Discover the rich history of the Papal States and the evolution of the Catholic Church in our latest episode! Learn about the intriguing interplay between politics and faith from Jesus to Napoleon. Don’t miss out on this deep dive into history! #PapalStates #CatholicChurch #HistoryPodcast
Hi Friends! Our transcripts aren't perfect, but I wanted to make sure you had something - if you'd like an edited transcript, I'd be happy to prioritize one for you - please email doomedtofailpod@gmail.com - Thanks! - Taylor
Americans should ask not what their country can do for them,
>> Taylor: In the matter of the people of State of California vs. Orenthal James Simpson, case number BA097. And so, my fellow Americans, ask not.
>> Farz: What your country can do for you.
>> Taylor: Ask what you can do for your country.
>> Farz: Boom.
Taylor: Whoever designed this room did not put any lights in it
We are back. Taylor in the club. How are you?
>> Taylor: Good. How are you?
>> Farz: I'm doing well. I'm doing very, very well.
>> Taylor: I'm laughing. As far as this light is, like, given club vibes right now, it's clearly daytime, but your light is, like, changing colors. And I like that. I like that.
>> Farz: For you, I have to have it because for some reason, whoever designed this room did not put any lights in it. And so sunlight in this rave light are the only avenues I have, unfortunately.
>> Taylor: So, I mean, you could buy a regular lamp, but whatever. But I like your room. It's like. I'm like, there's no light in my room either, I guess, But I added lights.
>> Farz: Like, do you want me to save you a rave? Send you a rave light, maybe? No.
>> Taylor: I don't know. Do I need one?
>> Farz: You don't know. You don't. You don't know. You miss it until you don't have it.
>> Taylor: It's true. It's true.
Doomed to Fail brings you history's most notorious disasters and epic failures
Cool. Well, hello, everyone. Welcome to Doomed to Fail. We bring you history's most notorious disasters and epic failures twice a week. I am Taylor, joined by Fars.
>> Farz: I am Fars. I'm here, and I'm ready to dive in. Am I fair in assuming I go first today?
>> Taylor: I think so, yeah.
>> Farz: Okay. I'm gonna do a little bit of a premise preface part here. Okay. That's to him. I watched Conclave.
>> Taylor: I have not watched it yet, but I get why you did. Continue.
>> Farz: Apparently, it's, like, streaming, like, 3X, like, right after Francis died.
>> Taylor: What a good idea to put out a movie.
>> Farz: How serendipitous. Like, how much luck must you have to have done that?
>> Taylor: I mean, like, probably not that much luck because he was, like, 80 years old, and so you're like, in the next couple years. He was definitely on the out of here team for a long time.
>> Farz: I mean, fair. I don't pay attention to this stuff very much. So, like, I mean, I. If you were paying attention, you probably already knew that, so. Yeah, but.
>> Taylor: But fun. But I haven't watched it yet, but I want to continue.
>> Farz: It is awesome.
Conclave is about the Pope dying, and then when the pope dies
>> Taylor: Taylor, do you want to say what it's about first? Quickly? Are you going to talk about it just in case it makes sense?
>> Farz: So, basically, Conclave, it's just. It's about the Pope dying, and then when the pope dies, the Vatican, the. The cardinals all get together, the ones who are under 80, and they vote in a thing called a conclave, on who should be the leader. It's super. It's very interesting because it's also, like, political, but it's, like, political on, like, a grander scale. You know, like, in the US when we talk political, it's like the economy or immigration and their case, like, the entirety of, like, the Catholic Church and faith. And, like, do we want to go this direction? Do we want to go that direction?
>> Taylor: Right.
>> Farz: I also learned there's a concept called fat pope, thin pope. And the theory behind it is that usually who, at whatever personality type, guided the church during, like, you know, with one pope, they try to pick, like, a different version of that. So that. So if, like. And they simplify it by saying that if you have a fat pope, you gotta get a thin one next. Then you got a thin pope, you gotta get a fat one next.
>> Taylor: Got it. I think what was talking about this, and I did mention that we are living in the era of the least hot popes, because they're like, when, like, Jude Law was the Pope, the Pope is sexy.
>> Farz: You know, I forgot when he was, like, the real Pope.
>> Taylor: I feel like it's. Well, I feel like whenever I watch, like, old things by the Pope, I mean, or whatever I know about the Pope. Like, you know, they used to have, like, a bunch of kids, and, like.
>> Farz: You know, there's so much.
>> Taylor: All the collection.
>> Farz: So that's kind of the premise of this. I watched Conclave, and I got, like, obsessed. Obsessed with the Catholic Church, which we've talked about before, because it's like, kind of like a sexy religion. You have, like, exorcism, and, like, it's like, there's a lot of fun Gothic mythology to it. The history of it is so fascinating. And I've just been, like, super obsessed. And, like, at some point, I want to do one of, like, the top five most interesting popes because there's so much fun stuff that goes on there, especially the olden days. Not so much now, but, like, back then.
>> Taylor: Right. That's what I mean. Like, it was weird for a while. And remember, we talked about, like, the Great Schism where there's two popes.
>> Farz: Yeah, well, there's an anti pope. Yeah, yeah.
>> Taylor: I love that job.
>> Farz: But.
Some days I'm like, I have too many ideas
But what I wanted to cover today because, like, I had, like, 500 topics because I. You should see the tabs I have opened right now. There's, like, so many different directions. You can Go with on this.
>> Taylor: Sometimes I'm like, I have no more ideas. And some days I'm like, I have too many ideas.
>> Farz: I know.
>> Taylor: And those days are back to back for some reason. Like, I don't know why you don't have just like I'm. I have a normal amount of ideas.
>> Farz: But I don't know, it's like bounce between fat idea having, thin idea having.
>> Taylor: Exactly.
This article covers the sovereignty of the Catholic Church under the Pope
>> Farz: So, so what I wanted to cover today was the Papal State, the Holy See, that is the sovereignty of the Catholic Church under the Pope. And man, if I knew how thick and like deep this topic was, I might have reconsidered it because it is. So I was talking to Rachel earlier and she was like, where are you at now? I was like, well, I started at 33 AD, I think I'm at 500 and I got about another 1500 years to go. But there's so much that happens with it. It's interesting. The Church has been part and parcel with so many things throughout world history. When I was researching this, all these different topics came. I was like, oh, that guy was attached. That's why this guy. A lot of the names you're going to hear in this are going to sound familiar and it's because it just, it's just a deep cross section of like the entire history of the Church. But I'm gonna start pretty early on in this. Also I should note like, obviously like I'm not Catholic and I'm sure there's a ton of folks who are listening who are Catholic who probably have like ideas or maybe I misstate something or thoughts or they heard a different version of this because so much of this stuff is like ancient history and like in home school changes and like people have a different interpretation of it. It's like, write to us if I, if I get something wrong or if I didn't include something that I should have, please, please write to us@dummyfellpond.com thank you. So I'm going to go back a ways. Okay. Again, I'm starting.
>> Taylor: I'm ready.
Let's go back to Jesus and his relationship to a guy named Peter
>> Farz: So let's go all the way back to a guy named Jesus.
>> Taylor: Cool.
>> Farz: And his relationship to a guy named Peter. So this is the Peter that we currently call Saint Peter whose real name was Shimon Barona. He was born in Bethsaida, which is modern day Golan Heights, which according to Wikipedia. I'm only quoting Wikipedia, I'm not getting the geopolitics here. It is called the Syrian territory that is currently occupied by Israel. That is what it is known for internationally known as today, he was a fisherman by trade and he met Jesus, who convinced him that he was the son of God. And Peter became one of his followers and eventually became One of his 12 disciples, one of the ones that he would have the famous Last supper with. Also Taylor. The other thing, the artwork and imagery that's like contained within the Catholic Church. It's like. Oh, yeah, it's like the Sistine Chapel has.
>> Taylor: Yeah. Anyways, I took like an entire class on the Sistine Chapel, but. Yes. Have you seen it? I have.
>> Farz: I've never. So I actually was really interested to have this conversation with you because you, you have like the. You. You've seen all this stuff. Like I can only picture it through the words I read, but like you actually been there, which is really cool.
>> Taylor: It's very crowded. What was I gonna say? Oh, have you seen Jesus Christ Superstar? No, it's so good. Do you know what it is?
>> Farz: I'm assuming it is a play.
>> Taylor: Yes, it is. I think it's Andrew Lloyd Webber. It's a musical. And basically they're like, it's all of his friends, like trying to figure out what the h***'s going on. And it's very 70s. Like you can watch like a 70s version film of it. It's just. It's phenome.
>> Farz: Yeah, I'm sure, I'm sure we'll, we'll bounce to that. After all my other topics are exhausted. After all the other little tabs or clothes. I'll. I'll go over that one.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
So Rome is part of the global expansion that they had
>> Farz: So, okay, like going back to Jesus. So he was obviously crucified in the year 30 or 33. I couldn't find anything definitive there. And that was out done outside of Jerusalem. And this is where it gets deep. Okay, so it was done by Pontius Pilate. He was a Roman governor. So you're like Roman governor. What's he doing in modern day Jerusalem? Do you know this history or like.
>> Taylor: Is it Rome just expanding?
>> Farz: Yeah, but you know the whole. So hard to figure out all this stuff, how this guy got to Jerusalem to find Jesus.
>> Taylor: It's like how Pontius Pilate got there. I don't know how he got there.
>> Farz: So. So we're going to get into it. So Rome, what you just said, Rome is part of the global expansion that they had. Were trying to gain control basically like this part of the world. And they basically invaded this part of the world. Like you are now part of the Roman Empire. And it was mostly peaceful except for a handful of Jewish revolts against Roman Rule again, this goes in like super, super deep territory. Rome had a pretty hands off approach on controlling people's religion except that they had to in addition to whatever their own beliefs were, acknowledge Roman gods which were, which like for a monotheistic religion, religion is like sacrimony. So Romans didn't like that. That was their big beef. Many Jews were expelled from Jerusalem due to their beliefs. And with Jesus's crucifixion their problems were only rising. The Romans problems were rising because Christianity started taking root in the area as well. So now you're battling the Jews and now you have the Christian Christianity picking up. And that's, that's kind of the, the situation they found themselves in.
>> Taylor: There's a song in Jesus Christ Superstar that goes, when do we ride into Jerusalem? When do we ride to Jerusalem? So that's what I think of when as you're saying, I'm saying that to myself. There's the only words I know that.
>> Farz: I hope we're not copyrighted on that.
>> Taylor: When do we ride to Jerusalem?
>> Farz: You're going to get a scope.
>> Taylor: I don't think anyone thought that that was the actual song. I think we're fine.
>> Farz: So now essentially you have these two monotheistic religions. And also the problem with Christianity was many of its practices were completely opposite Roman ideology. So for example, the Roman leader was divinely ordained by Roman gods. So if you oppose Roman gods, you oppose the Caesar, which wasn't a good look. They were also pacifists so they wouldn't fight for the Roman Empire so they would seem disloyal. And there was like a dozen other things, a dozen other things that ultimately resulted in Romans launching like a campaign to quail Christianity. By this point, St. Peter left his hometown and went to Rome as Christianity was gaining traction. But it was being spread secretly like on the, on the down low. In 64 AD the great fire of Rome hit which you talk, we talked about before and Nero blamed the Christians and he launched a wave of retaliations resulting in the death of approximately 979 of them. And St. Peter was part of that. He's part of the wave. He was killed by being executed on. He's being, he was crucified, but he was crucified upside down which looks horrible. And it's, it's super interesting because the, the, the like currently St. Peter's Basilica is built on top of what was called Nero's Circus, which is where he would execute people.
>> Taylor: Cool.
>> Farz: Is that cool?
>> Taylor: That's so cool.
>> Farz: I love that you, you've been in the Basilica, right?
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: Okay.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: Was there any remnants of, like, when Nero had control?
>> Taylor: But Rome is so cool because Rome is like. I think we saw this before as well. But Rome is very layered. Like, literally, physically a layered city, you know, so, like, you can see things like in the subways, there's like Roman architecture because it's below the other stuff, you know?
>> Farz: So crazy. So fun.
>> Taylor: Yeah. Also, what does that remind me of? Oh, whenever we pass a church or are near a church, my kids are like, what does that little T mean again? Makes me laugh every time.
>> Farz: I think, maybe you should educate them on that.
>> Taylor: I did. I. They know what it means, but we can't. They, you know, we don't talk about it all the time.
>> Farz: So there's a. One of the artworks I mentioned earlier. It's a Caravaggio painting of the crucifixion of St. Peter that.
>> Taylor: I love Caravaggio.
>> Farz: I bet you would recognize it. It looks so incredible. Like, the detail, like, it's. It's super cool.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: So St. Peter was considered the leader of the Catholic faith after Jesus's death and the successor to kind of spread his message. Given that he was the most recognized leader in the most powerful city on earth, he was ordained Bishop of Rome by his followers. And to this day, whoever becomes pope is called the Bishop of Rome. So he was the first Pope. But the word pope comes from the Latin word papas, which means father, and wasn't formally used as a title for someone until Pope Marcel Marcellinus around 296 AD. So it took 300 years for the word pope to be like the. The title for that person.
>> Taylor: Cool.
>> Farz: From where this story started at around to about 306 AD, Christianity had been steadily growing up to the rule of Constantine the Great, who became the first Roman Emperor to convert Christianity. Is that cool?
>> Taylor: That is cool.
Over time, Rome's power waned as groups like the Franks rose to prominence
>> Farz: And that unlocks.
>> Taylor: What year was that?
>> Farz: Three hundred and six. Okay, I'm up to 306. We got a long way to go.
>> Taylor: You skipped a lot, I'm sure, because that's a lot.
>> Farz: We got a long way to go still. So that obviously put the Catholic Church on a slightly different trajectory now that the Emperor was in their favor.
>> Taylor: Right.
>> Farz: So Constantine issued laws granting the Church the ability to acquire and possess property and even gifted them what's called the Apostolic palace, which today is the Pope's home in Vatican City. Re. Wait, did you go to Vatican City too? Oh, you must have. Yeah. You went. So resources started pouring in and the Church started acquiring Land which granted them more status and more power. By this point, there was a Eastern and Western Roman Empire under the theory that the city was too big for one person to control. And so they kind of split that up. Ultimately, that weakened both states and on both fronts, they started inviting kind of barbarian invasions from Germanic tribes as well as Attila the Hun tearing through the region. A lot of names that we like are so fascinating. Yeah, it's so crazy. Anyways, over time, the culture of Rome shifted as more and more outsiders moved into Rome and as a byproduct of these invasions. So Rome was changing, but the Church wasn't, which appealed to a lot of the local natives, the native Romans. Right. And so this only resulted in more and more local Romans gravitating towards a church, expanding Christianity, expanding kind of their power and status and all that stuff. Because it's funny, you can see it building. It's like, it's like when you talk about, like, political organizing, like, it. It reminds me of that. It's like it doesn't happen at once. It just has to be like a groundswell that builds. So over time, Rome's power waned as dramatic groups like the Franks rose to prominence. They would ultimately control a lot. They would control. This is modern day. I'm using the language that they would. The Franks would control France, most of Germany, all of Belgium, Netherlands, Luxembourg, Switzerland, most of Austria and northern parts of Italy, Spain, Slovenia and Czech Republic. They're huge.
>> Taylor: Like, those are my people.
>> Farz: Yeah, yeah. Genetically, yeah, totally. In the 400s, their king was a guy named King Clovis. And he converted to Christianity and formed a natural partnership and alliance with the Pope at the time. During that time, mid to southern Italy was still being attacked by other Germanic tribes not controlled by the Franks, namely a group called the Lombards. And the Pope obviously hated this. So in 754, Pope Stefan II anointed the King of the Frank Franks, a guy named Pepin the short. Poor guy. Poor guy. He's like. He's like, I'm not that short. I'm five, eight. That's.
>> Taylor: Like, literally my brain goes to see someone, like, real jolly, you know, being like, what's up, guys? But it's probably not that.
>> Farz: Probably not that jolly. Yeah, I don't think anybody was that jolly this time. So they. The Pope at that time in 754, he ordains and anoints this King of the Franks, protector of the Romans. And following this, Pepin agreed to use his military power to repel the Lombards. And give control of the region back to the Pope. So he did that only two short years later. So in two years, in 756, he uses military strength, took control of other regions within the middle to southern parts of Italy. The region that is modern day Emilia, Rome, obviously the Adriatic coasts, Spoleto and Viterbo. And that was approximately 18,000 square miles of land and around 2 million people that were now directly under the control of the Pope at this point. This is the shift in the late, the mid to late 7 hundreds from the Pope being a spiritual leader to one that was a political one as well. And we're going to fast forward a little bit to 12 years later. After this land grant was given by Pepin, he died. And his sons, Charlemagne and Carlomaine, they rose to power. Although Carlomaine died in 771, leaving Charlemagne the main ruler.
>> Taylor: Amazing.
>> Farz: He was also a huge supporter of the Popes. And the Pope very much needed his support to maintain his power. So as part of a. I can't even understand how complicated this is. So part of this complicated strategic plan was balancing out like these, the need for protection versus the need for control. What Pope Leo III decided to do was he crowned Charlemagne as the Holy Roman Emperor and the Emperor of Romans. So the trade off here was that the Pope gave Charlemagne spiritual authority and Charlemagne gave the Pope military and political muscle. That was the idea. That was a handoff. This would result in a ton of strife because what you ended up in a situation was that you have two people with egos and they don't want a place that can fiddle the other. And so they would just get in each other's hair all the time. And this is like, not between necessarily Charlemagne, but all the successors, like successor popes, successor emperors. And you can't take it away. You already said you're the Holy Roman Emperor. So it's like for the next guy, we're gonna take that back. It's like now it's part of the routine, right? So this would spark a centuries long tug of war between future popes and emperors. Emperors would try to make decisions, have decision making abilities within the Church, like who should be appointed bishop. And the Pope would retaliate by excommunicating emperors. Like that was kind of the tugging, tugging back and forth. Over time, this tension built up to the point where the Pope had no faith that whoever the Holy Roman Emperor was, would protect him in the Church. So he found salvation within France and the French monarchy, because the French monarchy at that point was rising in power and saying, we'll protect you. Come to France. So in 1305, the Papacy actually moved to Avignon, France, and it would remain there till 1378, when Pope Gregory moved back to Rome, sparked in part because of the Hundred Years. Hundred Years War with France and England. It's all tied. It's.
Post Napoleon, Italian nationalism became more dominant
So. You see what I'm saying? Like, it's literally.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: What you're doing right now, the knitting, you're doing, like, every element of, like, human history is knitted with, like, the Church and, like, what it did and what it didn't do. It's so fascinating.
>> Taylor: I mean, as you're saying this, I'm, like, remembering when, like, Napoleon made himself with the Holy.
>> Farz: I'm going to talk about that. Don't ruin it. Don't run it. Yeah, we're gonna do. We're gonna do a lot of this. We're only at 1300. Okay, okay. So over the time that they were in Avignon, their control over their lands in Italy were reduced as the locals kind of started acting independently of the papacy, even though technically the papacy still controlled the region. They had local administrators, but they were like, you're not here. Who cares? Like, I'm going to pay attention.
>> Taylor: Yeah. I mean, it sounds. I mean, it's hard to do that now with computers.
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: You know, like, keeping everything straight, I feel like, would be really almost impossible.
>> Farz: So throughout the late 1300s and early 1400s, they use their military power to seize back control of their lands and basically regained all of it. So the Pope moves back in late 1300s, they just, like, shore up a military. And I think we're just going to take this by force. And it seems this time period and the kickoff of the Renaissance is also when the Pope became, like, much more of, like, a military and strategic leader than anything else. Pope Julius the Second, apparently he was called the. Was it the war Pope or something? He would literally wear armor and lead his military into cities that he wanted to take in. Like, it was, like, crazy. It's like nuts. Like, it's like he was like, imagine. Can you imagine Pope Francis with, like, a sword? Like, just running into battle with his little hat?
>> Taylor: Like, I mean, my whole life the Pope has been in his 80s.
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: It feels like it's always been an old man.
>> Farz: Yeah, totally, totally. So by the late 1500s, the Papal State was as large as modern day Switzerland and at the height of its importance of power. This is when we get to the Napoleon. So in 1796, Napoleon would invade Rome and defeat the Pope's army. Napoleon had a very hostile relationship with the Catholic Church, as did France in general during the French Revolution. I mean, he actually, he thought religion was fine, but only when it served the state's interests. And so that you have a papal state and a pope army was kind of anathema to him.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: When Napoleon invaded, he took Pope Pius as a prisoner, where he would eventually die in prison. Several weeks later, they. And they took back all church land for France. So they were just like, undoing all of. Wasn't until 1801 that Napoleon was like, oh, like, people are like, way more malleable and chill when you don't take their religion away from them. And so in 1801, he restored the Pope's spiritual authority and what's called the Concordant of 1801. They did not give back any land, but it was just meant. It just meant that the Pope can just do his thing in peace without worrying about death or being killed or thrown into jail. Eventually, Napoleon was defeated and the Congress of Vienna was held to decide what to do with the territories he had conquered, including the Papal States. And that seemed to be the easiest problem to solve at that time because they were basically just do undo it, just whatever they had before, just giving back what they had before Napoleon came into power.
>> Taylor: Meanwhile, there's people who are just like, I just want my farm to produce potatoes. I don't die. Yeah, silly.
>> Farz: So post Napoleon, Italian nationalism became more prominent and the goal of having a united Italy started gaining traction. The Kingdom of Sardinia would lead this charge, along with this revolutionary Italian hero named giuseppe Garibaldi. Between 1859 and 1861, the Papal State would have its land taken away by the Kingdom of Sardinia as it was trying to consolidate power to form this modern day Italy. Of all people, enter Napoleon's nephew. This is incredible. So this guy was named Louise Napoleon Bonaparte. He was President of the Second French Republic and was vying for Catholic support. So when the Pope saw Italian nationalism was on the rise, he felt threatened and asked Bonaparte to send French soldiers to the Papal State to offer protection. This was a problem for Italy because they wanted Rome as the capital of their new country, and that was being controlled by the Pope, which was now being militarily enforced by Napoleon's nephew, also named Napoleon. In 1870, the Franco Prussian War kicked off and Bonaparte was forced to pull his troops to go fight in Germany. That same year, Italian forces would breach the walls of Rome, annex it and make it their capital. So this wasn't meant to be a Bloodshed or outright rejection of the Papal state instead, that they just wanted to like reconfigure things a bit. And so what they did was they drafted up this thing called the Law of Guarantees. Basically it just like took away the sovereign elements of what the Pope had, but he was able to retain the church and the properties. And. But it was. But you're just like in Italy, like that's it. That's the key difference. You're not a sovereign state. You still have all your stuff. And they also were going to grant him 3.5 million Lear a year to cover expenses for running the church. So it wasn't like being. There weren't being like jerks about it.
>> Taylor: Right.
>> Farz: And you would have thought that would be great, but given how dramatically it reduced its power from even 300 years ago, the Pope at the time, Pope Pius, he totally rejected it. He was like, he was like, no, without sovereignty, I'm not going to do this. It wasn't until 1929, in the signing of the Lateran Treaty between Mussolini and the Pope at the time that they finally reached an agreement and Vatican City was established. Mussolini's involved in this. I went from, I went from Jesus to, to, to Charlemagne to Mussolini.
>> Taylor: I don't know anything about Mussolini, but it's kind of a s*** deal. Vacant city, small.
The Vatican went from an 18,000square mile empire to what is 109 acres
>> Farz: I want you to say more of that because the next thing I pointed out here was that that allowed the, allowed them to have sovereign control over Vatican. The Vatican, Vatican City state under the Pope. So he's still head of state there. But again, it went from an 18,000square mile empire to what is 109 acres.
>> Taylor: It's basically a beautiful church and a gift shop.
>> Farz: It's that small?
>> Taylor: Yeah, I mean, like. Okay, so I think it's not, I mean, 109 acres. I feel like when you go there, you stand in the middle of the piazza, whatever, and you look at, if the Pope is there, he comes out on his little balcony in waves. Otherwise you're kind of like filtered through the galleries and then into the Sistine Chapel and then out of it. Like there's not. I don't know, I, I just, I feel like that when you're a tourist, you kind of go in and out because then you can leave. It's like wall. It's a walled part inside of Rome and like the Swiss Guards with their funny little outfits are outside.
>> Farz: So I was, I was trying to put in context and perspective that I would understand what 109 acres is. I looked up how big? The Biltmore estate is in North Carolina, and it's 8,000 acres. So this is 80 times smaller. So that's still not great for scale. But, yeah, it's like.
>> Taylor: I feel like the. Like, how big is Universal Studios?
>> Farz: I mean, it's not crazy small.
>> Taylor: Yeah. So it's not super small, but it's like, you know.
>> Farz: Well, the other thing.
>> Taylor: I imagine that. Yeah, because it's like. Yeah, it's like. Because it's like the piazza and then, like, buildings around it.
>> Farz: Well, the other thing they granted them was that there's a bunch of other properties that is the Catholic Church's properties that are outside Vatican City in Italy. And one thing they did was they were like, listen, those properties are going to be on Italian land, but we'll treat it like a foreign embassy, essentially. You can do whatever you want there. Like, you have, like, immunity, whatever. Like, just. We're not going to intrude on your. Your stuff there. And so that's what the deal they ended up striking was. And that's kind of where they're at right now with things which is, like, again, just so interesting, like, how crazy this history is and how it intertwines with, like, so many things you learn in school and hear about. And it's all interconnected. There's stories in here that. There's a fun story where when Napoleon was gonna take his crown, the Pope was gonna give him the crown, but they still had this, like, contentious love, hate kind of a relationship with each other. And he grabs the crown from the Pope and is like, this doesn't come from God. I gave. I gave this myself. And, like, he, like, put it on his head.
>> Taylor: I remember I said that, because I did. I did Napoleon. Remember?
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: And I remember writing. I cannot stress this enough, that Napoleon put the crown on his own head.
>> Farz: And then. And then another thing. I don't know if you said this in that episode or not. One thing he did was he was gonna give, like, a gift, like a crown gift to the Pope. And usually these things are, like, made for fitting on your head, and they're like two pounds, Right. He ended up sending him, like, this, like, tiny hat that was £18 of jewels and gold, but just be a jerk.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: Just to be in Wayne.
>> Taylor: Absolutely. That's so funny.
>> Farz: He seems like. When I was. When I was reading the Napoleon par. I was like, this guy seems, like, crazy petty. Like, he seems like a very, very small person.
>> Taylor: Yep, indeed.
>> Farz: But that is. That is just, like, a surface level view of, like, all like some of the major events that ended up leading us to the current day Vatican City.
Taylor: It was very crowded in the Sistine Chapel
All that being said, Taylor, you've actually been there. You've touched it, You've smelled it, You've seen it. Like, what is it like?
>> Taylor: It was. Well, I mean, it was very crowded, so I felt like that was like a big takeaway. I went there, I think. Okay, that's Alice's Teen Chapel.
>> Farz: When did you go? When did you go?
>> Taylor: 2001.
>> Farz: Okay.
>> Taylor: What is the Socrates painting in Vatican City? There's a great. Oh, the School of Athens is a really cool fresco by Raphael. And that's in there. That's really cool. I remember seeing that. And then Sistine Chapel, obviously, is incredible. And is it. I feel like. Yes.
>> Farz: Is it inside the basilica or is it a separate building?
>> Taylor: I think it's the next door building.
>> Farz: Okay.
>> Taylor: Yeah. It's, like, connected, but it's like next to it because it's like just like a. It's like a cathedral. Like a long room with. There's no seats because you're. Everybody's just standing and staring up, you know.
>> Farz: So what do they do there again? Is it. Do they use it for service or what is it? Maybe that's where the conclave happens.
>> Taylor: Maybe they probably do things in there, but I don't know. I don't know.
>> Farz: But it's worth the visit. Like, it sounds like even. Just like the artwork you see is like, crazy.
>> Taylor: Oh, my God. The Sistine Chapel is insane. It's just absolutely incredible. It's incredible that essentially Michelangelo did it upside down, you know, and there's people who like, devote their lives to every single panel of it, you know, every single section. Like, what does this. What is this like? And it's a fresco. And I do remember in. When I was there, I took an art history, obviously art history class, and we had like a thing where we made a fresco. And it was so funny because it was so freaking hard because he painted on both this and the School of Athens are painted on wet plaster. So you have to paint really fast.
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: And then it's like, becomes the wall. It's not like they painted the wall. Like the wall is the painting, you know, and it's really hard, and it's beautiful. And we're very lucky that it still exists. I feel like a lot of these things, especially like, all of the Roman architecture. I think we talked about this last week. We're like, we're so lucky the David didn't get destroyed during World War II.
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: All that Stuff. My favorite picture of my brother Kincaid ever, as they're waiting for the Pope to come out in the piazza. And he's just standing there and it was so hot. And there were all these super excited nuns around him and he's like, oh my God, it's so hot. There's so many nuns. It's just really funny.
>> Farz: And did you see the Pope when you were there?
>> Taylor: I didn't, but I think Kincaid and my dad did because they were there at a different time than I was. Yeah, yeah.
>> Farz: Creation of Adam, Michelangelo. It's like, it's like every, like the best of the best of the best in art in terms of artwork. And like all of it is just like.
>> Taylor: Absolutely.
>> Farz: It's like tiny 109 acres. Like, it's like.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: So interesting.
>> Taylor: So if any one of the reviews is. People ruined. People ruined the experience because they were loud and just pushing and that is. I agree to that one. There were too many people, I assume.
>> Farz: I. You know what? I assume that's exactly what the Louvre is like. That's why I've never had any interest in seeing the Mona Lisa, because I'm like, I don't want to be around that many people.
>> Taylor: Exactly. It's really hard. Like being in a. Yeah. Being in a card museum is so annoying. You want to like, take your time and like sit and read and look and, and bring it in, but when people are pushing you. Yeah, it's annoying. Yeah, it's. I mean, wherever you go, it's wildly crowded. It's beautiful.
The Swiss Guards are police for Vatican City, essentially
The Swiss Guards are cool. I don't know why. Do you remember why Swiss Guards are there?
>> Farz: Because they got rid of the military. Because as part of the last accord they signed with Mussolini, they couldn't have a standing military. And it's. It's the Swiss Guards. And there's another thing I can't remember. It's a word I've literally never seen until I started researching a genderman or something. There's some sort of like they. Their function is that of like police for Vatican City, essentially.
>> Taylor: Right. I was going to ask you when that was done. So a Swiss guard get approximately €1500amonth, tax free. And they get free housing and their children's school fees are covered. So. And they get to the shop at a special tax free duty shop for the Swiss Guards. That's funny.
>> Farz: Well, I. I don't know if I'm gonna do like a multi part series on this, but like, man, there's so much.
>> Taylor: There's so many fun, like little Stories. I know. We love it.
>> Farz: I. I just learned. There was a Netflix show that came out, like, two years ago about this girl that went missing in the Vatican, who lived in the Vatican with her family. They still don't know what happened, but the more you dig into it, they found some mob bosses, like, remains in the papal tombs. It's, like, crazy. It's literally like the Da Vinci Code, except, like, real.
>> Taylor: I loved reading the Da Vinci Code. I was excited.
>> Farz: So interesting.
>> Taylor: Yeah. I was like, this is super fun. I love this stuff. Like, I love that there might be a secret in the middle of it. Like, remember they found the one king in England in a parking lot. Like, that does sound familiar. Of like a Sainsbury's, you know, it was like, there's like, there's so much stuff in Europe. It's like, underneath the ground. And Rome is just cool like that.
>> Farz: This thing will even, like, St. Peter. Like, I mean, you probably saw his tomb when you were there and then research it. You're like, well, they found, like, they found where Neurocircus is, and they found, like, where they think that the bot, he would have been, like, buried. They found all these different bones. Like, they did all this, like, maths forgot exactly who's who and which one is most likely his. They put him in the tomb in St. Peter's Basilica. But the tomb, what you're looking at is, like, not he's underneath it, but he's like a level underneath it. So you can go underneath the tomb into the Papal. So. But beneath the basilica is like, a graveyard of popes.
>> Taylor: Right.
>> Farz: The artwork is unbelievable. Like, look up papal tombs and look up some of the artwork around these guys. And it's just like. And I don't think you're even allowed to go in there. I think you have to do a special request in there. So I'm like, what else do you all have? Like, how many crazy pieces of artwork and how many, like, insane things are there that are, like, behind walls that nobody can ever access?
>> Taylor: Oh, yeah. What are the tombs in Indiana, Joe, in the Last Crusade. Are they in Rome? I don't remember in the beginning. Yeah, it's like the. But it's just like that, though. There's, like, beautiful stone headstone things everywhere. That's very exciting. So, yeah, we should go.
>> Farz: Yeah, I definitely. It's definitely on the list.
>> Taylor: Especially in Venice in the beginning. Yeah, I know. I will watch Conclave. I do want to.
>> Farz: Yeah. Tell me what you think of it afterwards. I have. I have opinions, but I'M not going to share them right now. I mean I think it's, I think it was great but like there I have some whatever. Cool. That's all I got. And who knows, maybe I'll do more Catholic church stuff next week or the week after. But like if y'all have ideas on this, like given the fact that there's a 2000 year history here, like there's so many different directions you can go in and all of them are fascinating and it's kind of hard to figure out which one you want to go after.
>> Taylor: So yeah like everything because like dedicator lives to just talking about this.
>> Farz: Totally. Totally. Yeah. Yeah. So write to us dmail.com find us on the socials.
Taylor: Morgan has a documentary about Antarctica coming out soon
Taylor, do you have anything for us?
>> Taylor: No, I did. Morgan did send something about her friend who is is doing like a has a documentary about Antarctica coming up so I'll share with that when that comes out because we were talking about Antarctica last week and that is pretty cool.
>> Farz: Sweet. Love it. Cool. If there's nothing else, we'll go in and sign off then.
>> Taylor: Cool. Yeah find us on all the socials. Did you say that already Doomed to fail Pod Patreon as well. Email doomtofillpodgmail.com all things thanks all things Taylor than.