Man we love a good mutiny! This, however, is a bad one. The deadliest one in history! It's 1628, and the Dutch East India Company is up to no good... We'll talk about the syphilis-addled brain of Jeronimus Cornelisz, who staged a mutiny, killed a TON of people, and ultimately was executed for all the wildly unnecessary shenanigans. Grab a Dramamine and join us!
Man we love a good mutiny! This, however, is a bad one. The deadliest one in history! It's 1628, and the Dutch East India Company is up to no good... We'll talk about the syphilis-addled brain of Jeronimus Cornelisz, who staged a mutiny, killed a TON of people, and ultimately was executed for all the wildly unnecessary shenanigans.
Grab a Dramamine and join us!
Taylor: I did get a new work computer, but it's pixelated
>> Taylor: In the matter of the people of State of California vs. Orenthal James Simpson, case number BA096.
>> Farz: And so, my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you. There we go. Hey, Taylor, how are you?
>> Taylor: Good, good, good. I did get a new computer, but it's obviously not this one because this computer is still being an. But I got a new work computer, so at least at work people can see me and hear me at the same time.
>> Farz: It works good enough. I mean, it's a little pixelated, but whatever. It's. It's doing the job.
How was your weekend? Really, really nice. My in laws are here. Yesterday we went to a sound bath
How was your weekend?
>> Taylor: Really, really nice. My in laws are here. We went to. Yesterday we went to a thing called the Integratron, which is like a big sound bath here in Joshua Tree land, which is cool. And today we took. There's a tram in Palm Springs that goes up the mountain we've never done. And we got up there and there was like a foot of snow.
>> Farz: Oh, wow.
>> Taylor: Super fun. So we had like. So we played around in the snow for a little bit. We had a nice lunch and yeah, it was good.
>> Farz: How high up were you?
>> Taylor: 8,000 and something feet in Joshua Tree. Yeah. Well, I mean, we have Mount I. You know, I'm like. I'm like 5,000ft now.
>> Farz: I guess that's true. I'm thinking back to like that golf course and there were mountains behind it. That does track. Okay.
>> Taylor: Yeah, yeah. We're in the mountains where we are a bunch of valleys. So.
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: You must have really good lung capacity if you live at 5000 elevation.
>> Taylor: I honestly must.
>> Farz: You must.
>> Taylor: It says. Well, yeah, I think, because I'm pretty high up this hill also, so I think I'm like 5,000ft in my. In my house.
>> Farz: All right, Good for you. That is. That's really fun. The thought of snow seems very alien and foreign to me right now.
>> Taylor: I know. It's cool because, like, you know, it's 30 degree difference between the bottom of the mountain and the top. So it was fun because, like, we had a lot of rain and Friday it was like living in a cloud. You couldn't see 10ft up house, you know, like, it was just like. And I had to drive the kids to their music classes and like, you really couldn't see anything driving down the street. It was crazy. But because of that, like, it was a lot of rain up here, but then it was a lot of snow up there Also, Benjamin Franklin's ghost is officially hibernating. And I miss him so much.
>> Farz: Do you check on him I do.
>> Taylor: I have a little thermometer in there that I check on my phone. And then I go in there and I touch his head and he moves his head like, you know, like, he doesn't want me to do that. Yeah, but I need insurance that he's alive.
>> Farz: And then when do we see him again?
>> Taylor: Like March. He'll start scratching around and then we can let him out. Fun.
>> Farz: All right, well, hopefully he has a good snooze. That's a long time.
>> Taylor: I know. I miss him so much.
>> Farz: What a great pet. You know, just goes away for four months every year. And he doesn't eat. He doesn't eat, he doesn't drink.
>> Taylor: I know. So we can, like, go on. We're going to go away for Christmas and he'll just be in the shed. He's a desert tortoise. If anyone has not heard me say that out loud before. It's not any other thing that I'm putting in a shed.
>> Farz: Yeah, no, it's not a bear. Like, she's not hibernating. A pet bear.
>> Taylor: No, no, he's not a Tortoise. I am 30. I'm 3,500 square feet. So square feet. 3,500ft.
>> Farz: Elevation.
>> Taylor: Yes, elevation. So not 5,000.
>> Farz: That's still pretty high. That's still pretty up there.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
Doomed to Fail brings you historical disasters and failures once a week
>> Farz: Well, why don't you go ahead and kick us off with a little intro?
>> Taylor: Hello, everyone. Welcome to Doomed to Fail. We bring you historical disasters and failures once a week. And I'm Taylor, joined by Fars. And before you ask, Fars is going first today.
>> Farz: Just don't even ask. Like literally.
>> Taylor: I know.
>> Farz: Like, stop writing your hate mail. Stop writing your hate mail. Put your hand down.
>> Taylor: Honestly, all of the Twitter hate.
>> Farz: So I have a story to cover today, and I realized halfway through researching this, that last podcast on the left did like a multi part series on this and I didn't listen to it. I'm sure you did, Taylor. And if you want probably a more deeply researched version of this story rather than the Cliff Notes I'm going to provide, definitely go to them. I have no idea how many parts it was, knowing that most probably three or four parts is the story of the Batavia. Okay, did you listen to that one?
>> Taylor: You know what? I got bored in the middle of it.
>> Farz: Okay, well then great. Great.
>> Taylor: Usually so I don't think it needs five parts. I think it needs one Cliff Note part. I think you were right, Chris. Yes.
>> Farz: Okay.
>> Taylor: Yes, yes. And it's very rare that that happens, but I definitely stopped listening to that one, I was like, let's wrap this up, guys.
You're writing about a mutiny on a ship called the Batavia
>> Farz: So there's only so much you can go into with, like, mutinies. Like, they all kind of end the same way. I did learn some really interesting. Okay, fine. I gave away the biggest lead here. It's about a mutiny on a ship called the Batavia, but it has a distinction of being the deadliest mutiny in world history, which is kind of fun.
>> Taylor: And I do like a mutiny. So, yeah, I can't wait.
>> Farz: I know you love mutinies. Yes.
>> Taylor: You tell me. You tell me about this. I love it.
>> Farz: I'm going to reference one of your mutinies on this.
The Dutch East India Company basically controlled trade and shipping between Europe and Asia
So let's talk Batavia. And the starting point for this conversation is this company, which I never knew how big of a deal it was, actually never even heard the name before. It's called the Dutch East India India Company. I heard of the East India Company, the British one, but I didn't know there was a Dutch version of it as well.
>> Taylor: Yeah, everyone was going down there for the goods.
>> Farz: Spice. The spice. Like, it's like Dune, except the original Dune. So the Dutch East India Company basically controlled trade and shipping between Europe and Asia. And this will be, like, the late 1500s to, like, the mid-1600s. In the 1600s, the Dutch Republic was just an assortment of different provinces that joined forces to assert a ton of naval power. They're apparently one of the most powerful collection of countries in the world back then.
>> Taylor: Oh, did you watch Frankenstein?
>> Farz: Yes.
>> Taylor: I'm just picturing those guys in the Dutch boat, but not Colt.
>> Farz: Yeah. I think they were Russian, weren't they?
>> Taylor: No, they were Dutch.
>> Farz: Were they Dutch? Okay.
>> Taylor: Oh, the only way. Okay. I actually would kind of know that difference because the little bit of German. I know. You can hear it a little bit in Dutch.
>> Farz: Oh, really? Okay.
>> Taylor: Yeah. Like, enough. Like. Like every fifth word I like. I'm like, oh, that word. I recognize that word. You know, that makes sense.
>> Farz: I mean, and I did. I can't remember what the name on the back of the ship was, but it was weird enough to where I thought this. I can't place this. Which is by Dutch.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: So, yeah, I didn't know they were super powerful. They were, like, one of the biggest and best navies in the world back then.
>> Taylor: Mm.
>> Farz: And also, the Dutch East India Company was kind of a company, but it was also, like, sort of like a government entity. Like, it could actually launch its own wars. It could establish its own forts. It actually. It was a pretty powerful thing. And as a result, it had A lot of soldiers that were part of their ranks and things like that.
>> Taylor: Mm.
>> Farz: This part is totally relevant today's story. But the very first stock market was in the Netherlands, in Holland. It was established specifically because people want to be able to buy and own and trade pieces of the East Dutch East India Company.
>> Taylor: I feel we talked about this before because, well, when we talked about, like the tulips in Holland, right. And like, that was like a way that people were like, trading on something that didn't exist, like you do in a stock market. We also talked about it as being like a way to invest before a stock market was to buy a piece of a boat.
>> Farz: That's the Essex. Yep.
>> Taylor: Right. So that's like folding into that being like, oh, I'm going to buy a piece of this, own a steak or whatever. And then that kind of came, became the idea for the.
>> Farz: This is more than a boat. Like, I know what you're talking about. And that was how like a lot of, like, yeah, you buy pieces of a boat and then whatever came back, which is profit sharing amongst the partners. But these India Trading Company, like, it was huge. It wasn't just like, like, I'll get into this later on in the story. But, like, they weren't just like going there and bringing spice back and like, they were doing like government building stuff. Like it was a whole, whole enterprise there. And also this is like one ship of hundreds. They were deploying simultaneously. So it was kind of a big deal. But yeah, the very first stock exchange in Amsterdam. The Amsterdam Stock Exchange, the very first stock Dutch East India Company. So.
Batavia ship was named after Dutch city in modern day Jakarta
So back to the Batavia. The Batavia ship was named after Batavia, which is a Dutch city in modern day Jakarta. Later this story, I'm just going to refer to it as Jakarta. Like the city. When they. I refer to the city, I'm just going to call it Jakarta because, like, it's already confusing enough all these different names I'm going to be reading and I don't even need to make it harder.
>> Taylor: So, I mean, there's like a s*** ton of colonialism and bad things happening during this time.
>> Farz: Everywhere. Yeah, everywhere. Like, it's human history forever and always.
>> Taylor: Let'S get a boat and go steal stuff.
>> Farz: Well, they were actually doing a lot of trading, so. So part of what they were doing was in this ship specifically, they were carrying what they're calling high value goods, meaning silver and gold.
>> Taylor: A lot.
>> Farz: A lot of parts back then, I guess in India or the region that we came to be known as India, mostly that's what they wanted, they just wanted silver for spices. Like that's, that's, that was it. And so that was kind of the trade off being made at the time. But in addition to precious metals, I guess they also were carrying high ranking members of the military, the government, because again, it was more than just like a company at this point.
>> Taylor: You know how. I'm so sorry. You know how. That's why India Pale Ale is called India Pale Ale. Because you, it was, it wouldn't go bad on a trip from Europe to India.
>> Farz: Yeah, that's why they had to make it so hoppy.
>> Taylor: Yeah, I don't like it anymore. I'm too old.
>> Farz: I know. I love it. So the Batavia in this case, it was a flagship fleet of a newer newish class in the early 1600s. It was described as a floating treasury mobile command center for the company. So it was that kind of a thing. So Batavia was set to have her maiden voyage on October 29, 1628. And this gets a little bit in the weeds, but I thought it was really interesting because it describes how absolutely horrific and terrifying and how insane everybody who was on the show had to have been. But it's. The whole point of it was it was supposed to leave this one port out of the Netherlands and go to again, present day Jakarta and Indonesia. The route they took was called the Brower Route. And if you can visualize it, it basically means you sail south from North Atlantic to South Atlantic. So you go from the Netherlands all the way around the tip of Africa called the Cape of Good Horn and they dock in Cape Town where they restock and do all those things. Then they go south a little bit and then just cut straight east across the Indian Ocean before. Right before they get to Australia. And then they have to cut all the way north and go straight up to Jakarta. That's the route. The Netherlands to Cape Town route is two months. That's how long you'd have to be on this ship.
>> Taylor: I'm so carsick or motion sick thinking about it.
>> Farz: It's got to be so terrible, just awful. And then after you do a little dock for like two to four weeks in Cape Town, then you have 40 days to cross the Indian Ocean and then you cut north for 20 more days. So like it's. Yeah, it's basically two, two month stints with like a quick two weeks, three weeks in between.
>> Taylor: I just feel like I could maybe do on like a Carnival cruise ship, Titanic.
>> Farz: I don't even want to do that. I don't even want to do that.
>> Taylor: I don't want to, but I feel like maybe. But did you ever watch the John Adams show on hbo? No. There. There's a part where he goes back to England or France or something. Like, makes him think he goes to France, but he just throws up the entire way.
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: And like, the bowels of the ship and you're like, yeah, that makes a lot of sense. That sounds terrible.
>> Farz: So terrible. Because, I mean, what is. What are toilets like there? What is hygiene like? What are showers like?
>> Taylor: Oh, none. There's nothing. And there's rats.
>> Farz: And there's rats. Nothing. Yeah.
>> Taylor: Bedbugs. And it's terrible. Yeah.
Commander Francisco Pelsart and second in command hated each other
>> Farz: So the ship, the Batavia, in this case, was staffed by Commander Francisco Pelsart, and his second in command, the skipper, was Ariane Jacobs. And these two just publicly hated each other. Like, it was well known they hate each other. Francisco hated Ariane because he thought he was a drunkard who spoke out of turn and basically just talked a lot of. And Ariane just hated Francisco because he called him out on it. Right.
>> Taylor: Like, was that true?
>> Farz: It was true. Yeah, it was. Hold on one second.
>> Taylor: I'm rethinking my thoughts about the Carnival cruise while far. This is why maybe I don't want to be in a Carnival cruise. I don't want to be cruise people for that long. You know, if I could be, like, people I know maybe on, like, a nice yacht, then maybe I would do it for that long. But then it would definitely be a recipe for disaster.
>> Farz: Sorry the dogs were causing ruckus out there.
>> Taylor: You're cool. I chatted about boats.
>> Farz: I'll find out what you said while I'm editing.
>> Taylor: Great.
Hieronymus and Arion plot to mutiny against Dutch commander
>> Farz: So those are two main characters of the story. But the main, main character, the guy that I find the most interesting and kooky and out of his mind is this guy named Hieronymus. Cornelius. Hieronymus was an apothecary, which basically was the cross section between being a witch doctor and a pharmacist.
>> Taylor: I love that, John. Yeah. I love in a movie when they open up a. Like, a doctor's thing and there's a bunch of bottles in it.
>> Farz: I know, but it seems like I. I get.
>> Taylor: No, they're all lithium. I know, I know.
>> Farz: They're good drugging. Like.
>> Taylor: Yeah, Like, I have opium and lithium and. Yeah, that's it. Yeah, that's it. Maybe a leech.
>> Farz: They had, like a 50. 50 reputation of some people thinking they're like, kind of like doctors. People bypass doctors because it's cheaper to go to an apothecary. And so some people thought they're legit, but I would imagine most people who were, like, in upper classes would think they're just insane charlatans. But, like, is you gonna afford to go to a real doctor? Although the doctors.
>> Taylor: What is a real doctor?
>> Farz: Yeah, exactly.
>> Taylor: I feel like I'd rather have someone give me a bunch of drugs than, like, cut me open in 1600.
>> Farz: Oh, God, you know, so many infections.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: So what happened to Hieronymus was that he had a son. Him and his wife had a son. They handed the baby over to a wet nurse for a couple of months and the kid came back and died of syphilis. So basically this is what, like, destroyed Hieronymus's career as, like, an apothecary and apparently his family life, because I guess, like, in those times, like, having syphilis was considered so deplorable that, like, you were excommunicated from the world, basically. Iran is one of this, like, campaign to say that the nurse gave the kid. He was more upset about the syphilis than he was about the kid dying. Basically just went around telling everyone that the nurse gave the kid syphilis. Before I can gather, you can't get syphilis that way.
>> Taylor: You can't.
>> Farz: Yeah. So like. So it's like it has to come from the mom. Like, the mom had to have given it. And so because of that, it destroyed the marriage. It was a whole scandal. It ruined their lives, basically.
>> Taylor: That's awful.
>> Farz: So Ronnie is, at this point, he's financially destitute and his marriage is pretty much over. And he did what anybody would do. He just skipped down. He just left. He was like, I'm done. We're going to go somewhere, start a new life elsewhere.
>> Taylor: I was going to say, yeah, like a guy, like, buys a boat. See you later.
>> Farz: Yeah, it's a modern. It's the modern equivalent. I'm going out for cigarettes. He signs up with the Dutch East India Company to work on their ships and was given a commission to do so on the Batavia. So that's how he kind of comes into this whole situation and causes a huge mess. Hieronymus and Arion bonded while they were on the ship, given a shared mutual hatred of Commander Francisco Ariane for reasons that we described. And I actually couldn't figure out why Hieronymus hated him. I think just seemed like one of those people who's just like, very, very difficult to be around. Like a very challenging person who just didn't like anybody so they hatch up a plan for a mutiny. They're saying, like, hey, like, let's. The ship is chock full of silver and gold. Let's take it over. We can sail off, start new lives. You know, be rich and do our own thing. Basically, that's the plan. And our plan was, like, super simple, like, really dumb, but very simple. The plan was they were going to sexually assault a female passenger. And then when the commander punished the crew for the assault, they'd all see how unreasonable the commander was, and it would help instigate a revolt against them, against him.
>> Taylor: Ew.
>> Farz: That's the plan.
>> Taylor: That's a terrible plan. Why do you have to do that?
>> Farz: Well, it didn't work anyways.
>> Taylor: I mean, yo. Continue.
On June 4, 1629, the Batavia ran aground on Australia
>> Farz: So what happened was this. This passenger couldn't identify the attackers. And under Dutch law at the time, you needed either a confession and eyewitness or physical evidence, which he couldn't ascertain on his own. It's now widely believed, and you'll find out later on, that others back then would agree, that, like, his lack of punishment for all this kind of led to the mutineers, like, being emboldened and see him as, like, a weak leader.
>> Taylor: Because he didn't punish anyone.
>> Farz: Yeah, he didn't punish.
>> Taylor: Like, he could have just, like, picked a guy and been like, this is an example.
>> Farz: He thought it could have been that Ariane guy, the second in command. But it was also, like, seen as these guys all know I hate him. So if I do something I'm wrong, then I just look like I'm being retributive. Right. That was the idea. So on. So nothing happened in that situation. On June 4, 1629, the Batavia ran aground on the west coast of Australia. So this was apparently like a big deal with that Bauer route that I mentioned earlier, because if you don't cut north. Exactly the right.
>> Taylor: Right. They missed their turn.
>> Farz: Yeah, you run, you're going to run straight into, like, the shallow islands surrounding Australia. Some actually think Ariane is the one that did this. That, like, he deliberately didn't turn the wheel in time because of the aforementioned hatred for the captain, for the commander. So regardless, the ship had become useless and was run aground. And some 280 people were ferried off on these longboats they had off the Batavia to a nearby island, which we now know as beacon Island. About 40 people drowned when the collision occurred.
>> Taylor: Oh, no.
>> Farz: So I, you know, you say oh, no, but also, I don't think life mattered back then.
>> Taylor: Life always mattered, but it mattered differently. But also, I don't know if maybe because of what's about to happen that like, that's for the best also.
>> Farz: Yeah, maybe.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: I mean, the guy's kid died of syphilis and all he did was say that his wife didn't give the kids. Like, I don't know if they really care that much. But still, I mean, he had, he.
>> Taylor: Had a nervous breakdown and left, right?
>> Farz: Yeah. Could be as simple as that.
>> Taylor: He drank every. He probably has syphilis and. Which, you know, makes you crazy. Oh, my God.
>> Farz: I didn't connect those dots. He might have literally had syphilis and gone crazy. Yeah, that's so much.
>> Taylor: We've learned that a million times. Yeah, absolutely.
>> Farz: Yeah, that, that probably. Yeah, that, that, that could do it. Okay, that explains a lot, actually.
So 280 people were ferried off Batavia to Beacon Island
So we're back to 280 people being ferried off the Batavia to Beacon Island. There was. There was like a small water source on Beacon island, not a ton. There was waterfowl, there were sea lions. They had some stuff to eat. But it wasn't like great for holding 280 people. It wasn't made for that.
>> Taylor: A lot of people.
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: Yeah. And I'm assuming you said those women are the kids too.
>> Farz: There are, there are kids also. Again, are people having kids on this boat in the two months? So it's like walking around the ocean, I think.
>> Taylor: Yes.
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: Honestly, if they're doing.
>> Farz: On the wagon trail, they're probably doing it here.
>> Taylor: You just always are like, what are you supposed to do?
>> Farz: Yeah, that's terrible. So the Commander Francisco, he, along with ariane and about 40 other men, decided to attempt the voyage north to Jakarta and one of the auxiliary boats. And so that's what they did. They're like, only choice because at this point, like, Australia's nothing. Like, nobody knows anything about Australia. Like, they know it's inhabited, but A, it's sparsely inhabited because Australia's huge.
>> Taylor: Sparsely inhabited.
>> Farz: Yeah. And I mean, it's sparsely inhabited now too, but like back then it must have been incredibly sparsely inhabited. And also, like, they're quite concentrated, like very like in places you want to be, not like on these outer edge islands that nobody would ever visit or want to go to.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
So our story is going to diverge here. We have a group who left to find aid on in Jakarta
>> Farz: So our story is going to diverge here. So we're gonna have two groups. We have a group who was left to find aid on in Jakarta and the group that was left behind. So really quick, I'll run through the story. The first part of the divergence of the people that left to go to Jakarta, because that's a quick one. They made it. So they Great sailed for 33 days and they made it to Jakarta. And the commander was given a ship called the Sardau Sadom to go back and rescue the others. It took him another month to sail back to where the Batavia had been shipwrecked and then like another month to actually find the island where the survivors were. So like think about it as like a probably three month window of time from when they were shipwrecked to when the Sardam comes back to rescue people. The more interesting part is the survivors. So when the commander left the attempted crossing the Indian Ocean it was deemed like pretty dangerous. And so he didn't. He only took like the strongest men with him basically. And so in total approximately 180 people were left on the island, about 20 of which were women and a bunch of men who were either weak, sick or some variation thereof. That's who was kind of left left on the island. Just by virtue. Like I can't fathom how this guy did it other than just pure confidence. He managed to become the leader of this group. Now that we have determined he probably had syphilis addled brain. Like I have no idea how you're immediately unless you're that confident.
>> Taylor: I think, I think yes. I think you have to be like, hey, be like a personality. I don't know, you know? Yeah, like I'm sure there were much more competent people. Especially like sure they're more competent women, but they couldn't be in charge, you know.
>> Farz: Yeah, of course. So he becomes the leader and his plan was that he would attempt to take over any vessel that attempted to help them and then use that vessel to retrieve all the gold and silver from the Batavia and set sail and establish a new kingdom for himself again. Now you told, you said the syphilis, you went. This all sounds like a syphilis.
>> Taylor: Adult brain, 100% can't just. Yes. Like you're not thinking straight if that's your plan.
>> Farz: So here's the thing, here's. I looked this up. This actually has sort of worked before when so and Nassau Islands in the Bahamas was basically this. That was like a waypoint for all these pirates that would come and they basically created their own de facto state there. Then there was a kingdom established in patagonia in the 1860s that came about just like this where somebody mutinied, stole the boat, stole the gold and just left. All right, I'm wrong and I think the bounty, bounty mutineers did this some like, almost like, they almost did this. And then, like, eventually were found and killed.
>> Taylor: But, like, they lived for a while.
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: But they weren't, like. They weren't, like, trading with other countries.
>> Farz: No.
>> Taylor: You know, they wouldn't have, like, Kingdom, I think, is a big word.
>> Farz: Yeah. Nobody got that far. Nobody got that far. There's still time. There's a whole time for somebody.
>> Taylor: What do I know? So I've got my money into silver.
>> Farz: Yeah, we're heading that way. So Hieronymus then made sure that all the weapons and food were under his control. And that his biggest obstacle to this plan, a guy named Weeby Hayes, along with 20 soldiers that he led, were neutralized by just sending them to another island. He was like, hey, our water sources are low. There's an island five miles that way. Take one of the s***** boats we have, go over there and see if you can find food. If you can set up smoke signals, and we'll come over there.
>> Taylor: Oh. But he was like, I want you to leave because you would, like, be a competition because.
>> Farz: Yeah, because he was like, you might actually stand up to me. That's basically what he was thinking.
>> Taylor: What can you. Can we see the Batavia from our house? And we know it hasn't sank.
>> Farz: It hasn't sunk yet. I know that it sank after the gold was retrieved because we're going to talk about that piece as well. And parts of it have been. I mean, it then sunk, obviously. And parts of it have been brought up by. I think it's Western Australia and they're on museum and showing display. Whatever.
>> Taylor: Wait, real quick. I'm sorry. You know our friend Lindsay from our last job?
>> Farz: Yes.
>> Taylor: She's currently in Cairo right now. And she was posting pictures of, like, King Tuts face mask and the pyramids. And I was losing my mind this morning.
>> Farz: That's very cool. I saw this museum. I knew that she was on a flight to Doha, and I thought she was just gonna stop in Qatar and call it a day. But I didn't know she went all the way to Egypt.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: That's cool.
>> Taylor: Yeah. She's a museum, and I got jealous of her.
>> Farz: I am gonna go to an Egyptian VR thing in December that's being done here in Austin where you can be part of, like, the Pharaohs and. Yeah. Excited about that. So you. You named it. Exactly. Right.
Hieronymus wanted to reduce population of island to about 45
The reason why he sent this guy on this mission was he was like, these guys can stand up to me. They can actually put up a fight. Let's send them over there. They'll Figure out there's no water over there, they'll die. We'll be rid of them. It'll be great. That's his idea. And like this basically just like turned into Lord of the Flies. Like immediately to control descent. If he suspected anyone was getting unruly or was kind of starting to get the confidence to stand up to him, he would come up with some crime they committed, some trumped up charge to get them to get everybody behind killing this person essentially.
>> Taylor: Right. Not even punishing them. Killing them.
>> Farz: Killing them. Yeah, yeah. Actually it's more than or the flies now. I think about it. Later, as the days dragged on and food supplies dwindled, he, he would find reasons to kill people just to preserve resources. His goal was to drop the population of the island to about 45 from the 60 or so who remained after Haz. His men went to the other island. So you got 160s. Like we got to get this down to a solid 45.
>> Taylor: That's a lot of people to kill.
>> Farz: Yeah, yeah. Again, bloodiest massacre ever.
>> Taylor: Wow.
>> Farz: For women and children or the sick and weak survivors, he just typically drown him. Like that was basically the, the tactic there. For able bodied men. They would generally wait until they were asleep or find ways to kind of surprise them and slit their throats with knives. That was the way of going about it.
>> Taylor: I can only imagine that he had like. Did he kill all the women?
>> Farz: No, he actually. So the other part of this was he started like a kind of like they were basically sex slaves.
>> Taylor: Exactly. That's what I was thinking. I was like, you can't start a kingdom without women. But you. But you need women to have babies and. Yes. Thank you. That's what I thought. Gross. Yeah, gross.
>> Farz: I assume he just killed the ones that like stood up to him.
>> Taylor: Yeah. But had other diseases besides syphilis.
>> Farz: Yes.
>> Taylor: We're a syphilis kingdom, so you can't really have anything else.
>> Farz: I mean, I don't know if one of the women also had syphilis and then thought she was the king of the island, then maybe it could turn into a fun rom com.
>> Taylor: I don't feel like I have enough stories of women losing their s*** because they have syphilis. Like we know like you know Van Gogh and all these people. But like, I don't know about the ladies. They usually just die.
>> Farz: Yeah, that is weird. You're right. I don't know any of them.
>> Taylor: Well, you deserve to go crazy. Only old timey ladies with syphilis.
>> Farz: Maybe we just don't know the stories, they have to be.
>> Taylor: I know, I know. We just don't.
>> Farz: And then the last way that they would rid themselves of people was they would either just club them to death with stones or they would shove them off cliffs or force them into the water where there was like, shallow coral reefs. Because they know they just get just beaten up and killed and drowned. Yeah, it's pretty harsh.
>> Taylor: They're all terrible. Yeah.
>> Farz: All of them. Yeah. Eventually that group that we be Hayes led, actually, they did find water. And they were putting up smoke signals, which is what Hieronymus asked them to do, saying, like, there's water here. Y' all should come over here. And obviously they didn't. Nobody, nobody did that. But it was enough of a clue to folks. There was people elsewhere that when some weird stuff was happening every morning you woke up and one last person was there and, like, right. You know, like, some people.
>> Taylor: Was there water there?
>> Farz: There was a little bit of water there. They were getting to the point when it was running out, but there was some water. And then a bunch of these folks, realizing that they were like, unwittingly in this death cult, just managed to escape the island and make the trek over the five miles south to the other island that Hayes team were on.
>> Taylor: Nice.
>> Farz: So they alerted them to what was going on and this group starts realizing, oh, this is going to nuts. And also their soldiers, like, it's probably more like, it's like, okay, so we. We kill these guys. Like, there's no. There's no panic, really. It didn't seem like there was any panicked alarms or anything. All they did was they started building weapons and they would set up a night watch to make sure that these guys weren't ever going to come over and, like, surprise them. That was basically the idea. Hieronymus again, now that you pointed out in his syphilis, Al Brain decides to go over to the other island with a few other men loyal to him and see if he can kind of like talk his way into, like, this group falling under his control, which is like, kind of crazy.
>> Taylor: And it hasn't been that long. It's been like a month.
>> Farz: It's.
Hayes's men take Hieronymus captive and the others escape
No, we are. We are at like, we're really close to month three.
>> Taylor: Okay.
>> Farz: We're really close to month.
>> Taylor: Not that long for all of us. A lot to happen.
>> Farz: Yeah. So that obviously didn't work. I keep thinking, like, how funny it would be if someone was like, trying to, like, sneak up to SEAL Team 6 and like, hey, guys, listen, y' all want to join My cult, like, it's like she get shot in the head immediately, get out of here.
>> Taylor: Get out of here, you nerd. Not tall enough.
>> Farz: She g throw rocks at you.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: So, yeah, that filled. Hayes's men take Hieronymus captive and the others who are with him escape and go back to the main island and go to the second in command for Hieronymus's men, who must have been an absolute genius, probably because he attempts another siege on Hayes's island. And while all this is going on, their original commander, Francisco, he has arrived in the Sardam and everyone realizes he's here and he's like, race. They're. They're beelining it to the ship. They're all trying to get to the ship because they realize, like, there's infantry men there, there's soldiers there.
>> Taylor: Right? Like he did it. Like, the help arrived.
>> Farz: The help arrived. Yeah, but they have to like, somebody. If you're Hieronymous, you want to be the first to go over there and say, hey, these Haze guys are nuts. They're killing everyone on the island. If you're the Hayes guy, this guy Hieronymus is nuts. They're killing everyone on the island. So eventually Hayes makes it. Hayes and his men make it to the ship, they tell Commander Francisco what's going on, and a mini battle ensues with Hieronymus's men and like the overwhelming force of the fleet that's on the Sardam, and they defeat him, obviously. Francisco decides to hold a mini trial right there and then on the island. He's like, I don't need to take. If we're just gonna kill all these guys anyways. Like, what's the point of wasting the food and the space on the ship? Let's just like figure it out right now.
>> Taylor: Totally.
>> Farz: So they hold the mini trial and Haramis is obviously found guilty. And everybody really, really dislikes Hieronymus at this point. His hands are chopped off and then he is hung. So he went kind of a bad way. And then others who helped Ronimous with the endeavor were just kind of dropped off in Australia and were like, good. Like, just figure it out yourself. I'm not taking you back with me. And then others were taken back to Jakarta for trial, of which five were hung in Jakarta and the others were. I don't know what the legal system was, but it was like, just like make these guys like die of torture, basically. Because when the. When not the Batavia, when the Sardon then went back to the Netherlands, a bunch of Them were just strapped to the keel of the ship. Yeah. So there was, like, riding. I mean, I don't even know what your body looks like after that. I imagine it's just. There's nothing left.
>> Taylor: I can't even imagine anything's left. Yeah, it's like, empty. Like, remember? I don't remember. But, you know, you always hear, like, you get punished by, like, being taken by a rope underneath the ship and like, scraped it on the barnacles and pulled back up.
>> Farz: That's this. I think the term is called keel sighting. That's literally what it was. Yeah, yeah. You're strapped to the side. Yeah. And then Ariane, for all of his terrible actions, was tortured, but he did not confess to anything and nobody really knows what happened to him. The only assumption I was able to conclude from this that it just died in prison and nobody cared enough to like, alert anyone that he's dead. Francisco, the commander, again, he was seen as a weak leader like they referenced back to that sexual assault situation. Like you. These guys felt him like something really horrible happening. He did nothing. And like, that's probably why they thought they could just stand up to you because you seem like a pushover. Right. He ended up. But also, I kind of feel like he redeemed himself because he, like, let arrest commission.
>> Taylor: No, it's cool that he did it. Like, I think he probably had, like, you know, financial reasons for finding it and doing all this stuff. Wait, who got the. Wait, did he come back and get all the gold and silver?
>> Farz: He got most of the gold and silver, yeah.
>> Taylor: Yeah. Because I feel like, I mean, yes, this is his job to do that. And, like, so it's good that he did, but also, that seems hard. Well, it is cool they did that. He.
>> Farz: He was punished.
Only 122 people out of 332 pastures on board survived the Batavia
He had all of his financial assets seized. He basically died. Kind of like, who cares? Kind of a character in history. He actually died like a year later. Like, he. Yeah, didn't. Didn't even make that long. And that's basically it. The Batavia became the deadliest muni in human history. Only 122 people out of the original 332 pastures on board survived. And of those, I think the count is somewhere around seven or so were executed. So 115 out of 332 is what it ended up being.
What was the weather like on Beacon Island in the Indian Ocean
>> Taylor: What was the weather like? Was it hot or cold? Hot.
>> Farz: I don't know. I didn't. I didn't look that up. Western Australia.
>> Taylor: My mood changes so much depending on the weather.
>> Farz: I assume that if you're On. I think it's the worst of both worlds. I think if you're on an island in the middle of the Indian Ocean, it is probably blisteringly hot during the day and then incredibly cold at night.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: Because the island, you can look it up. Beacon island, you can look it up now. Like it's, it's not big. It's like.
>> Taylor: Right.
>> Farz: It's a very small, like it's. If you're picturing like a huge rainforest. It's not that.
>> Taylor: No, I'm picturing like one palm tree. Oh, there's nothing on this island.
>> Farz: Yeah, there's nothing wrong. Yeah. I have no idea. I don't know if it looked like that when they were there, but like right now there's nothing there.
>> Taylor: It's very small. Yeah, yeah.
>> Farz: Rough going.
>> Taylor: Rough going. I mean. Yeah, the whole thing is rough. Even if it went perfectly well, it wouldn't be fun.
>> Farz: You mean if they actually made it there without shipwrecking. Yeah, yeah, yeah. The whole thing sounds horrible.
>> Taylor: It's still not fun.
>> Farz: I also read that like the East India or the Dutch East India Company also was. Had like slave ships. So like they were running slaves back and forth too. And I was like, man, as bad as it is anyways, how much worse?
>> Taylor: I can't. I mean, just like, you know, learning. When you learn all of that when you're a kid, hopefully, you know, you learn all that and just like, just see it's, it's incomprehensible how horrible that must have been, you know?
>> Farz: Yeah, yeah. I don't think this one, I don't think Batavia did, but if they did, I would imagine the 40 that drowned for them.
>> Taylor: Yeah, yeah. Well, like the, the Bounty when they had their mutiny, remember they were taking that breadfruit from one place to another to feed all the enslaved people in the Caribbean. Like that was their like goal was to get that like easy to cultivate fruit over there. And then also later, later in my life last Christmas when I was in Puerto Rico, there was breadfruit. And I was telling my in laws that that's why it's there. Is it? Because they took it to the Caribbean for a cheap food to feed, to lay people.
>> Farz: Did you eat it?
>> Taylor: I don't remember. I think I did.
>> Farz: Bread, fruit, I don't even know.
>> Taylor: It's just like a big like, remember. You don't remember? I don't know why I keep saying that. You know how like jackfruit can taste like pulled pork? Have you ever done that?
>> Farz: No.
>> Taylor: There's like a way to cook, like jackfruit, which is like a sweeter. It looks like a coconut kind of, but it's, like, sweeter. And you can, like. You can cook it so it tastes just like. Pulled pork is wild.
>> Farz: Really? Have you done that?
>> Taylor: I haven't done it myself, but I've eaten it, like, wild by the people, stuff like that.
>> Farz: Why does it Impossible meat make a jackfruit?
>> Taylor: I know people. You get some. We can go. I don't want to Trader Joe's, but it was a little too smoky for me. But, you know. All right. But the texture is the same.
>> Farz: Lesson learned.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: I was really talking about making pulled pork for dinner tonight.
>> Taylor: I love pulled pork. I do it in the. I do it in the crock pot with a can of root beer. Do you do that?
>> Farz: Yeah. Well, Dr. Pepper. Same thing. Yeah. With the Hawaiian rules. Right. Can't do it. So that's my story.
And I went first today, which I know is going to throw a lot of for loop
And I went first today, which I know is going to throw a lot of for loop. And I just hope you all don't write us too many letters of angst.
>> Taylor: So many emails. That's a card to keep up.
>> Farz: It's tough stuff. Yeah, but. But that's my life. That's what we do. So cool.
Taylor: I'm probably gonna send you the Oriental Trading catalog as well
What do you got for us, Taylor?
>> Taylor: I just want to tell you that Morgan did get all of her bat mitzvah decorations from Oriental Trading. And I said, literally, of course you did. And then her and I both. Oh, I. I did. Because she sent me the link to get the catalog. So there's a. There's three options. There's like a religion option of the catalog. There's seasonal, and then there's school. So I got the seasonal one, so maybe I'll get one, like, once a quarter for whatever holiday is coming up. And I also have. I was like, what has stopped me from sending this to Farce's house? I'm probably gonna send you the Oriental Trading catalog as well.
>> Farz: Your. Your content you produced for that episode with the Oriental stuff. It was. It was. It was incredible.
>> Taylor: Thank you.
>> Farz: Definitely know your stuff.
>> Taylor: I put that background of junk in the back of it. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you. Yeah, that's. That's it. But, yeah, I just wanted to say to people, please send us emails. Let us know what you want to do to hear from us. We take requests, so doomtefellpodmail.com please do, like, reviews, good reviews on all. Wherever you listen. That's also really cool if you did that. And we're on socials at doomed to Feel bad.
>> Farz: Let us know what you think. Send us ideas. But send us ideas that are, like, researchable. Like, I've tried doing Freedom of Information act requests before, and it is. It is a whole process.
>> Taylor: I did get. Oh, so I did buy. Wait, did I share this? I did get. I did the downer party a while ago, remember? Oh, I showed you my Lindbergh crime book that I bought at the library for a dollar. But I also finally bought a physical copy of the Indifferent Stars Above. I'm showing because I've read it twice via the library and I think listened to it twice. But I was like, oh, I should also have this because, like, what if one of my children want to do a report on the dinner party?
>> Farz: I think I have that book too, because that was like. That was the highest. I've never heard them. This is the last podcast on the left. I never heard them gush about a book the way they gushed about that one.
>> Taylor: It's great. I listened to it. Yeah, I listened to it twice. I mean. Yeah, it's really, really good. Oh, what is? Pictures. Poor people.
>> Farz: Do you remember the fight with the.
>> Taylor: Grizzly bear in the Donner Party in.
>> Farz: In the different stars?
>> Taylor: I don't know.
>> Farz: They referenced that. The different stars. There is a vignette of a grizzly bear fight where someone killed the grizzly bear, like with their bare hands. It's like crazy. I can't. I. I don't recall it myself. If I. Maybe you might recall, but if not, it's fine. I can read it. I.
>> Taylor: It's funny. Whenever I'm cold. Wait, I'm sure to this that I. My skill for cold is like, I'm normal cold, I'm chilly, whatever. But when I'm super cold, I'm revenant cold.
>> Farz: Oh, yeah.
>> Taylor: And I just imagine myself inside of a bear. Like Leonardo DiCaprio.
>> Farz: Yeah. Great movie.
>> Taylor: Yeah. Cool. Thank you. That's fun.
Happy Thanksgiving, everyone. Enjoy time with your family. Have a great time
>> Farz: We will do another release. We're not taking a break for the holidays, so there will be another release next week as well. And we will be checking our emails, so let us know.
>> Taylor: And yeah. Happy Thanksgiving. Yeah. Yeah. Happy Thanksgiving, everyone. Have a great time.
>> Farz: Yeah. Enjoy time with your family.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: Sweet. While. Go ahead and cut it off there. It.