Imagine you've been unstoppable - created the most popular websites and movies in the history of well, websites and movies... what would be next? You see everyone on their phone all the time out in public, and think - that's it! Shows JUST for your phone! Sounds kind of dumb, but whatever - the only thing that could possibly go wrong would be if people were trapped in their houses and devoted to their TVs in a way that they hadn't been in ages. Right - That was Quibi - phone only shows that launched right before we were all stuck inside due to Covid! A spectacular failure from Meg Whitman & Jeffrey Katzenberg.
Imagine you've been unstoppable - created the most popular websites and movies in the history of well, websites and movies... what would be next? You see everyone on their phone all the time out in public, and think - that's it! Shows JUST for your phone!
Sounds kind of dumb, but whatever - the only thing that could possibly go wrong would be if people were trapped in their houses and devoted to their TVs in a way that they hadn't been in ages.
Right - That was Quibi - phone only shows that launched right before we were all stuck inside due to Covid! A spectacular failure from Meg Whitman & Jeffrey Katzenberg.
Taylor: Florence turned 11 yesterday. We had a party for her yesterday
>> Taylor: In the matter of the people of State of California vs. Orenthal James Simpson, case number BA096.
>> Farz: And so, my fellow Americans, ask not.
>> Taylor: What your country can do for you, ask what you can do.
>> Farz: And we are back. Girl, you know it's true.
>> Taylor: Girl, you know it's true.
>> Farz: Welcome back, Taylor. Post Milli Vanilli. How you doing today?
>> Taylor: Oh, good, good, good. I forgot to tell you that it was Florence's bir. She turned 11. We had a party for her yesterday. It was super fun.
>> Farz: 11 years old.
>> Taylor: 11. Remember when I was like, far as I'm pregnant. You were like, oh, my God.
>> Farz: I mean, I can't believe it because, like, look at my beard.
>> Taylor: Look at my gray streak in my hair. I guess we can.
>> Farz: My hairline is literally racing to my neck. Yeah. So I can't believe it.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: All the evidence is point to that being true.
Welcome to Doomed to Fail. We bring you historical stories of disasters and failures
>> Taylor: Cool.
>> Farz: Well, do you want to introduce us?
>> Taylor: Yes. Hello, everyone. Welcome to Doomed to Fail. We bring you historical stories of disasters and failures. And I am Taylor, joined by Fars. And today we'll hear from Fars.
>> Farz: Yeah. My story today, Taylor, it starts with this objective assessment of a business that was created and failed. And it ends in me ranting about Hollywood. And so. And so I'm just warning the audience that this will start completely objective and end in a rant. But you'll get why I'm doing the rants when I get the Hollywood rant part of this.
Netflix, Amazon Prime, Hulu, and others started streaming in 2018
But I'm going to start out by having you picture the world in 2018. Are you there? Are you picturing it?
>> Taylor: Yes.
>> Farz: So at this point, when it comes to content and digital media, I just realized, like, we're doing, like, both of our episodes are, like, I know, media related. Yeah. So at this point, 2018 streaming had basically turned out to be an obviously massively popular and necessary form of distribution of content. Netflix, which has started streaming in 2007, I did not realize it was that early. They had been around for a while doing this obviously. Fun fact. I don't know if you've heard of this before, but do you know where we get the Roku devices from?
>> Taylor: Aliens.
>> Farz: Back in, like, when. When they were still sending DVDs to people, Netflix was. Reed Hastings, the CEO at that time, was like, let's invent this little device for the home. And then if you want to, like, stream our stuff, then we'll ship you this device and you can plug it into your tv and then we can stream to that box and then to your tv. And they were like, on the eve of launching. And Reed Hastings was like, wait a minute. This is a terrible business strategy. That means that we have to, like, own and control the hardware devices, as opposed to just signing licensing deals with all the other devices where they can just have our app on their devices. And so they ended up spinning Roku, which was the device, into its own separate company. And that's where the Roku comes from. It comes from a 2007 experiment with initial streaming done through Netflix.
>> Taylor: Remember Enron almost invented it earlier.
>> Farz: Was it Enron that was trying to do it through Blockbuster? Yeah, that's what it was. Yeah.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: Terrible decisions all around. So in 2018, at this point, Amazon Prime, Hulu, and Netflix were basically just, like, consuming the digital streaming market. And then a bunch of other players started to get involved. Got hbo, Max, you got Discovery plus, you got Disney, Disney plus, espn, Paramount, and a ton of others that decided to kind of enter the streaming marketplace their own content. But there are several things to point out about who existed in the market before and who came after. So Netflix, Amazon prime, and Hulu, they were not content creators in the beginning. They were technology companies that was created to distribute other people's content through. But they were the first. So they had established their reputation, their brand, their value, and licensing agreements to kind of, like, consume the market. Who came after were content creators. They already had brand value. They already had content. They already had a reputation. Like, everybody, like Disney has content, like HBO has content. And so that's why they also experienced tremendous success.
Jeffrey Katzenberg started out in Hollywood in the 70s
So it was under these circumstances that a Hollywood giant rises and thinks, I can do it, too. Do you know who it is?
>> Taylor: Is it Jeff Bezos?
>> Farz: No. Well, yeah. I mean, I guess he's now a Hollywood giant as well. But no, it's another Jeff. Jeffrey Katzenberg.
>> Taylor: Okay.
>> Farz: You know, that name is really.
>> Taylor: No, but I love it.
>> Farz: It's all good. I'm gonna go into the details here. Yeah, let's listen here. Don't go look it up, people. Just listen. Keep listening.
>> Taylor: Stop it.
>> Farz: So Katzenberg started out in, like, the early 70s in Hollywood. He started his career at Paramount and moved his way up the ranks until he was given the task of reviving the Star Trek franchise, which he did successfully. From there, he was working under CEO Michael Eisner at Paramount when Eisner was tapped by the Disney family to take over as the CEO of the Walt Disney Company. And then Eisner obviously brings Katzenberg over with him and made him chairman of Walt Disney Studio, which was the film division of Walt Disney. In three years, Cats and Bird took what was basically considered bottom of the barrel movie production studio. Like Disney Touchstone. Yeah. Disney's Touchstone brand was like kind of garbage.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: And didn't put out anything respectable from that point on. You're gonna love this part. Under Katzenberg, and only within three years, they ended up releasing Pretty Woman, Dead Poet Society, Good Morning Vietnam. And he also expanded into sitcoms, television series, including Home Improvement and the Golden Girls.
>> Taylor: Holy s***. That's all big stuff. Older than I thought the story was going.
>> Farz: Yep. Yeah.
>> Taylor: Wow. Okay.
>> Farz: You did a lot. So about 10 years after starting a Disney, Katzenberg's relationship there just got super afraid. There was a lot of infighting. It's one of those power dynamics where it's like, who's the boss? It just gets really ugly. And he ended up quitting and then later on suing Disney. They ended up settling for an estimate of $250 million. So at this point, we are reaching that point when this guy is like a mega super rich guy in Hollywood. He would then go on to found DreamWorks, which also was crazy successful. That was the studio behind Saving Private Ryan, Gladiator, Castaway, Shrek, Kung Fu Panda. Like just everything was a hit maker, like one after the other. So that was all true until he launched his next business.
Katzenberg and Whitman founded short-form content company Quibi
On the topic of today's story, a company called Quibi. Do you remember Quibi? Oh, yeah.
>> Taylor: And did not watch it because I don't do that. But continue. It's exciting.
>> Farz: So because it's all recent, that's what's interesting about it. Like, we actually saw the rise and downfall super quickly. so Katzenberg got together with a woman named Meg Whitman. Meg Whitman was a pretty big deal in terms of how like corporate CEOs, she. She kind of had a typical executive kind of elevation where she was VP and SVP at a bunch of companies. Her real success career wise came in 1998 when she became CEO of eBay. Back when it was like 30 employees. In 10 years, she grew it to many multiples of billions and 15,000 employees. So she knew what she was doing there. Yeah, she got in trouble like in 2007. Ish. Because she assaulted one of her team members. So she ended up leaving. She ended up leaving ebay shortly thereafter. And she took a few years off, then went on to become CEO of Hewlett Packard. And then it sounded like it sound things that heal. Packard sucked, basically. So she ended up leaving that her hit was ebay. Like she was. She did great with eBay. That's what it was. By virtue of just being super powerful and successful people. Whitman and Katzenberg were acquaintances. I guess if you're like super rich and successful, like you just. They give you like, probably like a SIM card that has every other successful rich person's.
>> Taylor: I was gonna say it together to like drink baby blood and stuff. So.
>> Farz: Yeah, yeah, the adrenochromes.
>> Taylor: Right, yeah.
>> Farz: And so basically Katzenberg came up with the idea of Quibi goes to Whitman and was like, I'm the creative side. I got hit after hit after hit on the creative side. You're a professional CEO. I don't totally understand this, but, like, I guess being the head of a studio is much more challenging or different than being the head of, like a regular company. I don't know, it just seems like the personality types are very different than the very, like, art creative versus, like, numbers types.
>> Taylor: Yeah, yeah.
>> Farz: The way it was described was that it was kind of like a right brain. Brain. Left brain partnership between Katzenberg and Whitman. The idea with Quibi, which, like, in hindsight it's like, of course it was kind of stupid. But the idea behind Quibi was that high quality, short form content would be the next big thing. And quick. Quick Quibi was short for quick bites. That's what it was meant to be. And the idea behind it was to create Hollywood style content with a runtime of 10 minutes or less that was only viewable on your phone.
>> Taylor: When you say, when you said the quick bite thing, it reminds me that Net, the name Netflix, is made up of two words that I would never use to describe those things. Like I would never say the Net and I would never say a flick.
>> Farz: But Netflix, is that really what it is?
>> Taylor: Yeah, isn't it?
>> Farz: I guess.
The app launched on April 6, 2020. And that date is important
>> Taylor: All right, Kevin.
>> Farz: So they start fundraising because this was going to require a ton of cash. And given the combo of who the two founders were, they fundraised like crazy. So Disney, 21st, Century Fox, NBC, Sony, Viacom, JP Morgan, all these companies basically just threw cash at them and they ended up raising around $1.7 billion. The app launched on April 6, 2020. And that date is important. Important because do you recall what else was going on in the world back then?
>> Taylor: Covid.
>> Farz: Yeah. So April 20, April of 2020 was the height of COVID lockdowns. That's when about 50% of the global population was under mandatory stay at home orders.
>> Taylor: It seems like a good time to release something like this.
>> Farz: You think so? But what do you watch when you're at home?
>> Taylor: Movies.
>> Farz: You watch your TV or you're on your lap.
>> Taylor: That's true.
>> Farz: You're not.
>> Taylor: I'm not on the subway.
>> Farz: Right, yeah. Right then. So we launched as a top app download with app within the App Store and Google Play and like within a week it dropped off the top 50 download list. Like, it went super high. That immediately tanked.
>> Taylor: Wow.
>> Farz: Katzenberg actually called it immediately and said Covid basically wrecked the utility of the app. And they started implementing changes to the app to address the fact that people just weren't consuming media on mobile devices as much anymore. They introduced the option to cast to other devices in the home. They made it so the content would actually launch in landscape mode by default. Rather portrait mode. Yeah.
>> Taylor: Oh, right. Because it was all portrait mode. That's weird.
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: That's not how you watch TV at all.
>> Farz: Exactly. They also didn't initially roll it out with any sort of social feature, so sharing functionality didn't exist. I mean, it was just like a kind of like a half baked concept. I think within the first few months they were off their projections for adoption of users by 4x. So they missed their goals tremendously. They'd launched a paid version, so you'd have like a free version and then after that you could pay $5 a month for one a version without ads or eight for version with ads or without ads. Sorry, but that's how much like Hulu Netflix cost back then. So it was like, why would I go with this?
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: So because they'd invested so heavily on in the concept of like the highest of quality content, they were spending $100,000 per minute of content produced. So chewing through that cash.
>> Taylor: Wow.
>> Farz: So just six months after launching, Katzenberg and Whitman decided that the most ethical thing to do was to call it quits rather than burn through the remaining cash reserves. Neither of them saw any pathway to reaching any sort of breakout velocity. And on some level, probably true. But also, six months isn't enough to prove anything.
>> Taylor: I know. And I feel like there's so much work that had to be put into it. It was like a lot of famous people made shows, didn't they?
>> Farz: Yeah, yeah, I'm going to talk about that here in a second. That's where my rant starts. But also it's, it's, it's something that like, is indicative of if you're good at something, that doesn't mean you're good at everything. Like was a great eBay CEO and Katzenberg was a great creative person when it came to developing new content. But like this was a tech company. Like, it was. Like, it was tech. It should have been tech and social plus media. Like, there was a lot that they missed. Missed the mark on here. They wound the business down, returning any remaining cash to investors, and sold the content library that they developed to that point to Roku for, like, they estimate it's like, south of $100 million out of the 1.7 billion they had. None of the shows went anywhere. Most of the content was commissioned by Quibi for, like, a single season. So the vast majority just ended up dying when the business died.
>> Taylor: Right. I don't see anyone, like, talking about Kobe show they miss.
>> Farz: So the only one that I can think of. Well, yes, that's true. So Reno 911 is the only one that out of the list of shows that I actually recognize because they were canceled in 2009, Quibi signed them to do another season, additional season, the eighth season of the show, and that actually did go out and get released fully through Roku, and I have no idea how good it was. I was never into Reno 91 1, but, like, presumably, if you're. I know. I know you do. I assume if you're a fan of Rito911, that's probably the one story that.
>> Taylor: You would latch onto this weekend. In last podcast on the left, Henry made a joke about it. Like, it was, like, very casual, but he was like, new boot groovin. And I was just laughing because it's such a funny scene. Just like, yes, I love it so much.
>> Farz: That's from real911, I take it.
>> Taylor: Oh, my God. You know how he, like, wears those, like, little shorts and he got. He got these, like, white copper boots on layaway. He's, like, made my last payment today. I got them on layaway. He's like, new boot grooving. He's just, like, walking around in his new boots. There's another thing that we say all the time. This got me excited is there's, like, a beginning, you know, like the.
I think the heavy reliance on celebrity celebrity endorsements hurt Covid's business model
Like a little skit before the show starts. Like, the little skit where one of the guys, he. He goes, whoa, I just have the craziest dream. And the other guy goes, you know, you're driving, right? And they hit a tree, Juan. And I say that all the time. Whenever he's. I'm like, you know, you're driving, right? He's like, yeah, I kind of thought.
>> Farz: It was similar to Super Troopers, but, yeah, one of my favorite movies ever. Yeah, there was this. This is why the Dumber Show. So one of the shows they produced, which, like, tells you the direction they were trying to go with this thing. It's called Chrissy's Court. And that also. So actually, that was, like, the most successful thing they produced because when that moved over to Roku, it had three full seasons. So it went two seasons past the Quibi time. But the whole point of it was that Chrissy Teigen was a judge, and her mom, whose name is Pepper Ty, is a bailiff, and people run through arbitration with her judging them.
>> Taylor: Was it real or fake? Fake.
>> Farz: I mean, it was real.
>> Taylor: Like Judge Judy real.
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: What? But when you see season, like, how many minutes of content is that? It's not that many, right?
>> Farz: It's not that many minutes. Yeah. Because it was all supposed to be under 10 minutes.
>> Taylor: Yeah. So like, 10 episodes under 10 minutes.
>> Farz: Yeah. Yeah. So, like, every. All their shows kind of seem like terrible. One show was called the Shape of Pasta, and they also had, like, a.
>> Taylor: Murder house, one, like, a murder innovation show on the Quibi.
>> Farz: I don't know. They had a lot of stuff they were in production on. Like, I mean, they really burned through that cash fast. But they had this. They had this, like, stupid ad during the super bowl one year or that year they launched, and it was basically like a bunch of bank robbers who are trying to get away, and the getaway driver is busy watching some show on Quibi with Chance the Rapper, like, dancing. And I feel like the world hit, like, peak Hollywood around this time. It was like, around the time that Gal Gadot video Imagine was released, and we all realized that people are, like, nuts. And, like, I think it's true that Covid hurt the business model, but I also think the heavy reliance on the cult of personality also hurt. Like, if you think about, like, TikTok, there's, like, an authenticity behind the content that's being generated there because it's real people experiencing real life. And with this content, as I was looking, looking it over and what they're producing, on the one hand, it, like, dilutes the celebrities involved with them because they're screen these stupid, like, 10 minutes of, like, them talking and thinking about things. Then on the other, it relies on the watcher's affinity for the celebrity to keep engaging and paying for the app. There was one show called the Joker with Will Smith where he, like, just talks about funny stories of his. It's like, I don't like Will Smith that much. Hey, $5. Like, I don't want to watch Chrissy Teigen's mom. I'm Not. I have no affinity towards these people.
>> Taylor: No. Yeah.
>> Farz: So. And this is the part where, like, it kind of blew my mind a little bit.
Jeffrey Katzenberg becomes co chair of Biden's 2024 reelection campaign
So cats and birds next foray. And probably the biggest impact I would think he's had on the world today is he becomes co chair of Biden's 2024 reelection campaign. Oh, and again, I don't know how much weight to put into this. This quote I'm going to read out from the Hollywood Reporter that they came out in like, July of 2024. The article is entitled, quote, as dump Biden movement thistles, Hollywood turns its angry eyes on Jeffrey Katzenberg. And Katzenberg was the campaign's connection to the money in Hollywood. You know that event everybody talks about where Biden doesn't recognize George Clooney, and then George Clooney writes the op ed in New York Times.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: That's Katzenberg's fundraiser. Yeah.
>> Taylor: Whitman also is a big Republican.
>> Farz: Oh, I didn't know that because she.
>> Taylor: She was like, at a U.S. ambassador. Like, there's a lot of pictures of her, like, with Mitt Romney and like, she's an Arnold Schwarzenegger and stuff.
>> Farz: I totally didn't know that.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: Are you sure? Are you thinking about Carly Fiorino? I think you're thinking about Carly Fiorino.
>> Taylor: No, I'm literally on Wikipedia. I lost it. My computer stopped.
>> Farz: That's fine. I can. I can believe it. I mean, she's worth like, $4.7 billion. Yeah. Like, it's not hard to believe that.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: This is the part of the Hollywood Reporter article that I don't know how much weight to give to. But here's a direct quote from. Says Katzenberg, still stinging from his Quibi epic fail in 2020, was hoping to leverage his political influence in a Biden campaign into a comeback of sorts. Katzenberg has always been in the shadow of Steven Spielberg and David Geffen, who have quietly become elder statesmen. He's like a little brother trying to prove himself. He can't help himself.
>> Taylor: And why not do weird if you have all the money? I don't know.
>> Farz: Instead of this. So I mean.
>> Taylor: I mean, do. Why not do this? Like, why not do Quibi and, like, try weird things if you have, like, infinite money? Like, because they did so many other things I'm looking at.
>> Farz: Yeah, I'm just. My last line here is, did Quibi's failure give us the world we currently in Dot. Dot. Definitely. Yes.
>> Taylor: Explain that more.
>> Farz: Because if he wasn't on the committee and hadn't been.
>> Taylor: Oh, yeah. Yeah.
>> Farz: Pushing this because the story on the Hollywood Reporter goes, all these money interests in Hollywood. I mean, you should read the story, because there's a lot of very, very angry, very, very rich people who are very specifically angry at Katzenberg because he was the connection to all the finances and resources. He was the one telling everyone, everything's fine, everything's fine. Just give us your money, write the checks, yada, yada, yada. If that. If that hadn't happened and the money dried up, then the outcomes would look different. That's why it's literally angry eyes aimed at. That's what the story actually says, is they see him as, like, the main problem here.
>> Taylor: God, he made so many good movies.
>> Farz: Made so many good movies.
>> Taylor: I'm just like, this is ridiculous. Like, executive in charge of production for who? Bridger, Rabbit, Little Mermaid, Rescuers, Out Under, Beauty of the Beast, Aladdin, Night Before Christmas, Lion King, Pocahontas, Ants, American Beauty.
>> Farz: Yeah, every. Every.
>> Taylor: Like. Which is lovely.
>> Farz: The vast majority of his role, like, his filmography, like, it's movies that you've seen or at very least, heard of. Like, he is.
>> Taylor: But his television list is not very good.
>> Farz: Well, he did Golden Girls, so I.
>> Taylor: Don'T see a Golden Girl on this list.
>> Farz: I believe it should be under Dreamworks.
>> Taylor: Whatever. Yeah. So that's wild.
Jeffrey G. says Hollywood lionizes its artists too much
I wonder if anyone was, like, sad.
>> Farz: Five years ago.
>> Taylor: I can't believe how long ago that was.
>> Farz: Or, like, I know it feels like an age.
>> Taylor: Like, I'm like, God, what even was it, you know?
>> Farz: Yeah, I know. I was doing the math when I said 2018 on how old flow was. It was like, holy.
>> Taylor: I know. Miles was born by then.
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: Cute.
>> Farz: So, yeah, my. This segued into, like, a weird spot because of, like, where it ends. But I don't know. It's kind of like a good indicator of, like. Yeah. If someone's just good at something, don't make them in charge of a bunch of other stuff, because everything. Also my regular rants, stop listening to Hollywood people. These people are not better than we are rich. And you can see their faces. Doesn't make them better. Like, why do we care what these people think? Their opinions are worthless.
>> Taylor: Sometimes I wonder, like, what. I mean, this is stupid. But, like, who people would be if they didn't have that, you know?
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: You didn't have that media or that, like, thing. Like, well, who would you be like, in your actual heart? Because you were like a. You are an amalgam of all of your experiences. You know, how many of your Experiences are experiencing someone else's experiences through, like, film and television.
>> Farz: Yeah, you know? Yeah, that's a good point.
>> Taylor: I'm a horror movie.
>> Farz: Well, no, we talk about this all the time, where it's like, the Academy Award, and it's like, how the. How this, like, whole world, like, stops to watch this. Like, it's not actually an American thing either, because, like, they do it everywhere. Like, other countries also lionize our artists. And, like, I don't know what that is. It's really gross. I really. I really dislike that part of culture more than pretty much any other part of culture is, like, the fact that we think these people are better than we are. And then everybody has to stop and watch the Academy Awards where they pay each other on the back. Why? Why?
>> Taylor: Yeah. And, like. But then also to, like, tie it back to, like, the milli vanilla stuff, like, how many people ruin their lives trying to achieve that level of fame also, you know?
>> Farz: Yeah, yeah, yeah. Actually, this is. This is a really stupid example. Last night, there's this show on. I think it's on Hulu. It's like, jail is the name of it. And it's literally just shows people getting booked into jails, and, like, they do crazy stuff and they film, and it's all reality tv. And. And I was. I literally was thinking to myself, I was. I was like, why do I always think there's such a crazy, like, super disproportionate volume of crazy people in the world compared to, like, normal people? Because you watch stuff like this and think that this is what it all is. Like, that's why.
>> Taylor: Absolutely.
>> Farz: No, it's such a small fraction. But it goes to your point of, like, you. You watch the Academy Awards, like, oh, everybody's here. It's all just doable. Everybody can do this. It's like, yeah, it's such a tiny percentile.
>> Taylor: That's so funny. No, totally. I watch, like, I watch my favorite reality reality shows, Hoarders. I've seen all. Every single episode. Like, watching it and watching the houses get clean, that makes me clean my own house. All the things. But. But I definitely watch it. And every time I'm like, these g****** people vote. You know? Like. But, like, not everyone's a hoarder, you know? Like, not everyone's just called jail. That. A show called jail sounds like something out of Idiocracy. For sure.
>> Farz: It's kind of fun when you just want to, like, zone out because you just hear someone screaming, like, okay, what did this guy. Yeah, it's. It's a treat.
>> Taylor: It is hilarious.
>> Farz: And Jeffrey Gatsburg did not produce it, so.
>> Taylor: Okay, drop her.
>> Farz: But.
>> Taylor: That'S fine.
This one definitely was due to fail without Covid
What a weird. What a weird little thing.
>> Farz: Yeah, yeah. Weird little blimp blipping the radar of tech and digital media. But I thought it was kind of fun. So that one. This one definitely was due to fail. So there you go.
>> Taylor: Absolutely. Also.
>> Farz: Also probably would have failed without Covid.
>> Taylor: Yeah. I mean, I can kind of see. So, like, at first when you said that, I was like, yes, you. We needed to consume media, but you're totally right that no one wants to do it on their phone if they have their tv. If you're stuck at home, like, people were, like, watching. I mean, I'm sure, like, the. The numbers for, like, Netflix were insane. And then, like, you know, figuring that out, but. But I wonder if people would have watched it, like, on the train or. That's nothing I can think of.
>> Farz: But what would you. But, like, what would you have watched? Would you have watched, like, a show like, the Chrissy Teigen? Like, it's. It's also just bad content because all of it was because they got these people. Because it's Jeffrey Katzen. So he's. He's up there, and so he signs all these people to these contracts, and it's like, do I really. Do I need to, like, focus on what Chance the Rapper is doing on a Monday? Like, I don't care. Like, I don't want. These people don't affect me at all.
>> Taylor: I mean, but a lot of people watch, you know, an insane amount of rally TV and care about it a lot. So they could have.
>> Farz: That's true.
>> Taylor: You know, but it's not.
>> Farz: I don't know.
>> Taylor: I don't know. I don't know when I would have watched it. Yeah, but if it was great, then I would have watched it. But then it wasn't great. You know what I mean? Yeah. So if you had, like, great content, people would find it. But. But to your point, I don't. It wasn't that great. So, like, people aren't gonna. It was a go out of your way thing.
>> Farz: To find something, you'd have to go out of your way. Yeah, exactly. Exactly.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: So anyhow, that's all I got.
>> Taylor: I forgot about that.
>> Farz: Yeah.
We are having guests. If you want to be a guest please let us know
There you go. Little blast from the past. Do we have any listener mail?
>> Taylor: I don't have anything else, but thank you, everyone, for again, dealing with. Not dealing with, supporting us through our re. Releases. Thank you for listening to them. You do. People are listening to them. I appreciate you. If you have any ideas or questions doom to fell pod gmail.com we are also going to in a few weeks record with my husband as far as we'll schedule it out but my husband is does a newsletter and has a card deck on mental models. So he's going to talk a little bit about different mental models and some historical failures. So that'll be fun.
>> Farz: It'll be very, very fun. We are having guests. If you want to be a guest please let us know. And, and also I will say like this little break from recording really helped with like re energizing me and getting that the creative juices going again. So you know, net positive I think.
>> Taylor: Okay. I have read maybe 15 Romantasy books all in the same series and I'm on the last one. So if anyone out there also has read every single one of the Sarah J. Maas books. So I've read. I read all of the Court of Thorn Roses books up to the one that we have. I read the entire Throne of Glass. Now I read Crescent City 1, the end of Crescent City 2. I screamed and I'm losing my mind and I have nobody to talk to. And I'm on the very last book that is available. I'm on the third Crescent City book of this like unbelievably insane huge amount of books I've read the past couple months. If anybody is also there or has read it and wants to talk about it with me, please let me know dunfellpodgmail.com because I have no one to talk to and I'm losing my mind.
>> Farz: And we can spin this into a book club podcast episode.
>> Taylor: Oh my God. Like literally my heart is beating. It loses my mind.
>> Farz: When you come to Austin, Taylor Swinton Austin in February, which I'm really sorry about for this one show.
>> Taylor: Husband speaking. My husband, I haven't asked you if I go yet, but I think you're going to say yes because I already got.
>> Farz: You got a week. You got a week to ask him. So we're good. We should be good. But when you come you we have to. I have to take you to vintage bookstore. Like that is the only place I actually really, really want to take you because it is fun as s*** and we're going to have a great time.
>> Taylor: Can't wait. Yay. Cool.
All right. With that we can go ahead and cut it off. Taylor, thank you as always
>> Farz: All right.
>> Taylor: All right.
>> Farz: With that we can go ahead and cut it off. Taylor, thank you as always.
>> Taylor: Thank Sam.