We mentioned Leni in Episode 117 when we discussed the Berlin Olympics in 1936. She is the director who created the 'Olympia' film, breaking barriers as a woman and adding invaluable skills to the craft of filmmaking. Leni also denied and denied and denied that she was a part of the Nazi Propaganda Machine --- and she got to live to 101!! Today, we'll talk about how there is literally no way she didn't know (if you can go over Goebbels's head right to Hitler, you don't NOT know what is going on). Plus, her over half a century of denial of her responsibility in how her vision of the N*zis helped create a mass alibi for the German people post-war. Leni would say "Of what am I guilty??" When she died (in 2003!!!), Irene Runge, head of Berlin's Jewish Cultural Center said "You have to take responsibility for your past. She didn't. That is what people will remember about her."
We mentioned Leni in Episode 117 when we discussed the Berlin Olympics in 1936. She is the director who created the 'Olympia' film, breaking barriers as a woman and adding invaluable skills to the craft of filmmaking.
Leni also denied and denied and denied that she was a part of the Nazi Propaganda Machine --- and she got to live to 101!! Today, we'll talk about how there is literally no way she didn't know (if you can go over Goebbels's head right to Hitler, you don't NOT know what is going on).
Plus, her over half a century of denial of her responsibility in how her vision of the N*zis helped create a mass alibi for the German people post-war.
Leni would say "Of what am I guilty??"
When she died (in 2003!!!), Irene Runge, head of Berlin's Jewish Cultural Center said
"You have to take responsibility for your past. She didn't. That is what people will remember about her."
Sources:
https://www.zinnedproject.org/news/tdih/helen-keller-writes-to-germans/
Hi Friends! Our transcripts aren't perfect, but I wanted to make sure you had something - if you'd like an edited transcript, I'd be happy to prioritize one for you - please email doomedtofailpod@gmail.com - Thanks! - Taylor
Taylor: I feel like I woke up earlier than I wanted to
>> Taylor: In the matter of the people of State of California vs. Orenthal James Simpson, case number BA097. And so, my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your.
>> Farz: And we are back. I'm fully awake. Taylor, your eyes are so wide there.
>> Taylor: I'm trying to stay awake. I feel like that I forgot about the time change. Is this one's supposed to me up because. Yes. I feel like I woke up earlier than I wanted to. Right.
>> Farz: I think you're supposed to wake up later than you wanted to because it went forward in time.
>> Taylor: Right. But, like, if I woke up at nine, but it was really eight, I did not wake up at eight.
>> Farz: Uh-huh.
>> Taylor: You know what I mean?
>> Farz: Yeah. Yeah.
>> Taylor: I'm gonna just, like, pass out when it's still daytime sometime today, so it'll be.
>> Farz: Yeah, I had the same experience. I actually Woke up, like, 5:00 in the morning and then just, like, stayed away for like, two hours and then I fell asleep and then woke up immediately after that. And that's why I had to take a nap.
>> Taylor: I love that. yeah, yeah.
>> Farz: Midday naps.
>> Taylor: The best. The best. The best.
>> Taylor: Cool. Hi, Farz. Hi, everyone. Welcome to Doomed to Fail. We bring you history's most notorious disasters twice a week. And I am Taylor, joined by Fars, and we're talking women's history this month.
>> Farz: And, yeah, and I guess. I guess Nazis history. who would have thought?
>> Taylor: Who would have thought? but yes, I am also talking Nazis and. Oh, God. okay, calm down. And I'm in a fight with a Google Doc. Google Doc. Calm down. I, love the Google Doc document tabs. Do you use them?
>> Farz: I don't.
>> Taylor: It's my favorite thing. I actually put in a feature request for this, like, years ago because I really wanted it. So I have, like, a tab for my outline and a tab for my sources and a tab for my raw notes and a tab of stuff I wanted to mention at the end of the episode. I love it.
>> Farz: Google makes such intuitive products.
>> Taylor: Like, it's so, like, exactly what I wanted. Yeah, I don't know if that's always true. Remember the Google Wave? Remember that? It was like a workflow thing. It was really weird. Anyway, do you remember Google?
>> Farz: What the hell happened to that?
>> Taylor: I think it just. Who cared? No one cared anymore.
>> Farz: It's fair.
>> Taylor: There are just so many. But I do remember it. Right.
>> Farz: Right.
>> Taylor: Yeah. So anyway.
Hello. We are talking Nazis and women Nazis today
Hello. We are also talking Nazis and women Nazis today. I'm going to talk About Lenny Riefenstahl. Do you remember her? Oh, yeah.
>> Farz: Oh, my God. Yeah. She was a photographer.
>> Taylor: Yes. She's a director. She directed the movie Olympia that we talked about when we talked about the 1936 Berlin Olympics. Yep. so I read a book called Lenny the Life and Work of Leni Riefenstahl by Stephen Bach. And I also have a bunch of other little sources that I will share.
Taylor: Lenny Riefenstahl was a Nazi propagandist
And I want to start with her death because I mentioned this, I think, when I talked about her, about the Olympics, that, like, this got to live to be 101.
>> Farz: Taylor, not to correct you in mansplain here, but it's pronounced Laney, not Lenny, is it? Yeah, I know it's L, E I L E N I, but it's actually Laney.
>> Taylor: How do you know that?
>> Farz: Let's just say I have experience with that name.
>> Taylor: Okay, well, I'm gonna say Lenny because that's what I'm, already redoing.
>> Farz: Go. Go with your heart.
>> Taylor: So. So she died at 101 in 2002, which I think is bullshit. She got to live as long as she did. when she died, some of, these. Some of the headlines from around the world. Al Jazeera's headline was, Hitler's favorite Filmmaker is dead. The Guardians was Leni Riefenstahl, Hitler's favorite film propagandist dies at 101. And the new York Times was, Lenny Riefenstahl, filmmaker and Nazi propagandist dies at 101. So she's certainly not separated from the fact that she is a Nazi propaganda person. And like, the Nazi propaganda person, when she died, Irene Runga, who is the head of Berlin's Jewish Cultural center, said, quote, you have to take responsibility for your past. She didn't. That is what people will remember about her. So it was.
>> Farz: We know this wasn't someone that was, like, forced to do it or whatever.
>> Taylor: Like, okay, no, absolutely not. Absolutely not.
She is very calculating with what she remembers and what she shares
So we're going to talk about. She's an artist. And no one's denying that she's a good artist and that she, like, worked very hard, because she did. And her movies are very visually stunning. But she wanted to be praised for her artistry. But take no responsibility for the message of her, of her work. She is very calculating with what she remembers and what she shares. There's a lot of footage of her, obviously, like, from Nazi Germany and from much, much later. And so she's very calculating with her. With her image. And she lies a lot. Like, she lies about her Age. She lies about her connections, she lies about meetings she went to. And there's like, proof that she lied about those things. But she lies with, like, a lot of conviction. So if you talk to her, you'd be like, oh, little old lady who. She's like, oh, I didn't know anything was happening, but I don't believe her.
>> Farz: From every little lady or man could be a potential Nazi. So never let your guard down.
>> Taylor: Exactly. Exactly.
There was a process of denazification of Germany after World War II
So. And also this. I'm glad that we talked, had our conversation in the last episode, because this is what I brought up as well, because a lot of them said, you know, I was just following orders. And, you know, this is just. I was just kind of going along with the flow. And again, we didn't arrest the entire country of Germany after. After the. After World War II, but there was like a process of the denazification of Germany that is something that is like, culturally fascinating that we're not going to talk about today. But there is something, and I think this connects. There's a comedian named Johnny Bouca and at, ah, the Outright Carnival in Cologne. So at like a, A, show in Cologne in 1973. This is on YouTube and I'll share it. So it's 1973. So we're like, however many years after World War II has ended, he's doing this like, repeat joke while he's in front of like, a bunch of people. And the people that are in the audience are like, a little bit older. And he does like, when you do a big, like, cheers in German. if you're at like a beer garden, you go, zigga, zigga, zigga, hok, ho, ho. And then you hold your beer in the air. You were talking about, you do that. And then he does. Then he does, another one. He's like, that's like another, like repeat and repeat. And then he does the Zeke. And they all do Heil. All of them. And it's 1973. And they all like, gasp. But they like, it's like memory. Yeah, they're like, programmed to do it. And he was like, oh, I see we'll have a lot of old comrades in this. In this audience. And I think he was like, canceled hard after that because German Neely was like, you're not supposed to do that. But it was like, still in there, you know. Wait.
>> Farz: He didn't prompt them. He wasn't. He wasn't trying to get them to say, Gail, yes.
>> Taylor: He was. Okay. He absolutely prompted them.
>> Farz: Okay.
>> Taylor: He knew that. He knew they were doing. He prompted them, you know. But, But it's interesting because you're like, it doesn't. These people had to continue to exist, their lives, you know, even after everything that happened. And a lot of. Yes, a lot of them were like, passes. Passive, passive observers. But Lenny Reefish all. Was not. And. And something else that they said in the book that I read that I thought was really interesting is a lot of the mass alibi that people would use after this was over was Lenny's work. They would be like, I was charmed by Triumph of the Will. I was charmed by Olympia. I thought this was charming. And that was the person that Lenny was telling people about. You know, I get it.
>> Farz: I mean, if I found out that, you know, Steven Spielberg, after Jurassic park wanted me to do some evil shit, I'd do it just because he's that talented.
>> Taylor: That's fair. I'd be like, can I hang out with the animator? Dinosaurs be so fun. So Lenny was a willing participant. And she would have been a Nazi forever had that. Had the Nazis won. But she would never say that her films are propaganda. She would never apologize for any of the murders that she was involved in. She would just deny, deny, den, deny, deny. And like, she's a person who could go over Goebbels's back and talk directly to Hitler to get what she wanted. You can't say, those things and also say, I didn't know what was going on and I'm completely innocent. You know, they just say it can't be both. it's also rumored that. So, like, other artists at the same time. So I'm going to go back in a second. Talk about German cinema. Have you seen Metropolis or M, any of Fritz Lang's movies?
>> Farz: No.
>> Taylor: M is really good. It's like a murder mystery kind of. You know, it's serial killer, guy with the eyes. What's his name? So good. Whatever. so Goebbels had asked Fritz Lang to be head of the ufa, which was the German film company. And Fritz Lang left the next day because he was like, no. He, like, left her a minute. He's like, she's going to go down and going to get bad. You know? So, like, other filmmakers were able to leave. Lenny could have done that, but she didn't. She would say often quote, of what am I guilty? So never taking responsibility for what her work kind of instilled in folks.
Helena Bertha was born in Berlin in 1902. She had one younger brother named Heinz
So, okay, let's talk about her life. Her name was Helena Bertha. Amelie. Lenny riefenstahl. Born on August 22, 1902, in a shitty part of Berlin. So a good part of Berlin that is definitely not there anymore. But it was just like crappy time in apartments. Crappy kind of growing up. She had one younger brother named Heinz. Her father wanted her to follow him into business and like be a businesswoman, but she wanted to be a dancer. So her mom would sneak her into dance lessons and have her do like more art stuff. She would love to. Theater. She did some films in the 20s where she's naked because it was like the genre was like ancient Roman movies, but like silent German films.
>> Farz: Right.
>> Taylor: So there's a lot like nudity. She, This is. Yeah, this is the beginning of German cinema where we get some great stuff. Like last October we watched the cabinet of Dr. Calgary, which was great. And like Metropolis, the original Nosferatu, like all that like cool German cinema is happening in like the early 1900s and like in the 20s, like post between wars and the. Between wartime. And there's also some of her contemporaries who were actors. Like Lenny started off as, who were. Who did get to the United States, like Marlene Dietrich, you know. So it was like very famous German women who left Germany to go to Hollywood and became successful. But that was not. Not her. She did a. She was a dancer. She like, did a dance show, kind of on her own that she fell into when someone else got injured. She kind of took their spot and she did a little bit of traveling. She did this like kind of weird inter dance that people either like loved or hated. It was kind of in the middle of that, but she only did it for a few months and then she got injured and she didn't. Wasn't able to do that to dance anymore, like professionally. And she's still pretty young at this point. She, started thinking about doing movies and started like seeing more movies. She was in a film that is lost. Some of the film is lost, you know, it just like doesn't exist anymore. But there was one where people were doing exercises that she was a part of. So it was like this like very German calisthenics thing.
>> Farz: It feels German.
>> Taylor: Yeah, it feels very German. And when I read that in the book, I was like, oh, that sounds exactly like Olympia. Because I don't know if, if you'll remember Olympia, which we'll talk about later, her Olympics movie starts off like, of like people in ancient Greece, like throwing the discus, you know. So it's these like beautiful hot bods with barely any clothes on being sportsmen. You can see what I'm doing with my hot bod.
>> Farz: Yeah, that's exactly how you do it.
>> Taylor: Like. Oh, Taylor. Like a Greek sculpture right now. It's too bad this is an audio medium otherwise. So, So I was like, oh, that sounds like Olympia. And the next sentence was, she would deny that this. That this was anything to do with Olympia. And I'm like, yeah, it's like, obviously the same thing, but, like, whatever you can say, like, I was inspired. But she didn't. But, she wouldn't say that later. She also loved mountain movies, so this was like a new. A new things. Obviously, movies are brand new, so these actually do sound very, very difficult to make. And it's. It took a lot for her to make them. But there was a movie called Mountain of Destiny that she, really loved. It was shot on location in the Alps, like, in the cold. Like, not on a soundstage where, like, you would, like, throw asbestos, at people pretending it to be snow. Like, literally in the snow in the mountains. She liked Mountain of Destiny so much, she, like, finagled her way into meeting the director, Arnold Fanck, and she said, he. She said that he said he wrote a film for her right away. And he said, no, I had a script. I just gave it to her, like, whatever. So she building. Yeah, myth building. Exactly. So she did another movie, called the White Hell of Pitts Palu, which is the mountain, about a honeymooning couple. She plays the wife, and they meet a man who is a doctor whose wife had died in an avalanche. The doctor wants to go out and find his wife's body, and they go with him. And they also get, like, stuck in the snow. And this was, like, really hard work. You can see how, like, they're. They're not acting. They're cold, you know, like, there's snow in their hair. she got a. From her time in the mountain, she got a lifelong bladder infection. And I wrote good. But she,
>> Farz: So that was like, they're not acting. They're actually cold, hungry, starving.
>> Taylor: Exactly.
>> Farz: It actually was an avalanche.
>> Taylor: Yeah. Like, they actually. Like, their fingers are almost frozen off. Like, it's actually bad. And then later, people.
She gets funding for a film in 1932 called the Blue Light
To that point, people started to care about it less when they realize that you could emulate it on a soundstage. You didn't have to do that. Some people were, like, less impressed. They're like, oh, it must be a soundstage. And she's like, no, I was really on this fucking mountain, you guys. They're like, meh.
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: Not impressed. So she was doing that, but then she was like, I'm sure that I can do this on my own. Like, I don't need a director. I can direct and I can act and I can do everything. Which is cool because she's a woman during this time and one of the first, like, really famous women directors. And she gets funding for a film in 1932 called the Blue Light. So she, like, wrote and directed this film and starred in it. And it was about, a poor girl who is, like, hated by villagers and finds her solace in like a blue grotto, like a place in like a cave. She played the girl even though she was like 30. So people were a little bit like, okay, she was looking like a 15 year old. But, it had mixed reviews. It won a silver medal at the Venice Film Festival, which was started during Mussolini's, regime in, in Italy.
>> Farz: No fun.
>> Taylor: They got bad reviews from the, quote, liberal newspapers. And by liberal we mean Jewish. And she said after her reviews came out, like, the, the really far right papers loved it. Hitler loved it. but she said about the liberal bad reviews that she was getting, she said, once Hitler is in charge, we won't have these problems anymore. You know, she was right. Yeah. Because they were no longer able to give her bad reviews.
>> Farz: Right.
>> Taylor: yeah. And she. But she, like, obviously knew it. Two Jewish people were like the top billing people who helped her make it. When she re released it in 1938, she just deleted their names. So, like, she knew enough to say, like, you know, the reason I'm getting better views is because, you know, the Jews are against me personally.
>> Farz: So what year was that?
>> Taylor: That she re released it in 1938, but she originally released it in 1932.
>> Farz: And the Nuremberg laws were 34, I think.
>> Taylor: So.
>> Farz: Yeah. So, yeah, if she released it after that, of course you can say the names off of it.
>> Taylor: Yeah. So now. Exactly.
So I'm gonna talk about some of the stuff that you just talked about
So I'm gonna talk about some of the stuff that you just talked about. Hitler is in charge now. He became Chancellor on January 30, 1933. Concentration camps are going to be up in like six weeks. Like, it all happens really fast. President, Hindenburg dies on August 2, 1934. And that's when Hitler combined the offices and just expected never to have an election again.
>> Farz: Yep.
>> Taylor: Yeah. So she's trying to live her life under this new regime, still thinking that she is an artist, you know, being like, oh, I'm an artist, and just kind of ignoring the politics. But she's not ignoring the politics. She's saying that she did and that she didn't know what happened. But, like, people have memories and have written down seeing her on a train reading Mein Kampf and fucking loving it. Like, writing in the margins, being like, this is the best book I've ever read. Saying things like, you guys will see, Hitler is totally right in this book. He's so right. He's such a genius, you know?
>> Farz: Yeah.
Helen Keller knew about concentration camps in 1933, according to Lenny
>> Taylor: and books are being burned at this time. And this is, like, an interesting side note that, I. Oh. That I wanted to talk about with you is one of the first books that were burned were books by Helen Keller because of her socialism. Interesting.
>> Farz: Yes, that makes sense.
>> Taylor: So she wrote a book to, like, German students in general who were burning books on. She, wrote a letter to them on May 9, 1933. And Helen said, quote, history has taught you nothing if you think you can kill ideas. Tyrants have tried to do that often before, and the ideas have risen up in their might and destroyed them. And then she also said, quote, do not imagine that your barbarities to the Jews are unknown here. And that was in 1933. So, like, really? Yeah. So, like, the U. S, like you were saying last episode, like, the US Government is going to pretend they didn't know, and FDR is going to pretend he didn't know. But people knew. Helen Keller knew. She can't see her here. She knew in 1933.
>> Farz: Well, I was going off of the last podcast, Joseph Mangle episode where they were, like, normal Germans were, like, working in Berlin, going into office buildings and, like, doing normal life. Like, their point was, like, those people aren't, like, looped in on, like, what's happening in Auschwitz, like, in Poland. And so, probably. I mean, I assume that was the case, but apparently if she wrote that in 1933, then probably not. So.
>> Taylor: Yeah. And I don't think she means, like, full on constitution camps, but she does mean, like, the, you know, no businesses, all that stuff.
>> Farz: You know, concentration camps in 33.
>> Taylor: Yeah, I think it was. They were, like, starting, you know.
>> Farz: Really?
>> Taylor: Yeah. Started in. In six weeks is what I read. You can look it up.
>> Farz: Yeah, you look it up.
>> Taylor: So Lenny was getting excited about this. She loved Minecamps, so she obviously wanted to meet Hitler. That was, like, her next step. She saw him speak.
>> Farz: 1933 was Dachau.
>> Taylor: Yeah. Had been real.
>> Farz: Well, that was for. So the camps had different purposes. One of them were just, like, holding camps. And then there was, like, the extra. The Final Solution part of it was.
>> Taylor: Much later yeah, yeah, but actually, let me talk, I'm going to talk about that because that's a, a thing that gets her off from really being in trouble is that difference between the type of camp. So I'll talk about that in a second.
Lenny saw Hitler speak in 1932 and made a propaganda film about him
So she saw Hitler speak in 1932. And in her memoir that she wrote in like the 1980s, she said, quote, I had an almost apocalyptic vision that I was never able to forget. It seemed as if the earth's surface were spreading out in front of me like a hemisphere that suddenly splits apart in the middle, spewing out an enormous jet of water so powerful that it touched the sky and shook the earth. That's about her seeing Hitler speak and how like, incredible she found him. Her, dad became an official member of the Nazi party like we were talking about, but Lenny never did. She didn't really have to though, because she was like, in all the rooms and around everyone. She did, though, have to submit the paperwork showing her heritage that you had to do to be able to like, have these jobs. And it's probable that her maternal grandmother was Jewish. But Lenny lied on her papers. Yeah, M. I mean, because she wouldn't have been able to do anything that she did if she hadn't.
>> Farz: I would, I would have been like, yeah, I'm like Austro Hungarian. Like, I mean, of course.
>> Taylor: Yeah. So since Hitler had seen the Blue Light, he thought it was a great example of Aryan womanhood, whatever that means. And he gave her the the like, commission to make a movie called Der Sigdasklaubens, which means the victory of faith and which is the 1933 Nuremberg rally, which is like the fifth Nazi rally that was like in Nuremb, like a really big deal. So she got to, got to tape it. It's an hour long propaganda film. It's the first one where they had like the stage design to have like the huge eagle, you know, and like really like make it, make this, the. The set design imposing for like this rally. You know, there's a, there's a ton of people in their uniforms, are all very excited. And she premiered her, her movie in Berlin on December 1, 1933. So this film is interesting because it showcases Hitler's close relationship with Ernst Rohm, who was head of the SA at the time. They're standing next to each other in, in the film a lot. They're kind of whispering to each other, they're talking. They were like. They worked together a ton in 1934 during the night of the Long Knives where Hitler Killed a bunch of his like internal enemies. I think you mentioned maybe last episode.
>> Farz: you know, part of it.
>> Taylor: Yeah. Rome was killed and he was killed potentially because he was like very clearly gay, like very out as, as a gay man. And he was at his hotel and Hitler and his, his other guys like stormed the hotel. Hitler woke Rome up and said, you're being arrested for treason. Even though the treason was not real, they just like wanted him out of there. So they ended up, you know, but all the people that were like with Rome there ended up being, being killed. They gave Rome the option to kill himself. And he said, quote, if I am to be killed, let Adolph do it himself. So they shot him. He didn't, he didn't choose to take his own life.
>> Farz: Hitler didn't do it.
>> Taylor: No.
>> Farz: Got it.
>> Taylor: No, someone else did. So because of that, because the film the Victory of Faith was showcasing that relationship between Hitler and Rome. Then the Hitler didn't want anybody to see it anymore, so he had all the copies destroyed. We have it because Lenny had her own copy sent to the UK to be hidden there. And they also found a copy in the, in the East German film archives in the, in the like late 1980s. But otherwise you wouldn't have it. But she sent her own copy of the film to friends in, in the UK to keep it safe.
>> Farz: interestingly, she would be like, do something that Hill didn't want happen. Well, I guess it's. Yeah. Okay. That's her movie. So.
>> Taylor: Right. Because she's like, I'm an artist. What do I know exactly is her thing. So now her, her and Hitler are like friends. Like Goebbels, who obviously is like the Minister of propaganda. He hates her. They like don't. They like get in fights all the time. She says it's because he tries to like put advances on her and like have an affair with her. Because he, despite, despite looking like a rat faced piece of, he still is very popular and has a bunch of affairs girls and. But, but Lenny said no to Goebbels and then she said that's why he hates her. But in his journals that came out in like the 70s and 80s, he was like, I like her, it's fine. So like maybe she like exaggerated that relationship as well. but we'll like, we'll never really know. But Goebbelt himself was very much like, I am the Minister of Propaganda, we are making propaganda. Like we are doing this to change people's minds. Like that was, he wasn't like not saying that. And Lenny was like, I'm an artist. I'm making art. But we see her, if you see her photos, like, she's in pictures with Himmler, with Hess, like, with all of the. With Hitler, with Goebbels. Like, she knew everybody. She was up there in, like, the top rooms. So she decided to make the next film that Hitler had her, like, commission for, which is the one that is really famous, which is the Triumph of the Will. So that's like his, like, huge, huge propaganda film. It was another rally in Nuremberg. She was like, oh, no, I can't do it. But then she did it because she got paid a shit ton of money to do it. And she filmed 61 hours of footage. There were over a million Nazis there. She edited it down into one hour and 10 minutes. And it's called the greatest propaganda film of all time, which I think it should be. It's, like, really incredible if you're just judging it for the artistry, which is, like, nearly impossible. Like, it's really captivating.
>> Farz: Have you seen it?
>> Taylor: Yeah. Like, it's, you know, big, wide shots of. Of the. Of the, of the crowd. There's a shot of Hitler coming down in an airplane. There's like, you know, obviously, like, if you've seen, like, the videos of him doing, like, his, like, really big speeches, like, a lot of them are from Triumph of the Will.
>> Farz: Yeah.
Lenny Reevenshahl denies any attempts to create Nazi propaganda
>> Taylor: And so it is the film that is the Mass Alibi film that I said earlier. People would be like, we saw this and we were like, in, you know, like, it's part of the reason we, like, we're just going along to get along. We were just following orders. Like, we saw this happen, and a lot of it is because of the image that Lenny helped create when she did this. So in 1930, in 1993, there, was a documentary about her called the Wonderful Horrible Life of Lenny Reevenshahl. And she denied any attempts to create Nazi propaganda. And she was disgusted that Triumph of the Will was used that way. You're like, girl, that's what it was. Yeah.
>> Farz: Trying to find any part that can even remotely be plausible deniability.
>> Taylor: And I know she's lying because she's a lying liar, but also because she wrote a letter to Hitler after the movie was made and said, quote, the film's impact as German propaganda is greater than I could have imagined. And your image, my furor is always applauded.
>> Farz: Jeez.
>> Taylor: Yeah. So during this film, for the next, for, I guess during, like, the entire Third Reich regime, She's trying to make, a movie called Tiefland, which is sort of her passion project. It's based after an opera that was famous in Germany, and she found funding in Spain, but it got canceled and it was finally filmed in the 40s and was released in 1954. When it was released, it was the Guinness Book of World Records film for the longest production time for a film to feel like you get a pass if you, like, had an idea about it at the beginning of World War II and then like, you finish it after. I feel like that doesn't count as production, but whatever. So, she cast herself as the female lead and she was 40 with a lover who was 23. And she @ least had. She at least. It was like. That was a little weird, a little embarrassing.
>> Farz: She said that?
>> Taylor: Yeah, she said that because she definitely, like, was like, too old to play that part. But it wasn't just her in the film. She needed extras. So they filmed it in a place. I, think they filmed it in Poland, where she pulled from the local Romani people, and she picked children and adults of Roma and Sinti background who were in Nazi collection camps. So that's. That's the. The word collection versus concentration. So in a collection camp, essentially just like a war camp, like, there's no expectation that the people are going to be like, mass murdered. They are just in there to like, be prisoners of war. So she pulled people out of this camp to be extras. In her. In her movie, she would say that she didn't know that they were going to be killed later eventually. Like, she didn't know that was a thing and that it wasn't forced labor, even though it definitely was, because it's like, you have to do this or go to this, like, camp. It's like terrible prison camp. And she would. She lived in like this fantasy world where she would. Telling people, telling these extras, like, they could be stars and they can go to Hollywood and like, doing this stuff to them. And then like, immediately after the film's done, they go back to this collection camp. You know, nothing good is going to happen. A lot of them were sent to Auschwitz and died there. Like, that is in. In the thing. She insisted afterwards that she saw every single one of those extras after the war. But that isn't true because we know they died. You know, we know a lot of them died. So she was tried for this because she had, you know, worked with people and like, put. Sent them directly to. To the camp after she worked, after they, like, worked on her film, which was, like, forced labor, labor, all those things. And she got off, because of that word, collection versus concentration. So there was a documentary made about her in 1982 by a woman named Nina Galafitz. And she said that Lenny knew they were going to be killed, but because they didn't go to a concentration camp, they went to a collection camp. They. They couldn't prove that she knew that that was going to happen. So Lenny sued. And that movie was never shown anywhere. Like, they just. Like that she killed that movie. Nina, the director, could have recut it, but she didn't. She didn't have the budget to do it. She just didn't. And she just, like, left it because she was like, I think Lenny knew. I think that she knew this was going to happen. in 2002, a Roma group, which, like, the Roma Romani people are like the gypsy people of that area, and she. In 2002, a Roma group sued her for denying the extermination of the Romani. And she was forced to apologize because she's going to have, like, tons of lawsuits about how involved or not she was. She's 100 years old during this. During this one, and she loses, and she says, quote, I regret that Cinti and Roma had to suffer during the period of National Socialism. It is known today that many of them were murdered in concentration camps, which is, like, not an apology.
>> Farz: Right.
>> Taylor: You know? so Tiefland is in constant production, and she's doing more work for the Nazis. And the stuff she made was obviously being financed by the Reich. Like, she pretends that she didn't know that she was the only person in Germany not to know that. She's like, oh, where do you think the National Film association gets his money from in Nazi Germany? From the government, which is Nazis. And she's not stupid, you know, so if she's like, oh, I had no idea I was being funded by Nazis, like, no, I don't believe you.
So the next thing she does is the Olympia, which is a groundbreaking film
So the next thing she does is the Olympia, which is the 1936 Olympics movie, which is also really groundbreaking for film. And I feel like. Did you ever watch any of these clips? I mean, it was a long time ago, but. Yeah, but, like, you know those Jesse Owens jumping clips?
>> Farz: I mean, like, pretty much any World War II documentary, you've seen Olympia as part of it.
>> Taylor: Yeah, exactly. And, like, a lot of it, she was like, the first one. The first people to put cameras on rails, to, like, move them along. And a lot of it is, like, stuff that is, you know, really still used in sports photography and stuff. So, like, that was happening. and it won more Venice Film Festival awards. and, you know, people really, like, enjoyed. Enjoyed that film as well. But it was also very much Nazi propaganda, which. Because we've. We've seen that and we know that she, went to America for. For, like, a trip. She went right before Kristallnacht, which is the night that, like, they destroyed all the Jewish businesses in. In Germany. And, while she was in America, I guess she had a meeting with Ford.
>> Farz: Henry Ford.
>> Taylor: Henry Ford and also Walt Disney. So he showed her Fantasia.
>> Farz: So I think the Walt Disney one is like a work meeting.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: Because you're in the same.
>> Taylor: Henry Forwell was like, what's up?
>> Farz: What's up?
>> Taylor: Yeah, Exactly. So in 1939, she was back in Germany. She was a war correspondent. there is a photo that I want to put a pin in about her of her being upset at this time. So there's something. She's in Poland.
>> Farz: I saw this.
>> Taylor: Yeah, yeah. So, okay. So I want to put a pin in that photo because in. In Poland there is a massacre where a bunch of Jews are killed. And that photo was like. She reacts to seeing their bodies and she looks very upset. part of the. What happened before that is she was filming something and there were people in this, in the shot, and she said, get rid of the Jews. And they, like. So they took them and killed them. So she's saying that she didn't know they were Jewish and she didn't know that was going to happen. And she has a picture where she looks really upset. so put a pin in that and we'll come back to it later.
So in 1940, when Hitler stormed Paris, she sent him a telegram
So in 1940, when Hitler stormed Paris, she sent him a telegram that was, quote, with indescribable joy, deeply moved and filled with burning gratitude. We share with you, my Fuhrer. You're in Germany's greatest victory. The entry of German troops into Paris, you exceed anything. Human imagination has a power to conceive, achieving deeds without parallel in the history of mankind. How can we ever thank you? Like, you don't have to be that.
>> Farz: It's a little over the top.
>> Taylor: Yeah, it's a lot. So Goebbels also probably hated her because she was spending so much of the money of the money on her films, and on her war correspondence and all the things that she was doing. Hitler, said, oh, Grubel said, it's impossible to work with this wild woman because she was, like, exhausting to him. at some Point. She does have a personal life. Her brother dies in the Oast front. She gets married and divorced. She has a lot of lovers, you know, like. Like you'd expect from someone like this. She, So when the war. So the war ends, she's, like, not there, like, with Hitler and girls, like, in the bunker at the very, very end. Do you ever watch a Downfall?
>> Farz: A Downfall is great.
>> Taylor: It's so good. I think. I think everything about it all week because, like, the parts were like, Ava Brown is, like, having the party, you know, while Berlin is, like, burning.
>> Farz: Was it Goebbels wife that killed the kids? Yeah, that part that was like, the most insane I've talked about before.
>> Taylor: It was. I just was like, I know that Frau Goebbels is a bad person, but holy. You know.
>> Farz: Yeah, it's like next level evil.
>> Taylor: Yeah. Yeah. So. So she wasn't there when they all. When they all killed themselves and all of them died. So she was arrested. So she was with friends, like, other. I think like an old. An old boyfriend and his wife. She's in their apartments. And when the war ended, the wife said, get out of here, you Nazi. Like, she couldn't fucking wait to say that.
>> Farz: Yeah, she was holding on to that one for a minute.
>> Taylor: Yeah, she had thought that for years and was just very excited to say, you know, get out of here. she ended up being arrested by a. An American named Bud Schulberg. And Bud is the person who wrote on the Waterfront and won an Academy Award for that. He became, like, a famous American director and writer. but he was in the Navy, and he arrested her and he said, quote, she gave me the usual song and dance. She said, of course, you know, I'm really so misunderstood. I'm not political. You're like, you cannot be political. She said over. She said over and over again that she had no idea she was in different types of prison camps from 1945 to 1948 and eventually on house arrest. So she was, like, waiting to stand trial, for. For her films. She was tried four times for her Nazi sympathies, but was never charged. So she was never accused of anything officially under the law. M. She would win over 50. Libel against her, which to me shows that she's, like, smart and, like, knows the law and knows those semantics.
>> Farz: Yeah, that's what I was gonna. That's what there. There's this category of, like, humans I'm learning, unfortunately, learning more and more about, which is, like, they just know exactly which way to Go when it comes to legal stuff to avoid certain pitfalls and they just succeed off how cunning and stink like they are.
>> Taylor: Yeah, exactly. So she said later that her biggest regret in life was meeting Hitler. She said, quote, it was the biggest catastroph catastrophe of my life. Until the day I die, people will keep saying, Lenny is a Nazi. And I'll keep saying, but what did she do? You know, like, her films weren't enough to get her in jail. So she's like, I didn't do anything wrong. You know, when her films were just obviously this like, propaganda machine. So she obviously lives for a very long time. She keeps making movies. Triumph of the Will is going to be banned in Germany. It might still be banned like you. So you can watch it obviously for a very long time. She re edits it for release elsewhere. So I think even, like, I don't even. I don't know which. You could probably see both versions. There's a version that's like less Nazi and one that is more Nazi. And even like the fact that she was able to do that shows that she knew it. You know what I mean?
>> Farz: I think she owns the rights to it or state owns the rights to it.
>> Taylor: Yeah, probably. she traveled to Africa, and she made a photography book about the Nuba tribe in Sudan. so she had photos of them, like, naked, like, doing very similar to Triumph, to Olympia, but it was with, Africans. And you know, she was accused in that of like the silk, still continuing the fascist aesthetic of like the, you know, the, the perfect body, that sort of thing. So it was, at the best, it was exploitative. she photographed people all over the world, like Mick Jagger, Siegfried and Roy, obviously. Like, she knew them because I mean to say, I say that just because I feel like all German people knew Sickfried and Roy personally.
>> Farz: Let's not Sigfur. We're not Nazis.
She lied about her age to be able to scuba dive
>> Taylor: No, but I wonder if their parents were probably.
>> Farz: Probably actually,
>> Taylor: Well, I mean, also when you say, like Michael Schumacher, remember you were like, what were his parents doing. Doing during the 40s? It's like, oh, because it was.
>> Farz: Yeah, because what it was like there was literally the. One of the most famous people in the world and there's nothing about his parents.
>> Taylor: Exactly.
>> Farz: Like, they can't be good.
>> Taylor: Exactly. So she was a guest of honor at the 1970s, that six Olympics in Montreal. She, also made some films underwater that you can see. So she filmed a coral and stuff underwater. she had a partner who was like her lover and her Cameraman he was 40 years younger than her. They met when she was 60 and he was 20 and they spent a long time together. He. So the film that she wrote, some. One critic called them a screensaver, which made me laugh because it kind of looks like a screensaver, but it's like underwater things. She also lied about her, her age to be able to scuba dive. So she said she was like in her 80s and she said that she was younger, she'd get the certification. And at some point someone in. In where? In Latham's Quarterly. I don't know what that is, but a writer, said that her deep sea diving offered her an escape, which was, quote, a metaphor for the flight from responsibility. Since the piece, the past ceases to exist for a little while under the silence of the ocean, you know, shouldn't happen. So it's 1993. I cannot believe she's still alive. The. There's a film about her called the Wonderful Horrible Life of Lenny Riefish Doll that I mentioned. And there's a director, his name is Mueller, he agrees to do a documentary about her, but a lot of people were mad at him. Like he. A lot of people turned this down. She definitely tried to make films under a pseudonym and other directors, like, they didn't want to work with her, obviously, you know. And so finally this guy Mueller does make this documentary about her and he ends up being a three hour long documentary. But while they're filming it, she has like moments of like terrible anger. Like if things aren't perfect, she like yells at everyone. She has to go back to her dressing room to calm down. And there we can assume that like, she was like that a lot, really.
>> Farz: You know, Nazi had temper tantrums.
>> Taylor: Yes, exactly, Exactly. Later she goes back to Sudan. So when she's like 99 years old, she goes back to Sudan to meet with the people that she had met the first time she went. So it was like 40 years later. And I want to pull that pin out of that picture of her crying when she said that she saw those, those bodies from 1939. Because when she's back in Sudan, she's with another director who's, who is filming her reuniting with this Nuba tribe of people. And a lot of the people aren't the same people that were there when she was there, because it's been 40 years, you know. So she finally finds like an old member of the tribe and she sees them and she's like, I remember them. And she starts crying and she's like, I Remember all of this? And she, like, gets really excited and, like, does these things and she looks and the director was not filming that. And she throws a tantrum and then she does it again. She does the crying again, she does all of the emotions again. And, like, she's 99 years old, but she's, like, sharp enough to do that, you know? Damn. which makes me not believe her other stuff.
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: Even interesting. So, so, so this is crazy. After that, they had to leave Sudan, obviously, because Sudan's in the middle of a war constantly, and they had to leave in a hurry on a helicopter, and the helicopter got shot down. She was in a helicopter crash at the age of 99. And she survived. Like, the devil works hard sometimes.
>> Farz: Yeah, no kidding.
>> Taylor: So she had some broken ribs, but, like, she didn't die. She was on morphine for the rest of her life. But, I mean, she's 99 years old. You can have morphine every day for 99.
>> Farz: Yeah, I'm definitely going to start chain smoking cigarettes and doing Heroin when I'm 99 years old.
>> Taylor: 100%.
>> Farz: And we'll do it together.
>> Taylor: Yeah. So she, dies just after her 101st birthday on September 8, 2003, in Germany. after, her death. There's another doc that came out last year called Riefenshaw that I haven't been able to see. It's only in German. I couldn't find it. But I do want to see that, Jodi. Jodie Foster was supposed to play her in a film she was writing and directing in the 90s. And Lenny was like, no, it should be Sharon Stone. but that movie didn't pan out, unfortunately.
Taylor: I have another World War II story next week. Uh, Nazis this time
so I think the last thing that I have to say is a quote from film journalist Sandra Smith from the Independent. And she said, quote, opinions will be divided between those who see her as a young, talented and ambitious woman caught up in the tide of events, which she did not fully, and those who believe her to be cold and opportunist, propagandist and a Nazi by association, which is where I. Where I land.
>> Farz: Yeah. I mean, I can see why. If you are in the in group and it's your decade to shine, you're like, I'll sacrifice my morals, 10 years of morals for 101 years of, I don't know, that sweet Nazi money.
>> Taylor: Like, yeah. Oh, no, I'm m sure she also had, like, gold hidden somewhere, you know?
>> Farz: Yeah. Probably ripped out of people's teeth or mouths.
>> Taylor: Yeah, exactly.
>> Farz: are we gonna cover any women that Aren't horrible or just.
>> Taylor: Yes, I have a really good one next week. I do. I have two. Helen color was not horrible. And I have two others.
>> Farz: Okay, fine.
>> Taylor: I have two. I have two. I have one. I have another World War II story next week. That is great. That I bet you haven't heard. So I'm excited.
>> Farz: All right. Yeah, looking forward to it.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: sweet. Well, thanks for sharing. fun that we both covered. Nazis this time. Yeah.
>> Taylor: Look at us.
>> Farz: That rarely happens, but luckily we don't overlap beyond that. sweet. Anything else, Taylor?
>> Taylor: I do. I have something from Nadine. She was. She said she was yelling at us out loud while she's listening to us, because, of course, Helen Keller knew socialism if she died in 1968. The Russian, Chinese, and Cuban revolutions had all happened by then, and it was well into the cold war. So I feel like we said that she maybe didn't. Hadn't seen social socialism, but she did. And, also, she said, but Mark Twain probably didn't because he died in 1910. So. Thank you, Nadine. Thank you for the. Back into that.
Taylor: I said matt Groening is the founder of the Simpsons
and then also, I have terrible news from Morgan. She sent me a voice message. You know how I said matt Groening is the founder of the Simpsons?
>> Farz: did you say that? I thought you said he's like a writer or something. But maybe he's a founder.
>> Taylor: Founder, Writer. That's not. That's not the word that we're looking at. So it's spelled. Oh, my God. Why? I can't go on the Internet anymore. It's not working. Hold on. I can't type. Oh, this is the worst. Mat. Groening spelled G, R, O, E, N, I, N, G. But it's pronounced Matt Greening.
>> Farz: I thought it was graining.
>> Taylor: Either way, it should be Groening because it's the O over the thing. And she said raining. Or what did you say raining? either way, it's not the way it's written.
>> Farz: I know. I also told you that this woman's name is not Lenny. And you're like, I'm pretty sure you love it is.
>> Taylor: I just listened to a whole audiobook about her. It is Lenny.
>> Farz: Okay. All right.
>> Taylor: Well, I mean, the people can have the name spelled the same and pronounced differently.
>> Farz: That is probably. Probably true. Is this the horrible news you're speaking? Speaking of that you learned that his name is not. Groaning.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: Okay. Thank you for clarifying that, Nadine.
>> Taylor: Thank you. That was Morgan. Thank you, Morgan.
>> Farz: Morgan. Sorry.
>> Taylor: yeah, so that's it. That's my news. But thank you everyone for engaging and emailing us again. If you want a free sticker, send me your email or mailing address. Doomed to fail. Pod Gmail.com if you email me, I'll email you back.
>> Farz: If you want to send it, if you want us to eventually send it via email, just write to us and let us know and we can come up with like a, NFT for doom to fail. And we can send it to you digitally to your wallet.
>> Taylor: Totally nft.
>> Farz: I have no idea how to do any of these things and I don't know what most of the words that I said mean.
>> Taylor: NFT is just like a screenshot that costs a million dollars for some reason. So we can send you a screenshot of our sticker whenever you want. Those are free.
>> Farz: I think it's technically just a money laundering apparatus. a vehicle, but I think so too.
>> Taylor: I think so too.
>> Farz: yeah, so, so, well, Taylor, thank you for sharing. yes, again, write to us@dunefallpod.com.com follow us on the socials. Please tell your friends, your family partners, whatever you got going on. tell them about us so we can grow, expand and become unbelievably wealthy and rich and successful and famous.
>> Taylor: Perfect. Perfect pitch.
>> Farz: Thanks, Jayla.
>> Taylor: Thanks everyone.