exact vibe that this woman had with him she sounds awful yeah yeah
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so yeah so three years after this Arrangement started Bernie would
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eventually shoot and kill Marge at her home in the driveway shooting her in the
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back with a gun like one of her guns at 22. and he would take her body
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and wrap it up in sheets put it at the bottom of a deep freezer freezer and then pour put food on top of
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it to make it seem like there's something going on when this event took place Bernie had full control of marja's
16:41
finances so he had um Power of Attorney not only did he get the inheritance I
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mean he wouldn't get the inheritance now anyways because at this point nobody knows she's dead so there's no will to
16:53
be executed on but she had full power of attorney so you could write checks anyways you could withdraw money you could do whatever you
16:59
wanted with her bank account so with the knowledge that she's dead and that he now has access to these millions
17:06
and millions of dollars burning starts basically just being a philanthropist it is estimated that he distributed
17:13
somewhere around two million dollars of Marge's money through various different
17:18
philanthropic Endeavors he would pay People's College tuitions he would uh
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offer scholarships to people he would buy 12 cars he needed Vehicles he would um donate to the church and like yeah
17:32
all there was one story that um yeah
17:39
I forgot what it was something it was something about I remember there was a there was a trophy store in town so this
17:46
this town this sword just made trophies and one year it was gonna shut down
17:51
because there was not that much business obviously and
17:57
the team the the girls team or something it just won some basketball or softball thing and he was like he paid the store
18:05
to stay open for the next like year so that they would have the time to make
18:10
trophies for this team she thought it was bad that the team won and they didn't get a trouble he was just he just
18:16
died really you're just such a sweet thoughtful guy there was definitely a trophy store in my town growing up yeah
18:22
yeah I mean I don't recall having one but I never won a trophy so it doesn't matter um
18:27
so all the while while this is going on he's telling people that Marge was either sick or that she was out of town
18:34
on a trip or doing something for nine months and for the most part nobody
18:41
cared yeah yeah because on the one hand y's awesome he was awesome anyways now
18:48
he's awesome because he's awesome just giving everybody money second March sucks so who cares if she's not around
18:53
nobody cared celebrity wins basically
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so it is worth noting that amidst all this stuff that's going on there's also
19:03
like weird litigation happening amongst Mars and her family because
19:09
the husband divested everybody but Marge of his inheritance March is making
19:15
claims and has in fact invested everybody of the rest of that inheritance and so all these people are
19:21
jockeying to understand it's kind of like when Anna Nicole Smith's husband died and then all the entire family just poured in and
19:28
started suing everybody saying like who's gonna get the money who should get what that's basically what happened here yeah so despite the fact that nobody
19:34
actually gave a [ __ ] about Marge's well-being or what's going on with her they cared to the extent that she was
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part of litigation that had to be addressed as related to the money in the will so
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her death had obvious Financial impacts and so they needed to stay on top of her
19:53
not because they gave a [ __ ] about her well-being because they needed to know what to do next with the litigation so
19:58
yeah her estranged son Rod Nugent he lived in Amarillo apparently he was successful he
20:05
was he's a pathologist a doctor he has a family there doing his own thing uh and
20:10
he obviously given that he's an amarillo and he's totally estranged from his mom has no Insight in what Bernie's doing in
20:16
Carthage so at the nine month March nobody no lawyers no family nobody's
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heard of Marge and Rod decides to go to Carthage to be like what's going on
20:29
let's go to the house and figure out what's going on so he goes with his daughter to Carthage they let themselves in they walk around
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the house no sign of life nothing going on it's worth noting Bernie had his own house so he wasn't there right he's
20:42
gonna ask if you live there he didn't okay he didn't Marge bought in the house like gave him or gave him a zero
20:47
interest loan to buy the house but then she died so he just bought the house um eventually they would uncover her body
20:53
in the freezer and obviously Rod reported this to the police the police immediately showed up and the first
21:00
person they questioned was Bernie though he's for sure Barney that did this yeah so
21:05
he he immediately admitted to killing I mean you look at this guy and like he's
21:10
not like a Savage he's not a guy you who's gonna like have to get worked over with a good cop bad cop routine he's a
21:15
soft guy right he just totally so he immediately confesses killing her I'm gonna go into my usual legal
21:21
procedure mode here for a minute there's a pre-trial concept known as change of venue which just means moving a trial
21:27
away from where the events that are subject to that trial took place to ensure a fair trial yeah like everyone
21:34
knows you you can't right yeah but but no so this is interesting this is different this is different than what
21:40
you're perceiving there usually the reason I do this is because the defendant could not be afforded a fair
21:45
trial in that area because it's presumed that everybody would hate them so for example Timothy McVeigh wasn't tried in
21:51
Oklahoma City like none of these guys get tried right place where they do the ACT yeah you couldn't he would have been
21:56
like well he died anyway but is it faster I've been in Oklahoma City
22:02
yeah yeah I mean they would have [ __ ] dragged him out of the courthouse and lynched them in the streets like I mean
22:07
it would have been terrible but well not terrible that probably would should have been a good thing but yeah it was awesome yeah yeah so in this case the
22:15
prosecution because usually it's so interesting because it's always the defendants that asked for change of
22:21
venue because they're the ones who are trying to ensure a fair trough yeah here the prosecution actually changed if anything because they're trying to get a
22:27
fair trough and they asked him because they're like everybody [ __ ] loves Bernie and hates Marge so there's no
22:33
chance that this journey pool is gonna convince this guy of this crime and so and so that's what they end up
22:40
doing so it's called Journey nullification it's when the jury basically says like we know you did it we don't care so it happens like every
22:47
now and then it happens but uh it's rare but in this case they're like that's going to happen so
22:53
Bernie was ultimately found guilty of first-degree murder and he was sentenced to life in prison
22:59
and this happened in 1998 that's when he got sentenced to life in prison it was obviously not a good experience
23:07
for Bernie he was immediately attacked by his fellow inmates because he's in
23:13
there for first degree murder you're in there with like cartel guys you're in there with like MS-13 gang members and
23:19
you see Bernie this chubby guy with his beard who like wants to sing in the choir and Praise Jesus all day like
23:25
walking in like of course take advantage of that so
23:32
he regardless of his horrible experience at the onset of being in prison he
23:37
eventually did find his Niche he's one of those guys who just fits into he's like water he fits in any container you put him in so he became a pillar of the
23:45
prison Community essentially so he was regarded as a model prisoner he was part of the prison choir because of course he
23:51
was he would teach Health classes to inmates and again but he knew him loved
23:58
him the guards loved him the inmates loved him he's just a fantastic guy all around fast forward 13 years to 2011. okay
24:07
the movie Bernie comes out and there's an awesome based lawyer named Jody Cole
24:12
who saw the movie and reached out to Richard link later to learn more about the case because Richard and um the skip
24:20
skip Hollingsworth they've worked on the screenplay together and then they were they had a ton of
24:25
background information on this case she would learn a detail about Bernie's life that we don't know for sure is true or
24:32
not but was corroborated through like Bernie never talked about it but it was
24:38
corroborated through journals that were found of his which is he was sexually abused as a child by his uncle yeah
24:45
so based on this and based on some of the research that Jody Cole ended up doing on what happened to someone when
24:51
they're sexually molested in a young age they she asserted in an appeal she filed
24:58
on behalf of Bernie that because of the sexual abuse and because Marge was abusive to him as well he basically went
25:06
into this disassociative state which basically just means like you're just destined right like you just don't you're not really all the way present to
25:13
what's going on and because of that that's the cause of this this murderer and it you can't put all the blame on on
25:20
Bernie for it so the judge did buy this and did state
25:27
that if I had known that I probably would not have sentenced him to the extent that I sentenced him
25:33
at the time and a new trial was set not to determine guilt because he was
25:38
obviously guilty he confessed to it it was said to determine the sentencing and to read judge the sentencing
25:44
in the interim the judge released Barney on bail on the condition that he lived
25:50
with Richard linklater at his Austin home which he did which makes no sense
25:56
yeah they're like you're under this guy's Ward as long as you under this guy's Ward will allow you to be released
26:02
basically so weird tomorrow I mean richerly glitter is kind of like an awesome institution the way like Willie Nelson
26:08
is right it's like it's like we trust him so that's why you can be released to him so he lived with Richard linklater
26:16
uh from 2014 till 2016. so at the re-sentencing hearing which then took
26:23
place in 16 largest son testified about how sweet and loving a mother she was
26:30
and you know so much of that just like smacks me of like we just aggrandize the
26:35
dead you know like yeah yeah when someone says like it's the whole don't speak ill of the Dead
26:42
um but it's like nobody felt that way like like you didn't feel that way you didn't talk to you about for nine months
26:48
like so again like the entire family was a strange former she voluntarily removed
26:54
her kids from the will and it was clear that like there was not a cohesive thing
26:59
going on between the family it's not like they were my friends no yeah what's funny is during the trial the county
27:06
commissioner for Carthage who knew Marge like really really well said Marge actually told him specifically quote
27:13
I'll spend every dime of my money before I leave it to my family she [ __ ] hated her so funny and these guys were
27:21
showing up in court they're like she was a she was a loving mother and she was this and that's why I mean they want her
27:26
money and they should I don't know it doesn't sound like there's a good reason for them not to have it just that she was a [ __ ] well here okay so here's the
27:34
thing in this situation no nobody gets the money so the way the way it works oh
27:40
because it went to Bernie and he's in jail it was yeah so there's several things going on one is What's called the
27:45
Slayer statutes and the other one is called this cheating to the state so a Slayer statute says that you CA a person
27:51
who kills another person cannot become the beneficiary of the person's inheritance that's not fair which means
27:56
it skips Bernie and goes to the state which is called is cheating to the state so like the state ends up getting that
28:02
money so none of it ends up going to the family anyways so that's where that's where that ended up I'm I'm sure the sun
28:10
sued the state to figure out like how he can get his hands on the money but yeah and I think he should yeah yeah yeah
28:17
[ __ ] awful so Marge's sister is a woman named Merrell Rhodes and she was
28:22
also at the resentencing hearing for Bernie and she goes quote I was always
28:27
afraid of her I never forgot that she was my sister I always loved her as a sister actually even when she did ugly
28:34
things and she did end quote and then her son who's Marge's nephew said the
28:40
portrayal of her aunt by Shirley MacLaine in the movie was completely accurate and reached out all the abuse
28:46
she would hurl his way it's like I don't know I don't buy Rod's perception of like my mom her mom his mom was like a
28:53
loving woman it's like I don't know smells like a duck sounds like a duck you know yeah
28:59
so I don't know how I feel about this like ultimately Bernie didn't get much better
29:04
of a sentence he ended up receiving 99 years but he became eligible for all so he's eligible for parole in about six
29:11
years from now so in 2029 he's gonna be eligible at that time he'll be 71 years old and we'll see what happens but it's
29:18
like a weird two years out yeah yeah you got two years out yeah but it's it was
29:25
it was you should read that article the I mean at least read the first half of it because there's a lot of stuff that I
29:30
didn't put in into this that that I read in there which was the diner talk the diner talk around
29:35
Carthage where you have like the the sheriff of the city you have the prosecution who were like this guy
29:41
killed an 81 year old woman and all these people are coming up to him and the diner saying go easy on Barney he's
29:47
a good guy and he's just like what is going like this this is your dissociative state of like what is
29:53
happening like why like what the trigger was like what happened they don't know we don't know what what
29:59
that trigger was at least I didn't read I didn't understand what the trigger was presumably it was just like abuse just like yelling and screaming and being
30:05
being a total bee and him just losing and be like whatever I'm just gonna kill you I can't take this but what's interesting is like they asked Bernie
30:11
they're like why didn't you just like get rid of her body because the prosecution did state that if they hadn't found the body they never would
30:18
have been able to charge them with anything and um and he was like his his
30:23
quote on this is because everybody deserves a good funeral and you know I
30:29
was wondering what his mortician is because I feel like as a mortician you'd be really good at hiding a body but also maybe you have like that um
30:36
yeah like just like that that like loyalty to giving someone a burial the way that you've done that for so long that's so interesting because yeah you
30:42
figure like if anyone would know how to do it right yeah I mean I thought that his move was pretty good of just stuff
30:47
in the body in the freezer like then it's not gonna rot and you know who goes digging the bottom of free service besides Rod
30:54
um I know it's interesting that they found her in there I feel like for the most part you'd be like I don't know
31:00
yeah because you got to wonder like I wanted her well they wanted to like deal with it like if she's dead then they can work on her inheritance do they
31:05
know that it was going to Bernie I don't think they knew that no no the people were strange they didn't have any
31:12
communication in the will and because nobody knew she was dead the will was never executed on so they wouldn't have known that anything had gone anywhere
31:18
any of the money had transitioned from one account to the other right so it's a
31:24
really interesting story The the movie's phenomenal like it's not a sad movie it's it's fun I really really really did
31:30
like it it's definitely worth a watch she's awesome and she's such a mean woman oh she's so good like she's so
31:37
freaking good and um still Magnolias it's like unbelievable and that was like 30 40 years ago
31:43
um I know that you're a Texas person um but I also just want to say again
31:49
that people should not have guns you know they're just like left not killed her
31:55
like what would he have strangled her you think no he's too soft he's too soft for that yeah
32:01
there was somebody did his sister did bring up like why didn't you just leave and it
32:08
was something about like she just couldn't he was like she just controls everything because at that point she was everything to him she was his
32:14
finances like she bought his house like everything was wrapped up in her which is like super manipulative and like
32:21
that's something that like people who are like that they do is it like Mickey really dependent on them and then they abuse you that's what an abuser does
32:26
it's like the spouse you know like they'll be like you can't leave you don't have a job you
32:32
don't have any skills you know whatever like yeah well it's interesting because it's actually the exact same story we
32:37
keep telling ourselves over and over again except it's reverse it is always it's usually older man younger girl Rich
32:43
remain poor girl in this case it's the exact opposite like super effeminine docile
32:50
dude against like an old Rich lady who's just like super Alpha like over the top
32:56
um yeah in the south end but yeah your question about the guns
33:03
is interesting I guess if you didn't have access to it you probably would have just tried to leave her or something I don't know yeah
33:09
but anyways uh that's that's the story and likewise I
33:15
I don't know because I don't know if I feel bad that he killed her because it feels like she deserves to die well I
33:21
feel like I feel like it's a red flag that like I don't know those relationships ever work out well you know where like
33:27
someone is like depending on you to like do stuff for them and they're like paying you but they're like oh we're just friends I'm gonna like give you
33:33
some money but then like it always turns weird you know that you're like you can't take like a 200 000 interest-free
33:39
loan from a friend and can remain in the same level you know yeah they'll always have that to hold against you in like
33:45
whatever way yeah so are we sad that Marge is dead no
33:54
yeah okay good good that was uh that was very that was that was probably the
34:00
least gross story I've told in probably it wasn't very gross I I will watch this
34:06
movie Jack we I haven't we've been watching him or they just went to see uh Mario Brothers and Jack Black please uh
34:11
Bowser oh nice I want to see that movie too yeah it's cute did you go to
34:18
no they went while I was gone but they keep playing the Peaches song Because Bowser's like in love with peaches it is
34:23
a song about peaches and I know they love it they keep playing it nice nice
34:28
so in your case we're drinking holy water yeah just like pretend to like
34:34
Splash it on you and make the sign of the cross done close close okay oh yeah right yes
34:42
now we've we've blessed ourselves um cool so I will okay I don't know I
34:49
don't know what I'm doing I thought this was going to be two parts now I think it's only one and I kind of changed what I was talking about in the middle of
34:54
reading it last night but I'm just gonna do anyway so I started
35:00
um researching this like a couple weeks ago because I knew that I was going to drive to LA and have some time in the car and
35:07
like have some time to listen to books and stuff so I did that and so it's a huge story you have a lot of thoughts
35:13
but I just wanted to talk about like a little bit of it and then like a history of something in it but the story itself
35:19
kind of takes place in the 1970s so not super long ago but like it's still in the past so I'm gonna do something I'm
35:25
gonna lay out some facts and you tell me who we're talking about I'm gonna have you guess again okay okay so
35:31
we're gonna talk about a couple things this couple themselves in their history talk about Folly I do like two people
35:38
kind of leaving something weird and the history of exorcism
35:43
can you think of a couple I have another oh my God the Warrens yes
35:49
the warrants good job good job I love that we have the exact
35:54
same diet of media like we just like yeah well
35:59
I was gonna my next hint is going to be some of the best horror movies and the
36:05
most handsome man in horror Patrick Wilson uh uh is that the guy who plays the man
36:12
Warren yeah he plays Ed Warren um my friend our friend Jay and I like
36:18
spoon we talk about it he's so handsome to us and he also Jay Godfrey swoons
36:24
over Patrick whatever his name is yeah totally Patrick Wilson um maybe maybe in that Swoon but he
36:30
loves him too um but then I also one time this is not anything to do with this but Patrick Wilson also can sing and he played Curly from Oklahoma on
36:37
Broadway and like that's all the things he's so handsome and I love Oklahoma so it's very
36:43
exciting so he's the best so yes we're talking about Ed and Lorraine Warren so they are demonologists mediums public
36:50
speakers Exorcist authors collectors and Marcus podcast yeah he calls them
36:57
Christian superheroes but essentially I don't I do not believe them I think that they are charlatans
37:04
exactly they're 100 strong sense their history is like of just being complete
37:09
deadbeats and then finding a niche like yeah they just like struck they just
37:14
struck gold with a niche and it's all Wise It's all [ __ ] any Bill didn't happen like
37:24
so we'll talk about all the movies later I was gonna do that next week but we'll just do it now because it just was like
37:29
this this has been a lot so yes exactly like you said like in any of those there was a horrible tragedy that we'll talk
37:35
about they're making stuff up I'm einfeld case in Enfield case in England that was all made up by the girls so the
37:41
stuff is all definitely made up but so I'm reading this story and here's the following things that happened to me so
37:46
I read their book The demonologist and then I bought it because it's kind of fun so I have it here a demonologist right on the rain war and it's good and
37:53
the guy who reads it reads it in a Long Island accent which is like also very fun because that's the kind of they're from Connecticut so it's like that so this is them I'll put the picture but
37:59
that's what they look like not as handsome as Patrick Wilson IRL so okay so listen to their book on the way home
38:05
from when miles and I had dinner with you and I hit an owl
38:11
it's not crazy that I hit an owl with my car it's fine I just had its wing but so I was like
38:17
whoa listening to this thing about demons I just hit an owl and then my radio a different time went to a weird setting
38:24
and it was like type in your code and it kept going 6666666 by itself and then
38:31
my Arlo is keep telling me there's a person in my backyard and there's no person back there and then
38:36
my Alexa is playing music for no reason so I'm like did I summon a demon
38:41
uh probably not but like miles walks in the background on you
38:49
summon the owl to haven't you oh my God
38:55
all right I'll be right there okay okay so anyway all those things happened I thought they were kind of crazy you know so I was like if you look for demons
39:01
they're you're gonna find demons which is exactly the point you know so the owl thing is kind of freaky though like that's not like a weird like I mean yes
39:08
technology glitches but like Alice have consistently been a topa of death and you hitting one
39:18
it flew away but that's so weird right I've never hit an owl before yeah
39:23
like you have a card it's a wild one miles was like what is happening also there's a new I wrote am I the algorithm
39:30
or is the algorithm me because there's a new Conjuring series on HBO coming up soon so like I'm just like I don't know
39:37
did I know that when I said to this I don't know but that's coming up soon um I was also in a hotel all week this week so I was watching The Unexplained
39:43
on Netflix with William Shatner there's a couple episodes about demons that are fun um he looks terrible looks like he's a
39:50
dead person telling you the show he looks super old but there's a an episode where a lady is like I think that my
39:56
house is haunted it came with all this furniture this chair right here the guy died in it they found him a week later I
40:01
was like or about your way yeah why would you want that in your house yeah so anyway
40:07
it's fun if you ever want to watch that so Ed Warren was a demonologist which is essentially like he studied demons um he
40:14
says he's the only person allowed to perform exorcisms or recognized for them outside of the Catholic church I'll talk
40:19
about more of that of that in a second so their story is in the it's an is you
40:25
know in the 1970s 60s but I want to talk about exorcism like as a historical
40:31
thing in different religions as well so another thing for the that's fun like so
40:38
the book demonologist is fun some stuff that Ed clarifies in the book it's like written by them and another
40:45
writer who like wrote it you know what I mean it's like sometimes it's in his voice but for the record many times
40:51
exorcisms like they're not ghosts they are demons so yeah I'm gonna go struggle
40:57
my demon but he's saying that ghosts do exist because of things that are like this
41:02
kind of makes sense but he's like of course you see ghosts a Victorian women in
41:08
houses because that's when like the oldest houses that we have were built and women died in them all the [ __ ]
41:15
time like having babies and stuff so like of course if you have if you bring your newborn baby into an old Victorian
41:21
house there's a really good chance that there is a woman who died in childbirth there that's going to come and try to look at your baby in the middle of the
41:27
night and I'm like I feel like that makes sense
41:32
so I do think that when I was when we were working on the Biltmore that I that
41:39
I saw a woman I do remember that and
41:44
I just convinced myself that I didn't you know but I was like but I know I did
41:49
yeah was seen alive a lot more Lobby hotel or
41:54
the lobby bar yeah yeah no I um I was playing in that back unfinished part of
42:00
the Biltmore and I was playing pong with somebody else and they whacked the ball
42:06
past me and I tried to like spin to get it and as I spun I saw a woman standing
42:12
behind me in all white and then I got I like finished the spin and I
42:19
turned back around and there was nobody there okay well I am obviously like
42:26
not religious and I'm saying there's no demons but like I believe you [ __ ] that scares me but I mean tell it to be fair
42:33
I was I also vividly remember being like six years old and my mom asked me to get
42:39
something from her room and seeing Skeletor there Lake Shelter standing in her room
42:48
have a Skeletor poster no it was like a real Skeletor and I saw
42:53
it with my eyes and was like and then I looked back and like I was probably playing with a Skeletor doll and then
42:59
just imagined it you know so well so yes so that's actually that's the thing so Ed Warren is like I don't believe in
43:05
like a literal flaming hell but he does believe in like the DI comedy dichotomy of Good and Evil and like light and dark
43:11
and like one thing or the other and like that there are other things happening in like different planes so it feels it
43:17
sounds like something that I could maybe get on board with is the idea of like a spectral plane time has no meaning
43:22
different dimensions something collected unconscious like in your head like there's a lot more going on in like our brains than we know which like I think
43:30
could account for some of that yeah yeah I can buy that yeah um so anyway that's just I'm scared a
43:38
little bit like I I feel like I see ghosts at my house sometimes they're like quarter of the eye ghosts they're kind of like they can swish past you
43:45
know what I mean like yeah you're like no it wasn't so um but we're not talking girls talking
43:50
like actual demons like agents of the Satan himself every once in a while like Satan will show up on these stories like
43:56
as a physical thing and so for exorcisms themselves I'm sure that like everything
44:02
else it happened for all time because mental illness has happened for all of
44:07
time you know what I mean so like if someone is like schizophrenic there was schizophrenic people in the Middle Ages and of course you're
44:12
going to be like this person is possessed by something because you don't understand you don't even understand it right now really you know so for good
44:19
measure I looked up a couple things just like give myself some background and like figure it out
44:25
um you can go to catholic.com and get the words for the right of exorcism so
44:30
they actually have like all the words that you need to read to perform an exorcism and it does say this is a fun
44:37
part so I'm gonna read this part of the of the prayer yields therefore yields
44:43
not to my own person but to the minister of Christ for it is the power of Christ that compels you who brought you low by
44:49
his cross tremble before that Mighty arm that broke asunder the dark Prison Walls and led Souls forth to light so that has
44:56
like power of Christ King policy which is the funnest part that's pretty awesome yeah it's actually in the extras and right is in there
45:03
um I also want to look up also like I was talking about Catholics I can't not bring up that since 1940 4 392 us-based
45:10
Catholic priests I've been accused of molestation which is four percent of them so like and also Protestants in the
45:17
past 20 years they've identified 380 sexual abuse abusers and there's a headline that southern Baptists are like
45:23
due to be in a lot of trouble just wanted to bring that up too we're talking about the church yeah
45:28
so in other religions in Buddhism there is the practice of reciting or listening to the parita so that is um reciting
45:36
certain verses and scriptures in order to ward off Misfortune or danger so that's kind of like an exorcism Eastern
45:42
Orthodox religions they distinguish Dominic possession from mental illness and the way that they do that is by
45:48
seeing if the person reacts negatively to holy relics so if you're like having visions they'll like throw holy water at
45:54
you and if you're like you know I'm wet then they're like he's have he's maybe having like an episode but if you're
46:00
like it burns they're like demon makes sense yeah it feels like a movie but
46:05
yeah yeah Mormons sometimes do it in Hindu Traditions people can be possessed by
46:11
behoots or press so the Relentless and often malignant beings kind of like ghosts
46:17
um that can like possess people so that's what people that's what Hindus believe it's in Islam it's Judaism it's in taoism interesting Sikhs do not
46:24
believe human demons they're like no so there's no like seek right of exorcism because they're like that they don't
46:30
exist so no yeah so in that okay so in that hypothetical could anybody be possessed could I be if
46:37
if you're Muslim can be possessed by like a Catholic devil I don't know
46:44
you're Muslim the devil the demonism is Muslim
46:49
okay I'm trying to prove poke holes in The Possession Thing by saying well then
46:55
how many Sikhs have been ever been possessed by anything but if you don't believe it then you probably can't be possessed by it oh my God we just
47:00
watched Zoolander and that reminds me he goes how many epigenous do you see modeling yeah
47:06
um so anyway so I I also wrote find me on my sidecast exorcism dot dot dot what
47:13
I'll be doing those episodes soon yeah let me throw it yeah have you ever
47:20
heard the theory that exorcisms do work for mental illness because it's a placebo effect of like if you think you
47:26
are possessed then you think that the remedy is the exorcism and it solves the problem
47:33
yeah I kind of think I kind of think that that might be what the wardens were doing I'll talk about that actually have
47:38
that written in the notes later but yes exactly like I think maybe if you think that your house is possessed by a demon
47:43
and you need to move on if you have these two wackadoodles come into your house sprinkle holy water everywhere
47:50
like do all these things and they say like this house is clean and they leave you're gonna be like well [ __ ] this
47:55
house is clean you're gonna find Salt yeah I'm solved exactly so like I don't know if that's nice but all accounts are
48:01
nice people they're like trying to do the right thing so maybe that was the kind of a part of it too that like people feel better after we do this so
48:07
we're doing it you know right right so anyway we're talking Catholic exorcisms in the timeline is
48:14
in ad70 the gospel of Mark was written and that's where he first writes that Jesus casts out evil spirits there's
48:21
some stuff in the Bible about animals and other people being possessed by demons so it's there in the Bible
48:26
um and like I said before like this is probably something that was in like every religion before this as well in 1526 in 1526 Martin Luther adds exorcism
48:35
to the baptismal rights so we know like Martin Luther started a lot of things and we've talked about this before because we're talking about the
48:41
Protestant Reformation we were talking about Henry the eighth and so like Ann Boland died 10 years after this because
48:47
that's when he got like the idea to separate from from Catholicism and all of that but in a sense and I hadn't
48:54
really thought about this but a baptism to like a baby is an exorcism
49:00
yes it's like a light baby exorcism you pray over them you bring the holy water
49:05
their parents are there afterwards you have to change clothes like it's just it's like a little tiny exorcism you're
49:11
like getting all of the Badness from being born with sin out of the baby and then it can like go and make its own
49:17
mistakes yeah so that's what it is Catholics have been really into it for a while
49:22
Protestants are okay with it but they don't love it they did it as more of like a community festival and not like
49:28
tied to one person and probably more like performance art of like religion and then in the Renaissance
49:34
um and then when Shakespeare was around there's an exorcism in King Lear and one in Twelfth Night and then you get to the
49:41
Puritans and so we talked about them a little bit before in the past two they came over to America they're spooky they
49:46
believe in witches and they hate fun so they kind of believe in like that being possessed but they don't do exorcisms
49:53
per se but they do like try to kill the person who possessed the person like we saw on like The Witch Trials yeah
49:59
so then a bunch of bad stuff happens in America and then first just dropped something he didn't yeah yeah um and
50:06
then just kidding and then we're in the 1900s and so what happens in the 1900s
50:12
is Pentecostalism becomes a big thing people start being born again speaking
50:17
in tongues and like doing creepy weird stuff like like and
50:22
um from history.com's article I read they said quote pentecostalism's high energy worship worship services and The
50:30
Lure of the possibility of receiving Supernatural gifts from the Holy Spirit caused the movement to attract new
50:35
members that continue to grow throughout the first half of the 20th century so they're like we can like
50:40
get powers from God now you know Jesus can like actually literally heal us and like literally do these things so people
50:47
are kind of sort of believe in like weirder things and then in the 1960s Catholics hard to think about exorcism a
50:52
little bit more and they're like starting to like do them a little bit and then The Exorcist the book comes out
50:58
in 1971. so the same thing happened with when like there were exorcisms in 12th night
51:03
in Shakespeare that happened when the Exorcist came out is that people started to like need them more because they saw
51:09
it culturally you know yeah makes sense you've seen The Exorcist obviously oh my God I've seen it so many times I think
51:16
they're remaking it actually are they I hope it's good have you read it no no I won't see the movie
51:22
um have you seen Exorcist zaxos 3 was George C Scott with a nurse that's like the serious like scene in all movies
51:28
yeah yeah all of them I've seen all of them they're they're all fun
51:33
so one thing and it says a little bit about some of the conjuring movies and like what they're titled as well like I
51:39
took me until reading it to realize that like it's about the man it's not about the
51:45
demon it's not about the girl it's about the priest The Exorcist is the priest
51:51
who does exorcism and it's about him and like his journey and then like 50 year
51:56
old spoiler alert he dies yeah like I just like didn't I didn't think it was about him until I was like reading it I
52:02
was like oh it's about this is his story now the story of like Pazuzu see it it ties into all these things I'm talking
52:07
we're talking the Puritans we're talking Henry the eighth all of it that's right Pazuzu was the demon that got Regan or
52:14
Reagan whatever Reagan yeah yeah so now it's like out like it's in like
52:20
we're in the 70s people are thinking about it a lot like they're scared my mom and my dad and my uncle went to see it in the theaters I remember my mom was
52:26
like unimpressible my dad and my uncle were like this is the scariest movie I've ever seen yeah my my mom and dad
52:33
talked a lot about The Exorcist as one of their favorite movies it was like the first time to win software movies are
52:39
not horror people but yeah it sounds like they actually was really like a cultural phenomenon it wasn't like a
52:44
genre specific thing like everybody had to see The Exorcist yeah so that's awesome yeah super fun so okay now let's
52:52
talk about Ed and Lorraine Warren so Edward Warren Mindy was born in 1926 and
52:59
Lorraine Rita Warren was born in 1927 they grew up very close to each other in Connecticut so they lived in a small
53:05
town near each other they got married in 1945 and um their daughter Judy was born in 1946.
53:12
so like you said they're kind of like bumbling around like Ed was a bus driver for a little bit Lorraine was like a
53:18
homemaker they're trying to figure out what they wanted to do next and Ed was also a painter so if we think about the
53:24
um The Conjuring movies Patrick Wilson is always painting and I feel like we've talked about this before like where you
53:30
want to like you need to set up some sort of like deal with your spouse or like you believe them it's like one night if I remember like one it was
53:36
raining teeth in the house he's gonna be like great let's move you know like he's gonna like believe me and move on but if I'm like if I'm like one I had a dream
53:44
about this like terrifying nun and I just drew this picture of this demon in my dream he'll get me professional help
53:49
you know like listen not like it's not normal like in the movie like several of the movies Lorraine will like
53:56
wake up and he'll be like painting this like terrifying thing you're like please don't do that in the house but
54:02
also just don't have a demon room don't have a room where you contain all the
54:07
demons because things are gonna happen they absolutely have that yeah and like I don't believe it but also like don't do that don't test it like because
54:14
they're dull that doll's a real doll that doll's um in on on Key West I think right like that's a I forgot what the
54:21
name of the doll was but it's actually Annabelle we'll talk about Annabelle yeah yeah okay yeah I'll talk about that
54:26
story but yeah no it's like real real yeah so well they decide to do is they they're
54:32
all also kind of interested in like the like the occult and all of that Lorraine has a sixth sense doing little quote
54:39
things so she's like kind of psychic can kind of like do things she can like sense presences she sees auras you know
54:45
all the things that that Lorraine can do and so they
54:50
do a thing where they find in the paper cases of haunted houses so people who think that their house is haunted and
54:55
they go and they stand outside their house and they paint their house and then they go and they talk to the person about the hauntings and then they
55:02
sell the painting later to be like this is a painting we did of a real haunted house and we went and talked to the couple and here's what's happening to
55:08
them so that's what how they kind of like wiggled their way into people's haunted houses haunted houses and started to like think about that as a
55:15
thing but how did they even get the idea they were just like we are
55:22
he wanted to paint and she was thinking about like all of her like being kind of psychic
55:28
and success stuff and she they thought they could Channel it into haunted houses okay don't be aware of that but that's
55:34
what that's what I got from their book yeah fair enough yeah so The Conjuring movies definitely show them being like
55:40
super super in love in the topic of backstory and they were like married forever and they were definitely married until he died and then I also found an
55:47
article in The Hollywood Reporter um that's there's a woman who sued The Conjuring movies because of that because
55:53
she says that he she was 15 years old and she moved in with them and she stayed with them for 40 years and she
55:59
was like Ed's second wife I'm gonna live with them yeah he looks like a man who
56:04
has Secrets yeah so he made a secret but they ended up
56:09
through their paintings and threw it going around and talking to people in haunted houses doing these things where
56:15
they would like do many exorcisms and they would like you know tell people there's a demon in their house and they would like cleanse the house and they
56:21
would get the clergy involved when they needed to get the clergy involved so they're sort of like a first step into someone who could like really help
56:26
people and like you said before they're really nice they're really sweet like really genuinely seem like they want to
56:31
help people whether or not like they do they're doing like a real thing or not um they traveled all around the country
56:37
they did tons of public lectures so they were like really out in in the field all the time you could just like call their
56:43
house and they would like answer the phone like come and help you and they collected like you said tape recordings
56:50
haunted artifacts they had that occult Museum in their house unfortunately it's now closed after they both passed but it
56:57
was you know you can see it in the movies and it's kind of just like that it's like a room with like a bunch of like creepy [ __ ] that they say is tied
57:03
to all these cases and then they have like a priest Come Bless the room and they keep everything like in certain
57:10
places Annabelle and I will talk about this when I talk about Annabelle but Annabelle is a Raggedy Ann doll which is
57:17
so much scarier than anything in the whole entire world I thought it was a monkey
57:23
no Annabelle's a raggedy and now there is a monkey there's a monkey and Conjuring one okay okay right no
57:29
they've been well I thought that isn't like the thing Annabelle herself is a
57:34
Raggedy Ann doll and if you've never seen a raggedy and doll but they're [ __ ] creepy and Have You Ever Seen The Omen yes the original one there's
57:41
also a raggedy and Alik in a grave and that movie in some somehow and I'm like [ __ ] Rick and dolls are so scary but
57:47
it's terrifying absolutely not no whatever my mom had a really scary doll in her in her room and she can't find it
57:53
it's been lost for like a couple years I was like Mom I was like it went back to hell it is out of our Lives I I have a
57:59
friend a friend who I've known since high school and I used to go to her parents house every now and then to hang out and they had
58:06
this section of the house underneath the staircase where the mom had put like a
58:12
wagon and in the wagon there was a bunch of pillows on top of the pillows there was this porcelain doll making face
58:18
because I'm real mad that was a there was so scary like I still remember
58:23
it I mean I saw this thing like 23 years ago for the first time and I still remember it yeah it was it was it dead
58:30
eyes Black dead eyes just staring at you and I'm right I asked her about it like years and years and years later I was
58:36
like what was up with that dog say my mom just loved it my mom just love this doll and that's why it was always in the
58:41
house it was so creepy we have one person one and I was like is this worth anything it'll get up and I was like No And I'm like I don't want to throw it
58:47
away because my friend's gonna come back but I also like don't love that yeah it will come back that's how it usually
58:53
happens definitely not now when I have all this like energy around me from the all these demons so just a little bit
58:59
left before I talk about the movies for a second like so do they really believe themselves or like was it a fully audio
59:05
situation where like two people believe in something that's like so over the top but they just like really really believe
59:11
in it or was it like you know they believe because the other person
59:17
believes it do they believe it or they do that do they believe it enough that like it helps people anyway like you were saying like you have someone come
59:23
in and say that you're fine then you like feel fine one thing that they do that they did in like one of the
59:29
religions that I mentioned before I think it was the Eastern Orthodox where they like use a lot of physical objects
59:34
so they have the physical objects in their Museum they use crosses they use the holy water so they're like like real things against people who are you know
59:41
um you know potentially possessed and the thing in the in The Conjuring movies
59:46
that I really liked is I felt like that was one of the first times that they portrayed but like I saw like a ghost or
59:52
a demon in a movie that felt like a real physical form and it I feel like that was intentional because like you know
59:57
the conjuring when like there's like those arms that come out of the Wardrobe and clap and then there's like that like demon on top of the Wardrobe like that's
1:00:03
good the [ __ ] out of me and I felt like because it wasn't like ethereal ghost it was like this is an actual thing that can hurt you you know and so like I
1:00:10
think for Ed and Lorraine like they were really helpful to people because they were like it's not you you have something hurting you you have a
1:00:16
physical thing that is hurting you and that's what we can help you get rid of you know yeah that's how people like
1:00:21
move past it it's also criticism especially because they're like all of our work is like really really
1:00:27
scientific and then people are like but you based it all on God so it can't be so so that's actually the thing that
1:00:33
like I will be a contrarian and say I really don't love The Conjuring movies
1:00:39
you don't I love them you're going because it's um
1:00:44
the matter of factness of the way they discuss or present their opinions and
1:00:50
thoughts is so cringe to me I like exactly that that they definitely get right because they're like God is
1:00:56
real demons are real this is real like they're acting like they're giving thesis statements at Harvard and it's
1:01:03
like you're a bunch of like you're you're pulling stuff out of nothing there's no science at all in this like
1:01:09
yes yes exactly exactly and so we had some there's a 1997 interview in the
1:01:17
Connecticut Post and the New England skeptical society which sounds fun they
1:01:22
said they found the couple to be pleasant but their claim of demons and ghosts was quote at best as tellers of
1:01:28
meaningless ghost stories and at worst dangerous frauds so like it's like a
1:01:33
little bit of both but yeah you can't be like like they say everything like gets fact there really isn't like a wiggle room
1:01:39
there wasn't stuff that they're saying yeah we could assume that what they did help people right but how many people
1:01:44
did it also Inspire to have these thoughts of like this is what's happening to me too yeah they didn't get
1:01:50
help that help yeah like what's happening anyway like there was that German exorcism like anna-lysa yeah um
1:01:56
during that time too she just had epilepsy you know like there's like other cases of people in like Latin
1:02:02
America and South America dying because they live in small towns as an adequate medical care so they're calling someone
1:02:07
to do an exorcism and you're like that person really needed you go get a hospital yeah you know they didn't need
1:02:14
you to do all these things with them that ultimately like leads to their death because there's so much other stuff going on right yeah so they but
1:02:19
they were very successful in their life they went around the country they toured they wrote books they were like 10 books they had died in 2006 and Lorraine died
1:02:28
in 2019 so she kept the museum alive until she died and it went to her daughter and her son-in-law and that was
1:02:33
closed but I don't know like why that happens but but yeah they just like lived this really weird life going
1:02:39
around helping people and like the a really seriously there are demons way does it make sense
1:02:46
yes sir I was trying to find a thing because I heard that they
1:02:52
sold the rights no it wasn't them it wasn't them it was the lutzes the lutzes
1:02:59
sold the rights to their story for three hundred thousand dollars was like man
1:03:05
that was a bargain so okay so let's talk about the movies and so some of the movies that they're like involved in like oh one I didn't
1:03:11
write down is like in Poltergeist which is also fantastic the woman is supposed to be based off of Lorraine and she's
1:03:17
like an older woman who's like a psychic you know yeah I'm talking about the Amityville story so in real life the house in
1:03:25
Amityville Long Island the son of the defeo family killed everybody in the middle of the night he said a demon made
1:03:31
him do it he probably was just you know schizophrenic having an episode something else um he killed his
1:03:38
whole family and then the lutzes bought the house they were married um Luft was the stepdad to the kids it
1:03:45
ruined the kids lives I watched a movie a documentary of their son and their son's like my life is [ __ ] ruined
1:03:50
because of this because he's like what I believe like my parents were telling me there were ghosts here but like there weren't really but everybody knew who he
1:03:56
was after that and it was just like pretty awful how that happened to him so is it widely is it widely now accepted
1:04:02
that nothing in that movie was or the story was accurate I think so I mean I've heard that people overheard that
1:04:09
the lutzes and the and the Warrens laughing about how much money they were going to make you know so it's like one thing and nothing's
1:04:16
happened in the house since like no one was ever since but it has like a ton of movies that are great I watched one
1:04:22
about this like haunted lamp that like Heidi Duke was in it it was like really good it was like Anthony DeVille there's an ambient evil dollhouse movie that I
1:04:27
watched from the 70s that was like kind of a made for TV movie but like they're great and it's super fun and really
1:04:32
scary you know when like Lutz falls into that closet full of blood
1:04:38
is that the original because I remember yeah yeah no no I thought that so by
1:04:45
contrast to quandary movies I love the Amityville movies like I thought those were fantastic because it was it didn't
1:04:50
it didn't it didn't go into this whole science aspect of like possession and stuff it was just a fun scary movie I I
1:04:57
still think it's scary that that whole scene of um Ketchum the uh the guy who
1:05:03
would torture Native Americans and bury them in that crawl space like remember that
1:05:09
from the Remake no yeah there was a yeah Ryan Reynolds found a room in the
1:05:15
basement that led to this torture chamber underneath the house is where this guy this European guy would torture
1:05:23
Native Americans it was just fantastic and also by the way it's worth noting
1:05:28
that I don't totally buy that Ron defeo did that on his own because everybody
1:05:33
was found on their stomachs he shot them with like a 45 he shot them with like
1:05:39
the loudest gun possible and they were saying like maybe his sister helped him and then he goes
1:05:44
her did you hear that yeah yeah I heard I heard I heard that like they were like romantically involved oh yeah
1:05:53
yeah and and I also heard that like his dad was like actually a legitimate mobster and maybe like there was
1:05:59
something going on with that but I don't know I don't know destroy itself is really creepy I will say that Taylor knowing me as well as she knows me when
1:06:06
I got my house in Austin she sent me a housewarming gift and it's the sign that hangs outside of the Lutz's house on the
1:06:13
night that Ron killed his entire family and it just says High Hopes on it and I put it up in my house and people come
1:06:19
over and they're like why is this like 38 year old man like have decorations that like a 70 year old woman in
1:06:26
Carthage would have you know it's like no no no this is cool it's not weird it's not like a live laugh love exactly
1:06:32
it's not a live laugh love it's a murder thing it's it's way cooler
1:06:38
yeah and like I did also like in one of the documentaries with like the kid that grew up and was really like haunted like
1:06:45
literally haunted by the whole thing he they were like yeah there was a Red Room in the basement because we just like had red paints it painted like a room red
1:06:51
and you're like okay well people are gonna be mad about that but that's but that's Amy DeVille the house was up for sale every couple years
1:06:57
but like no one no one's been seen anything there since for the animals would you sleep in that house I wouldn't
1:07:03
I wouldn't ask him in that house five people were shot to death every
1:07:09
room no I don't know there's a body in every room in that house like that yeah definitely not sleep in like the attic
1:07:15
rooms they have like the eye Windows you know like that's a hard note for me yeah yeah I go there but I'd be scared you
1:07:23
know I'm scared yeah I don't know so the Annabelle story is about a doll that
1:07:28
Raggedy Ann doll and um the movie in the movie The Beginning of The Conjuring movie they do the Annabelle story the
1:07:34
way that like it really happened which is these two nursing students got this doll and they were like then it started
1:07:40
like weird stuff started to happen like it was always moving around the house and it's hard to like leave little notes on paper that they didn't have but the
1:07:47
pen they didn't have that but like miss me I'm like right on the wall which is so scary and then they try to throw away and she came back and all these things
1:07:52
and they were like a little girl named Annabelle died here and we like let her into the doll but it wasn't a doll it wasn't a ghost it was actually a demon
1:07:59
and like it scratched the boyfriend and all those like super fun stuff there's a lot of animal movies that go back to
1:08:05
like Annabelle creation and like they're fun but that's not like the real story of Annabelle right right so the
1:08:11
conjuring the first one that I really like in that story the family had actually been in the house
1:08:17
for like 13 years before they started having problems and another thing where I didn't think about
1:08:23
the title just like in The Exorcist like they don't really talk about in The Conjuring movie they're like oh a woman who was like related to the ghosts and
1:08:30
oh no maybe that's a different one but like a woman killed her child here and like started to make everybody kill their children and like that's what had
1:08:37
happened but like in real life one of the daughters tried to summon a demon and that's what a Conjuring is so
1:08:44
like I mean like I don't know like I took that word for granted but like they um a Conjuring is like Conjuring a demon
1:08:50
so the girl was like into it so her parents bought her a book and one of the things that Adam Lorena like is like there's always books on the occult you
1:08:56
gotta be careful because if you read one and you do it the wrong way you're gonna let something really scary into your house you know so that's what happened
1:09:01
in that story and in that story in the book sorry the Warrens book and what they say like really happened was that when it
1:09:08
was over they left and they were like just so you know this isn't like totally gone but it's like mostly gone and they're like what do you mean and then
1:09:14
something took is what they say so they took Lorraine's glasses off of her face and threw them on the ground and they
1:09:19
were like just don't piss it off again which is hilarious
1:09:25
um I know there's a nun movie too as well with them because he did have those like nun dreams and he was a painter but
1:09:30
there's like more to that story that I don't know a ton about but the last one um oh okay country two is about the
1:09:36
Enfield Poltergeist in England and they were like barely there they were like
1:09:41
there for a day they weren't really involved in that story at all the other people from like the the society in
1:09:46
England that went and stayed and really researched it were there for like almost two years it lived with this family for
1:09:52
almost two years but it's like it was obviously the kids it was just the girls you know messing about yeah
1:09:59
and then Conjuring three makes no [ __ ] sense I've seen it like three times and I have no idea what's going on
1:10:05
like there is a story where the Warrens went to help with someone who had said that he was possessed by a demon when he
1:10:11
killed his landlord but is that the devil made me do it yeah
1:10:16
okay so like that case is real then there's also this like whole part where I get super lost where like they find a
1:10:22
cave and there's like this like really tall woman who's like the daughter of this old man and she does a thing and like just I still don't know what
1:10:29
happened and I've seen it a lot yeah yeah that's what I didn't watch again like I just fell out of love with The
1:10:35
Conjuring movies I was just like also I also find that woman who's the one who becomes possessed really [ __ ]
1:10:40
annoying and I don't like watching her Rebecca Taylor in The Conjuring one yeah
1:10:46
I think that's probably her name that's fair that's fair yeah yeah that one I really like because it has some of like
1:10:52
some of the things that are like so scary to me that like like the having your sheets ripped off of you in the
1:10:57
middle of the night you know like stuff like that you're like oh my God I would like lose my mind if that was something that had happened to me you know so
1:11:04
because it's like it's like the real tangible stuff that they show in that movie that I felt was like new as far as like ghost stories and like hauntings
1:11:10
went because I wasn't like there's a murder in my house it was like there's this like physical being in my house that's haunting me and like yeah I think
1:11:16
that's super scary and like super I that's what I think those are fun I will definitely watch The Conjuring TV show but I just I still think maybe like the
1:11:23
real end of the rain Warren aren't what I want to continue to learn about but I still want to watch I don't know if they're emerging of Patrick Wilson are
1:11:29
in it but I still want to watch them together yeah Patrick Wilson in like Insidious and all movies that he's in
1:11:34
because he's so handsome that was a good one man there was a there was a time period there when like all those movies
1:11:42
hit at once and they're so good Sinister do you remember sinister sinister there's like an article and it's like
1:11:48
what are the scariest movies of all time and Sinister is number one just because like the couple things that happen
1:11:54
people's heart rates like went out of control like just like that was me that was me I that was one of the few movies
1:12:00
I watched where I regretted watching it afterwards yeah it was that in babadook
1:12:06
and lights out those were the three movies where after I watched it like I really don't want this to live in my
1:12:12
head anymore what's lights out so that's the one where there's this ghost who
1:12:18
Jesus [ __ ] Christ yeah yeah it's it's the spirit that only shows up when the
1:12:24
lights are turned off imagine you watched that movie and then it's bedtime you're like this this is
1:12:31
okay I don't even wanna I don't even want to have this screenshot up on my computer ever again no that's real scary
1:12:41
yeah well um yeah that's it exorcism you know isn't real because demons aren't real
1:12:46
but it's interesting that like every culture has it and that people still do it and there's times when you're like oh
1:12:52
there's been more during this time or less during this time in history and I think that's because of like what's
1:12:57
going on in the world like have we heard about exorcisms recently is it like being written down in popular culture so
1:13:03
like you might think you have to have it are you like on able or unwilling to understand pieces of mental illness you
1:13:09
know like um is that something or like physical illness where you're like why is this person acting this way because
1:13:15
like like also we've talked about like lobotomy isn't like one little jiggle in
1:13:20
your brain and you're a different person you know so like one little like weird thing happening in your head like you
1:13:25
could potentially completely change and that can be really scary for people around you you know
1:13:32
yeah yeah yeah it um I was thinking about the Michael Taylor possession case where he turned
1:13:39
into a demon but it was because they like believed it exactly but he ripped his wife's tongue
1:13:45
out and then clawed her eyes out and killed her like like he acted like that but it was because it was like no no
1:13:52
dude you you have a demon in you like you're actually possessed and it's like well if you tell someone enough [ __ ]
1:13:58
he's gonna soak into their psyche eventually yeah like what yeah exactly
1:14:03
like what is your brain what does your brain create you know so we're like I don't know I feel like our
1:14:09
my take away from that is be careful about you know things that
1:14:14
seem super crazy but if but also like do it makes you feel good like if you can fix yourself with the placebo I guess
1:14:20
you should you don't know that but if you do you could you know like it's like that's okay I mean no on demons but I'm
1:14:26
a yes I'm probably on ghosts that I don't know what it means okay so you say that Taylor you say that
1:14:33
but here's where like the rubber meets the road if I found the book and I found all the
1:14:39
little crucial months that I would need to summon a demon but I was like Taylor I want to do this but I'll only do it
1:14:45
with you and I'll only do it at your house would you let me do it no I don't think so there you go okay
1:14:52
because I wouldn't either because as much as I mock religion in spirituality I still don't want that in my life uh
1:14:59
totally well there's like I think also an Enfield I forgot there was a Ouija board as well so I'm like I don't want to do that either yeah exactly exactly
1:15:08
so okay so we we don't believe but we know we don't want to test either yeah
1:15:13
I'm not gonna like rock the boat I'm gonna stay into my room after this and we'll be fine yeah yeah
1:15:19
creepy creepy yeah I mean I think it's like the two of them
1:15:25
were just like so I guess there's also maybe there's a red flag of like working with your spouse and like spending so much time together
1:15:31
that you like start to really validate each other with anybody like if you're with someone you're just yesing each
1:15:37
other forever you know like things can get weird yeah the girlfriend they found their Niche
1:15:43
you know yeah they probably them alone and there were probably
1:15:48
added like multiples of billions of dollars in movies and books and oh yeah
1:15:53
economic activity absolutely yeah yeah so which one which one do we which
1:15:59
ones do we attribute so we attribute Amityville Insidious The Conjuring one two three which to your point that one's
1:16:05
called the devil made me do it which is an actual case where they legitimately tried to prove that the devil exists legally which is crazy
1:16:13
um the Enfield Poltergeist Poltergeist itself right
1:16:18
um Annabelle there was a like a 1990s
1:16:24
there was a TV movie in the 90s called The Haunted I've never seen that oh The
1:16:29
Haunting in Connecticut as well okay is them um yeah that's what I have definitely do
1:16:35
Annabelle Amityville Conjuring um hunting Connecticut there was a also that Navy the haunted that I've never
1:16:42
seen that I want to there was something they did at West Point that was fun that could definitely be a movie
1:16:47
I mean I think you could keep going yeah because I mean every one of those little trinkets that they stored in that
1:16:54
room which was a ton of stuff probably spin off into its own movie
1:16:59
yeah why not they always like zoom into that room in um in like the end of the
1:17:04
movies and it's like oh that that's who you say the the dancing monkey doll and that's where you see like another like little thing that makes noise or like
1:17:11
you know a clock and like a necklace and you're like oh my God but none freaked me out the numb was one that actually
1:17:17
did freak me out I did I did a visual when we were watching the nun in our Scary Movie Club but um I think the nun
1:17:23
looks like Prince William and that lightens it for me well you kind of ruined it for me then
1:17:29
I'll I have I have a screenshot I'll send it to you because I have pictures on side by side and I'm like that's exactly the same
1:17:35
same um but it is scary none so scary but like also okay oh my God I know we need
1:17:40
to go but like you know how you're like of course there's Victorian ghosts in an old Victorian house because women die there I feel like of course there's nuns
1:17:46
haunting places because like where are they gonna go yeah yeah their family abandoned them and they're celibate and
1:17:53
they have nobody oh we have one more thing there was a story in the book I'm so sorry where
1:17:59
he's like there was a ghost of a mom who died in a car accident and she had like six kids and she was Haunting the house because she didn't know she was dead and
1:18:06
so they did an exorcism to like get rid of have her go move on to the next level and Ed Warren was like that might seem
1:18:11
kind of cruel because she could live in this house with her family like as a ghost but what happens when the family dies and what happens like the Next
1:18:17
Generation in 200 years she's gonna like what haunt this house forever and I was like that's kind of cool yeah that's a
1:18:22
good point that's a thought yeah okay good for them yeah we need to go back
1:18:27
down a [ __ ] Rabbit Hole so one thing to note for people who are listening is that every October
1:18:33
Taylor our friend Jay myself and a whole list of other folks um do this thing we call calendar of horror where Jay for the most part
1:18:40
organizes this intricate spreadsheet of movies horror movies where you can watch
1:18:47
them or about them or whatever and every night we have a shared slack channel that we discuss we watch the movie and
1:18:52
discuss it ever since I moved to Texas it's been harder for me and I don't know how we're gonna do it this year now that Jay's on East Coast time and you're
1:18:58
awesome it's almost impossible now but we'll we'll do we can but I mean it probably won't be like an every night
1:19:04
thing like it had been maybe it'll be like a once a week thing but yeah I can't wait until like late anyway
1:19:09
because of the kids all the things but figured out but it's so fun and we've watched so many scary movies and it's the best we watched um deep blue sea
1:19:16
last night you mean one that's not a horror movie but it's still fun it's fun I like it awesome thanks for us that was
1:19:21
fun thank you Taylor I I want to see a horror movie now so thankful for the for
1:19:27
the warrants for that you know what I I they touch my life they actually touched my life because my fascination with
1:19:33
horror movies all can be rooted back to movies like Amityville I mean so
1:19:38
awesome you're like oh that works it's still scary it's so scary like again I I
1:19:43
probably won't ever Watch Sinister again because that movie really really actually I think that's totally fair
1:19:49
like that's when they don't watch again because I can think of it right now and think of like all the terrible things and be like oh my God yeah you've been a
1:19:56
lawnmower scene I know as I was thinking about I ordered the deck chairs that get pulled into the pool oh my God they made
1:20:02
a part two and the part two is actually still pretty good it's nothing compared the first one yeah but Ethan Hawk yeah
1:20:09
yeah horror movie recommendations and all the
1:20:15
things on social like subscribe give us five stars give us feedback comment commentary all that good stuff thank you
1:20:22
tell your friends and tell your friends we'll do it again next week we'll do it again next week thank you Taylor
1:20:28
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