Let's talk about the 3rd biggest man-made explosion ever (only eclipsed by the nuclear bombs). In 1917, ships were zooming back and forth between North America and Europe - bringing men (boys), supplies, ammunition, you name it, to the efforts of WWI. In December, a French ship called the SS Mont-Blanc is filled to the brim with the most explosives imaginable, when they get to Halifax and an empty Norwegian ship, the Imo, sails on the wrong side of the harbor. The slow (like 6mph) collision has insane consequences you have to hear to believe!
Let's talk about the 3rd biggest man-made explosion ever (only eclipsed by the nuclear bombs). In 1917, ships were zooming back and forth between North America and Europe - bringing men (boys), supplies, ammunition, you name it, to the efforts of WWI.
In December, a French ship called the SS Mont-Blanc is filled to the brim with the most explosives imaginable, when they get to Halifax and an empty Norwegian ship, the Imo, sails on the wrong side of the harbor. The slow (like 6mph) collision has insane consequences you have to hear to believe!
Taylor: Happy Sunday, fellow Americans. How are you doing
>> Taylor: In the matter of the people of the State of California vs. Orenthal James Simpson, case number BA096. And so, my fellow Americans.
>> Farz: Boom. We are live and we are recording. Taylor, happy Sunday. How are you?
>> Taylor: Good, good. I just had to open up a can of. This is liquid death root beer. I think it's gonna be gross. I'm gonna try it live on air.
>> Farz: I didn't know they did anything but water. Interesting.
>> Taylor: It's kind of gross. It's like watered down root beer.
>> Farz: I mean, I'll be honest, I think root beer is kind of gross in general.
>> Taylor: You do, do you?
>> Farz: Which, which is weird because I think Dr. Pepper is good, but I think Dr. Pepper is loving this root beer with different, you know.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: Packaging.
>> Taylor: No, it's gross. I love a. I love a root beer float. I would have a root beer float for every meal. They're so. I just love them.
>> Farz: Yeah, that was, that was a go to.
>> Taylor: What else? Oh, I'm printing these beautiful corners for another corner of my house. So like half the wall like has a beautiful lotus on it. I'll. I'll put, I'll put I this on the Internet.
>> Farz: That is very yoga of you. Like you don't even know how yogi you are, but that's very yoga.
>> Taylor: I know, I know. Well, it's a lotus, so. Yes. Yeah. So 3D printing, hanging out. It's the weekend. We went to our friend's pool yesterday. I think we're going to go see he man later.
>> Farz: Oh, that'll be good. That'll be fun. That's exciting.
>> Taylor: Yeah. Yeah. How about you? How's your weekend?
>> Farz: It was pretty good. It was pretty good. I, I have some travels coming up. I'm be going to Houston next weekend and so I wanted to spend this weekend getting life back in order. You know, during the week it's hard to kind of get. Build the motivation to do stuff around the house. And so that was kind of the name of the game this weekend because otherwise I'd have to kick it out for another two, three weeks. So that was it. But the weather here has been phenomenal. It's been incredible. Like it's. Yeah, it's beautiful. I spent a lot of time cleaning the pool out in the back pool, slash the feeding tank for cows. That's what I call my pool. So. Yeah, no, it was productive.
>> Taylor: That's good. Miles, my, my son Miles was home the other day. He was sick. He goes, mom, is it what you do all day? Just walk around the house picking stuff up and I was like, yes, because I'm the one in this house that goes from room to room and brings things to where they belong. If I'm in a room and there's dishes in it, I'm gonna take them with me to the kitchen. If I'm in a room and there's toys in it, I'm gonna bring it with me to your room. Like, I don't know why you don't understand. This.
>> Farz: Is Juan slacking?
>> Taylor: No, Juan does a great job. But, like, I have to. I do it all day long just because I'm just, like, picking up the kids stuff and it's like, everywhere, you know, Never ends. Never.
>> Farz: Sure. Cool.
Doomed to Fail brings you historical disasters and failures
Would you want to introduce us?
>> Taylor: Yes. Hello. Welcome to Doomed to Fail. We bring you historical disasters and failures. And I am Taylor, joined by Fars. I have a disaster, of course, to tell you about it. It's a suggestion from Nadine, who is one of our listeners up in Canada. And I have two pop culture references that I think of when I think of this. And you might guess if we're to the second one, but the first one is Thomas Lennon, the comedian. I thought he was Canadian until like an hour ago when I was writing this. But, you know, I'm talking about. He's a guy from Reno911 in the state.
>> Farz: I can picture him.
>> Taylor: You can picture him. He's great.
>> Farz: But he's the one with the short shorts.
>> Taylor: Yes. Yeah.
>> Farz: Okay.
>> Taylor: Yeah. And like, the boots, the new boot. Groovin.
>> Farz: Right?
>> Taylor: And. But he does, like, this bit on. I don't know what. He was on a show, but he talks about this disaster, and it's like a minute and 16 where he's talking about it, but he's so excited. He talks. He starts, like, kind of hunched, telling you the story, and then in within the minute, he's sitting on the ground, like, yelling because it's so interesting. And he's like, it's so exciting. So if after this is over, Google that. But he's from Oak Park, Illinois, which actually ties back to our story in a way. And it's where my grandpa lived, so. But anyway, so he does it. But then also this disaster is the nickname of Rob Lowe's character in Super Troopers 2. Do you see the Super Troopers? True, too.
>> Farz: I don't think I saw part two.
>> Taylor: It's better than original.
>> Farz: I. Wait, it's better than Super Troopers?
>> Taylor: Yes.
>> Farz: Wow. Okay. You know what it is, is because after I saw that camp one they did or the beach one they did, I was like, I I'm gonna stop.
>> Taylor: Oh, I like. I like that one. There are worse ones than. What was.
>> Farz: What was Rob Lowe's name in that?
>> Taylor: His hockey. His hockey nickname was this disaster. It's the Halifax Explosion.
>> Farz: Ooh, okay. Got it.
>> Taylor: And he goes, I'm the Halifax Explosion. But, like, not the bad one. It's just, like, really funny because you're like, that's a really insensitive nickname. But, you know, you'll learn about it and I'll tell you more about it,
>> Farz: but I don't actually know about this one.
>> Taylor: Nice.
>> Farz: So, yes, you caught me.
>> Taylor: A lot to tell you. Then I read a book called the Great Halifax Explosion, a World War I story of treachery, Tragedy and Extraordinary Heroism by John U. Bacon, which is really good. And the Halifax Explosion is the third biggest man made explosion in human history. The first being Hiroshima, the second Nagasaki, and the third is the Halifax Explosion.
>> Farz: Oh, oh, oh, you know what? Okay, so I. For some reason, I have no idea, I was like, home alone, and I just was bored and I was like, I want to rewatch Oppenheimer, because I only saw it once, that theater, and I was kind of like, whatever, in and out of it mentally, but I was at the time to focus on it. So I actually bought or rented it on Amazon prime and I watched it like a few days ago. And they reference this explosion in the movie.
>> Taylor: Absolutely. So I actually did not put this in my outline, and I'm not. Wasn't going to mention it, but yes, because afterwards Oppenheimer and his group looked to Halifax to try to understand what the damage would be to civilians and to buildings after an explosion of this size. Because it's the biggest. It was the biggest explosion that they could reference.
>> Farz: Yep, yep, yep. Okay, Well, I have heard of it.
>> Taylor: Well, that's where you may have heard of it if you hadn't. It is December 6, 1917, and two ships are about to collide in the. In the Halifax harbor, and a lot of people are about to die.
The United States entered World War I on April 6, 1917
So some context and where we'll begin. Canada in 1917 is part of the British Empire, so it is very involved in World War I. Like, their boys are going over there, you know, all the time a lot. Most families have a son or a brother or someone who's. Who's. Who's going over to do the trench warfare. World War I, it's awful. They're coming back awful. The United States just entered World War I on April 6, 1917, when Congress declared war on Germany. For a lot of reasons, Wilson was The president. There's, you know, defending democracy or whatever. Another thing is the Zimmerman telegram, which I had not heard of, which was a telegram that the Germans sent to Mexico to say, if you fight with us against the United States, we will give you back Texas, New Mexico and Arizona. And, like, the Mexico probably wouldn't have done that. And, like, it probably wouldn't have happened, but we. The US Intercepted it and read it. And that made a lot of people really mad that they were, like, trying to make deals like this. Had you heard of that.
>> Farz: So Mexico never got it?
>> Taylor: No.
>> Farz: Okay. No, they wouldn't have done it.
>> Taylor: I don't think they.
>> Farz: Anyway, what on earth is the commonality there? At least there's a border that's being shared. Like, there's no commonality between those cultures.
>> Taylor: Yeah. So there's that. And then obviously, it's most. It's obviously about money, because that's what war is about. And German U boats are. Are just destroying everything that's sailing from the US To Europe, whether it's a passenger boat like the Lusitania, whether it's like, cargo ships, like, they need to. We need. The United States needs to make sure that their ship can get to Europe for trade. The next day, the day after the Halifax explosion, just coincidentally, the United States is going to officially declare war on Austria, Hungary. So there's, like, we're. It's about to get big. Canada and the United States have been at odds forever. So I feel like we've lived in a state of, like, relative peace between our two countries until recently, which I'm not even gonna talk about, but you know what I mean. But before the world wars, there was, like, a lot of animosity between Canada and the United States, obviously. Like, there's the Revolutionary War. Canada's still a part of the United Kingdom. There's the War of 1812. There's different allegiances during the Civil War and America ke threatening to take over Canada. Like, they would talk about it in Congress all the time, like we should. It's just like a natural inevitability that we take over Canada and so that. So they. They don't like each other. And a lot of the people in Canada are p***** at the United States for not joining the war earlier. So all sorts of stuff, like, between the two countries, like I said, a lot, A lot. A lot of Canadian boys are going to be sent over, and it's terrible. And then the United States will also, you know, start to do a draft and send their own people over, over to World War, essentially. But so all this is happening, all this context. It's World War I, and because of it's World War I, a lot of stuff is happening specifically in Halifax. So Halifax is all the way to the east, obviously, if they're shipping things from Halifax to. To Europe. But it is all the way to the east of Canada, and it is relatively south. So it's not the most southern part in Canada. But if you, like, had a ruler and drew a line from Halifax, like across North America, it is more south than, like, North Dakota, Montana, washing. It cuts through the bottom half of Maine. So it's not super north. It's more south than not. That makes sense.
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: So it is the. Depending on who you ask and who's doing the measuring, it is the second or third largest natural harbor in the world. The first two are in New Zealand and in Australia, like Sydney harbor in Australia. And Halifax is a harbor. So a harbor is a place that's, like, naturally protected for, like, defense and trade, where you can bring a ship in and then pull a ship out and do a lot of trading really easily within that spot. What makes Halifax a excellent natural harbor is that it's really deep. So even at low tide, it's 18 meters deep, so that, you know, big ships can go in and out, and it's inland, which is the key to a harbor. You need to be somewhere in where you can go safe. So a harbor isn't just like a beach. It's a place you can defend, create infrastructure. So if you're going to Halifax harbor, so you're coming, like, from Europe or up the coast of the United States, you get to Halifax harbor and you go into. It's a. It's not. It's not an island. It's connected to the rest of Canada, but it's, like, definitely pulled out from it by, like, a lot of water. And then the. You go past a little island called McNabb's island, and you go past that island into the Narrows, which is like a thin, like, narrow area into the harbor. It's like a thousand feet across. And then you go into Bedford Basin, which is a harbor itself. So some of describe it as like, it's like a wine bottle, which is like the way what you want a harbor to be, you know?
>> Farz: Yep.
>> Taylor: You know, you want to be able to get in there and. Yes, yes. You want to control who goes in and out, and then you want to be able to keep it. To keep it safe.
>> Farz: So because of this, it's like a straight Almost.
>> Taylor: Yeah. Yeah. And it's really, really important for. For a lot of wars, and especially this one fun other.
Halifax harbor was home to privateers during other wars
Just like one fun thing is that Halifax harbor was home to a lot of privateers during other wars, like the Revolutionary War and the War of 1812. Privateer is essentially a legal pirate, so that a lot of people who would just, like, go down the coast of the United States, ransack boats, sink them, and then bring their loot back up to Canada.
>> Farz: That's fun.
>> Taylor: Yeah, yeah. And then during World War I, especially during this time, neutral ships are required to stop in Halifax for inspection. So if a ship is coming from Europe for any reason, they need to stop by Halifax, go into the harbor, get inspected, and then they can go to the rest of North America. Whether that's up or down or whatever. The Halifax is the first stop. So it's very, very busy. So, because a lot of ships will go there to resupply, there's a lot of things going on there. There's a lot of people being added to Halifax. So, like, the population is growing, and then a lot of people are, like, in and out, obviously, because their boat will dock there for a week, and then they'll, you know, get. Get maintenance, get their cargo, whatever it is, and then leave. So a lot of that is happening in and out. It's also become a new practice in 1917 to sail back to Europe in a convoy. So you'll remember, like I just said a minute ago, like, you know, this, that U boats, German U boats, submarines are just destroying everything that they can find in. In the ocean that's crossing the ocean. So they don't care. They're, you know, they're sinking Lusitania. They're thinking like cargo ships. They're sinking neutral ships. And I feel like we learned this. I don't know if we were talking about the ocean or we were talking about space or submarines or whatever, but, like, how hard it is to find things in the ocean because the ocean's so big, you know? And, like, I feel like I remember saying that it's harder to find, like, a submarine in the ocean than it is to find a football in space because of, like, in, like, orbit of the Earth or something. Like, because of the technology and because of the technology. So there's so much stuff in the ocean that we can't see all the things. So U boats are going to shoot at whatever they find. So if you are in a group, in a convoy of other ships, you are safer because you can protect each other. Like, so they get like the same amount of casualties, the same amount of damage if you go all together or if you go one by one. So there isn't safety in being separate. There's safety in numbers. Sure makes sense. So they. So people are getting together in Halifax, convoying together to Europe. So a lot of people are sitting in the harbor waiting for their convoy and you have to have like similar speed, you know, similar like size to make the convoy safe as well later. So another interesting thing in Halifax's history is that Halifax is 700 nautical miles, which is 800 land miles, which I don't understand, but whatever from where the Titanic sank. So the first rescue ships came from Halifax and they came with like boats filled with like medical supplies in case they found anybody alive. They didn't know what they were going to find. They like medical supplies, like embalming fluid stuff to, you know what to do. When they got there to the site, there was like still stuff floating, you know, there's like tables and people like in the Titanic movie, you know, but still like that when they get there. And so they pulled a lot of the bodies and into, into their ships to bring them back, back to Halifax. And they would, I don't know how they know this, but I guess somehow you would know what class first people were in. So like third and second class people, they brought weights just to weigh them down and sea bury them. And then first class people, they would bring them onto the boat, embalm them and bring them back to be identified and buried.
>> Farz: So that's really, that's really grotesque.
>> Taylor: I know, I know, I'm going to talk about this later, but this is actually. There's a man who I'll mention at the end who was the first person to develop a way to catalog bodies, which was like the toe tag, you know, things like that and like writing down everything the person was wearing and like doing all these things to help identify bodies later. And that comes from this, the Titanic bodies that they picked up and brought back to halifax. And they. 150 bodies from the Titanic are buried in Halifax's Fairview Lawn Cemetery. Some of like the very richer people were sent back to their families, but a lot, most people were buried there. And there's a maritime museum that has a lot of the stuff that they pulled out of the water. It has like a full deck chair, like just stuff that they were able to pull out of the water wall before it actually sank. So that had just happened. That was a couple years ago when we're in 1917 but now it's December 1917, and I recommend reading the book that I mentioned, and I'll put it in the thing, because a lot of good stories about, like, individual people and families and, you know, what they lost and all those things. So there's a lot of, like, individual stories, but people are living their lives in Halifax. It's growing. Like I said, there' there's one school that teaches all grades. There are many churches. One church recently paid off their mortgage, and they had a celebration the weekend before this. There are native tribes that live in the area, specifically the Mi' Kmaq people. They have lived in the area for 13,000 years. And then in their language, they called Halifax the great harbor because it was, you know, still used as a harbor for, you know, thousands of years before this as well. They are trying to. There are people who are trying to get the mic back to move out of Halifax and that they're kind of in the middle of. Of a, you know, transition period with that. They're getting. They have smaller and smaller amount of land, and it's not very great, like, the way that they live, which I think is kind of obvious. There's a part of town called Africville, which is where the black people live, which is also pretty dilapidated and poor. They don't get a lot of social services. There's a lot of brothels and bars and things, because there's a lot of servicemen. They're, you know, coming in and out. So there's a lot going on. It's, like, really booming. Very, very active.
>> Farz: So how society figured out very, very early on, like, probably at the beginning of mankind, that when there's servicemen somewhere, the first thing is the brothel and bar.
>> Taylor: Yeah. Yep. I think. I think from the beginning of mankind is probably true of.
>> Farz: We don't change that much.
>> Taylor: Yeah, yeah, 100%.
The Halifax Explosion involves two ships, the SS Imo and the SS Mont Blanc
So the Halifax Explosion happens on December 6, 1917, and it involves two ships, the SS Imo and the SS Mont Blanc. The Imo, spelled I M O, is a merchant steamship. It was built in 1889. It's been a passenger ship, a livestock ship, a whaling ship. Had a few different names. In 1970, 17, a carry, it's. It's in the Halifax harbor. It is empty. It is owned by the Norwegians, and it has been, I don't know, asked to. Commissioned to carry relief supplies to German occupied Belgium. So it sailed from Europe to Halifax, and then in Halifax, it gets inspected, because everything needs to get inspected in Halifax. And then it has, like, a big, like, on the side of it is like a big. It's painted white on the side and it says Belgium Relief on it. So, like, you can see it's a relief ship and it's going to go down to the United States and get supplies and then go back to Belgium. So right now it's empty and it's sitting in Halifax. It was operated by the White Star Line, which I know you've talked about before. Also, like, another thing about Halifax that I forgot to add to my thing is the Cunard family is from Halifax of the Cunard Line, which is like a word you would have heard. It is captained by Captain Haakon from. With 39 men there. Again, Norwegian. The Emo was supposed to leave Halifax harbor the day before on the 5th, but it was delayed due to waiting on fuel. So it was going to leave the morning of the 6th. And the 6th is a Thursday, just like a regular middle of the weekday. The Mont Blanc is a French cargo steamship. It was built in England, but given, like, sold to the French. It was built in 1899. It was a bit slow, so it had to find a very specific convoy to get it from North America to Europe. So that was like, a part of its deal as well, is it was, like, slower than other ships. It's also slow because it's really, really heavy. And I'll tell you why in a second. I'll tell you right now. The Mont Blanc is absolutely full to the f****** brim with explosives. Like, the most explosives you could possibly fit in the ship, they fit in this ship. It was going from New York up to Halifax to get a convoy and then go over to Europe to help with the war. It was filled with tnt. We know what that is. Technically, it's a bomb. Pachyric acid, which is essentially highly explosive liquid that needs an insane heat to explode. So it's being sent to Europe to be used in. In missiles and in bombs and things like that. So it's like a really, really explosive liquid. It also has gun cotton, which is like gunpowder, but fabric. So it does, like, the same thing gunpowder does, but it's also, again, highly, highly explosive.
>> Farz: And I didn't know that was the thing.
>> Taylor: Me either. I learned, like, I was like, oh, okay, whatever, another thing to explode. So three very, very explosive things. And they did a h*** of a job getting it into the ship. Like, things barely moved in the cargo hold. They filled it as much as they could. They put pieces of plywood between them so nothing would move because, like, you're basically. It's a Bomb? Yeah, you know, it's like the biggest bomb you can imagine.
>> Farz: So you're being hunted by submarines.
>> Taylor: Yeah. So pretty much as scary as you could possibly be. So it's totally full, and then they decide to add barrels of benzoil gasoline to the. The top. To the. Just to the outside of the ship, just like, on the deck. And they don't even really tie it down. So, like, on top of everything else, there's barrels of gasoline all around the top of the ship. So it's just like explosives on top of explosives. Explosives on top of explosives. And the captain, his name is Amelia. Medic. He hadn't done this before. Like, hadn't ever had anything this. This dangerous before on his ship. So he's very nervous, and the crew is very, very nervous.
Mont Blanc leaves New York City on December 1 and arrives in Halifax on December 5
So one of the most harrowing parts of their journey actually starts in New York City, because they leave New York City and they. On December 1st, and they end up in Halifax on December 5th during the convoy. But when they're doing that, they're not protected by the convoy, and they have to stay, like, really close to the land. But it's also more like waves and more rocky the closer to the land they get. So they're just like, please don't explode before we get to a convoy. Basically, like, crossing their fingers. And they're excited when they get to
>> Farz: Halifax because the U boats, I presume, were not operating, like, off the US Or Canadian coast.
>> Taylor: You know, I think they were closer than I think that they could have been, but. But, yes, I think that you're right. Like, there's definite. Definitely, like, they were safer closer to land, but I don't. But they weren't, like, super safe, you know? You know what I mean? So they head up to Halifax and then some other just, like, notes about what's happening in Halifax right now. Ships with dangerous cargo are traditionally supposed to have a red flag on them just to be like, hey, take extra care around this ship. Don't, you know, don't do anything crazy. They had removed that rule, like, a couple months before this. And I think it's because they were just overwhelmed. There's just, like, so many ships coming in and out, and some of the rules that they had, like, they were more lax about them than others. Like, in one case, there's, like, you know, the guy that's, like, working on the island who's bringing people in and out. He's like 15, you know, like, it's not like they just have all hands on deck, but they're Getting lax in the rules. And they like the one so the emo, they were supposed to leave on the 5th and they didn't. And, like, the person who was supposed to tell everybody that this extra ship was in the harbor, like, didn't tell anybody because he was just busy. So there's a lot of, like, miscommunication and stuff that people don't know. But the. But the Mont Blanc gets up to Halifax and they are outside that for a night. And that's, like, actually the most dangerous part is to be outside of Halifax. Once they're in the harbor, there's actually also. And I guess maybe they were really worried about it because there are, like, big steel nets that go from, like, top to the bottom of the harbor to stop U boats from coming in.
>> Farz: No way.
>> Taylor: Yeah, because they think that they're going. Yeah, they think that they can get there, you know, so having the Mont Blanc outside of those nets feels more dangerous than having it inside the harbor. Because inside the harbor, there's no risk of the U boat shooting it.
>> Farz: Yeah, I didn't know that was a thing. You know, this is an educational one.
>> Taylor: Yeah, I know. So maybe that answers that question. Like, they were really, really worried about it being really close. Really close. So there's a job called harbor pilot, where your job is to get on boats that are coming into the harbor because you know the harbor so well. So the harbor pilot in this case, his name is Francis Mackey, and he asked, you know, the people in charge for some special protections for the Mont Blanc, but he was denied just because they were busy and, I don't know, like, they just didn't do it. So he is. He spends the night of the 5th on the Mont Blanc, and in the morning, they, like, lower the nets and he can go. Start going into the harbor. It's the morning now, December 6, 1917, and people are going to work. They're sitting at their homes. The way it also works is, like, a lot of the homes are up on a hill, and you can see the harbor. And some of these homes that are, like, brand new have, like, brand new beautiful bay windows where you would, like, sit in your kitchen and, like, drink your coffee, and you would look at the harbor, and there's, like, kids who, like, love doing it, and they count the boats and they have binoculars and, like, all these things so you can really see, like, what's going on there. So 7:30am and the Mount Blanc is headed in and the emo is headed out. They're going very, very slow. They're going like 6 miles per hour, like, as slow as you can possibly go. But the emojis is on the wrong side of the harbor. You're supposed to travel like we do in America, like, drive on the right side of the road when you are going forward at this time. Actually, Canada drove on the left side of the road, like the uk and they changed it, like, pretty late, like in like the late 19 somethings. But they. But the way that it works going into the. Through the narrows, like into the harbor, you're supposed to be on the right side of the road. Another thing that I learned that feels very overly complicated, but I feel like is helpful to know starboard, there's two sides of a ship. There's starboard and port. Starboard means right? Because in the word starboard, there are two Rs. That's a trick to remember it. And the word port, there's one R. So that's how you. That's how you remember.
>> Farz: I still have to visualize a bed
>> Taylor: when you do left and right.
>> Farz: No, I still have to. Sometimes I have to think about it when I'm in yoga. And they're like, yeah, take your left leg and you're, like, just drenched in sweat. And you're tired and you're, like, mentally exhausted. Like, which one's left? Okay. Yeah, that's right. It's that one.
>> Taylor: You're so funny. I never heard anyone call it a bed before. I just did, like, left and right.
>> Farz: Yeah. Our teacher was like, just make a bed with your hands, and that tells you which one's left and which one's right. And I was like, I'm gonna use this until I'm 42 years old.
>> Taylor: You are. That's adorable.
Emo coming in on wrong side of Mont Blanc because it's empty
So anyway, they're on. Supposed to be on the starboard side, which, you know, now means right, because it has two Rs in it. And the emo was anxious to leave. They had been. And so they fueled up on the wrong side of the harbor. So they were. They were like in the way to be on the left side of the. Of the path. But they got fueled up and they started to head out. And they're kind of going fast and they're passing other ships and like, kind of being a d*** about it in the harbor. And Mackie, the pilot sees the emo coming fast on the wrong side of the thing, and they do slow down. They see him on the wrong side. And Mackie does one whistle blast, which means, get out of my way. And the emo does two back that says, no, f*** you. I'm not moving. And then he does it again, and he does two back again. And they're like, no, we're not moving. So the emo will not move from their path for whatever reason. They're not going anywhere. They want the other ship to move, and they don't know what's on the Mont Blanc. But still, you shouldn't want to hit another ship. You know, you should still be careful. Like, whatever it is, you can still cause a fire, and, like, people can still die. But they're so. But they're coming in and they're on the wrong side and they're not moving. So the Mont Blanc turns off its thrusters and totally stops and, like, tries to slow down as much as possible. The emo finally gives three blasts, which means, like, I'll finally move. And they do a turn, but because they're empty, which they haven't. Not used to being empty, they're more buoyant, and they're, like, higher above the water. And the way that they turn, the front of the emo slices through the front of the Mont Blanc. And what they do is they've opened up, like, part of the deck that has, like, the benzoil in barrels, plus opening up to the cargo hold that has the rest of the stuff inside of it. And when the emo backs up the. When they're pulling their ship out of the Mont Blanc, sparks start flying, and then it's on fire.
>> Farz: Yeah. You know, feels very predictable.
>> Taylor: Yeah. So it's 8:45am and it's no explosion, it's just on fire. And the Mount Blanc cannot put out the fire because it cannot reach the fire extinguishers or, like, fire hose that goes into the water, because that's all in the front of the ship. In the front of the ship is on fire. So the people on the Mont Blanc are like, what do we do? We can't. We can't. There's nothing we can do. And now everyone from Halifax is watching. They're watching from their houses. They're getting closer. They're like, what's going on? There's a fire in the harbor. So they're coming in. The boat's on fire. And again, not a lot of people know what is on the Mont Blanc. But you know who do know is Mackie, who is the harbor pilot. And everyone on the Mont Blanc, they know what's on there. And so they f****** run. They run into their lifeboats, they jump on lifeboats, they get on the lifeboats, they paddle like maniacs. To shore, they do yell. There's about to be an explosion, but no one can hear them because there's just fire raging and everyone's panicking. And then also there's French. So they're yelling in French and they. They take their boats to the end of the end of the. To, like, the shore. They run up a hill and they hide in the woods, which is, like, not a good sign. People who are on the boat that you just hit, every single person leaves and, like, runs away. On their way up, they ran through the Mi' Kmaq village and they saw there's a story. I don't know how true it is, but they saw a woman with her baby and they couldn't communicate with her because of language. Barri, one of the. Of the sailors from the mountain block, takes the baby from her and starts running up the hill. So she chases after him. And those are the only two people that they saved.
>> Farz: Like, I mean, that's a good move
>> Taylor: to save the baby.
>> Farz: If you're trying to save someone but they can't understand you, you steal what's most valuable to them and then hope they just come after you.
>> Taylor: Yeah, yeah, it is a good move. And they did say the lady and her baby, but they didn't tell anybody else. They still haven't told anybody. Like, no one's been like a. There's no alarm bell that's like, this is not a regular ship. This is a ship that has, you know, 3,000 pounds of the most dangerous stuff you can think of on it. You know, they don't know that yet.
1600 people die from the explosion on the Mont Blanc
So meanwhile, the Mont Blanc is now a ghost ship. It is empty. There is no people on it. It is drifting into the harbor, and it is going to explode, you know, and again, no one knows. This explosion is going to be worse than they could ever have imagined because it's just a boat on fire. So people are coming down to look at it, coming down to help. There's fire boats coming in to, like, to try to get it off all the things. But at 9:04,35. So 35. 4 minutes, 35 seconds a.m. the Mount Blanc explodes instantly. 1600 people die from the explosion. So they die from the blast and the debris. The blast created a. Like a sound wave, like a. Just like a blast wave that had temperatures up to 5,000 degrees Celsius in it and was blasting out from the epicenter at 1,000 meters per second. So you just were there one second, the next second you weren't like, that's. It happened so fast.
>> Farz: Immediately vaporizing.
>> Taylor: Vaporized, yes.
>> Farz: Which makes you wonder if they knew about this. They referenced an opera movie. Just like, make more of these things.
>> Taylor: Well, I mean, yeah, they were like. I mean, yeah, rather than drop a bomb, have a bomb. Boat.
>> Farz: Yeah, yeah, Get a boat, fill it with this, and drop it from a. Another vessel. I don't know how it works.
>> Taylor: Well, yes, because it did create. Okay, so immediately it destroys 400 acres, which is like 1.6 square kilometers, 0.63 square miles. All but one of the people on the emo died. So people on the emo. Most of them are dead. All but one of the people on the Mont Blanc survived. And the guy who died from the Mont Blanc died because a tree fell on him. Because they were hiding in the woods when the sound wave came in and went through for everyone, it created a mushroom cloud which no one had ever seen before, full of debris and, like, not just regular debris, but, like, really f****** hot debris from, like, buildings and factories and other ships and things.
>> Farz: The metal of the ship itself that is now molten lava.
>> Taylor: Exploded into the air. People went blind immediately who were looking at it. Like, if you had. If you were outside and had your eyes open and looking at it, you went blind. Whether permanently or not. Like, you. You went blind. There's actually gonna be a lot of advancements in eye surgery after this. And there's more, more to that than that. I guess a lot of people lost their eyes because they're looking out the window. So imagine looking out your window and your window explodes.
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: You know, and you have no warning. Like, you don't know. Like, it just explodes towards you. So there's so many people who are, you know, like, now they're all dead. But, like, you know, you would see people walking around Halifax with, like, terrible facial injuries. You know, like people had glass in their head for weeks. Like, they just. Everything was a mess. It's hard to do a black rain, which also happened in after Hiroshima and Nagasaki, but it had, like, radiation in it. But this one didn't have radiation, but it was still a rain of, like, oil, you know, so you're covered in, like, hot burning oil on top of the debris that's falling on top of this hot cloud that just, like, knocked everything that you had over. And then guess what else happened?
>> Farz: Alligators showed up.
>> Taylor: A tsunami.
>> Farz: Jeez. Yeah.
>> Taylor: Because of this blast. So they said that you could see the bottom of the harbor for a second. That's how big the blast was. And then it pushed the water 18, 18 meters above the waterline and put push water everywhere too. So your house has just, your glass exploded in your face. Your house has just been knocked off its foundation and now there's a whole 18 meter wave of water coming towards you that you're going to. The people who lived woke up like blocks away from their house, you know, crazy. And like you, you're a lot of people are naked, like you're like your clothes get knocked off like more than you think that they would, you know. And it's cold, it's December, you know. So all this stuff is happening at the same time. People are obviously separated from their families. They're bleeding, they're full of glass, they' family is missing. There are people who were on other ships when the Mont Blanc exploded who survived like the only people who survived in their whole ship. And they remember waking up on a sinking ship in the dark on top of a bunch of bodies because everybody in the ship had died and electricity was out and they had to like crawl their way out and find their way out. And there's probably tons of people who woke up like that and then just drowned, you know, and never told their story of being trapped in a boat with a bunch of bodies in the dark. After this explosion happened. There are a lot of orphans, which is so sad. So a lot of children who's just. Both their parents died and it's like a baby, you have to figure out whose baby it is. And people like think it's their baby but they don't know because the babies are covered in grime and they can't tell. A week after the explosion they found an 18 month old girl in a stove that had protected her and she lived but her parents were gone. You know, so like stuff like that, just so awful. And then on top of everything else there are fires because it's cold. So everybody had their heat on, everybody cooking breakfast. So everyone's gas stove was on and your like wood burning stove was on and like all these things. So now it's a fire, just like what happened in San Francisco like post earthquake. Now there's a fire. So entire neighborhoods are just going to be burned to the ground. There is, there are several stories that are so sad about. Like there's one where a dad pulled, got to go, got one of his kids out of the house, but the house was burning and he couldn't go back in to save the rest of his kids and his wife.
The blast was felt hundreds of miles away, obviously
And he was comforted by the fact that he couldn't hear them screaming. So he assumed that they'd already died. You know, Jeez, you know, he's like. He has. He has to take comfort in that because, like, I'm hoping that they were smashed in the initial blast and didn't die of the fire, which is so awful to like, have thing. There's some big buildings that are destroyed. Like the school is destroyed. The principal's daughter, she dies. That. That church, they just paid off as totally destroyed, which is super annoying. The Acadia Sugar Refinery lost most of their workers because it was like a big concrete building that collapsed in on itself. The Nova Scotia Cotton Mill was a mile away and it was destroyed by fire as the. For the floors collapsed after the like, reverberation. Part of the anchor of the Mont Blanc was. That weighed 1140 pounds, was found 2.35 miles away.
>> Farz: That's insane.
>> Taylor: You know, and it was felt hundreds of miles away. Hundreds of miles away, obviously, like you could just. It was. Was almost a nuclear blast. It was. It was felt so far away. So immediately, of course, people start helping carrying injured people up higher to the hills, you know, looking for survivors, trying to get people together. One man who's. Who's mentioned in everything, who is a hero. His name was Patrick Vincent Coleman. He went by Vince. He was 45. He worked in the train yards. And he knew that a train was coming with like passengers on it. And it was set to be there at 8:55. So the ship's already been on fire for 44 for like 10 minutes. He knows going to explode by now. Instead of leaving like everybody else, sent a message along the line in Morse code that said, hold up train, ammunition ship, a fire and harbor making for Pier 6 and will explode. Guess this will be my last message. Goodbye, boys. And he saved the train. Train stopped six miles away. He died. His wife and his four children survived. He's memorialized a ton in.
>> Farz: Yeah, of course.
>> Taylor: So now the news is getting out, albeit slowly, because it's still like. So like a lot of houses didn't have phones. You know, a lot of people were, you know, telegraph. Like the Western Union in halifax. People worked 24 hour shifts for the first week. You know, because you're trying to get news out, get help, tell people where people are. A lot of the people will find their loved ones because of newspaper reporters. Because the reporters would go to the hospital, list everybody they could find, put it in the paper. So I'd be like, okay, Forrest, Oklahoma's Andrews is at this hospital, so we could go find you, you know, because we Couldn't find you any other way. So, yeah, things like that are happening. The. The good news is a lot of people are trained for war. And, like, this made me think of, like, I should get trained in, like, some basic first aid, you know, I know, like, enough to, like, clean like a child scraped knee, but I should know how to clean a burn, you know, and things like that. So, like, that's stuff that people knew how to do, which was good. There's a lot of stories of people who, like, become doctors and nurses because of this, or people who are, like, in medical school and they're like, do you know how to do this? And they're like. Like, yep. Even though they hadn't learned it yet, but they do it anyway, you know, just because they're. They need to help people. There is a lot of, like, fear that it was the Germans, which is obviously what you would think immediately, you know, so people are worried that they're, like, being, like, attacked and that war is coming. But then the word does get out that, like, it was. It wasn't the Germans. It was like something else. So people kind of can take a step back and organize themselves because they don't have this, like, immediate fear that it's going to happen again. So they have that at least. Help across Canada comes via rail and ship. The Halifax Relief Commission, which was formed by, like, the mayor who was like a. It was like his, like, second day as mayor or something, like, he was like, pretty brand new, was formed by noon trying to help organize relief because a lot of it had to be done, like, immediately, especially, like, with, like, the bodies and getting people warm and all those things. I mentioned this before when I talked about the Titanic, but John Henry Barnstad is the person who pioneered that way of identifying body is like the toe tag, like, you know, writing down all the information. Like, I found this person wearing this outfit. They had glasses, like, they did this or, like, whatever it is, and then putting people into individual body bags just for, like, sanitary reasons and, like, keeping them separate. And his son Arthur was there during the Halifax explosion and was the one who helped with the bodies during. During that. The Halifax Relief Commission would exist until 1976. It created a lot of memorials and gave out pensions and insurance money and made sure that people got what they needed after was done. Like I said, huge advancements from eye surgery would come from this. So a lot of people, like, lost an eye and lost it. A lot of people had to have, like, damaged eyes removed. So they had. They did 249 surgeries to remove one eye and 16 to remove both eyes from survivors. There's a story of a girl helping in the hospital and she found a bucket full of eyes, which I just seems terrible. A lot of cities obviously immediately gave money and relief. People started coming in via train. The trains were moving pretty quickly to get people in. Boston actually gave a ton of money. They had been one of the cities, one of the only cities in North America that already had a committee in case of a disaster. So they were already ready to be bombed by the Germans or, you know, whatever. So they telegraphed to Halifax that we heard something happened by like 10am we heard something happened. Can we help? They didn't hear back so they just went. They sent a train with like doctors and food and clothes like immediately to help. They were there by the 8th to relieve all the doctors in Halifax. The doctors in Halifax been working non stop and like they didn't know where their families were either.
The exact number of people who died from the Halifax Explosion is unknown
And they were injured too. You know, like all the things since 1971. Halifax supplies Boston with their Christmas tree as a thank you too. I know Another thing that happened that made it harder was a blizzard dropped 16 inches of snow the next day.
>> Farz: Most nightmare, like this has to be the most nightmare story you've ever told. You're. You're drowning on top of other dead bodies. There's buckets of eyeballs. Like it's just a fire wizard after a fire and then a tsunami. What else? Let's keep going.
>> Taylor: I know. So the exact number of people who died is unknown, but the, the Halifax Explosion Remembrance Book, which is the official database, identifies 1782 people that died directly from this like immediately. Again, 1600 people died almost immediately, vaporized like, or smashed or whatever, or drowned right afterwards in the tsunami. The last body was found at the exhibition grounds, just like a, you know, part of town in 1919, they found like his bones.
>> Farz: The.
>> Taylor: An additional 9,000 people were injured. 1630 homes were destroyed. 12,000 homes were damaged. 6,000 people were left homeless. 25,000 people were left with insufficient shelter. So they had a house, but they didn't have four walls. You know, the industrial sector was gone. Many of the workers and dockyard workers were obviously people that were immediately killed. A lot of people never found their families. Like there's kids. Who's only one left out of five kids and parents, you know, like a 13 year old is the only one left in their whole entire family. A lot of children were sent to live with extended families. People from all over North America, like offered To. To take in orphans. The Micmac settlement was destroyed, Totally destroyed. Sixteen deaths were reported, but there were probably more. It was in a different part of town, so it was like, less gets affected immediately, but their settlement was destroyed. Africville was also destroyed because a lot of their homes were, like, built a lot more poorly than the other homes. And like, the more affluent parts of town, there was no police protection there because the rest of Halifax, there wasn't any looting or like, you know, there wasn't a lot of, like, hurting other people. You know, the police work out immediately, and people were, like, looking out for each other. But in Africville, they weren't given that protection, and they also weren't given any of the money that was coming in from other places. So they. Even though they, like, paid the same amount of taxes, everybody else, you know, they weren't. They were not helped. And their area just got worse and worse. In the late 1960s, they bought everybody out for, like, $500 and totally destroyed the whole area, which is a bummer. There is also speculation that some people just left their families and left like a 911 like they were from their body. Like, maybe they're gone. You know, they're like this. And it's. It was easy to go and start a new life.
>> Farz: Did that happen during 9 11?
>> Taylor: There's like, a couple stories of that happening, of people just like, where someone's
>> Farz: like, I want to leave my wife anyways.
>> Taylor: Yeah. My wife.
>> Farz: Kids are real drag. But this happen. So I can just cling on one of the bodies.
>> Taylor: Yep.
>> Farz: That's pretty devious.
>> Taylor: Yeah. And it was easy to. Easier to do in 1917 than it is still. But, like, that could have happened.
The court initially said it was the Mont Blanc's captain and the pilot who
So whose fault was it in? I think it was the emo's fault, like, 90% because they're on the wrong side of the road. Yes. But the court at first said it was the Mont Blanc's captain and the pilot who. Who were to blame because the Mount Block puts quote, it was Mount Block's responsibility alone to ensure that she avoided a collision at all costs. And, like, yes, they're the ones that knew what was on there. But also, you should avoid collisions. You shouldn't be going toward. You should be driving on the wrong side of the road, you know? Yeah.
>> Farz: Why risk it?
>> Taylor: It's not your fault. It's like. It's not like you could hit anything, you know, it doesn't. It just happens to be the worst thing you could hit, but you're gonna hit something, you know, so that Was probably because of like some anti Frenchness and the email lawyer was kind of a goon, you know, and like, you of made it very, like, more dramatic on their side. So they had more trials, a few more trials. It was like they went back and forth. Some said it was the emo's fault, you know, because, you know, no one wanted to get an accident. They were on the wrong side of the road. The harbor should have been more on top of things. It should have had that red flag. So finally, in 1920, the Judicial Committee of the Privy Council in London, because again, they're still part of the British Empire, decided it was a tie. And no one was ever convicted of anything. No one. No one got in trouble for drinking. And to be fair, the captain of the emo was.
>> Farz: Nobody wanted it to happen. Yeah, there you go.
>> Taylor: Yeah. Yeah. No one wanted it to happen. But what happened after? Most of the city needed to be rebuilt. You know, again, thousands of people were homeless. And this is where, you know, the city gets to decide what's going to happen. Like, some cities like Chicago, San Francisco, they rebuild after this happens, like, and they. And around the same period of time, they rebuilt and they rebuild better. Other cities like Galveston after that hurricane, like, they never came back. They were one of the biggest. They were like the second biggest city in all Texas. And Houston took all of their, like, port stuff, and now Houston is way bigger than Galveston. There's a ton of other stories of cities that were destroyed by, like, disasters, natural or otherwise, that never came back. An example is Vanport, Oregon, which was the second largest city in Oregon during World War II. That was built for dock workers and built like public housing, and it was like, super successful. It was destroyed by flooding by nearby river, and now it's a park. It just never rebuilt, you know, so sometimes it happens. But Halifax did rebuild. They rebuilt quickly. Full train service was restored by the 9th. They built new homes with better materials pretty quickly as well. So there's a lot of, like, really beautiful, like, homes that were built directly after this that you can still see today, like on the side of the Halifax harbor that are. That are still there. The actual, like, site where it happened was where they had like, a big memorial and like a museum. They actually tore that down and put like a big factory there. So. Which was like, kind of a bummer. They did that like, later. Yeah. So it actually had brought in a lot of tourism for people to, like, see this space and see this stuff, and. And now people tend to forget that it ever happened. You Know.
>> Farz: Well, unless they listen to this show.
>> Taylor: Let's listen to the show and learn all about it. And that. That. That's it. That's the Halifax explosion.
In World War II, US sent a lot of materials to the Allies
>> Farz: I was looking at pictures of Halifax harbor when you were talking, and I will say it was. It's. It's a very pretty area. When I think of a harbor, like a major industrial harbor, I think of Long beach, which is like the most revolting possible place on Earth.
>> Taylor: Yes.
>> Farz: This is not that.
>> Taylor: No, I know. It looks very, very pretty. And it's like, you know, not as cold as the rest of Canada. So it has, like, you know, decent weather and. Yeah, it looks beautiful.
>> Farz: I'll tell you a fun side story. So in the. Around this time, as part of this whole effort, with the US's involvement of sending materials over to. It's. This is why it's relevant, because In World War II, the US sent a lot of materials to the Allies in their fight, or World War I and World War II. But we're talking about World War I time periods here. What, 99 Invisible did an episode that talked about how Herbert Hoover, before he was President, he ran this, like, department, and he looked around and said, there's no standardization of the United States amongst anybody. So the simplest way to explain it is like this. A screw thread, right? Like, if you look at a screw thread, if it. If the angle is different, then it only works with a specific nut or bolt. Right? But that's a problem when you're trying to industrialize the entire country, because then only one manufacturer can only produce that thing. Then you got to transport it. Increases cost, all that stuff. So Herbert Hoover undertook this effort to standardize everything in the United States. And as a byproduct of that, when this event happened and we were shipping jeeps and all kinds of different things to Europe to use, they were like, we can't do any of this because we never standardized anything. And so as a result of that, the US standardization process became the default of the entire world. It was funny because they brought up in the context, like, why does the US feel like it can push its way around? Because it can. Because it literally invented all these standardizations that you can't build a house in Germany without the standardizations that were issued and mandated by the United States, which is kind of interesting.
>> Taylor: So it's interesting. I wonder why, though, like, things like our hugs are so different.
>> Farz: They did say that, like, the one thing they said that they tried. The Europeans tried to get the US on the metric system, like, screw you, we're not doing that.
>> Taylor: Yeah, yeah.
>> Farz: Deviations there.
>> Taylor: My mom was a home ec teacher in, like, the 19, like the late 1970s. And she had, like. I think she has a cookbook in Metro because, like, they were like, we're gonna change. And she was like, like, well, my job's gonna get harder. So she, like, bought a book and, like, was studying it, and they were like, we're not doing it. Forget it. You know? Yeah.
>> Farz: Well, that was really interesting. That was. That has to go down as your goriest possible story.
>> Taylor: I mean, just so many bad things happening one after one after another. Like, you don't expect a tsunami in December, Canada.
>> Farz: Yeah. And in the context, like I said, the Oppenhar movie, they were. They talked about the Halifax explosion as, like, here's what is doable with this tremendous volume of traditional explosives. Now we need to take all that and shrink it into something tiny that is deliverable by an airplane.
>> Taylor: Right.
>> Farz: So this is the container ship, it looks like. And obviously you can't ship a container ship across the Atlantic, but that was their idea. That was like, their thought process. Like, that's how you get to an atomic bomb.
>> Taylor: So I'm laughing because earlier you suggested just putting a ship full of explosives onto an airplane and dropping it on someone.
>> Farz: I'm also not a nuclear physicist, so I never pretended to know what I'm talking about. It's a caveat.
>> Taylor: Cool.
>> Farz: Well, that was awesome. Thanks for sharing. That was really. That was sad and fun, but interesting. And, you know, with stories like this that happened so long ago, when you're like. Like, I think once the time period where anybody who could have been alive then is over, it's like, okay, I'm just gonna enjoy the insanity of this experience as opposed to the feelings and the sentiment that might have come from it.
>> Taylor: I mean, like, I think a couple things, like, I remember, like, in my email, I sent an email to everyone on 911 that, like, sometimes, like, send other people, you know, I'm okay, but I don't know what's going on. And, like, it was like, people were definitely saying that we were, like, going to be continually bombed and attacked. You know, you just, like, don't know. And there's so many, like, rumors that go around and, like, you just are like, what is happening? We don't know. And regular structure feels, like, unimportant, you know?
>> Farz: Yeah, yeah,
>> Taylor: yeah. I have one listener mail, please. It's from Julia, and they're the one who suggested the move bombing. And two notes. One, I kept bringing up that the kids in the move, like, group were homeschooled, and that's why people are mad at them. And Julia made a great point that, like, if there were white kids, it wouldn't have been a problem, you know, because, like, you know, I don't think that's true, but I also think I'm searching for something, for a reason for them to bomb them in the first place. You know, I'm just trying to figure out, like, why they were so mad. So he's, like, trying to figure that out. And then also, I kept saying row house, but in. In Philly, it's a row home. You have to say it in a Philadelphia accent, like, roh home.
>> Farz: Is that seriously, you know, that, you
>> Taylor: know the Philadelphia, you know, accent where you're like water. That's the only word that I remember.
>> Farz: Yeah, yeah.
>> Taylor: Like a row home.
>> Farz: I did not know that I would never practice you.
>> Taylor: So I apologize for saying row house when I meant ro home. Like, I'm from Philly.
>> Farz: Well, thank you, Julia, for writing in.
If you want to write a hate mail, that is totally acceptable
Please, everybody else who listens and enjoys or doesn't enjoy, if you want to write a hate mail, that is totally acceptable as well.
>> Taylor: I mean, you can. I just, like. I don't love it, but, like, you
>> Farz: can just do it. Just do it. It'd be fun. Get off your chest.
>> Taylor: Take.
>> Farz: Take.
>> Taylor: Instead of taking your anger directly, instead
>> Farz: of taking your anger out on your family, put in an email fired over to demon tod gmail.com and put it on us.
>> Taylor: I don't know. I don't love that. As a suggestion, not a demand, or
>> Farz: the kinder version that Taylor suggested, which is if you just want to reach out, also use doom to fell pod at Gmail to reach out.
>> Taylor: Thank you. Thank you. Thank you. Cool. Thanks.
>> Farz: Anything else, Taylor?
>> Taylor: That's it.
>> Farz: Sweet. We'll go ahead and cut it off there. Thank you very much.