For our last story for Pride Month, let's talk about Harvey Milk. Harvey was only in politics for a few years but he was groundbreaking in that he was an out gay man who encouraged others to also come out and share who they are. We'll cover Harvey's early life in NY, his time in the Navy, and what ultimately led him to Castro Street in San Francisco!
For our last story for Pride Month, let's talk about Harvey Milk. Harvey was only in politics for a few years but he was groundbreaking in that he was an out gay man who encouraged others to also come out and share who they are. We'll cover Harvey's early life in NY, his time in the Navy, and what ultimately led him to Castro Street in San Francisco!
Source - The Mayor of Castro Street: The Life & Times of Harvey Milk
https://www.thriftbooks.com/w/the-mayor-of-castro-street-the-life-and-times-of-harvey-milk_randy-shilts/279686/?
Hi Friends! Our transcripts aren't perfect, but I wanted to make sure you had something - if you'd like an edited transcript, I'd be happy to prioritize one for you - please email doomedtofailpod@gmail.com - Thanks! - Taylor
Taylor: I have a desert tortoise. He's wonderful. A very chill pet
>> Taylor: In the matter of the people of the State of California vs. Orenthal James Simpson, case number BA097.
>> Farz: And so, my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you.
>> Taylor: Ask what you can do.
>> Farz: Boom. Taylor, we are live. How are you?
>> Taylor: I'm good.
>> Farz: How's BFG or not?
>> Taylor: Oh, my God. Yeah. Bfg.
>> Farz: Okay. Sorry.
>> Taylor: Ben Franklin's ghost. He's wonderful. He's very. A very chill pet. I know you just mentioned that you got have another dog at your house. Tortoise is nothing like a dog. He like, is outside. Well, we put him outside during the day and he just like finds a shady spot, but he's tired because he lived at like the zoo and like a smaller pen. Now he has like a pretty big yard to walk around. So he gets tired and then we bring him in around like four and give him a bunch of lettuce and then he goes to sleep.
>> Farz: That's so cute. He is.
>> Taylor: I send you a picture. Oh, my God. He. We got him this tiny flower pot that's just his size and we just like stick his head in the flower pot and put him in there and he crawls all the way in and he sleeps for like 15 hours.
>> Farz: That's so adorable. I'm jealous of the low maintenance element of your pet.
>> Taylor: No, I think he's going to do great outside. He liked a little burrow that we built him and yeah, he's. I think he's doing good.
>> Farz: And at least for now. You have to bring him inside, I take it.
>> Taylor: Yes. Well, they said to bring him inside just because he's a. He's kind of small, but I actually think he'd be fine back there. I don't know if we'd like, have to have to, but we want to because what?
>> Farz: Like, if you don't, then maybe like, Al will get to him or what? Okay.
>> Taylor: Yeah. I don't think any, like, land animal could get to him because we put up like plastic corrugated thing that you would put on top of a patio all the way around the fence. So, like, he can't see out. Nothing can see in. And so I think that like, a coyote is not going to jump that fence to eat him.
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: But I would worry about like a hawk.
>> Farz: Yeah, yeah, yeah.
>> Taylor: He's not that small. He's kind of big. I don't know. Anyway, I have a desert tortoise. He will live here forever. He's amazing.
>> Farz: It is very cool. I love your desert tortoise. And please keep sending me pictures as often as you'd like.
>> Taylor: I will.
We are going to reduce a little bit of our recording schedule
>> Farz: Sweet. Well, why don't I bring up something that we were discussing that's going to be a little bit of a change to the show format going forward.
>> Taylor: Cool.
>> Farz: So we are going to reduce a little bit of our recording schedule and release once a week instead of twice a week.
>> Taylor: And I think it's totally fair. Yeah.
>> Farz: I hope there's not a ton of drop off or maybe, you know, folks can give more feedback between episodes on what they like, what they didn't like. But yeah, it's summer break coming up and we wanted to take a little bit easy on ourselves, and so that was kind of our compromise. So.
>> Taylor: Cool.
>> Farz: So I was. We're going to do one. We're actually going to record twice today, but we're going to release one this coming week and then the next episode the following week. So. Yeah, this idea.
>> Taylor: Exactly. And if you haven't listened to all of our episodes, we have like a million. So go back and listen to them.
>> Farz: Yeah. We have a huge catalog at this point.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: Sweet. So, Taylor, are you going to go first today?
>> Taylor: I think so. Cool.
Taylor: We bring you history's most notorious disasters and failures
Okay. But first, we're doomed to fail.
>> Farz: Oh.
>> Taylor: We bring you history's most notorious disasters and failures. And I am Taylor, joined by Fars. And now I'm ready.
>> Farz: Okay. Thank you for the reminder.
Harvey Milk was the first openly gay elected official in California
>> Taylor: I am going to, for my last episode for Pride Month, talk about Harvey Milk.
>> Farz: Oh, nice.
>> Taylor: Yeah, I haven't. I saw the movie a long time ago. Did you?
>> Farz: I. I saw it so long ago. I just know James Franco was in it and Sean Penn played him, but I don't know. And I know he was killed by another city council member, but like, I don't know. Every. Did I just ruin everything?
>> Taylor: No. Everybody knows that.
>> Farz: Okay.
>> Taylor: I think that's like, that's, that's the. That's the basic. That. That was actually my next line. Harvey Milk held the elected position of supervisor, which means city council in San Francisco. He was the first openly gay elected official in California and one of the first in the nation. And he was assassinated by a former co worker at City hall.
>> Farz: What year?
>> Taylor: 1978. Wow.
>> Farz: It took that long to have an openly gay office holder. Is that what you said?
>> Taylor: Elected office? Yeah.
>> Farz: Oh, wow. Yeah, there's probably a ton that just weren't.
>> Taylor: Of course. Right, exactly right. Like, there's. Of course.
>> Farz: It's like, I remember Michael Sams came out as gay in NFL and I was like, there's probably like a ton.
>> Taylor: There's just no way, you know, and.
>> Farz: Like, probably statistically it's impossible.
>> Taylor: It's possible. And many of those people also probably never told anybody they were gay anyway. You know what I mean? Like, it was just like, for whatever reason, or hopefully they did or whatever. Did you ever see. Did you ever watch that stupid Will Ferrell movie about Eurovision?
>> Farz: No.
>> Taylor: It's so good. It's just like, it's him and Rachel McAdams, and they, like, are, like, Icelandic people who put a song into Eurovision. And at one point, she meets someone from Russia, and the guy from Russia is like, there are no gay people in Russia, even though he's, like, very clearly gay. And she's like, statistically, there have to be. And he's like, nope. So, like, exactly. Exactly that. But Harvey Milk was the first openly gay person elected to public office in California and one of the first in the nation. So this is really. I've been sad all morning because I kind of got to the end of the book yesterday afternoon and then this morning. But his big thing was to be out and proud and don't hide yourself, and don't let them force you to hide. You know, that was, like, his. His big things. I read the book the Mayor of Castro street by Randy Schiltz, and this was written in, like, 1980. So, like, really quickly after all of this happened was the book. So it was good. I recommend it.
Harvey Bernard Milk was born in New York in 1930
So Harvey Bernard Milk was born on May 22, 1930, in Woodmere, New York, which is just outside of JFK. So, like, very close to the city. Like, you could say you've lived in, like, Queens, kind of. He had one older brother named Robert. His parents were both in the Navy, which is cool. And, like, they're both military people, and then they settle down in Long island area. And while he was very young, Harvey would go to the city and, like, watch the opera. And he. While he was there, he would, like, meet men in Central park because he knew he was gay and he was sexually active by the time he was, like, a young teenage.
>> Farz: Sure.
>> Taylor: In, like, private. You know, in, like, not private. In, like, the Woods.
>> Farz: Rambles.
>> Taylor: Yes. And this is, like the 1940s, you know, so, like, lavender scare stuff that you talked about in the past is, like, happening now as well. He. During World War II, I'm pretty sure that his parents, like, knew that he was. That he was gay or that something was different. They told him about how in Warsaw, before World War II, Germany had been heading. Headed towards having gay rights. Like, and we had talked about this, like, before. Like, parts of that part of Europe had been Very progressive. And then obviously took like, a huge turn. And gay people were some of the first people to be killed in concentration camps.
>> Farz: Yep.
>> Taylor: So he was, like, aware of this, and his parents tell him about it. Harvey went to college in Albany. He wrote for the newspaper. He played sports. After college, he just left. He never really returned. People, like, thought that was kind of weird. Like, some people would come back for reunions and such. He was like, whatever. He was a Goldwater Republican and conservative. And he was a. Officially Republican until 1972, when he became a Democrat. After college, he went into the Navy. It was the Korean War. And he was a diving officer at a submarine rescue. Rescue ship. And then a diving instructor in San Diego. So he was pretty successful in the Navy. But in 1955, he resigned at the rank of lieutenant junior grade because he was forced to accept an other than honorable discharge rather than be court martialed because they found out that he was gay.
>> Farz: Got it.
>> Taylor: Which they were doing, you know, all the time. So something to point out now is that happened a lot. So men would join the military for Korea and for Vietnam and for, like, these wars. And before they got sent out to war, they would go to California to. To do basic training and such. Then if they were caught or like, outed in some way for being gay, they would just stay. That's why there's a. That's why that when Harvey starts, like, doing his political stuff in San Francisco, there's a lot of gay men. Because a lot of them stayed after being discharged from the military because they couldn't go home.
>> Farz: No way. That's why San Francisco's gay.
>> Taylor: Yeah, that's a big part of it. Because a lot of people would end up there. And they get kind of stranded there. And then what's the option? You go home to, like, Kansas and tell your parents that you got kicked out of the Navy or being gay. No, you just stay, you know, so this way you can, like, stay in a community where people are like you and you can start trying to live and look at outlife. So that's kind of where it started, but still very early. It's in, like, the 50s and the 60s. So Harvey didn't do that yet. He wasn't California yet. But that made a lot of sense to me as, like, a reason why there'd be a lot of people there.
>> Farz: That means, like, if Alabama was where they did training for the Navy, then it would be the gay capital of the world.
>> Taylor: Could have been, I don't know. Does Alabama hit an ocean? I Don't know a river.
>> Farz: I, I, I don't, I don't know geography either.
>> Taylor: I mean, I probably couldn't, couldn't put it out on a map, but I could try. hold on. My water. Harvey also in his life, has a lot of boyfriends and lovers. He's one of those guys who, like, didn't believe in monogamy. Just wants to like, you know, hook up with a bunch of people, maybe have someone at home, that kind of thing. His type was like a young, skinny guy was Harvey's type. His longest relationship was one of his first relationships with a man named Joe Campbell. So they met in New York and they lived together and then they moved to Dallas. And even though they lived together and were like, you know, roommates, quote, quote, quote all the things, when they got to Dallas, they couldn't get jobs because they were Jewish, so they had to move back.
>> Farz: I did not know Harvey Milk was Jewish. That is. Yeah. Wow. Okay. Yeah, they ran into every wood chipper. It's like, it's like anti Semitism, homophobia, like the whole thing.
>> Taylor: Exactly. So they moved back to New York and It's the late 1950s. While they were there, Joe like gilded furniture. And Harvey tried to find a job because he had studied math and he was a teacher for a little bit. He's also a little bit like, I think Harvey Milk was a little bit, I don't know what the word is.
Harvey Milk was a product of his time, definitely. I think back then like a 40 year old being with
I want to say, like controlling in his relationships as well, because he would like love bomb Joe and then like also like control what he did a little bit. That's kind of a thing that keeps going for him because his, his partners are, his partners stay the same and he gets older, you know, so when he's like in his 40s dating someone in their early 20s, he has so much control. But they also just like sends them tons of flowers and love notes and all these things, so they can't really like live their own life. So that's something that his partner seemed to have a little bit of contention with. As we go through a story, can.
>> Farz: I be like just a product of the times? Like.
>> Taylor: Oh, absolutely.
>> Farz: I think like back then like a 40 year old being with like a 20 year old wasn't seen as gross as I think most people see that today.
>> Taylor: Yeah, no, totally.
>> Farz: So anyways, we're all product of our times.
>> Taylor: Yeah, it's all also all sorts of things. So eventually they, him and Joe break up and he gets into other relationships. One of his partners, Craig Rodwell, is one of the people who was considered one of the leading rights activists pre Stonewall, he opened up a bookshop called the Oscar Wilde Memorial Bookshop in New York that was there until it closed in 2009. And he was one of the first people to advocate for a pride parade. So Harvey isn't political, but he's around people who are, like, starting to bring up a political. We got to do something.
>> Farz: Yeah. The first step is typically advocacy, because it's something that you can attach yourself to easily. And then you start getting into granular details. The policy, and then you get political.
>> Taylor: Exactly. Yes. So I did. I'm like, what happened? I'm getting a text message. I'm like, what? Okay, I'm doing that. So Harvey tries to be a teacher. He tries to be a stockbroker. But, like, he doesn't like regular jobs. And he decides to become a hippie because it's, like, the time. So we never see him with long hair. I don't think I would ever picture him with long hair, but he had, like, long hippie hair. He's very tall, and he would just, like, wear, like, whatever he felt like later when he wears suits, because you'll see him in suits when he's, like, a politician. They're all secondhand. Like, they're all, like, threadbare. When they go through his closet after his death, they, like, can't find anything that matches. Like, he just, like, really didn't. He just, like, kind of let that part not bother him. So while he was a hippie, he moved to San Francisco and just hung out for a while. He had, like, a very young boyfriend who was a teenager, and they would, like, do puzzles and, like, hang out, which also, I think, is a product of your time.
>> Farz: That's a little more problematic also. It's funny, when you're talking about long hair and, like, picturing him, I literally just pictured Sean Penn with long hair.
>> Taylor: I know. I did kind of, too, and it was weird, and I hated it. So he also. He's traveling with some Broadway productions of Hair and Jesus Christ Superstar, which is fun. And he's kind of doing nothing. And he's in San Francisco. He goes back to New York, just kind of, like, fiddling around, not really having a job. 1971, he's back in New York, and he meets a man named Scott Smith. And him and Scott moved back to San Francisco in 1971. Yes.
>> Farz: Okay.
>> Taylor: Yeah. A lot of. I don't think there's, like, one gay person involved in the making of the movie Milk, but Yes.
>> Farz: Sounds right. So someone in the design.
>> Taylor: Maybe. Maybe like a hairdresser. Maybe like one. So in 1973, Harvey has a roll of film developed, and the place ruins it. And he's annoyed, so he starts a camera store. It's on Castro street in San Francisco, and it is called Castro Camera. It's never going to make any money, but it's actually going to be a decision that plops him in the right place to be part of the gay rights movement and to, like, become a leader. Castro street is a place with, like, a lot of gay businesses. It still is. Now. It's like, now. Now it's expensive.
>> Farz: But then it was like, Castro blows my mind. Because it is expensive. And you would never know it when you're there because a. The people walking around look absolutely homeless and probably are. And I was getting my car broken into there, and I was like, this is a nice part of town.
>> Taylor: I know I haven't really been in San Francisco, but I've been in, like, Oakland. I've been like, it's not great here. But continue. Try your best.
>> Farz: Right?
Harvey says he needs gay vote and the gay dollar to win
>> Taylor: So now we're in San Francisco, and we'll. We'll talk politics there. Around. Around the Castro in the area. So things are starting to happen because there's so many gay people, and they're actually starting to, like, talk about it now. So we have this, like, part of town, it's District 5, where people are kind of are moving. There are different people running for mayor, but you do need the gay vote and the gay dollar to win. So there are candidates that go and talk to the gay community because they know that they need them. The police department of San Francisco is very, very conservative, so that's something to remember. And also another politician who's part of the story is Dianne Feinstein, who enters the picture right about now. So she knows. She's a. She's a moderate liberal, and she knows that she needs the gay community. But privately and legislatively, she's wary of it. We knew. We know people who've worked for her. I know she has since passed. We know people who really like her. I do know that, like, one thing that she did that is not great is when they were searching for Richard Ramirez. Remember this part of the Night Stalker story? He wore, like, a very specific shoe. And she announced it in a press conference. But, like, that's like, my big memory dying Feinstein. But what she goes through the day that Harvey dies is really wild. So we'll talk about that later. But she's like, on the supervisor board with him and. And other people as well. So at this point, Harvey says, quote, he's kind of like messing. Like, not messing with, but like the police are starting to mess with the area. The. They're not getting, like, their tax dollars spent the right way. And Harvey says, quote, I finally reached the point where I knew I had to become involved or shut up. He couldn't continue to yell about it and not do anything. So he starts to run for office, and he starts with the office of supervisor, which you're exactly right. It's like city council. San Francisco still has 11 supervisors. Each one of them is for a specific district. They oversee city services, neighborhood concerns, local laws, that kind of thing.
>> Farz: They're like, weirdly powerful, like in California, in San Francisco, because you have to think about, like, the size and scale of the amount of resources, economic resources in California and San Francisco. Like, those people actually wield real power.
>> Taylor: Yeah, yeah. So he. It's his first election. He still has long hair, it's still a little scrubby. And the person he's like, technically going against, his biggest competition is sort of like the next in line guy, you know, so he really doesn't have a chance to win. But he does get a lot of votes, like, more than people thought that he would. Would get. He comes in 10th out of 32, which, you know, isn't last.
>> Farz: That's actually not that bad.
>> Taylor: Yeah. And while right before he gets. Does get elected supervisor, eventually they'll change the law, but at this moment in time, his first, his first campaign, the way you vote is it's just Whoever the top 11 people for supervisor in the whole city are, become that board because all the supervisors, but they change law so that it's district by district. Because even in this first election, if it was just District 5 that Castro. The Castro district is in, he would have won that district.
>> Farz: Oh, so it. It was. Well, that. No, that's not ranked choice voting. I guess it is kind of like ranked choice voting.
>> Taylor: Well, you're only voting for kind of. But you're. But you're.
>> Farz: Well, it's not like range choice voting. Range choice voting takes, like, there's still one person that wins at the end of.
>> Taylor: Right.
>> Farz: The ballot. So.
>> Taylor: Right. This one is just like the top however many people or whatever. Or like, I think you run for certain spots, but like, it's like you're running for spot number whatever, but it doesn't correlate to a place you're living necessarily. So. So he would have won if it had correlated to just that area. So that's why, like, part of the reason that he campaigned to make that stop so you could actually be in your district and represent it. So that they changed after Harvey's death. They changed it back to being a citywide election. And then as far as I can tell, right now, it's back to being district level. So, like, it went a couple times.
>> Farz: It makes so much more sense. Like, I don't.
>> Taylor: Of course it does. Yeah. So he is kind. He's also unofficially now the mayor of Castro Street. He's getting people super involved. His. His apartment above the camera store, it's like a campaign center. Everyone's always like, you know, they have a problem, they come to him, and he can. He can help them fix it. He also. A big part of his philosophy also is not just for gay people. He wants to work for everyone. So he became a really big supporter of unions. The Teamsters endorsed him. Him and the Teamsters had a thing where the. The Teamsters wanted a union and Coors Beer wouldn't sign. So all of the gay bars boycotted Coors Beer.
The Castro area is super interesting. People can go there and feel safe
And it worked, and they. They ended up signing the contract. So he was able to, like, do things like that, to be like, we have economic power here in the gay community, you know?
>> Farz: Nice.
>> Taylor: Yeah. Then he became friends with a lot of these, like. So these, like, scruffy Teamster union guys would, like, come down to the Castro street to help with the campaign, which was always fun because they'd be like.
>> Farz: That had to be a site for.
>> Taylor: Both parties for everyone, what's going on. So the Castro area is super interesting. People can go there and feel safe. They can come there and find community. Sometimes it would be annoying to some of the people who had lived there longer that, like, all the new gays look the same. You know, they'd all come and, like, have the same outfit, and they kind of look similar, but then they just finally wanted to feel like they belonged somewhere, you know, and it was like, kind of a new phenomenon to figure out who they are in a place where they can be themselves.
>> Farz: You know, it's literally every town. I mean. Yeah, they say the same thing with Austin. When I got here, like, don't. California, my Austin? It was like, this is just the nature of things.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: Demographics change, and you have to adjust.
>> Taylor: Exactly. That's hilarious. So it's also bad because prices became insane. And we talked about this too. Like, you. But you were saying, like, you know, a lot of people wouldn't. Couldn't afford Their houses. Or, like, old. Like, Catholic families would sell their house for, like, you know, a little. For however much money. And then a year later, it'd be worth six times as much. You know, like, that stuff goes up. Harvey and Scott, they get priced out of the caster camera in their apartment. They have to move. Like, the whole neighborhood just becomes really expensive, like, really quickly. But Harvey decides to get serious and, like, get those suits and cut his hair and, like, really have an actual campaign for supervisors. So he runs again, 1975, and he loses, but it's very, very close. And so this is the second campaign he loses, but he's. He's super close this time. And the new mayor that is elected that night is George Moscone. George Moscone is an Italian guy from California. He visits Harvey in his campaign office that night and is like, I know you lost, but I want you in my cabinet. Which is huge because they acknowledge Harvey's campaign, like, the day that he wins to be mayor of San Francisco. So George Moscone, just other things about him. He had been key in repealing sodomy laws in California. So always someone, like, forwarding progressive causes. He appointed a police chief that. Some said it was okay for police officers to be gay. And it made the police, like, it boiled the pot even more for them, you know, because, like, most of them were really p***** that that would be a thing. But like you said, like, they're already there, right? So Dr. Moscone was born on November 24, 1929. He's just a year older than Harvey. He would be known as the people's mayor. He was also in Korea. He had worked his way up in politics. He was a state senator before this. He had four children. And he seems like a pretty okay guy. Just FYI, that's the mayor of San Francisco.
>> Farz: All right, we're fans.
>> Taylor: We'll get back to him. So things aren't, like. Just because, like, this is happening and Harvey is, like, in the middle of this movement. There aren't. Things aren't perfect. There are definitely gay people who are getting murdered, you know, getting, like, picked up on, like, a street corner and then killed. Things like that are happening. There are police beatings. There's, like, all sorts of other things happening. And in the meantime, Harvey is kind of working frantically to get this position, to help his friends in the district, to, like, help make everyone's just go better. He's in his mid-40s, and he does not think he will make it to 50. He talks about it all the time he says, I don't have much time. I'm not going to be able to do this forever. Things like that. He brings it up a lot to his friends. And he works, like, a very feverish pace.
Milk Harvey is the first openly gay city commissioner in the United States
And have you. I know you haven't. I know you haven't seen Hamilton first. But I just wanted to just ask if. You haven't.
>> Farz: You are correct.
>> Taylor: Okay, so in Hamilton, the second act. With the second act of Things are always so sad. But in the second act, which is the sad act of Hamilton. His wife sings him a song that is like, why do you write like, you're running out of time? Like, why are you so. Like, why can't you stop working? And that's kind of what Harvey was doing now. He was writing like he was running out of time. Like, he had no reason to actually think this. But he was, like, working like he was not going to make it to 50. In 1976, Mayor Moscone appoints Milk Harvey to the Board of Permit Appeals. Who is in the cap in the offices, but it makes him the first openly gay city commissioner in the United States. But he leaves that job within, like, eight months to go run for supervisor a third time. So, by the way, when he is in that job and when he is a supervisor, he will be in the San Francisco City hall. Which is a building that he loves, and it has a grand staircase. And he always takes the stairs. He would never take the elevator. He was very. He just, like, loved being in the grandeur of the building. So after that district bill was passed. Where it was like, every district votes for their own supervisor. He. He runs in 1978. And this is when he does win. He runs against a man named Art Agnos. And Art Agnos likes him and tells him to talk about hope. He's like, they debate all the time. And he's like, harvey, you're too. Your stuff is a little bit too. Too sad. You gotta think about hope. You gotta think about, like, good things. So he's, you know, working on that. And there's also an interesting side note is while they don't endorse him. He does get a lot of help from the People's Temple. You know who that is?
>> Farz: I do recall this. Yeah, this is Jim Jones.
>> Taylor: That's Jim Jones. So his folks are in San Francisco right now. Kind of, you know, living in, like, a high security compound, you know, doing all that. And he's. Harvey says, quote, to a. To a staffer. He says, quote, make sure you're always nice to the people's temple. If they ask you to do something, do it. And then send them a note thanking them for asking you to do it. Because he, like, knew that they're crazy. Pretty. Pretty much.
>> Farz: Well, they're crazy, but they also had, like, a ton of power because there was, like, one voting constituency. Like, a single.
>> Taylor: Exactly. So he's like, be super nice to them, but be wary. You know, like, something's weird. So he's also a bit of a mess. He's not sleeping. He's up and down. He's just, like, trying to get this campaign over. Him and Scott break up because Scott's a little bit like, I fell in love with the hippie. And, like, who are you? You know? Because now he's, like, really, like, trying to be a politician. And Harvey continues on his campaign.
A special election in Miami pulled back a bunch of gay rights laws
And it's also a time in America where Christian conservatives are freaking out. And one big thing that was happening in Florida, in Dade County, Miami, is a woman named Anita Bryant had a campaign called Save Our Children, which was like, save our kids from every bad thing that gay people are doing to them. And she won by a lot. It was, like, a special election, and there was rioting all over the country for this. And so gay people are starting to see their rights as they were slowly getting them. They're slowly getting taken away as well. Because it's, like, out in the zeitgeist that people are worried about it.
>> Farz: You know, what did she run for?
>> Taylor: And when she didn't run for anything, she. She passed a special legislation to, like, stop. To, like, pull back a bunch of gay rights laws in Miami, in Florida.
>> Farz: Okay, all right.
>> Taylor: They had, like, bid forward and then weren't after she wins in. In California, a San Francisco, California state senator named John Briggs, he sees an opening and tried. Tries to do the same thing. He has, like, another bill that would ban gays and lesbians from teaching in public schools throughout California. And then privately he told the author of the book I read, it's just politics. Like, I don't really have anything against gay people. You know, he's just trying to, like, find that vote and win.
>> Farz: Yeah, that's what, like, most people running for office do. They just follow the herd.
>> Taylor: Yeah. So Harvey wins, and it's very exciting. And because of the redistricting, like, the making it. You voted for your. Your own supervisor also, when he was sworn in, was a single mother, a black woman, and a Chinese American. And those were all firsts, too.
>> Farz: Nice.
>> Taylor: Because, like, of course, people want people who look like them. To represent them, you know.
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: Which is exciting. And then also who was sworn in the same day as Harvey Milk is Supervisor Dan White. So Dan White was born on September 2, 1946. He was in Vietnam. He's 16 years younger than Harvey. He was a police officer. He was a firefighter. He had a history of beating up black people. He saved a woman and her baby from a building when he was a fireman. And the paper calls him All American. You know, he's just like a all American white guy who's not great. He was married and had three children. And he was a Democrat, but he was on the more conservative side. So a lot. So like I said, there are 11 supervisor positions. So he was like the sixth vote to stop a lot of the things that Harvey wanted to do. A bunch. And that they started to get kind of frustrated with each other. But when Harvey was a supervisor, he actually. This is interesting. And it applies to you literally right now. He helped pass laws that you have to clean up your own dog poop in San Francisco. Now that people do that, I hope they should.
>> Farz: No, I think it's human poop they don't clean up. I think they clean up after dogs. Yeah.
>> Taylor: Yeah, okay. Well, he was one of the first people to do. To put laws on that. He wanted tax reforms, new industries in the neighborhood, low cost housing. He, you know, worked with other minority groups and labor unions because he was like, we're not just going to serve gay interests. We're going to help everyone when we have the opportunity. He, his, his big accomplishment was an anti discrimination ordinance from 1978 where it protected gay men and lesbians from discrimination in housing, employment and public accommodations for the city. So that was like really great. And the New York Times was like, this is the most stringent and encompassing in the nation of all gay rights laws. So super good stuff happening. And that passed as well. He also, again, insisted that people don't remain. Don't keep silent that they talk about who they are. So he said, quote, the US, the US's, those have been oppressed. I'm tired of the conspiracy of silence. So I'm going to talk about it. And I want you to talk about it. You must come out. So it was like he kept continuing to be loud about it. He has. In 1978, he. His most popular speech is the Hope speech. And he talked about, you know, well, here. Well, he did this after a parade where it's a picture you might see of him where he's unconvertible and has A big sign and, like, a lay around his neck. The sign says, I'm from Woodmere, New York. So he wanted people to say all the places that they were from and they all got together in San Francisco and how they felt safe there. Part of that speech is very similar to saying, like, we have to come out. We will not win our rights by staying quietly in our closets. We have to come out to fight the lies and the myths and the distortions. So he, you know, was really a big advocate in that he. His personal life while he was supervisor. And, like, up into that campaign. After him and Scott broke up, he dated a man named Jack Lira who was, like, definitely an alcoholic. And would cause scenes everywhere that they went. Like, he would just, like, always be yelling and causing commotion.
>> Farz: Even when you're gay, you can't escape it. It's like, there's always that partner when you're, like, successful who's just, like. Just an absolute dumpster fire that follows you around and causes a scene.
Dan White and Harvey Milk get along initially, but eventually grow apart
>> Taylor: Yeah, everybody. Everybody was embarrassed. Like, it was terrible. And so they broke up. And then one day, Harvey gets back into his apartment. And he finds a series of notes on the ground leading to the back of the apartment where Jack has died by suicide by hanging himself. And that's pretty selfish.
>> Farz: That's pretty awful and selfish. And, yeah, I don't feel bad for him. I think he's a piece of. For doing that to him.
>> Taylor: He left, like, mean notes all over the apartment. Like, hid them in places so Harvey would find them later.
>> Farz: What a piece of.
>> Taylor: Like, horrible. Like, he. Harvey met his mother at the funeral, and his mom said, this isn't your fault. Like, he was just like this, you know? So initially, Dan White and Harvey Milk get along. They both are new to being supervisors. Harvey was. Went to Dan's son's baptism. Like, they were. They were. They got along, and they started to kind of grow apart pretty quickly. Often, like I said, White was a sixth vote in stopping things from getting passed. And White became really frustrated with his role as a supervisor. So he quits. So on November 10th, I think we're in 1978. Okay, November 10th, 1978. They've, like, barely been in. In their office. They haven't even had a whole year as supervisors. Dan White decides to quit. So he's the other guy that was, like, the all American police officer guy. He quits. He has a potato stand on a pier that he wants the more time at, which, like, I also want some more time at a potato stand.
>> Farz: So sorry. What's a potato stand? He just gives you raw potatoes.
>> Taylor: No, they give you cooked potatoes.
>> Farz: Like a baked potato. Just hands you a whole baked potato. And then while you're walking on the pier, you just spoon baked potato in your face.
>> Taylor: I feel like you're saying that like it's a bad thing.
>> Farz: How does it sound weird to you? You know, this is weird. Like, would you ever walk up to a guy and like, give me a hot potato to walk around with? This is my walking.
>> Taylor: Not like a random person, but if it was a man in like a potato shaped truck, yes, I would.
>> Farz: Okay. All right. But still no coconuts. The. The walking around potato, yes, but definitely not a coconut.
>> Taylor: Yeah, no, I'll definitely walk around the big potato. I have no problem doing that.
Dan White quits and then comes back a couple of days later
So the equivalent salary to today's money, it's about like $47,000 a year. So Dan was like, I have four kids. I can't have my family on this. This amount of money. And he. Because he has to also take care of his potato sand. So he resigns. He. He writes a letter to Moscone. He says, I'm not. I don't want to be a supervisor anymore. So Moscone says, great, thank you. Whatever. Make some calls. And they're going to move on. He has to appoint someone new. So he has to make a decision to figure out who it's going to be. But in the meantime, Dan White changes his mind. He goes back like, remember that episode of Seinfeld where George quits and then pretends he didn't?
>> Farz: I never saw that.
>> Taylor: That's almost exactly what is happening right now. He quits and then comes back and he's like, well, I want my job back. Let's just get to you back. You don't have to do anything else. I'm going to go. And he's like, well, I can't really do that. You already quit. Like, I already have gears in motion to appoint someone else. So they're trying to figure out, like, exactly what to do. So Dan's mad, but he wants his job back anyway. So in the meantime. So that's around. Pretend when he quits. And then a couple of days later, he wants to come back.
>> Farz: Do we know why he wants to come back?
>> Taylor: I think he was getting pressured by his constituency of more conservative people. They're like, they're going to replace you with someone who is more progressive. That's not what you promised us, you know, and getting, like, pressure, like, we're not going to come to your potato stands.
>> Farz: Yeah, we're going to boycott potatoes.
>> Taylor: Yeah. So that. That's why it was. Because people are pressuring him to go back. Because they were like, they're going to find someone who doesn't represent what we represent as the more conservative faction of this district. So he's getting that. That kind of pressure. So November 17th and 18th. So just a week after Dan White quits. Is when the People's Temple all die by suicide in Guyana. So they had just went there, and Congressman Leo Ryan went to go see some of the families in San Francisco. Had asked him to go and check on their friends. Because most of the People's Temple family were in San Francisco. And then he gets killed. News reporters get killed, and then 900 people or so die by suicide. So everyone's running around trying to figure out what to do. Because this is, like, obviously a trial tragedy for the community. Because they knew those people and they worked with them. And they were like, how could this have happened? Dan White says, quote, you see that? One day I'm on the front page, and the next I'm swept right off when the news coverage went away from him. Which is a s***** thing to say. 900 people died. So November 27th is the day. 1978 is the day that Moscone is about to announce White's replacement. The night before Harvey Milk goes to the opera, called a bunch of friends. He writes a letter that says, I went to the opera today. It was beautiful. Life is worth living. And mailed it off to a friend in New York. That friend wouldn't get that letter until after he was dead.
>> Farz: Yikes.
>> Taylor: He called a bunch of people and, like, talked on the phone for longer than usual. Which also reminds me a little bit of, like, you're running out of time. Like, what do you do when. You know, when you have a feeling, you know. So he did all of that, and the next day, he went to work like normal. That day, Moscone was supposed to announce White's replacement. And Diane White decides to go to City Hall. And he can't walk in the front doors because he has a gun. So he crawls through a window in the basement to avoid the metal detectors. And someone sees him. And he's like, oh, just in a hurry. Like, that's not normal. What are you talking about? He goes to Moscone's office. Scone is like, dan, I can't put you back in your position, but let's, like, talk this out. He takes him to, like, a. He's like a second part of his office, where he has, like, a little bar. He, like, makes him a drink, and he's like, let's just talk about it. And Dan White takes off, takes out his gun, shoots Moscone in the shoulder and the chest and then the head. And he is now bleeding out and dying on the floor of his office. People didn't really hear it because it was kind of like a back part of the muffled office. So Dan White leaves, and the person who's supposed to meet with Moscone next is waiting outside. He doesn't go in until five minutes after the time that he was supposed to meet with him. But he's like, what?
Dan White shoots Harvey Milk three times in the body
Is he. Is he okay? What's going on? You know?
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: And by that time, he's dead. Dan White walks to his old office through the hall. While he's walking, he refills his gun.
>> Farz: Was he mad at Ms. Scone because he was going to continue on to assign a seat to someone else?
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: Okay, so it was revenge.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: Okay.
>> Taylor: Yeah. He walks back to his office. He passes Dianne Feinstein's office and her assistant to try to get his attention, like, we need to talk to you. Because they knew that, like, he was going to be mad about this. They didn't know. They'd already talked to the mayor. They didn't know the mayor was dead. They were just like, you know, what. What's going on? He sees. Sees Harvey. Him and Harvey walk into a room together, and he shoots Harvey three times in the body. Those three shots would not have killed him, but he shoots him again in the head, and that did it. Harvey Milk's last words were, oh, no.
>> Farz: Do we know why he wanted to kill Harvey? Why didn't he kill Feinstein?
>> Taylor: I think he was. Harvey was the person who was most excited about him not being on the board anymore.
>> Farz: He was probably lobbying Moscone.
>> Taylor: Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Lobbying Moscone to replace him. He didn't want him on the board anymore. Yeah. Yeah. So White leaves City hall in the meantime, like, Dianne Feinston hears shots from her office, and people go running to try to figure out what to do. She will become mayor because the mayor has died and she was the chair of the board. And then eventually, she'll also want her win her election the next. The next time it's an actual election. Dan White leaves, meets his wife at a train station, goes out to dinner, and then turns himself in. So he just. They all know it was him, and they're all, like, looking for him. A lot of Harvey Milk's friends will find out about it on the news because. And it'll kind of be like, the mayor's been killed. And then. And someone else. And they're like, who else is it? That's the news across the country. A lot of them find out that way. So as far as, like, who replaced Harvey Milk and all of those. That. All those things, that's sort of like a whole other thing. But one thing that it was wild is he had a tape that was like, play this in case I get assassinated, essentially.
>> Farz: And it was like, he knew his fate.
>> Taylor: If I get shot in the head, play this. And it listed people who he thought could be replacements for him, who he thought shouldn't be a replacement for him. His friends will run. One of his campaign managers, a young lesbian woman. But somebody else ends up winning. But, like, it's not the same as it was when Harvey was there. Like, of course, like, afterwards.
>> Farz: Dan White looks like Dexter Michael.
>> Taylor: Yes, he does. He does. He's creepy.
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: So Harvey Milk donates his eyes to. To someone who needs eyes. Just FYI, his ashes were. Were scattered in the bay with a bunch of Kool Aid as a joke after.
>> Farz: Oh, because of the People's Temple.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: It wasn't Kool Aid.
>> Taylor: Yeah. So I know that. So Dan White would be tried. Obviously, the jury was all white men. All straight white men. The defense was the, quote, Twinkie defense, which was that he ate too much junk food and that messed with his mind.
>> Farz: Oh, is that where that came from?
>> Taylor: Yeah. And that he, like, didn't know. Didn't really know what he was doing, that he had a gun, because he was used to having a gun. And you're like. But he climbed through the freaking window, like, all sorts of things. And he ended up being convicted of. Of manslaughter, which is an insanely low conviction. And he got seven years in. In jail.
>> Farz: Josh Brolin's a good casting call.
>> Taylor: He is. As soon as he puts his hair over his forehead.
After Dan White's sentencing, there were riots in San Francisco
Yeah, it's pretty good. So after Dan White's kind of crappy sentencing, there were riots. They called them the White Knight Riots, named after Jonestown also, because that was the night that everybody died and things just went in and out of being good. Rent's up now is expensive. People dispersed, leader. Others stayed. But obviously, like, there's still, you know, gay rights fights to be had. Dan White only served five years in prison. He moved home with his family. Feinstein told him not to come back to San Francisco. The mayor of LA said, we don't Want him here either. You know, like, we don't want this murderer here. And he ends up going back to San Francisco eventually. In 1984, a documentary about Harvey Milk won the Academy Award for best documentary in 1985. Dan White died by suicide on October 21st in his car. In his garage with. He left the car on.
>> Farz: He seems like a really troubled person.
>> Taylor: Yeah. Yeah. So.
>> Farz: Oh, so he was probably repressed, too. Maybe he was gay.
>> Taylor: I know Harvey did call him a closet case.
>> Farz: Maybe that's true. Like, I mean, you said he was raised Catholic. And, you know, he was like, this is the way I got to live my life. But this isn't really why we're speculating. But, like, that seems maybe that's what he resented Harvey about the most, was like, I'm jealousy. You get to live who you are.
>> Taylor: Yeah, totally. I'm not. I'm not against that idea. I agree.
In 2021, US Navy ship USNS Harvey Milk will be renamed
So obviously we can remember Harvey Milk as a groundbreaker trying not to hide in 2009, obviously, post humidity, he received the Presidential Medal of freedom. In 2021, they named the US Navy ship USNS Harvey Milk. It's a John Lewis class replenishment oil, and it is going to be renamed. I did hear about this because the Fox News host wants it renamed. So that's a bummer. And it's not just like they named a boat in the Navy. You know what I mean?
>> Farz: What was it named before?
>> Taylor: Before that? I think it was a new boat.
>> Farz: In 2021, it was a new boat.
>> Taylor: I think so.
>> Farz: Interesting. Okay.
>> Taylor: Yeah. I don't know. Big Navy thing. So.
Harvey Milk says people fighting against gay rights should become ministers
Okay, I'm going to read a little bit from a speech that Harvey milk did in 1973, which is early. Before he won, because he didn't win until 1977. That he did when he was called himself a populist person running for office. And he's talking about the people who are fighting against gay rights in America. And he says, quote, I just pulled this from like the middle of it. But he says, quote, do they ever read history? Because of the failure of their family, of their church, they are attempting to make the police force into ministers. While crimes against victims increases. This false morality is against the Constitution. If they do not like the Constitution, let them amend it. Let them scrap the Declaration of Independence, and in the meantime, let them go back to God with their morality and become ministers. Instead of spending time trying to get the death penalty passed, Let them reread the Ten Commandments. Let them teach the commandment, thou shalt not kill. I Know of no commandment that says thou shalt not smoke marijuana. I know of no commitment that says thou shalt read certain books. I know of no commandment that says thou shall not walk naked. Why are they such moralists when it comes to the Ten Commandments and not anti moralist when it comes to man's commandments, and such anti moralists when it comes to God's commandments. Let me have my tax money go for my protection. If not for my prosecution, let my tax money go for the protection of me. Protect my home, protect my streets, protect my car, protect my life, protect my property. Let my minister worry about me playing bar dice. Let my minister and not some policeman worry about my moral life. Worry about gun control, not marijuana control. Worry about mental care for the elderly, not about hookers. Worry about childcare centers and not about what books I might want to read. Worry about becoming a human being and not about how you can provide. Prevent others from enjoying their lives because of your own inabilities to adjust to life.
>> Farz: Yeah, it's well said.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: Really appreciate it. I will say one thing that I just read about the ship, the military ship called the Harvey Milk. Currently, very, very ironically, apparently last year, during Gaza war protests, nine pro Palestinian protesters, like, went on the ship to create, like, a disturbance and chain themselves to the ship, which is like. You realize they would have thrown Harvey Milk off of, like, lit him on fire and throw him off a roof, like.
>> Taylor: Yes.
>> Farz: It's like. It's like y' all not see the irony in this. But anyways, yeah, yeah, sweet. That's fun story. And also, I. I do remember I did really like that movie.
>> Taylor: So.
>> Farz: Yeah, it's. I think it's called Milk, so go check.
>> Taylor: It's called Milk. Yeah. Yeah. I remember being sad.
>> Farz: That was when Sean Penn hadn't transcended into his, like, weird, I'm super duper rich and now I'm gonna be, like, a change maker in the world. That was like, before he started, like, going and interviewing El Chapo and doing.
>> Taylor: Weird s***, but after he was in jail for domestic abuse.
>> Farz: Yeah, he beat Madonna really early on. Like, he got. He beat her a**, like, really early. I mean, that was.
>> Taylor: He was in jail with the Night Stalker.
>> Farz: Oh, my God, you're right. Everything comes full circle.
>> Taylor: Full circle.
>> Farz: Wow. Very fun.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: Sweet.
I'm not huge on twice baked potatoes. I don't make them because it's so much work
All right, well, thank you for sharing. I will have a call out for everyone if y' all love baked potatoes. Actually, you know what? Write to us and tell us what kind of potatoes you like.
>> Taylor: Yeah, I kind of feel like my Answer might be any potato, but I don't know.
>> Farz: I'm not huge on twice baked potatoes.
>> Taylor: Oh, I love twice baked potatoes.
>> Farz: Yeah, I know. Everybody does.
>> Taylor: I don't make them because it's so much work.
>> Farz: If you bake them twice, it's a lot of work. I know, I know.
>> Taylor: That's. That's way too much work. But I do, I do wish a potato cooked faster. So if there's any genetic engineers in the audience, can you please, like that, make it faster cooking potato.
>> Farz: Yeah. Our favorite.
>> Taylor: Wait like forever.
>> Farz: It was lighting the fireplace during the winter and then throwing potatoes beneath it. That was the best thing.
>> Taylor: Really? Yeah.
>> Farz: He's wrapped in aluminum foil. You put it like, and then you pull it out and it's nice. Cooked, steaming hot and loaded up with all the goodies.
>> Taylor: Wouldn't you want that in a stand?
>> Farz: It's not a walking around food, but I don't, I think things between bread is walking around food.
>> Taylor: But there's also, like, if you just had it in like a foil, you could eat it and you eat the whole thing and then you just have a ball of foil.
>> Farz: Then I guess, I guess it's also hot.
>> Taylor: Like, I also am picturing this on the beach, and I don't think there is on the beach, but also I find a big tear on the beach.
>> Farz: But. But if you're in San Francisco, in San, like, it is kind of cool. It is cold, it's foggy, it's moody in like a hot potato. I mean, I don't know if you live in San Francisco. Write to us and tell us, like, are there hot potato vendors, like, lining your streets? Is it like taco vendors in Austin? Like, I don't know. Maybe it is.
>> Taylor: I just, I feel like I need to start a potato stand now.
>> Farz: What do you think that would cost you? Why you, like, you need to start with like, at least 50 bucks worth of potatoes. So you're in 50 bucks already?
>> Taylor: It's one potato. How much can it cost? I don't know.
>> Farz: Sweet. Well, this debate will keep going for the for millennia.
>> Taylor: I'm sure I did. Nadine did say that she was also pro coconuts. And you win by a landslide. That's my other news.
>> Farz: There you go. Thanks for conceding. It's very big of you. Very noble. Sweet. Do we have any other mail that you want to read out here?
>> Taylor: Nope, that's it. Thank you, everyone. If you have any ideas or questions or anything, doom to fail. Pod gmail.com and doom to fail on all socials.
>> Farz: Sweet. Well, we'll go.
>> Taylor: See you next week.
>> Farz: Thank you.
>> Taylor: Thanks.