We're back with the epic rise and fall of Milli Vanilli! We're old enough to remember, and we still delight in their smash hits! But it's obviously also a tragic story of fame, the music industry, race, culture, and creative freedom. We'll talk about our stars Fab Morvan and Rob Pilatus - how they found each other in 1980s Germany, rose to superstardom under the heel of the villain Frank Farian, and their very public fall from grace. It's a deeper story than you thought, but girl, you know it's true.
Read Fab's Book!
"You Know It's True: The Real Story of Milli Vanilli"
https://www.amazon.com/You-Know-Its-True-Vanilli/dp/B0FP4P554H
We're back with the epic rise and fall of Milli Vanilli! We're old enough to remember, and we still delight in their smash hits!
But it's obviously also a tragic story of fame, the music industry, race, culture, and creative freedom.
We'll talk about our stars Fab Morvan and Rob Pilatus - how they found each other in 1980s Germany, rose to superstardom under the heel of the villain Frank Farian, and their very public fall from grace. It's a deeper story than you thought, but girl, you know it's true.
Taylor: I got it out. I feel fine. I'm ready. Hi, Taylor, how are you
>> Taylor: In the matter of the people of State of California vs. Orenthal James Simpson, case number BA097.
>> Farz: And so, my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do.
>> Taylor: I'm ready.
>> Farz: We are recording Taylor's yawning. Hi, Taylor, how are you?
>> Taylor: I yawned, but I. I got it out. I got it out. I feel fine.
What has been your favorite horror movie this season
>> Farz: Let's start off here. This is our first recording in a while, so let's start it off with. What has been your favorite horror movie this season?
>> Taylor: Oh, my gosh. Such a good question. I've watched so many. Let me look at the calendar that our friend just painstakingly put together. We watched three movies on Friday in a row.
>> Farz: That's a lot.
>> Taylor: It's a lot. It was a lot, but it was super fun. I liked. Well, I think the scariest one we watched was Speak no evil with James McAvoy from 2024.
>> Farz: That's good one.
>> Taylor: It was scary, and so I like that one a lot. We watched Smile 2, which I've seen before, but I like Smile 2 very much.
>> Farz: Yeah, that one scene in the living room is really, really creepy.
>> Taylor: It's so good. Last. Oh, last night we watched the Wicker man, the seven from the 70s, which was hilarious. Red Rooms was actually really good. That's on sh. That one was good. Headcount was on Amazon, and that one is actually. Two of them are based in Joshua Tree, which is hilarious, like, in our neighborhood. But Head account was in Joshua Tree and, like, it was like, one of those ones where afterwards you're like, whoa, that was really good. You know what I mean? Like, you think about it a lot. It was. It was good. I was like, oh, that's why all these things happened. I think I told you that. For Fre Waka F R E W A K A. That was good, too.
>> Farz: Means Roots. I looked it up.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: The one that is stuck into my. In my brain, unfortunately, has been Bring Her Back.
>> Taylor: I didn't see it yet.
>> Farz: I know it is gonna stick in your brain because.
>> Taylor: Talk to me. The other one that they did, the same people, I think was really good. Really good. Very scary. But I heard that Bring Her Back is, like, upsetting. So it is.
>> Farz: It is. There. There's some scenes that are. They're just gonna imprint on you. It's kind of like hereditary, you know? Yeah, hereditary that you just, like, will always remember for the rest of your life. Like, that is what Bring Back does.
>> Taylor: I watched Hereditary one time at work because I was like, I think I told Jay this, and he was like, what is wrong with you? Because I was, like, super stressed out. It was like, the time. I mean, a lot of the time at work when we worked together was stressful, but I was like, just in a whole thing. And I sat at my desk and I watched Hereditary at 1.5 speed to calm myself down. And Jay was like, that's not how you calm yourself down.
>> Farz: I disagree with Jay. I agree with you. So there is some value to watching something, you know, inside and out?
>> Taylor: No, that was the first time I'd seen it.
>> Farz: Oh, that was the first time. You see, that is kind of nuts. Let me go and check on this one.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: Yeah, I'm gonna go with Jill on that one.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: Maybe Midsummer I could do.
>> Taylor: Yeah, maybe. I think I watched Midsummer at Work, too. I like Midsummer a lot.
>> Farz: Anywho, how about you?
>> Taylor: What's yours?
>> Farz: I think so.
>> Taylor: I've seen.
>> Farz: Yeah. Most of what you said I've already seen. And so I think what I'm gonna try and watch tonight. I haven't even looked at the calendar. I should probably just start getting back on the calendar. But I was thinking about watching Stop Motion.
>> Taylor: I've seen that. That's good.
>> Farz: Yeah, it sounds. It looks pretty freaky from the trailer, and it sounds kind of freaky, so that one looks pretty good. I don't know what's on the calendar for tonight.
>> Taylor: Tonight is the bird with crystal plumage from 1970. Don't know. Could be weird.
And then Stir of Echoes from 1999 with Kevin Bacon
And then Stir of echoes from 1999 with Kevin Bacon, which seems fun. We might make that one. Yeah.
>> Farz: Yeah, we might give it a once over and see if we can. We can make some of these.
>> Taylor: Sweet.
>> Farz: Do you want to do an intro?
>> Taylor: Yes.
Doomed to Fail brings you history's most notorious disasters and epic failures
Hello, everyone. Welcome back to Doomed to Fail. We bring you history's most notorious disasters and epic failures. And I'm Taylor, joined by Vars, and.
>> Farz: We are here recording for the first time in quite a while, Taylor. Who goes first today?
>> Taylor: It's always me. You ask every time. And it's always me.
>> Farz: Nothing changes, huh?
>> Taylor: No, because we changed it. So we just. We do it every week now. And so it's me, you, me, you, me, you, me, you, me, you, you. Got it. Thank you to everyone who's been listening to all of our re releases.
>> Farz: Also, it's been a busy couple of.
>> Taylor: Yes. Weeks. Months for us. We've been around. But, yeah. Yeah, it's nice to. It's nice to be home.
Rob Politus and Fab Morvin are behind the famous Milli Vanilli heist
Okay, I'll get started. You ready?
>> Farz: Yes.
>> Taylor: Oh, my God. I have had so Much fun researching this story. I don't even know what to tell you for. I just. It is, it's been. It's been lovely and I've been angry and happy and sad and had a lot of emotions, but is it going.
>> Farz: To be a heist?
>> Taylor: No. Oh, my God, yes. We can talk about the heist later. Yeah. Okay. This is a story of love, loss, lies, race, culture, class, everything. Everything you want. It's also a Post World War II story, more than I expected it to be about like the reconstruction of Germany, denazification, All of that is in there too. It's also like an American prohibition, jazz age story that flows into it too. But most, it's a music story. I'm going to tell you the names of the people in it and you tell me who they are. Got it? Sure. This is the story of Rob Politus and Fab Morvin.
>> Farz: No clue. Those people are.
>> Taylor: They're Milli Vanilli.
>> Farz: Oh, wow.
>> Taylor: I read this book, it's so good. Fab just wrote a book, came out in August. It's called, you know, it's True. And it is so good. It's like short. It's very self published. There's no apostrophes in it. For some reason it and oh my God, I like wrote in it. It was like, just lovely. He writes all these beautiful letters to people who are gone, asking for answers, but letting them know that he forgives them. And he talks a lot about what happened and how it happened. And it's super interesting.
>> Farz: I am shocked that you were tying together so many massive historical benchmarks. A mini vanilla store.
>> Taylor: I didn't know until I read this. And I was like, whoa. And then also I watched the movie Milli Vanilli that came out a couple years ago. It's a documentary about it. And then I've just been watching so many freaking Milli Vanilli videos and listening to their songs and they are so good. My favorite. They're really good. My favorite part is in the beginning of Girl, you know it's true. There's this like little dialogue where the girl's like. He's like, you mean a lot to me. And she goes, I really mean that much to you. And he goes, girl, you know it's true. It's so good. And then it goes into the song. It's wonderful.
Rob Politis is the son of a black American soldier and a German mother
So let me tell you what happened. Everybody, you know, everyone knows what happened. But let me tell you more details about what happened. So we'll start with Rob. Rob Politis, named Robert he is the one who sometimes wears glasses, if that can help you. If you don't know exactly which one's which. He sometimes wears glasses. He's a little bit bigger. He. He also gains a little bit of weight toward the end, so he's like a little bit of the bigger box, bigger built guy with glasses is Rob. Rob was born on June 8, 1965, in Munich, West Germany. So Rob is the son of a black American soldier and a German mother. So he's mixed white and black. And his dad left to America and his mom gave him up to an orphanage. So he never knew his parents. And he had, like, a pretty rough childhood. Like, in and out of these orphanages, there were things that were like, he so badly wanted to be adopted and, like, wanted attention that he would, like, do, like, kind of weird things when parents would come and, like, no one would pick him. Just like, very, like, classic, sad orphan story. Eventually, he does get adopted by a German, obviously white German family. And he has an older sister who is like a biological daughter, I think, of that family. And his sister is in the documentary. She's. She's still alive. And she says some stuff. She was like, I don't know. It was hard. It was hard for Rob. I don't know why kids didn't accept him. And I'm like, I know why in Germany. Exactly. That's why. Because it was post World War II. Like, I wrote, World War II was 20 years ago. Parents of the other kids at school could very well have been in the Hitler Youth. You can't.
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: You know, we didn't arrest everybody in Germany. You know what I mean? So, like, there was deep racism there. And you can't. You can't arrest an entire country. And there were. There were there. I don't know how I haven't looked it up. I don't know how many people of other races there are in Germany. But, like, when you go to Germany, it's one of those places where you're like, oh, everyone here looks the same.
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: You know, like, like, like in, you know, other countries as well. But, you know, it's. It's.
>> Farz: It's like Iran. If you were to, I would assume, like, an Asian person or a black person or a white person would stand out pretty out there in Iran.
>> Taylor: Yeah, exactly. So of course he's going to stand out because he's, like, the only black person.
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: There. And he's an orphan and he's going through all these things. So he had. He had all that weighing on him as a child. Rob is also the one who speaks English with more confidence during press tours. So if you watch interviews with Milli Vanilli, like, in their. Like, it was only like, two years, but in their two years of superstardom, if you watch their videos, he's the one who talks the most. And I love his German accent so much. Fab doesn't have as German of an accent as Rob, but I love. So this is, like, I. I think silly, but I love how when you have a German accent, you say Germany, your voice goes to a really low register and they go germany. You know what I mean?
>> Farz: Yeah, I kind of do it in my head right now.
>> Taylor: I think it's so cute. So he has that cute German accent. And also, just to note everyone that I know that is my age and your age and our age who is German, which is a handful of people whose grandparents were in World War II, like mine were. You know, we've talked about it, and we've talked about it in cemeteries in Germany, and everyone cried, and everyone was like, you know, they talk about it, but the first generation out, they didn't talk about as much as we do now, you know, so that must have been just really, really hard. So, Rob, both of these guys are gorgeous. So he's like a trained dancer and a model, of course. And by his late teens, he's in fashion shows and small music projects around Mun. So that's where we'll leave him. He's in his late teens, early 20s. He's in Munich, and he's, like, dancing and modeling, living there, trying to figure himself out. And then we have Fab, whose name is Fabrice, Fabrice Morven. And he was born on May 14, 1966, in Paris. He is a mix of couple different races. So there's some Indian, a lot of African, just like, kind of like a mixed. A mixed bag. But he grew up in Paris and in Guadalupe, that Caribbean island, because his dad was, like, kind of involved in construction, so lived there. They lived in Saudi Arabia. They lived kind of around for a while. Both of Fab's parents were very abusive towards him, both physically and emotionally. It was a cycle. His dad was very violent to his mom, and his mom was very violent to him. So it was just like a really rough childhood. They had resources. So at one point, Fab was pretty like a sick. Sickly as a child, and he went to a. Like, a hospital by the sea for children who were sick in France. So he, like, would spend summers doing things like that. He his dad was, like, really never around. They knew that his dad was, like, you know, out with other women.
Fab moved to Germany without really knowing how to speak German
And then he would come home and he. He would. Fab remembers, you know, watching his mother cover up bruises with makeup. Just, like, very traumatizing. And Fab had a couple younger siblings as well. They went on, you know, they went on family vacations, and they did things to have that, like, veneer of being happy family, but. But they. They weren't really. Later, in Fab's teens, he starts to take dance classes. And again, his parents don't really care, so they don't care what he does with his time. So he starts to take dance classes. He does ballet. They're both obviously, like, really, really fit. And he moves out as soon as he can, and he moves to Munich. So Fab is like, I gotta get out of here. I don't know what I want to do. But he moves to Munich to sort of, like, see what's going on in, like, the dance scene. There's. So that's where they meet. It's 1988, and we are in Munich, Germany, and imagine how just like. Like, German clubs are exactly what you think that they are. You know, it's like house music, and this is like late 80s, early 90s house music, and people are dancing. And Rob and Fab, they start to kind of be in the same circles, obviously, because they're both dancers, and Rob is a little bit like, oh, great, another black guy, you know, because he's.
>> Farz: Like, I'm picturing techno Viking. Have you ever seen this guy?
>> Taylor: No, but. But I pictured it in my head immediately.
>> Farz: So, yes, there you go.
>> Taylor: They just. That. That's all I need.
>> Farz: Yeah, but that was. I think that was all Germany. Like, when you say German dance clubs, it is a very particular.
>> Taylor: Exactly, exactly. I mean, very techno dance and just, like, fun. And it's fun. And so Rob was there first, and he saw Fab, you know, and he's like, oh, great. This is a competition, you know, for. For me. But they start to have this, like, silent rivalry. Fab started to go. He. He also, like, didn't really have a job, so they're both kind of like. He was homeless for a little bit. He. But he would go to these clubs, and they started to see each other, and Rob or Fab would go to the movies consistently, and Rob started to go as well, and they were kind of, like, sitting in different parts of the theater, and eventually they got closer together and were like, we're probably stronger if we band together. You know, like, in this environment, like, it's probably better to be together. And they really hit it off. Like, they started to dance together and they started to. To, like, do, like, club promoter things and make money that way. And they lived together in, like, a s***** little apartment, just trying to, like, make ends meet doing what they did. There's, like, a little bit of modeling. So they're like, we need to help each other out. One note that I think is important is that Fab moved to Germany without really knowing how to speak German. And German is obviously, like, Rob's, like, first language. So Rob did a lot of the talking in German, which made him the one that did a lot of the business negotiating or all of it, really, you know, And I wonder if that is something that weighed heavier on Rob then is accounted for in, like, their history, because it looks like they're partners to everything. But Rob was the one who had to make these deals even when. Even in the early days. And they're just dancing because, like, for example, if you and I were signing a contract and it was in Farsi, I would trust you that it was a good contract. You know what I mean? But that would also put.
>> Farz: You'd be foolish to do so. But I understand.
>> Taylor: But I would obviously, you know what I mean? Also, you're a lawyer, whatever. I would trust you. But. But I think it would put more responsibility on you, obviously, you know, you'd be like, I have to read this. I have to understand it. And I. If I'm going to have Taylor sign it, it had, you know, I. I trust you. You would be like, it has to be good.
>> Farz: Right?
>> Taylor: Right. So I think that. I think that that's something in there as well. That, like, there's a little bit more pressure on Rob because of the language barriers. But, I mean, Fab learns German because, like, once you're a European, you can learn, like, a thousand languages.
>> Farz: Yep.
>> Taylor: You know, so they start dancing, and they're modeling for money. They throw parties, and they do write songs together. They start to work on their look. So one of Fab's things is, like, the hair. Like, if you, like, see an outline of hair of, like, Elvis or Prince or Dolly Parton, like, you know who it is, you know, so he would like me to have, like, really distinct hair. So then they got their hair braided, and you can picture Milli Vanilli hair, you know, like, right now, Fab also is the one that did their look. Like, the tight, tight leggings and big, big blazers and scarves. And, like, it was like, a whole thing that, like, Fab invented, which is awesome.
>> Farz: They're gay, right?
>> Taylor: No, no, no, no, no. It was 80s and the European.
>> Farz: I know, I know. It's hard to figure out, because in the 80s, you know, it's like how you look like punk rock, like makeup.
>> Taylor: And like, Bon Jovi.
>> Farz: Yeah, yeah, yeah, exactly.
Fab also has a memory of his mother wearing big scarves
>> Taylor: Okay. It was just 80s. There is a song in Legally Blonde, the musical called Gay or European, which is very funny. So good. Fair question. For a clarifying question, Fab also has, like, a memory of his mother wearing big scarves to, like, cover some of her. Some of her injuries from his father. And in his book, he wrote Rebellion but Make It Fashion, which was fun. You know, he's like, let's. Let's, like, really, like, be distinct with what we're wearing. So they actually have a band before Milli Vanilli. It's called Empire Bazaar, and it's, like a very pop dance group. There's a. Another. There's a woman in it as well. There's, like, one music video. It's just dancing. I don't even see them in it. They say, like, four words. You know, it's one of those techno words. So there's, like, you know, not a lot of sound, not a lot of voices.
>> Farz: The visuals are in the visuals, and the beats are what matters.
>> Taylor: Yeah, exactly. And eventually people notice, and they realize that, like, these guys want to be performers, and they start to move up, and things are. People are starting to notice them, and they get the attention of the villain of our story, Frank Farian.
Fab describes Frank Farian as a music producer who found black artists
So let me tell you about Frank, this m***********. So Frank Farian is a music producer. He was born on July 18, 1941, in Kirn, Germany. He was raised by a single mother because his dad was killed in the war. Fab describes Frank Farian as a person whose job it was to decide when black people were allowed to be heard, because that's how he made his money. He, like, found black artists and made them famous. And I'll tell you some crazy in a second. But to get to this point, there's a little bit about the music industry that I don't know. You know, I don't know. Obviously not like a music historian, but you can go back to, like, the jazz age in the United States, how, like, these mobsters, like white mob families, are, like, running these prohibition machines. And while they're doing that, they're also finding that people will stay in their speakeasies and stay in their bars if there's good music. So they're using the same machine to run, like, black people through the these places as, like, jazz musicians, you know, so they had to, like, you know, leave through the back door, and they couldn't come in the front door, but they were like, perform all night for all these white people. And the mobsters would make all the money, obviously, you know, and people would keep playing because they loved the music and they like to do it. And they were sometimes in contracts that were, like, really hard to get out of and all these things. So even, like today, people of all races and genders and ages are stuck in really s***** music industry context, you know?
>> Farz: Yeah, I was gonna say I'd never heard. I mean, there's gotta be some. But, like, there's a lot of stories about evil music producers.
>> Taylor: A lot of them, like, didn't.
>> Farz: Didn't Taylor Swift literally recreate her album just because of a music producer?
>> Taylor: That's literally my next bullet point. Because Taylor Swift had to buy back her masters, which is like, the original pressing of all of her music, and redo it because the producers, like, had her in a shady contract and she can get out of it because now she's, you know, rich enough to do that. But how many millions of people aren't, you know? Yeah. You know, so it's almost impossible to, like, control your own destiny in the music industry. Very, very, very few people do it. And let me. Even that Taylor Swift example, like, she had to go through all these things and, like, you know, Elvis, how terrible his life was, you know, just like, nothing is good. You know, all the guys who die, who die of these terrible drug overdoses because everything's so hard.
>> Farz: I have a good story before you go to that, which is, have you heard about 50 Cent and Master P? So 50 Cent, when he was first. First just starting to get going, he signed this contract with Master P to do eight concerts under his brand and his label. And he did three concerts, and then Master already paid him for the eight, and so he had five more on his contract. And he goes, hey, look, like, go do other things. Go record your album, Go do tours, do whatever you want. Later on, we'll. We'll wrap up the other 500 contracts. And then when. When 50 Cent tells the story, he's like, oh, because he knew I was gonna blow up. He knew it was gonna be this huge thing. He's like, I'd rather wait until you're a megastar and I've already bought you for cheap for these five additional shows. And Let you play out the rest of your contract. So there's a little bit of conniving going on on all sides.
>> Taylor: Oh, absolutely, yeah, absolutely. So one quote from, you know, it's true. This wonderful book, Fab, says the pattern is older than vinyl. Artists create, gatekeepers extract. And when an artist begins to burn out, when their mental health cracks, when addiction starts showing through the seams, or when the magic dims, they're labeled difficult, unreliable or crazy, the label drops them and the press mocks them. And that's the queue for another fresh face to be ushered in.
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: Which we see again and again.
>> Farz: So it's also true for other, like every other.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: Facet of life. Like if you're like. I mean, sure, for every Helen Mirin. How many other, you know, 85 year old women do you have who were celebrities and were somebody and just washed by the wayside or, you know, I think it probably holds true.
>> Taylor: Absolutely. I definitely wrote women under there because women get called, you know, crazy. You know, she's being hysterical and like, you know, like you're a. So whatever. So all of that's the music industry. You know, there's a lot of that happening. And Frank knows this. You know, Frank, the Frank Fairy knows this. And you know, why he knows this and what he did in his past. Do you remember, Fars, when we did our episode on Rasputin and I sang that. I sang the Rasputin song to you. Yeah. So that song is by a band called Boney M and it's super fun. I think I probably made you watch the video of them doing it. But when Boney M performs like Rasputin, it's so good. So the main performer, Bobby Farrell, he'll like wear this like Rasputin fake beard and then he wears like these big Russian pants and he has no shirt on and he's very skinny and has a really hairy chest and he's just like running around the stage singing. He's super fun to watch. And then the women in the background, like the rest of the band, like they're dressed in these like beautiful disco outfits and like, it's really, it's just so fun. And they got really popular with their like disco, disco hits. But. And so their producer was Frank Farian who's going to produce Milli Vanilli. But guess what? Bony M, main guy, Bobby Farrell was lip syncing the entire time. And you know whose voice it was? It was Frank's. It was the white German music producer, Frank Farian. It was his voice that Bobby Farrell is lip syncing to in all those wonderful Boney M performances. Wow.
>> Farz: Okay, so he has a pattern.
>> Taylor: Yeah. So he did it, but he's done it before, and he didn't care. People found out, and he was like, yeah, yeah, you know, whatever. It was fun and, like, wasn't this big. Like, this big of a scandal. Yeah. But he had done it before.
I'm not surprised by any of this, to be honest with you
The other one that I think is this is not a Frank Farian one, but that I just want to bring up is, you know the song Pump up the Jam?
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: The woman who sings it in the video and on tour is not the woman who sings it, but the woman who sings it her is, like, kind of like a. Like a short, kind of, like, tomboyish woman and just, like, not the look. So they hired a model to lip sync the whole time.
>> Farz: Yeah. I'm not that surprised by any of this, to be honest with you, because it's all about the packaging, and you're really. Ultimately, they're selling a product, and if the product does not have the right look, then you just find the product that does and match it with.
>> Taylor: So that's. That's, like one of the big questions is, like, who is the victim in this crime? You know, like. Like, if. If everyone agreed that that was okay and, like, everyone knew, then, like, would you really care?
>> Farz: You know, we probably. No, we probably shouldn't. Like, what. What I was thinking about as you were saying this was how, like, when we were kids, they dragged, like, all of NLB in front of, like, the US House, and we're like, these guys are doing steroids. It's like, do we care? Like, if they're hitting more home runs and we're enjoying it more? Like, who? Like, I don't know. There's, like, a weird ethics to this that's like, we kind of all agree that the cooler thing is to cheat, but we're just not gonna allow it.
>> Taylor: Let's see how far Lance Armstrong can go with all of his alien blood.
>> Farz: Yeah, exactly.
>> Taylor: Why the not. Yeah, totally.
Robin Fab met Ingrid and Frank Farian in 1988
So, okay, so they're gonna meet Frank Farian. Frank Farion also has a girlfriend named Ingrid. Ingrid is in. Gonna be in this story a lot later. Guess what Ingrid's nickname is.
>> Farz: Bergman.
>> Taylor: Millie. Millie Vanilly is named after her. After. After Frank's like, I feel like you. You. You're. You want to be like, which one's Millie? Which was Vanilli. But, like, that's not at all the way that it is. It's just like, Millie is. Is Ingrid's Nickname. And they just, like, were like, oh, that sounds cute if you say Milli Vanilli, like, that's it. So they hear about Robin Fab in 1988, Ingrid and Frank, they ask them to come to their studio. They put the Robin Fab put on their best outfits, and they give them a contract. And again, the contract is in German. And Rob and. And Fab both sign it. So this is, like, the part where I think it probably weighed heavier on Rob that he spoke German and should have read the contract more than he did. But they have pictures of them signing it, toasting with champagne. They are super, super happy. And Frank leaves, leans over to Fab and whispers, don't f*** with me. Right after they sign the contract. So for a few months, nothing happens. Like, they don't call them back. Like, nothing is happening. They're like, what are we supposed to be doing? Like, should we be recording? Like, we have songs, we' written. We're, like, super excited. They're practicing dances. They're like, what do we do? And they get an advance and they get paid a little bit, like a stipend per month, but they still, still aren't doing anything. And, like, honestly, like, they're hungry. They're like, what is happening? Like, physically hungry. Like, we're getting. We don't want to, like, get jobs because, like, what do we. We want this to take off. Like, what is happening? And so eventually they get the call to go into the studio. And Frank's studio in, like, outside of Munich is, like, beautiful, state of the art everything. They're like, oh, my God. Like, this is that. We're so freaking excited. Like, we have songs, we have ideas. Like, we cannot wait to start recording. And they play the background to Girl. You know it's true. Oh, my God, it's so great. Everyone's like. They're like, this is so freaking exciting. This song is fun as s***. And Frank pulls Rob away and tells him something in German. And Rob comes back really, really mad. And he says to Fab, they don't want us to sing. They don't want us to sing. And Fab is like, what are you talking about? Like, how are we supposed to make this album if we're not singing? And Frank and Ingrid are like, listen, you're hot, you're great dancers, but you have very heavy accents. And they can sing. Like, later you can hear. You can hear their real voices, but it's accented, you know, like, it's not like the perfectly unaccented American voices that are in Those songs. And they're also like, these songs have already been recorded by American vocalists. And you are stuck. You would have to give us back all that money. We know you don't have it anymore. And also, you will never have a chance in the music industry again if you leave this contract. So they said, okay, we'll do this one, this one song, and then maybe they'll let us sing the next one, you know, if we play along, you know. And they were scared. Ingrid denies she's actually in the documentary. She denies that she threatened them, but I don't f****** believe her. And they were like in their early 20s. Ingrid took on this, like, weird a** mothering role with Rob. She would, like, sleep on the same bed with him because he like, never really, really had, like, felt like he was part of a family. So she'd be like, oh, it's gonna be okay, you know, like, weird. And she also, like. She denies it. And then she also kind of laughs and says, I mean, like, if they didn't want to do it, they could have just been like garbage men in Munich. Who cares? You know, like very. She's like, they very much threatened them. She's awful. So they go along with it and they do.
Brad Howell and Charles Shaw are the backup singers on the album
And they release girl, you know, it's true. So the real singers are these American backup singers named Brad Howell and Charles Shaw. They are the voices. Linda and Jody Rocco are sisters, and they're the backup voices. Linda and Jody are white. Brad and Charles are black. Just for the record, Charles is the rapper. Cause there's some rap in those songs. And he's still p***** about it. He. I mean, obviously, like, I think Brad Howell is a little bit like it happened. But Charles is p*****. He told some people about it, tried to, like, in the early days, like leak it. And Frank was basically like, do you believe this black guy or do you believe me? You know? And so he like threatened him. Ingrid says, yeah, Charles had a personality, you know, like, they were like, not going to let him have any opinions. When he does try to come out, he gets death threats from fans and from like, other people. So he just like kind of disappears. And they have another guy, John Davis, as a rapper, and they pay him like 10,000 Deutsche marks, which is like, not that much money.
>> Farz: Did Frank think it was a big deal that it was being lip synced? Because it sounds like he doesn't care.
>> Taylor: He doesn't care.
>> Farz: Then why not just let everyone know that lip synced?
>> Taylor: Because he thinks that people would care, I guess. You know, and he's like I've done this before and it was fine basically, you know. And like I see these two humans that are going to be a smash hit. I just need to have like a song voice that like I think matches it. So whatever, let's just do it so we can make money, you know. So the singers would like record at night through the back doors, like things like that, all that kind of stuff. Like so like you people were like not supposed to know and then listen all caps. It was a smash f****** hit because of course it was. Do you remember? Because I remember and I loved it so much. Do you remember? Yeah, it was just so f****** exciting. I remember like roller skating to their music videos at the roller rink. Like love it.
>> Farz: Yeah. No, vanilla was everywhere.
>> Taylor: Yeah. So Frank Varian is the music producer.
Taylor: What was the record company behind all of this
But you might ask me, Taylor, what was the record company behind all of this?
>> Farz: Taylor, what was the record company?
>> Taylor: I'm glad you asked. So thank you. So in Germany it was record companies work in like a kind of like a cascade, I don't know, like an outline down, whatever it's called, like a hierarchy. So it was Aerial, Ariela Records in Germany and then Hana BMG and eventually Arteza Records in the United States. Yes. So another aside, BMG Music, which still exists today, which you may have heard of, it went through some hands, it was sold to Sony, now was sold back to some other people. But it's still a, a record producing company. Right now it is the BMG stands for Bertelsmann Music Group in 1988 when this was happening. So BMG is the umbrella corporation above Ariel Records that that Milli Vanilli is, is in. It was run by a man named Reinhardt Mone who is the grandson of the original Bertlsmann who started Bertlsman Music Group. Cool. Reinhard Mohn is the like the president of BMG because his father could not be the president of BMG because his father was in the ss.
>> Farz: Oh wow.
>> Taylor: So the original Bertlesman is the grandpa, the dad is in the SS and then Reinhardt Mon is now in 1988 running BMG. Reinhardt Mohn joined the Luftwaffe in 1939 and he spent some time in American POW camp before he went back to Germany and then like started the family business of the music industry. Reinhardt Mohn, the son of an SS officer who was in the Luftwaffe, was instrumental in BMG's music music production until 1991.
>> Farz: I was gonna say when you said BMG, I was like, I kind of recognize that name.
>> Taylor: Yeah, like World War II was not that long ago. Yeah, that's wild. Like someone in the Luftwaffe was producing Milli Vanilli music.
>> Farz: Yeah. And probably others that we would recognize, of course.
>> Taylor: Of course. Yeah. So wild. In the United States, it's Arteza Records, which is Clive Davis, who you've heard of. So that's. That's the big company here. So these guys, all of the guys, the Umbrellas, like, they didn't ask a lot of questions. They didn't care. They're making a s*** ton of money. One thing I'm read another quote from this book, Fab says, so they became like a product to bmg, to these. To these record companies. And, And. And Fab says, we were young and scared because every piece of us, our hunger, our wounding and our dreams, was bound to that deal. There was some part of us, no matter how small, that still believed we could claw our way to something real. Almost as if, if we worked hard enough, we could earn our way to a fair deal. But contracts don't measure belief. They measure deliverables, revenue and risk. And we had become a risk. Once they start knowing that they people. More people start thinking about it. But I'll tell you about that in a second. So all those people are making a s*** ton of money. Rob and Fab are stuck in this contract. They are hit in Europe. Smash, smash hit. People are a little bit surprised that they become a smash hit in the United States. But, like, I'm not surprised, obviously, because I'm still very excited about it. And yes, it's a little weird that when they do interviews, they don't have, like, perfect English and they have very heavy accents. Again, Rob is from Germany.
>> Farz: You know, like, when I remember when I first heard Celine Dion speak, I was kind of shocked that her voice was like, she was so accented because. Yeah, I don't go find interviews with people. You don't hear it at all when she's singing.
>> Taylor: I agree. I agree. You do hear it a little bit when Fab sings. Girl, you know, it's true now.
>> Farz: Really?
>> Taylor: Okay, yes, but I don't.
>> Farz: I mean, there's ways also, it doesn't matter. Like, who cares if they have accents? Like, if anything, Americans, like, adore European stuff more than they adore American stuff. Like, having an accent will probably make you seem cooler here.
>> Taylor: I agree.
>> Farz: People love that the Beatles were a smash hit.
>> Taylor: I know, I know.
>> Farz: Wait, did they have an accent? I mean, could you hear the accent? The Beatles?
>> Taylor: I don't.
>> Farz: I can't hear them in my head right now. They had to.
>> Taylor: I can only hear girl. You know, it's true. In my head right now.
>> Farz: I can hear the background beat.
>> Taylor: Smash hit. Okay, so they need another song. Right. And so a writer named Diane Warren comes in and she says, I wrote this song called Blame it on the rain. Ugh. So good.
Diane Warren has written songs for Cher, Lady Gaga and Celine Dion
Do you know who Diane Warren is?
>> Farz: No.
>> Taylor: Okay. She has written so many songs. She has been nominated for 16 Oscars, including. These are the ones that I know that I feel like you would know because you loved me from up close and personal sung by Celine Dion. How do I live from Con Air? Oh, my God, I don't want to miss a thing from Armageddon. Got in trouble for dancing too close to that at prom. She. This year, 2025, she was nominated for a song called the Journey from a movie called Six triple eight, which I have. No, I've never heard of that. But anyway, even this year, Diane Warren was nominated for an Oscar. She wrote unbreak my heart, can't fight the moonlight, rhythm of the night when I see you smile by Bad English if I could turn back time. She wrote songs for Cher, Lady Gaga, Celine Dion. And those are just the ones I know. So, like, of course Blue Eye Lovain is gonna be a smash hit because Diane Warren is a smash hit.
>> Farz: Yep. I am disappointed that those artists didn't write those songs.
>> Taylor: I do feel that way.
>> Farz: How is that not cheating? Like, how is that also not cheating? You know, I recently. Not recently. Like, in the past, like, five years, I learned that a lot of these comedians that, like, I adore, they didn't write their own jokes. They, like, paid someone w**** who's a comedian who's coming up to write jokes. They would just do them.
>> Taylor: I know that's not cheating.
>> Farz: They're so. Whatever.
>> Taylor: Doesn't it suck? I know it sucks. I agree. I hate it. I hate it. I did. I do have a friend who's a comedian, and there was a time when we were hanging out all the time, which, like, we're just really close. And he would tell me jokes and I would laugh, and then later he would do them on stage, and I felt a little used, you know, like, she was telling me jokes and then, like, you know, using me as a little bit of a sounding board, which, like, I get. But I was also like, I wish you would have told me. Like, I didn't. I thought we were talking, and then you're.
>> Farz: I thought we were just friends, and I didn't always.
>> Taylor: Yeah, Like, I was making you. You're making me laugh, which, like, I love. I like. Thank You. But also, like, I don't like that. That joke is not somewhere not on stage. Yeah, I don't love that. So, okay, they're in the United States, they have two hit songs and they do a tour and, and the band is like, isn't it weird they don't practice with us? Yeah. But they're told that, like, oh, they, you know, they, they're practicing their dancing or whatever. And I think the band. Band knew paid right away, but they were like, whatever, we're getting paid. What are you going to do? So they have a live band. They are on tour. They're touring. They have an eight month tour. It's only 1989. It has been like maybe a year. They tour 107 cities in eight months. They are on MTV Spring Break with Downtown Julie Brown. If you know her, she's great. She was, she was a vj. And at one point in one of their shows, the sound thing breaks the sound emulator. Because also I think that you would notice that the songs were perfect every time they sing it.
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: You know, because when you see someone live, like, you do want to see the little bit of nuance that, you know, they're actually talking to the microphone, you know. Yeah.
>> Farz: If you ever listen not to keep throwing it back. If you ever hear him in concert, it does not sound like anything like his album.
>> Taylor: No. It should be like a little bit less good and a little bit weird and then like, you know, because it's, it's not gone through the studio.
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: Whatever happens there.
Rob and Fab perform at the Grammys and it breaks. Everyone's mad, everyone's scared
So at one point. So it does break and you can, you can see a video of it. And it. They're on stage and they're singing and it goes, girl, you know, it's Girl, you know, it's girl, you know. You know, and it's like, oh, no. And they run off the stage. Rob is p*****. Everyone's mad, everyone's scared. And another side note is like the record company. Some people are still saying they didn't know. But if you look at the, like the liner notes from the record in Europe for Girl, you know, it's true. Rob and Fab are not even listed as vocalists, but they are on the US version. So someone in the United States was like, we're printing their names on this. You know what I mean? In Europe, they did not. People started to think this is weird. Arsenio hall does a bunch of like, weird, like, jokes about them. He's like, I don't know, it seems strange. And then one thing that Fab says again, and he says in the movie, he says, lies, take the elevator while the truth takes the stairs. So it's going to catch up to them. They made the record company $580 million. It's the late 80s, and Frank Varian is worth half a billion dollars, you know, so he's just rich as f***. And he's like. It's like a magic trick. Some people knew. Clive Davis knew they won two American Music Awards, but then came the Grammys, and. And the Grammys are like the ones that the music industry, like, I don't know, allegedly take seriously, you know? And there are. He. They have management in the United States, and they have this man who is an assistant manager. His name is Todd. He's like. He's like, brand new. And he was like, I didn't know. He said everybody else knew, but I swear to God, I didn't know, you know? And Todd is like, okay, well, what. What can I do for. These guys are doing such a good job. I think they should win a Grammy. Like, what do I do? So he calls the Grammys and says, how do you nominate someone for a Grammy? And they're like, just send us a letter and fax a letter on your letterhead. So from the record company, he sends a letter, faxes it over that says, please for your consideration. Milli Vanilli, Best New Artist. And everyone was mad. They're like, what the f*** did you do? They have to perform at the Grammys now, you know? And Todd is like, I don't know. I don't know. I thought they deserved a Grammy. They're great, you know? And so the manager paid a lot of money to let them do the playback at the Grammys. And they. They said while they were doing that, superstars are watching them. And they're like, they knew. They knew, you know, like, they knew.
Emily Vanilli wins Best New Artist at the 1990 Grammy Awards
So the Best New Artist category. The nominees are Nina Cherry, Indigo Girls, Milli Vinale, Soul to Soul, and Tone Loke. Emily Vanilli wins. So everyone is like, oh, my God. This is. This is a picture in front of the book. They're holding it. Like, look at their faces. They're like, holy s***.
>> Farz: That'd be a weird feeling.
>> Taylor: Yeah. And they're like, you know, Rob is like, we didn't not deserve stuff. We worked really hard, you know, but, like, not for this. You know what I mean?
>> Farz: Right.
>> Taylor: So they won later, I think. I think it's Mariah Carey who wins the next year. And trust, like, I mean, obviously, because she's fantastic. So they try to like, bring it back to being like, you know, like, bring, Bring. I don't know, like, get rid of that shame of having given it to Milli Vanilli. But. But so they win. They win the Grammy. And Rob and Fab during this whole time, like, they're not blameless. They're enjoying this. You know, they're. They have money, they have women, they have drugs, they have, like, all of the things that you get when you're a superstar. And they do let it go to their heads, you know, they, you know, kind of at the back of their head, they were like, you know, eventually we're gonna get to sing, so let's just, like, ride this. Our dreams are coming true, you know, like, this is everything ever wanted. We're global superstars. They said some stupid s***, like, oh, we're better than Elvis. You know, we're better than the Beatles, which is dumb. And, like, when John Lennon said, I'm more popular than Jesus, you say stupid s***. When you are superstar.
>> Farz: And you do put a target on.
>> Taylor: Your back, though, I will say, oh, absolutely, absolutely. They thought that they had a little bit of control and that they had leverage, but they had none. Their contract was for multiple albums. And Frank Ferrian and Ingrid, they decided what was going to happen. Clive Davis wouldn't let them sing. They were like, forget it. They tried to get lawyers, they couldn't get any help. And then the word got out that they were looking for lawyers. And Frank found out. And Frank was p*****. And Frank was like, okay, I'm going to leak this because now it's gone too far because you won the f****** Grammy. And everybody expects something of you. And you. We cannot. You cannot do this. Like, we cannot continue to do it. So on November 15, 1990, Frank Farian goes on a show called the Wetten Das, which is a German TV show. And he told the truth. He said, well, here's what he said. He said that Robin Fab had bad demos. Nobody cared anyway. They tried to extort him for money, but they tried to get out of their contract. And he said, these are the real singers. And he kind of paraded the black people in front of him and was like, these are the real singers. Emily Vanilli. It broke in the LA Times, and Robin Fab, like, lives in LA at the time, and they were, like, woken up to all this press, and then it was over. You know, they were like superstars to. Not in a second. Like, they had friends who called the first day and didn't call second day, you know, What I mean. And, like, they, like, slowly lost just.
>> Farz: Kind of the way to do it, though. Like, if I were to have it one way, that probably is the way to do it. Because then after, like, 10 years, everybody forgets who you are. You change your hair, and all of a sudden you live a normal life, but you have hundreds of millions of dollars in the bank. Like, that's not the worst life.
>> Taylor: Well, they didn't. They didn't. They didn't have a lot of money.
>> Farz: Oh, well, then I wouldn't do it.
>> Taylor: No, they. They were, like, tied to the record contract. I don't. I didn't get any impression that they got out of this with. With any money. You know, they. They did try to continue to do music stuff, but they were not. They weren't like hundreds of million dollars.
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
Robin and Fab released their first album, which wasn't as popular
All right, so Millie. Millie Vinley, Robin Fab. Do a press conference in. In L. A. They give back the Grammy, which they were, like, told to do. And, like, makes sense. They give it back, and it is wild. It is in the movie. And the press, you know, they're yelling at them. You know, obviously people are yelling. It's like a lot of, like, noise and camera flashes and yelling and. And they take a second, and Robin and Fab sing and Fab raps are like, we can do this. You know, like, we just were not allowed to based on the s***** contract that we got into because we were young. And Rob is like, listen, like, we were young. We are talented. We wanted to be on the stage. We. But we had no money. We lived in the projects. I worked it in fast food restaurants. Like, we were trying to scrape ourselves together. Like, we didn't have anything. We could not get out of that. And then we. This contract was, like, a blessing. Like, oh, my God, we can get out of this. And that's how we were able to get out. So he's, like, saying this, and he's like, people are like, well, how could you? And he said, you don't understand if you've never been poor, if you've never been hungry. Like, you can't judge someone for what they do when they're hungry. And then at the very end of the press conference, this, like, kind of sneaks in, and I, like, had to pause it and, like, scream to my husband. And because someone says, Rob says, have you ever lived in the projects? You don't know what it's like. And someone, a reporter says, your talent would have gotten you out of the projects. And then someone else says, that is spoken Like a true white boy. You knew it wasn't true once you said it, because it's not true. You know, there's no meritocracy. You can't work your way out of the project. You can. Some people do, but it's not guaranteed.
>> Farz: It's not a guarantee. Yeah, yeah.
>> Taylor: So, like, they're saying, like, it's guaranteed. Like, that's something a white person would say. Which I laughed. I was like, it's exactly right. Exactly right. So the backlash, you know, was harsh. Some people, like, burned their records. Like, some people sued. Like, there's this, like, horrible mother and her son on TV because they sued them. And the son was like, I'm suing. Because when I pictured them, I pictured them like this. You're like, did your mom make you do this? This is so weird. Like, why do you care so much? Whatever. The label said that they knew six months before, but Clive Davis, again said that he didn't know. Howard Stern did a blackface skit about it that I didn't watch but saw a little bit of, which is not great. And they were disposable. And. And that. And that was it for Robin Fab. Then Frank released the second album because it had already been recorded with other singers. Called it the Real Milli Vanilli, with the people who actually did the voices. But he added a black woman to the group, but she was lip syncing to those white women's voices from the original songs.
>> Farz: This is ridiculous.
>> Taylor: Like Inception, but, like, yeah, so Frank is just such a piece of s***. So, you know, nobody cared. Nobody cared about that either. There. Obviously it wasn't as popular. And, like, that band didn't. Didn't stay for a few. A few years later, Rob and Fab released their own album. And it's nice. They go on Arsenio Hall. They do the performance. It's really fun. Fab raps, they sing, they dance, I guess, just same thing, you know, it's. It's great. But nobody cared. They sold 2,000 copies worldwide. Like, they lost that they were never going to be superstars again. And they take it differently. They both do drugs, but the drugs take over Rob's life. Fab releases as an album in the 90s. He lives in L. A. He's on the RuPaul show, and he's like. He has a cute 90s dreads and, like, the 90s sweater with a stripe across it. Like, he just, like, looks very 90s. It's sweet, but that does, you know, it's doesn't it's not huge, but it's good. But Rob is not great. He goes to rehab 11 times. He is, you know, his health is terrible. He is in jail up and down.
Fab found Rob on the street in LA in a drugged out phase
There is one time in the 90s when Fab is outside the Viper Room in LA, which is like where River Phoenix died, you know? Yeah. You know, and he sees a man laying on the street and he goes over to him and looks at him and he said, I was in his eyes and I knew it was Rob. He found Rob on the street in like a drugged out phase in front of the Viper Room. And he picks him up and he says, rob, it's Fab. Where do you live? Where can I take you? Like what do you need? And Fab, like Rob pointed to a apartment and he brought him there and it was like a drug house. So Fab just like left him in this drug house. He was like super, you know, just drugged out. Just like not, not good at all. In 1998, Rob went back to Germany to go to rehab again. He goes to a clinic in Oderberg, Germany. And he stayed. Before he goes to check into the clinic, he stays at a hotel near where Ingrid lives. And she's like, I'm going to check on you and take you to this, to this place. So he gets there, he stays the night at the hotel. She calls the hotel in the morning, he doesn't answer. She calls again, he doesn't answer. At 2 o' clock she goes to the hotel. He doesn't answer. She knocks on the door. She got someone to open him up. Rob is laying on the floor in his underwear. He's dead. She tries to shake him to, to wake him up. And the people that are with her, they start calling the police. They said he's dead. He died of an over overdose of drugs and alcohol. When the funeral happened, Frank Farian didn't come. But he sent the biggest flower bouquet and moved the flowers from Rob's family and from Fab to the side. So it, his was in the middle and it said like, rest in peace, Fab, Ferrian and Ingrid. So they like tried to make themselves like the biggest thing of the funeral. Ingrid, like I said, is still alive. But Frank Farian died recently. He died in January 2024. No repercussions, still rich, you know, all those things. So our dear Fab now lives in Holland with his family. He met a beautiful woman, she is a fitness instructor. When they went on their first date, he said he'd like go to her fitness class. And he went and it was really hard. And he was, like, embarrassed and super cute. He had short hair. And he said his name was Fabrice, which it is. He's like, my name is Fabrice. I have the short hair. And her friends were like, girl, I think that guy is from living Italy. And she's like, well, I don't care. I just like Fabrice, you know, I just like him. And they got married. His children are younger than mine. He has, like, twins who are like three now. They have four kids together. And he continues to, like, make music and do things. He still tours and sings Milli Vanilli songs at festivals, which you can see online. And it's so cute and great. And his legacy is to teach his kids a couple things, like, when you fall, you can stand back up. And he's breaking the cycle of abuse. And so he's like, you know, trying to be a good father when he didn't have that. Didn't have that example from. From his parents. And in the end of his book, he has a couple. A couple things that I want to read to you. His sort of motivations and things are, be a container for the good. Love with intention. Listen mindfully. Play with utter abandon. Laugh a lot. Eliminate regret as an option. Continue to learn. Treat curiosity as vital as oxygen. Appreciate your friends. Be well. Do what you love. Walk to the edge again and again. Run with your passions and live as if this is all there is, because it is. So he's living a nice. A nice life now.
>> Farz: He's something. He's pretty wise. I think that he probably went through so many unique experiences that most people would never have. And you have to. Yeah, well, you have to come out of that with something like some learnings.
>> Taylor: Like, what a ride. In the documentary, there's a music journalist and he says, you know, it's still great music. That's what the record company would say. It's still great music. So, like, who cares?
Rob Fab's music addiction cost him his life, literally
But it also cost. It cost lives. It cost Rob's life, literally. And it costs the possibility of who Robin Fab could have been if they didn't have this happen to them. But also, like, it did happen, and there's a lot of, like, just interesting s*** about the world and music industry and history and all of that in. In this story. It's also a really weird story that the book begins with where he goes to. They go to Michael Jackson's house because Michael Jackson wanted to meet them. And they get there and they talk to Michael Jackson's parents in the dining room. But they don't meet Michael Jackson, but they can hear him running around upstairs and like playing like a kid. Weird. Isn't that weird? He's like, so the music industry makes you weird? And it's like, yeah, Michael Jackson's a prime example of that. Yes. Thank you.
>> Farz: I would. I would also say that if Rob had listened to Fab, then his life would have ended up probably differently because he would have been like, yeah, you just get knocked down, the new move forward. But it's something you just kind of.
>> Taylor: He kind of let it. He let it kind of take over. Yeah, he let the addiction take over his life and, you know, lived a really rough last. You know, it's wild that from like, it was 10 years between Millie Valley's found in 1988. Rob died in 1998. So 10 years. So it was two years of superstardom, eight years of crash.
>> Farz: Yeah. Chasing the ghosts of your past. Yeah, that's. That's rough going and. But, you know, it's a really. It's really interesting story. I. I had always kind of pictured it as like, these guys duped the world and I never really dug into it. I didn't care enough to really dig into it, but I know it's like, okay, well, it sounds like every other music industry story.
>> Taylor: Yeah. Yeah, it's a s***** industry, man.
>> Farz: It really is.
>> Taylor: Sucks.
>> Farz: Yeah, it really is.
>> Taylor: Yeah. Everything. Everything from like the. The most innocent of it is people not writing their own songs and you thinking that they do, you know?
>> Farz: Yeah. Yeah.
>> Taylor: And being like, oh, I thought those are your feelings, boo.
>> Farz: But like, Aerosmith didn't actually write Thormageddon. That's sad.
>> Taylor: I love that song. Yeah. Yeah. I'm glad I read it. It was fun. It was super fun. I'm super happy for Fab Heats. I think he's. He's just very lovely. And I also. I wonder how much worse all of this is going to get with AI music.
>> Farz: Yeah. You know, I did listen to a 50 Cent AI generated song and it was amazing. So good. But they did it in this like old timey, like 1920s jazz, smokey kind of vibe to it. And it sounded so cool, man. But I don't think it can create itself. I mean, it's just taking what people have already done. Yeah.
>> Taylor: Right.
>> Farz: So you still need the source of origination for now, for the next few years probably, maybe.
>> Taylor: Yeah. Yeah.
Taylor: I encourage you to watch every available Milli Vanilli video
>> Farz: Well, thank you for sharing. Do we have any mail you want to read out?
>> Taylor: It's been a long time. I have had some people reach out Morgan was texting me something, I think just yesterday in regards to your episode about the ACLU and freedom of speech and all of that about someone being like, you don't have the right to say these hateful things and someone being like, you actually do, because that's kind of the point.
>> Farz: That's kind of the point.
>> Taylor: Even though it sucks and who knows how long you can say anything but like, all those things, so.
>> Farz: Well, thank you for writing, Morgan, and if anybody else wants to write, please do so gmail.com and find us on all the socials at dimnafelpod. Anything else, Taylor?
>> Taylor: No, I just encourage you to watch every available Milli Vanilli video if you don't want to invest in watching the documentary. It's on Paramount plus, which is like a hard one, but, you know, it's an odd one. But if you have that, you can watch it. It's great. The book is. Is great. It just came out again. It's called, you know It's True by Fab Morvin and Parisa Rose. But just f****** go watch the girl. You know, it's music video. You'll just like, smile for your dear. It makes me so happy.
>> Farz: I might have to do that.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: After the next round of recordings.
>> Taylor: Sweet.
>> Farz: Well, I'll go ahead and cut it off. Thanks, Taylor.
>> Taylor: Thanks.