At this point, maybe if we talk about plane crashes enough, the irony would be TOO intense if we actually died in one! Let's go back 10 years to March 2015, when Germanwings pilot Andreas Lubitz was absolutely not in the right headspace to fly a plane. We dig into the mental health of pilots, why some of them don't get help, and why those who do are stigmatized. Andreas, for example, was on a new medication, coupled with his history of depression, he took over the cockpit and crashed Germanwings flight 9525 on purpose. It's awful.
At this point, maybe if we talk about plane crashes enough, the irony would be TOO intense if we actually died in one! Let's go back 10 years to March 2015, when Germanwings pilot Andreas Lubitz was absolutely not in the right headspace to fly a plane. We dig into the mental health of pilots, why some of them don't get help, and why those who do are stigmatized. Andreas, for example, was on a new medication, coupled with his history of depression, he took over the cockpit and crashed Germanwings flight 9525 on purpose. It's awful.
Hi Friends! Our transcripts aren't perfect, but I wanted to make sure you had something - if you'd like an edited transcript, I'd be happy to prioritize one for you - please email doomedtofailpod@gmail.com - Thanks! - Taylor
Taylor: I'm happy and not angry. I'm fine. Yes, you're happy. You just vented, and now you feel better
>> Taylor: In the matter of the people of State of California vs. Orenthal James Simpson, case number BA097. And so, my fellow Americans, ask not.
>> Farz: What your country can do for you. Boom. We are live, Taylor, and we are happy and not angry.
>> Taylor: I'm fine.
>> Farz: Yes, you're happy.
>> Taylor: You're you. You just vented, and now you feel better.
>> Farz: That's true. That's true. Taylor did hear a little bit of event. And the event is over. And now we're going to think of positive things, and we're going to cover things that are doomed to fail, which is going to be very positive. Which tees up our intro. Very well, Taylor.
Doomed to Fail brings you history's most notorious disasters and epic failures
>> Taylor: Hello. Welcome to Doomed to Fail. We bring you history's most notorious disasters and epic failures twice a week. I am Taylor, joined by Fars. And I'm laughing because I posted about our episode about Friar Diego delanda who burned all the Mayan books on Instagram. And we get comments from people who, like, don't have any followers and don't have any pictures. I'm like, what is this? Like, who could possibly be. But someone was like, one of those people was like, this is not a disaster or a failure. And I was like, actually, it's both. And we do plenty of episodes that are neither.
>> Farz: But was it a real person or.
>> Taylor: I don't think so. I don't know what that means. I think it's probably, like, a weird Bob, but, like, why would a bot do that? I don't know.
>> Farz: I mean, if it's someone. Yeah. I'm fully convinced that the rest of the world is trying to sow chaos.
>> Taylor: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly. So I'm like. Of all of our examples, that actually is one. And a lot of times we don't do disasters or failures. We just tell you stories that we think are cool. You're welcome.
>> Farz: I will be doing it as Astron failure today, though, just for full disclosure.
>> Taylor: Okay, well, sometimes we do it.
>> Farz: Sometimes we do do it. Am I. Am I first?
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: On the board. Okay, Taylor, you're not going to like this.
>> Taylor: Can't wait.
>> Farz: But this is going to be a relatively quick one, too, so you might actually enjoy that.
Ezra Klein discusses mental health in the aviation industry on this podcast
So we've been talking a lot about flights, air travel. You know, I mentioned this in a previous episode that the Daily had covered why mental health in the aviation industry is, like, such a weird conundrum and challenge to kind of COVID And there's one specific flight that was the kind of baseline route for all these conversations that we're currently having. You know what? I didn't actually put the flight number down. So let me go ahead and pull that up real quick so that people.
>> Taylor: Know we should change our life mission to like advocating for that high speed rail whenever we're going to build in the United States.
>> Farz: Yeah, yeah. We enjoy the Ezra Klein crew. Yeah.
>> Taylor: Then we talk about train crashes, but whatever.
I'm going to cover a flight about mental health for commercial pilots
>> Farz: So I'm going to be covering a flight called German Wings 9525. German Wings is a budget airline of Lufthansa, which is like a premium carrier out of Germany. And the fight itself is pretty basic. Mostly what I'm going to be talking about has to do with mental health and what that looks like for commercial pilots.
>> Taylor: I remember this because I actually have another friend who's a pilot, who's a German pilot named Stefan. And he was the boyfriend of my German exchange student in like 1999. And when this happened, this happened like in the last 10 or so years, right?
>> Farz: Exactly. 2015.
>> Taylor: I definitely reached out to Stefan because when I met him, he was an 8, an 18 year old kid. And he was like, I want to be a pilot. Now he is a pilot. I don't know, I think he might work for like the next one under Lufthansa. But I was like, are you alive? And he was like, yes, but we're upset. I was like, great.
>> Farz: Yeah, it was a huge, huge deal in Germany especially. But yeah, I'm gonna briefly cover the flight, go into the state of mental health with pilots before this event happened and what current conditions are of mental and mental health and safety regulations after this happened. And I'm going to go into a lot of detail about the individual that we believe caused this incident to occur. So.
>> Taylor: A nightmare.
>> Farz: First things first. It turns in like the one part about the flight I'm going to cover. If you were to close your eyes and actually picture it, you'd give yourself a heart attack. We'll talk about that.
What was the state of mental health amongst commercial pilots before this event occurred
So first things first. What was the state of mental health amongst commercial pilots before this event occurred, which again was in 2015? Pilot certification mostly focused on physical health and obviously the ability to kind of fly a plane, that was kind of a given, but it was mostly focused on physical health.
>> Taylor: I have a question. I kind of want to raise my hand. I don't even know. I don't know how to do that in zoom. Can I ask you a quick question?
>> Farz: Yes.
>> Taylor: Is this like an international thing or is it that. Are you talking about like Germany or are the rules different in other places?
>> Farz: Rules are different in different places.
>> Taylor: Okay, thank you.
>> Farz: Yep, yep. The standards that I'm going to cover now are essentially ubiquitous. The safety regulations that went into effect after this, they became kind of fractured amongst different countries and regulatory bodies. So before this event, again, physical health was the most obvious thing that airlines would test for to make sure that your heart had the ability to kind of pump, you know, all that stuff. There was no forced psychological evaluations as part of the process of getting certified as a commercial air pilot. But mental health was only addressed when it would be self reported by a pilot. But like we mentioned before, there's a lot of downsides to self reporting mental health issues. If they disclose they're having these issues then they can be forcibly grounded, they can be suspended, it could be career, career ending. It can turn you into a pariah amongst your colleagues, which isn't good. And probably the worst aspect of it is that there's also not a clear path to how pilot can get back to flying again after addressing their mental health issues. It was kind of just like a, there was no one size fits all, which shouldn't be with mental health. But there was no obvious track that's like, hey, I'm going to report myself so I need to be on paid medical leave for six months and then I want to get a reevaluation in like two months and another one in two months and I'm back to flying in six months. Like that wasn't a standard practice.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: So in addition to that, due to data privacy laws in the U.S. they're HIPAA laws, but they have them in Europe as well. Obviously doctors are in a legal gray zone in terms of what they have to mandatorily report based on concerns around safety. And unless it's a clear and imminent danger, doctors do not have to report this. And even if they, even if there is a clear and imminent danger, it's all subjective. And I learned that Germany generally has like a very insular culture of privacy and they're, they're less vocal about things like this. Like you know, here in the US we have things like red flag laws where if you think somebody's a danger, they have a firearm, then you can call the police and you know, there's no issues with that. But Germany seems to have a lot more kind of self reliant culture I guess. So that's going to explain this as well. The issue of mental health and pilots has been around even before German wings. So I'm thinking back to 1997. There was a flight called Silk Air Flight 185 when the pilot turned off the flight data and cockpit voice recorders and then the nose dived the plane into the ground, killing 104 people. Two years later, Egypt Flight. Egypt Air Flight 990. That was when the first pilot took control of the plane while the other pilot was in the bathroom and then nosedive the plane to the Atlantic Ocean, killing 217 people. So this had happened before.
>> Taylor: Why isn't that on my nightmare rotation?
>> Farz: Well, luckily, lucky for you, it now is.
>> Taylor: It is now. My guy also went out, talked about making sure that you. When you're on like a boat, you look at the person and you're like, I'm going to jump on this boat. I'm here. I also do that to captains. I'm like, look at me. Look how cute. Look at my family. Look at us. Look at us.
>> Farz: Look how cute we are.
>> Taylor: Think about how much we have to live for.
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: You know, if I like your plan, there's also a gold. There's a Golden Girls episode where they're like at the airport bar and a guy's been drinking and he gets up and the guy's like, have a good flight, captain. He goes, thanks. He turns around, bumps into a pole, and then keeps going. And the girls are like, oh my God.
>> Farz: You know what I never researched is where did the whole drunk pilot trope come from?
>> Taylor: I don't know.
>> Farz: It'd be interesting to dig back into that. So we had these issues that were. That had happened around mental health of pilots. Some of that stuff is hard to kind of track down too, because there is no, a lot of these cases, there's no conclusive evidence of what happened because again, some of the cockpit flight recorder was shut off or the data recorder was shut off, and then they just nosedived. And so there could be a situation where somebody had like a heart ailment and just leaned over the column. We don't know for sure. It wasn't a for sure, for sure thing in those two situations, but Germany. Yeah.
>> Taylor: So sorry. So why can't. Now that I'm thinking of it, you mentioned like, like, oh, there's always like a black box you have to find that has all this information of what happened. Why isn't that just like being automatically transmitted into like a place on land?
>> Farz: I bet it probably is now.
>> Taylor: Okay, good. I mean, I bet it probably is too. I feel like, why wouldn't. Why do you rely on this box when we have satellites?
>> Farz: The only, the only thing I can think of about why they might not want to do that is because the volume of data would be so massive, would be bigger than all the AI companies combined in terms of what IT records. And so maybe that could be a limitation, but I would assume they're doing that now.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: So again, these all happened in like the late 1990s. German wing was the one that kind of set off the alarm bells within the industry and it was a lot more of a conclusive cut and dry Y. This is actually what ended up happening. And also I think part of that is because it was after 9 11, like all this. I mean before 911 people don't know that if you're young enough you like walk in through the security checkpoint and like see your family off on their flight. Like it was like we weren't as stringent about things before that.
>> Taylor: Now that I think about that, that sounds awful. Like I remember it. But also like, doesn't that like triple the number of people going through security?
>> Farz: It does seem like a weird obligation to. Also security was a joke back then.
>> Taylor: Yeah, yeah, you're right.
Flight from Barcelona to Germany crashed on March 24, 2015 with 144 passengers
>> Farz: So let's talk about the flight itself. The flight took off From Barcelona on March 24, 2015 with 144 passengers, 160 crew and it was headed to Dusseldorf, Germany. It took off at just around 10am local time and 30 minutes later it started to descend from its 38,000 foot cruising altitude. Air traffic control saw this and frantically tried to get a hold of the pilots, was unable to and essentially declared an emergency French military address because at this point had crossed over into France. They were scrambled and sent to intercept the plane, but they didn't really, they didn't get to it in time. And the plane was recorded as having crashed into a mountain range just north of Nice at 435mph. Obviously everybody was dead.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: So what was going on here? We're going to start with the pilot. So there's two pilots and the commanding pilot was a guy named Captain Patrick Sondenheimer. He was 34 years old. He had a ton of flight flying experience, commercial naturally. He was kind of the guy in charge. Also. 34 seems kind of young, but maybe that's just me.
>> Taylor: It does, but yeah.
>> Farz: The other pilot was a guy named Andres Lubitz, a 27 year old junior pilot who was trained by Lufthansa and then employed by German Wing about a year after this ended up happening. Before that he was a flight attendant for Lufthansa. While he was kind of moonlighting and doing his training stuff. The investigation began by collecting the Flight data and cockpit voice recorders. The prevailing theory is that the captain Sondenheimer left the cockpit for bathroom break 30 minutes after taking off. And post 911 cockpit doors were reinforced and controlled mostly from the inside. On the outside, there is a code that can be punched to gain access, but that code can be overridden and the door remain locked from the inside. The reason for that is if a pilot goes outside, somebody grabs them and says, punch the code in. Like, you need to be able to override it. And so. So that's essentially what ended up happening here.
>> Taylor: Like, whenever the pilot goes to the bathroom, they, like, put that little wall up and this. Flight attendants just stand there and stare at you. And I'm like, can we get him back at his job?
>> Farz: I know this doesn't feel safe.
>> Taylor: Can we get him some sort of bucket they could just pee in? I mean, I don't want to, like, dehumanize his job, but, like, I'd like him to stay in it.
>> Farz: And I have a door on the other side of the bathroom. And then when the pilot opens that door, it locks the main bathroom door, so somebody can't just go in from there. Yeah, we should be plane designers.
>> Taylor: You know what? We've really opened up our career opportunities already in this episode, so I'm excited for us.
>> Farz: Yes, yes. So the prevailing theory is that the Captain Sondenheimer, he left the concrete for bathroom break, and investigators think that what happened is that Lubitz overrode the code and lock the door from the inside. Sondenheimer tried his code and realized it didn't work. And he was heard on the cockpit voice recorder pounding on the door and asking Lubitz to open the door. While all this is happening, the plane is descending rapidly. Way too early. Everybody knew it was way too early for this thing to be descending. Some of the dramatizations around this had people asking the flights and, like, wait, there's no chance. We're here already, right? Like, why are we going down so much? We later will learn that Lubitz had set the desired altitude on the plane to 100ft. And I think at this point, Sondenheimer is realizing what's going on. This is the part that's, like, nightmare fuel for me. He's given what's called a crash ax. I think it's called. It's some sort of ax they keep on board for some reason, and. Oh, probably for crashes, actually, that's.
>> Taylor: Well.
>> Farz: Sorry.
>> Taylor: Probably. It reminds me of the. I don't know if it's true. But it reminds me of the crowbar that came under my bed. Now, to get out of the door, just in case of an earthquake, you might have to axe your way out of a plane.
>> Farz: Yeah, yeah. As I literally spoke the words, it occurred to me why they have this there. So picture this on the flight recorder. We can indicate that we know that Sondenheimer, as he was screaming frantically to Lubitz to open the door, he was also smashing the door in full view of the passengers to break into the cockpit. How scary is that?
>> Taylor: That's. That's it. Yep.
SSRIs are known to potentially cause suicidal ideation
Nope, hate it.
>> Farz: So investigators would say that on the cockpit of voice recorder, you could hear the pastor screaming like every. Everybody knew this was going on.
>> Taylor: Oh, God.
>> Farz: And ultimately we know what happened. We just said that it crashed in a mountain. 435 miles per hour. So that's, that's where it kind of ended. It was also learned that on the. From the, from the flight data recorder was learned on the previous flight, the one that brought it from Dusseldorf to Barcelona before they did the turnaround back to, back to Dusseldorf. Sondeheimer also stepped out of the cockpit. And the flight data recorder showed that someone had set the altitude to 100ft, like flipped it back and forth a couple of times while he was away. So, like, he was practicing.
>> Taylor: He was like, just thinking about it. Yeah, just thinking about.
>> Farz: He was practicing it. So the investigators start focusing on Lubitz and search through his apartment and find a letter from a doctor indicating that he was unfit for flying. They also found two types of medications for depression and a prescription grade sleeping pill. One of those medications, which is the street name or the pharmaceutical name for it, is Lexapro. It's a selective serotonin reuptake inhibitor or. Or ssri, which, like, is a super long name. I don't even know what that means. But SSRIs are known to potentially cause suicidal ideation. It's particularly bad and present in younger people, but can also impact adults. The FDA's analysis of SSRIs found that people 25 years old or younger have the highest risk of suicidal ideation. And Lubitz, like we already mentioned, was 27.
>> Taylor: It's so I don't understand that, like, I. I take an SSRI and I've taken it for like 15 years and it's great. I feel awesome. No, I did so loft. But before that I was like super depressed. And now I'm not. I'm not like super happy, you know, but I'm not like laying in bed all day. But it's just so weird that like it can stop me from being depressed, but it also comes with suicidal ideation. Like what is that in your brain? How does that work?
>> Farz: I don't, I don't think that medical science actually knows why any of this stuff works the way it does and who it works on. I think the quite there yet it's.
>> Taylor: Really crazy that it can be both.
>> Farz: And like I said, it's worth noting that it's not as common in like older adults than it is in younger adults. So.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: And, and it's not every SRI like they specifically called out Lexapro.
>> Taylor: Wow.
>> Farz: So investigators would search Lubitz's computer and found that he had been searching for ways to commit suicide and even ran. Oh by the way, I forgot to mention this. He started taking Lexapro nine days before this happened. And it's worth noting that the ideations are the most intense right. When you start taking it.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: So again the search of the computer found that he'd been searching for ways to commit suicide. Even ran searches on cockpit doors and how secure they were.
>> Taylor: I also think we should now we should monitor pilots. Google history.
>> Farz: I know, I mean, yeah, let's make it impossible for anybody to be a pilot. You know, why don't we just do drones? Suicidal drone operator. That's why. That was a trick question. Taylor. You, you. Oh wait, they wouldn't commit suicide in that case. Never mind.
>> Taylor: No, you, you've got. I, I am as like unsafe that I feel it would be to be in a place as a bunch of self driving cars just like driving around. I am kind of on, I kind of feel like self driving planes would be safe.
>> Farz: I think self driving everything would be safer than humans.
>> Taylor: But I, I feel nervous about like self driving cars all on the road together.
>> Farz: I mean. Yeah, right, right. I can empathize with that because right now like it's not a ubiquitous technology but I assume like let's by the time we're dead.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: And it's ubiquitous in every car. Like I would assume they would create like a nerve central nervous system where they all communicate with each other. So everybody, every car knows where every other car in its vicinity is and they're communicating back and forth their intentions. That's when it gets safe. Like I would agree.
>> Taylor: And then they, then they enslave the humans and we live in car worlds.
>> Farz: I'd be okay with that.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: Get what we deserve down.
>> Farz: So. So as investigators dug further into Lubitz's history, they found that shortly after joining that training program with Lufthansa, he was hospitalized for severe depressive episodes. And it wasn't until like nearly a year later that he was medically cleared to continue his training. He was also having other issues. He seemed convinced for some reason that he was going blind, in addition to all the other psychological problems that he was having. He apparently visited 40 doctors to like, confirm that he's going blind and check his vision, despite the fact there was no indication. Every doctor reports like, you're fine, you see perfectly well. There's no deterioration whatsoever.
>> Taylor: You're thinking, did he mention that he was a pilot?
>> Farz: So, so a lot came out of this Taylor that was like, why didn't any of you doctors report this to his employer? Like, why in so much of the dialogue around this has to do with Germany's privacy laws. Well then, like, the culture of secrecy, of like, hey, it's your business, not my business. Like, I'm not going to intrude on your life. You do you.
After German wing, the system underwent some reforms regarding cockpit safety
But I mean, I mean, they, they could have stopped a lot of problems if they were a little more intrusive in what other people are doing.
>> Taylor: I'm not gonna. Yeah, I do feel as I'm saying this that like, there's gonna be like four pilots left after we like, do all of this. Like, I know in 10 years anyway. You know, they're all either old and they're gonna retire or people are gonna be like, why am I gonna prep with this and then not do it?
>> Farz: Yeah, well, the money, I think. I think pilots make exceedingly good salaries too, don't they?
>> Taylor: I think it's like, you could also be a software engineer.
>> Farz: Well, not in 10 years. Probably not, but can't be either actually well replaced in 10 years.
>> Taylor: So be a train conductor.
>> Farz: Yeah, be a train conductor. That actually would be fun. So after German wing, the system underwent some reforms. A two person cockpit rule went into effect, meaning that at all times two people have to be in the cockpit. But as you literally just stated when you gave the example of when the stewardess stands in front with little, little box things. But it is sort of being used and sort of not being used. It's not ubiquitous. Lufthansa themselves rolled it back after two years. Like, yeah, it's not going to actually be that helpful to do this. And a lot of places don't do it. It's an airline by airline thing. It's not like a legal requirement anymore. The European version of the FF faa, called the European Union Aviation Safety Agency. They now make pre employment psychological screenings mandatory for all new pilots. This includes a personality test, an assessment, behav evaluation and background checks. But this is a one off evaluation. There's no ongoing process for health monitoring throughout a pilot's career, which probably have. Yeah, there's. There's now a return to duty practice which includes regular check ins with an aviation medical examiner and conditional reinstatement after clearing a psych eval after being grounded. So like now there are processes in place where there is a path back to being able to fly again. There are now airline run support groups by pilots for pilots where they can confidentially talk to other pilots and disclose what is going on in their minds without fear of retribution or being grounded.
>> Taylor: That's nice.
>> Farz: Doctors can now report serious concerns about airworthiness to airlines without violating patient privacy laws. Again, that's up to the doctor to decide that that's a serious safety concern. They should report it and not all of them have. For what it's worth, about two years after the crash of this German wing flight, libitz parents came out and said they don't think their son did any of this and that something else was going on. But it's worth noting that the only other explanation is that he died mid flight. And even then he would have he still manually set to 100ft the. The altitude. And it's also worth noting on the cockpit voice recorder he was audibly heard like breathing. Like he was. He, he. He was there. Like he was definitely there. so. So that's where it kind of ended. And now we're having planes bump into each other midair, which is nice and.
>> Taylor: On the ground and the ground, which is not lame.
>> Farz: Bumper, bumper planes.
>> Taylor: Yeah, I hate that. I hate that. I found my. I found my message to Stefan from Facebook from March 24, 2015. I said, you're alive. Yes. And he said, yes, I'm alive. He's. He flies with Air Berlin. He said, we're all very sad and shocked. He was flying to Rome and had two passengers on his plane to Rome that lost their sister on the German wings flight. He said, it's pure horror. But how are you?
>> Farz: I can't imagine. Yeah, yeah, but that's my story. To be fair. They're actually after this event. There's really been only one situation where a pilot tried to do something. I think it was Alaskan Airlines and it was a pilot that was catching a flight on the. The jump seat or whatever inside the cockpit. So he wasn't actually supposed to be flying the Plane. But what he did mid flight was he reached over and turned off the engines of the plane.
>> Taylor: Was that the guy who was on shrooms?
>> Farz: Yes. Well, he was on shrooms, like that weekend, and then he got on the plane and had an anxiety attack and flipped out and did that. But ever since then, like, it actually hasn't been that frequent that pilots have done this, which is good.
>> Taylor: That's good.
>> Farz: Yeah. Positive silver lining. See that? We're our happy show. So anyways, that's my story. Hopefully it was at least somewhat interesting.
>> Taylor: It is interesting. It's terrifying, but interesting. Thank you.
>> Farz: Yeah. The image of people seeing the captain trying to break in, it had to be like, man.
>> Taylor: Nope, nope. Terrible, terrible, terrible. Yeah.
>> Farz: Sweet.
Taylor: Thank you to Nadine and Juan who joined our Patreon
What do you got for us, Taylor?
>> Taylor: I want to say thank you to Nadine and Juan, who joined our Patreon. We appreciate you.
>> Farz: We're not going to shame anybody, but you know who you are. If you haven't.
>> Taylor: There you are. And thank you very much. I really appreciate it. It's super cool that we have your support. Just a reminder, you can Join Patreon. It's $5 a month just to help us grow. And then later, if we ever have ads. You will not have ads. That's the way it goes. It's there. It's that.
Rob Morrow left Valkyrie two days after principal filming started
And then the other thing I wanted to mention is I watched the island of Dr. Moreau and I asked you a question via text. Cause I was like, wait a minute. So you're telling me that the guy who Lupin from Harry Potter plays was supposed to be played by Bruce Willis, but then he was played by the guy in Northern Exposure? What's that guy's name again?
>> Farz: Rob Morrow.
>> Taylor: Rob Morrow. And I was like, but you never talk about Rob Morrow again. And you were like, oh, right, I forgot to tell you. So can you tell everybody what happened to Rob Morrow?
>> Farz: Yeah, what happened to Rob Morrow is that two days after principal filming started, he went into the set that was the ship. And he called the CEO of New Line Cinema crying, saying, please, I will do anything if you just let me off this movie. This is unbelievable. It's chaos. And he actually. His biggest issue was he was like, the energy is so negative. Valkyrie was such a jerk. And the director was so not ready to do this that he was like, I can't handle, like, the stress of being here.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: And they granted him the ability to kind of leave. So that's nice. Yeah. I mean, was he. Was he not even in a single scene? I assume not.
>> Taylor: No. Yeah. Okay.
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: There you go. So funny. Good for him.
>> Farz: Yeah. And then.
Taylor: I think if you haven't watched it, I think you should
And then we. I also mentioned that Taylor, that the character of Mini Me in the Austin Power series also was derived from Marlon Brando's relationship with. I forgot the name. That that small actor is that 17 foot tall man.
>> Taylor: 17 inches. And also, he was nude a lot of the movie. The Small Man.
>> Farz: That makes it so much better for some reason.
>> Taylor: I mean, I think if you haven't watched it, I think you should. Everyone, it's on YouTube. It's only an hour and a half, which I think also think it's crazy because movies now are like eight hours long. And I was like, all that for an hour and a half movie. And it is everything that. Yeah.
>> Farz: Did you enjoy watching it?
>> Taylor: I did. I did enjoy it. I would watch it again.
>> Farz: It's fun.
>> Taylor: Yeah, it's fun.
>> Farz: Okay.
>> Taylor: Yeah. The whole time you're like, what?
>> Farz: It's like it's a fever dream. It's a fever dream.
>> Taylor: Because also, like, there's. What is the. Science is so funny because there's, like, no science to this, obviously. And like, Dr. Moreau allegedly, like, won a Nobel Prize. And the guy's like, I remember him. He's a great scientist. And there's like a part where. Where Marilyn Brando just, like, holding a petri dish and he's like, look at this, look at this. You know, you're like, I guess that's what science is. If you're like, ask a third grader to show you a lab. They'd be like, here's my graduated cylinder and my petri dish. I'm a scientist.
>> Farz: That's so funny. I was hoping there'd be, like, something in terms of a scientific. The way Jurassic park explained it, it was like, oh, this actually kind of tracks like. This makes sense.
>> Taylor: No, no, nothing. They didn't, like, explain DNA or anything.
>> Farz: Jeez. All right.
>> Taylor: Cool. Well, thank you. Far as. Thank you, everyone. We are at doomed to fail pod on all social media. Doom to fellowpod Gmail.com. if you have any ideas, let us know.
>> Farz: And we. Oh, yeah. And. Okay, you just said it. And we have the Patreon.
>> Taylor: We do. You can join.
>> Farz: Yes. You already said that. Okay, cool. We'll go ahead and cut off there. Thank you, everyone. Thanks, Taylor.
>> Taylor: Thanks.