Next up! Taylor talks about the assassin of the assassin - Jack Ruby! It’s the wildest weekend in American History - JFK is shot on Friday just after noon - Lee Harvey Oswald goes on the run, kills a cop, gets caught, is beat up by cops, needs a sweater, and is shot by local strip club owner Jack Ruby Sunday morning - ON LIVE TV - less than 48 hours after JFK died. We seriously don’t know how America recovered from this. Who was Jack Ruby? Did he happen to be in the right place at the right time to do what the cops couldn’t do? How many others would have done the same thing if they had the opportunity? Most importantly, what did we lose by not being able to interrogate Lee Harvey Oswald, and what did we gain by years of conspiracy theories? Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/doomedtofailpod/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/doomedtofailpod Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@doomedtofailpod Email: doomedtofailpod@gmail.com
Next up! Taylor talks about the assassin of the assassin - Jack Ruby! It’s the wildest weekend in American History - JFK is shot on Friday just after noon - Lee Harvey Oswald goes on the run, kills a cop, gets caught, is beat up by cops, needs a sweater, and is shot by local strip club owner Jack Ruby Sunday morning - ON LIVE TV - less than 48 hours after JFK died.
We seriously don’t know how America recovered from this. Who was Jack Ruby? Did he happen to be in the right place at the right time to do what the cops couldn’t do? How many others would have done the same thing if they had the opportunity? Most importantly, what did we lose by not being able to interrogate Lee Harvey Oswald, and what did we gain by years of conspiracy theories?
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/doomedtofailpod/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/doomedtofailpod
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@doomedtofailpod
Email: doomedtofailpod@gmail.com
Some Sources:
The Trial of Jack Ruby: A Classic Study of Courtroom Strategies
Rubenstein v. State - Wikipedia
Frederic Andrews Gibbs and the Assassination of John Fitzgerald Kennedy - PMC
Last Podcast on the Left - JFK / Lee Harvey Oswald, Part IV: OSWALD!
Hi Friends! Our transcripts aren't perfect, but I wanted to make sure you had something - if you'd like an edited transcript, I'd be happy to prioritize one for you - please email doomedtofailpod@gmail.com - Thanks! - Taylor
0:12
hello welcome to Doom to fail this is a new day we did not just cut that last
0:19
recording off and move on to a new recording I'm we're gonna we're joined
0:24
here by Taylor we're going to be discussing a historical tale today about a red flag relationship that went awry
0:29
how are you doing Taylor I'm good um this is not about a relationship but
0:34
it's about a person who failed are you still drinking 19 crimes yeah it's been three days and you're still
0:41
drinking the same last one could you imagine good for me if it was did you see there's a thing one time that was
0:47
like for sale on the internet and it was like this wine cork can tell you if your wine is old and I'm like
0:52
what who drinks or wine who has that problem yeah seriously well adjusted
0:58
people maybe I don't like them don't even bother yeah um normal thing to say totally fine cool
1:05
well great okay uh you're drinking water you're gonna go to yoga
1:12
um but I am drinking wine but if I were really in this story I might be drinking
1:18
some whiskey because we're kind of we're going back to the 1960s so it always feels like a little Whiskey and a cigarette kind of time you know no not
1:24
cigarette cigar not like a um
1:30
what's cigarette and mad men like the palm the Virginia Slims or whatever yeah
1:35
I just feel like you'd be or Lucky Strikes cigarettes so terrible
1:42
those are cigarettes in this but whatever okay so the other day
1:48
I went to the library because the library has a book sale and hardcover books are are one dollar each or it's uh
1:54
four for three dollars so I bought a ton of books I bought a bunch of Taylor Caldwell books she's like an author from
2:00
like I don't know a while ago she like wrote I haven't read them yet but I bought like nine of them because I remember seeing a Taylor Caldwell
2:06
because she's like the oldest Taylor woman I could like find so I was like excited that she was like an older woman in Taylor so I bought a bunch of those
2:12
but then I found this book that I learned later was out of print and I'm I
2:18
tried I read the first like 20 pages and I was like I'm never gonna finish this in a week so I rented a book
2:23
on on Libby which is the audible the not audible but like audiobook app from the
2:29
library so I rented a book and I listened to that instead but I kind of looked in this book anyway but anyway I'm gonna tell you about another trial
2:36
of the century that before all the other trials of the century I'm going to hold my book up
2:41
because I'm going to talk about the Assassin of the Assassin Mr Jeff Ruby I love Jack Rubenstein so this book I
2:50
got to the library the trial of Jack Ruby a classic study of courtroom strategies by John Kaplan and John R
2:56
Waltz and I immediately showed all my friends this picture because John R Waltz is 35 in this picture I'm gonna show it to you
3:03
but can you see it I mean I can see him being 35 and I mean
3:08
he's a real he's a real 1967-35. yeah that's like that's like 35
3:14
when you live to 52. you know but he already had kids in college you know 35.
3:20
but I'll share that but anyway this book is amazing it's out of Prince and I'm super excited um I also use my own personal copy of
3:26
the Warren report which I'm also holding up for you that I've highlighted that I bought in a sale and then the book that
3:31
I read the main one that I got from the library I'm gonna grab it I just took a picture of it to make sure to tell you
3:36
it's by Dan Abrams it is Kennedy's Avenger assassination conspiracy and the Forgotten trial of Jack Ruby
3:44
so you ready love it okay when I was growing up there's some
3:50
things that I knew about JFK like that I feel like everyone knows and there's stuff that I learned later that I was like why don't we learn that as well I
3:56
knew he was killed in Dallas it was on video there's like suspicious like grassy knoll the guy with the umbrella
4:02
you know all that stuff um and I knew that Lee Harvey Oswald did it from The Book Depository for more his work that's
4:09
what I knew so I thought I didn't know that I learned later that is so much more fun that makes it more fun it's
4:14
just like the tension in Dallas about JFK's visit that he was in the car with the governor of Texas John colony who
4:20
was also shot he's in the hospital for you know a while with his injuries he survived also Lee Harvey Oswald killed a
4:27
cop named JD Tippett that same day which I don't know and also Harvey Oswald had
4:32
tried to kill Edwin Walker another politician a while before so he was like not brand new to this assassin thing and
4:38
it also didn't know about Jack Ruby like I feel like I don't know why we don't know more about him but I didn't know about him until it wasn't one of the
4:45
first things I learned so real quick before we get to eat because I've been talking a lot about this lately we're
4:50
gonna we're not we're on the same page that the Secret Service children
4:56
right I think that they like helped but I think I think Lehigh as well did it I mean I think it was an accident
5:04
okay okay well we have Oswald did it the first first and then the Secret Service
5:10
was like fumbling hungover and then they did it but I don't think we have for Harvey
5:15
Oswald didn't do it I think he did yeah he definitely took the first shot the
5:20
second shot and then from a legal perspective felony murder he's the reason why he's dead because he started
5:27
the triggering events but like I do also think that the guy actually shot him the back of the headphones
5:32
we could talk about this a little bit in our Kennedy episode but I think it's I mean obviously like this is the This Is
5:37
The Conspiracy Theory but in a lot of it is because of Jack Ruby it's kind of Jack Ruby's fault that we have this conspiracy because we don't know what
5:43
the [ __ ] happened and we will never know but he um also like he was wearing a back brace Kennedy so like he moves in a
5:50
way that's weird yeah that's true or then you would think so there's a whole bunch of stuff but let's talk about Jack
5:55
Ruby Jack Ruby as you said was born Jacob Leon Rubinstein on March 25th 1911
6:01
in Chicago Illinois hey grew up in a Jewish family which is important later he didn't get a lot of schooling he was
6:09
in foster care for a little bit of his his youth his mom was a schizophrenic and his dad was an alcoholic so he kind
6:15
of didn't have a chance he had like a lot of like a rough childhood he had a couple siblings he was like a punk kid
6:20
he was born in 1911. so I feel like imagine him in like 1920 Chicago being like 10 years old and being like I'm Jack Ruby I'll shine your shoes I'll do
6:29
that thing for you but you know like a little bit of like a kid wanting to like be more than he was and wanted to like
6:35
be popular in the kind of a little punk kid he's not in school because he's like around you know during World War II he joined the Air
6:42
Force everybody really liked him he was a guy's guy kind of a Class Clown maybe a little bit annoying you know like
6:47
maybe a little bit like trying too hard yeah yeah Fine Arts you know what I mean so after World War II he moves to Dallas
6:54
and he runs some nightclubs with his sister this is where he changed his name to Jack Ruby from Jacob Rubinstein yeah
7:01
because he wanted to be he was Jewish because being Jewish in the 1920s wasn't easy yeah totally
7:07
um even post World War II I mean America if we were terrible so in by now it's
7:13
1963 and he runs two clubs he runs a carousel club and the Vegas club the
7:19
carousel club in Dallas is kind of a strip joint the Vegas is more of a rock and roll Place probably had dancers you
7:25
know it's like running adult clubs in Dallas yeah he continues to be a guy's
7:30
guy he gets in fights a lot at work like either kicking out patrons or fighting with other people that work there but
7:36
afterwards he kind of doesn't remember or he like apologizes in like a weird way and he's like oh man it's like it
7:41
like Clips on and off if that makes sense yeah I read that or I heard that
7:47
he was actually like a pretty like pretty hot headed guy yeah was he
7:53
actually called Sparky no I just joked that Henry made I don't remember hearing that but it
7:59
could have been it could have been no I don't know I don't think I heard that but maybe he did I did listen to the last podcast about that last episode of
8:05
the JFK that mentioned Jack Ruby but yeah that he he feels like a Sparky you know he says I'm Jack Ruby all the time
8:11
you know he has a fedora he has his like little suit on and he's like I'm Jack Ruby he continues to be like a guy's guy
8:18
he kind of fight with someone at work one time and that person bit the tip of Jack Ruby's finger off that's how
8:23
intense the fight was so he like doesn't get in like zero fights he doesn't make fights there's a union that he's
8:28
involved in the American Guild a variety artist that's the union for his dancers so he like has some like skirmishes with
8:34
them he always wants to be a little more popular than he was and he always kind
8:39
of wants to be like a mafia bad guy he's not you know
8:44
like that's part of the conspiracy and part of the like who is Jack Ruby is like he was like
8:49
tangentially around the mafia but he's also like around the police he's also a wrong reporter as he's also around
8:55
groups of people trying to find where he could like fit in and like have an influence and there's like potential of
9:00
the FBI had contacted him to be like can you help us and like report on the mob because he was like that kind of guy
9:06
like he didn't belong anywhere but he was like in and out of different circles right she's riddles handout cards for his Club
9:12
but be like hey y'all you can get in free to the Carousel club tonight you know and maybe like I'm Jack Ruby here's a card like that's kind of yeah you like
9:19
to be a man about town and like to exactly you know important he never
9:24
marries he has a girlfriend for a while but they break up he never marries he lives with his sister for most of the time he lives in Dallas but by 1963 he
9:31
has a roommate so he's living with a dude the roommates he also has a bunch of dogs and he loves them like calls
9:39
them his children loves them calls one of them his wife not weird but like it's
9:45
important to know that like Jack Ruby loves his dogs so he's like a big dog person who doesn't have like he has a
9:50
lot of siblings around the country that he calls but he has his dogs that he like really lives with and loves he's also at this time taking a drug called
9:58
proludin which is an appetite suppressant like a weight loss drug and it's a smidge methy
10:06
so it's like kind of like a speed to like make you not want to eat you know so he's a little bit hyped up on this
10:11
drug they had access to so much more effective drugs than we do now I know I think it's still available but I
10:17
couldn't really understand the Wikipedia page but I mean why shouldn't take it but yeah no
10:22
we don't take it yeah exactly so he's taking that drug Jack's been in trouble with the law a
10:28
little bit but like nothing big just like sometimes his alcohol license runs out or his club's open too late or whatever but nothing terrible
10:35
um he knows he knows a lot of policemen he knows the cops um he's also doing some like side things like he's hustling
10:41
these twist boards that are like a thing you stand on and like do the twist for like weight loss
10:46
yeah that's something I'd buy and then he also was trying to sell Jeeps to Cuba so I thought that might have been
10:51
communist yeah but like he wasn't a communist he wasn't like in cahoots with Cuba he was just trying to make a book
10:59
you know it sounds like he just wanted to like be in any spot that made him seem like he was an important man and like I'm part of like
11:06
some spy thing exactly I'm important yeah
11:11
exactly but another thing that we know about Jack Ruby is that Jack Ruby loved John F Kennedy he had a picture of him
11:18
in the club in his clubs which like people used to have pictures of the president there's something else podcast more than like they do now but still he
11:25
like really did he did love Kennedy especially in Texas where people weren't you know were pretty conservative and didn't love Kennedy as we've said and he
11:32
one thing he loved about JFK is like as another thing I guess another thing that I knew about JFK earlier was that he was
11:37
Catholic and I guess Biden is the second Catholic President right yeah that's a good point and um but because he was
11:43
Catholic that was a huge deal so and he was also like very kind to choose like he didn't he had no anti-Semitism in his
11:49
platforms and uh Jack Ruby saw that and really respected that so he loved Kennedy as a president so it's November
11:58
1963. we're in Dallas we're in Texas Texas is rough it's not Democratic
12:04
country might be in Austin so it's not Texas it is specifically
12:10
Dallas is like this Central Hub of like just
12:17
every dip [ __ ] horrible inbred [ __ ] that you
12:23
have in all of Texas just coalesce in one spot
12:29
yeah well that's where we are and we're gonna um also from Dallas so I'm allowed
12:34
to say this that's true that's true at first so I'm gonna go
12:39
through some timelines and then we'll talk about the trial and the people involved in the trial but so JFK's visiting Dallas
12:45
um as we know they don't love him but he's there anyway so right after noon on
12:51
November 22nd 1963 also plug don't watch the 11 22 63 show on Hulu but read the
12:57
book The Stephen King book 11 22 63. it's great Stephen King wrote a book
13:03
about JFK's assassination it's so good usually you have Frida it's great what's it again
13:09
11 22 63 it's just the date it's like not it's not like a
13:14
a non-fiction book it's a fiction book there's like magic in it but it's real good okay
13:21
noted okay so Lehigh Harvey Oswald shoots JFK chaos
13:30
while this is happening Jack Ruby is in the office of the Dallas Morning News
13:35
putting in weekend ads for his clubs he had to go in in person to put in ads for his clubs to be in the paper he was a
13:42
visibly upset before knowing that JFK had been shot he was upset about the Weissman ad do you know what the
13:48
Weissman ad is no so it is an ad that was put in the paper in Dallas before before he got there and
13:57
before I'm sorry before um Jiffy got there that was sort of like we don't want you here Dallas doesn't
14:02
want you here essentially yeah so it was in the paper and Jack Ruby was upset because
14:07
I don't know I didn't read enough on like exactly who bird I've ever figured it out but it sounded like a Jewish name
14:12
so Jack Ruby was like they're gonna blame juice for if anything bad happens here in Dallas for JFK so he was like
14:18
upset he was like I want him here you know like I like him and was really thinking about that in his head when
14:23
this happened so all of a sudden The Newsroom erupts into chaos obviously because they find out that the
14:29
president's been shot Jack is stunned he just kind of sits her for a while can't believe that this has happened
14:35
everybody is like kind of going crazy they're running around getting the news out across country across the world my
14:42
parents were very young when it happened but my dad always says my my uncle his
14:47
uncle my great uncle was in Mexico on vacation and he was at a bar in Mexico and the bartender said your president's
14:54
dead and my uncle was like he said was it a car accident because that was like
14:59
the only thing he could think of like was it the plane crash like what could have possibly happened you know like you just such a crazy thing to have happened
15:05
so JFK shot rushed to the hospital he dies Lee Harvey Oswald leaves The Book
15:11
Depository long story short let's get stopped by a cop kills the cop goes to a movie theater gets caught they know it's
15:17
him that's right he I thought he killed a cop in the movie theater but I think I'm wrong yeah it was like on the street
15:23
okay yeah and then that was oh Cliff I remember that it was it was Oak Cliff movie theater which is now like a super
15:29
gentle five important town but yeah so Jack spends the rest of the day he
15:36
cancels his ads for the club because like Agree to Agree it's not great to have an ad for your strip club up on the
15:43
weekend that the president's been shot or be like come here to relax things are [ __ ] up you can go either way but he cancels his
15:49
ads he closes his Cubs his clubs for the weekend and he's in debt like Jack owes
15:54
money to a lot of different people he needs to have his businesses open but he closes them for the weekend just like out of respect and he's like really
16:01
trying to like overly show respect and overly show remorse yeah you know like um so he
16:08
cancels ads he kind of runs around in kind of like a chaos he calls everybody you know
16:15
everyone he knows calls us siblings he calls his friends he calls his ex-girlfriend he hasn't been with her in
16:20
a while then it calls her anyway because it's like needs to talk to someone he can't believe this just happened he can't believe it happened in Dallas he's
16:26
worried about Dallas he's worried about Jews in Dallas he's worried about like the future of the country like so many things are going through his head he's
16:32
kind of like it's all spinning and he's not the only one I imagine you know like of course not being killed is
16:39
a huge deal yeah um so he goes to Temple he's up very very late
16:45
um he tries to buy sandwiches for the police but they don't but they just ate so he has all these sandwiches and he brings them to a radio station he's just
16:52
like driving around and like stopping in places and calling people and like a whole thing he thinks he needs to do
16:58
something but he doesn't and he doesn't know what to do exactly trying different things and there's nothing for him to do
17:05
but he just wants to do something yes so at 11 30 pm on that day there's a press
17:10
conference and they bring Lee Harvey Oswald out to the press to show them
17:17
but Jack Ruby's there he kind of walks in with some other reporters he does a weird thing these two days where he like
17:25
is like next to the press in a way like he's on the phone sometimes and like to the newspaper and this newspaper to talk
17:31
to a judge and like does these things like maybe they think that he's a reporter like this is where he's trying to kind of be a reporter and he's
17:36
standing on a table with the full view of Lee Harvey Oswald and nothing happens they take Leah Harvey Oswald back in
17:43
this is the Cecilia 23rd and Jack Ruby goes home so he
17:51
on the 23rd uh or the next day he sends most of the day sorry that was 22nd now it's the 23rd the next day is pretty
17:57
much the same they remember him his family and friends remember him calling everybody he says specifically I feel so
18:04
awful for Jackie and the kids which is totally fair yeah he just like you can't believe this
18:09
happened to like this perfect family now that just Belize the whole thing of like
18:15
I want to feel importantly I'm calling them Jackie and the kids as though like I matter to these people they give a
18:21
[ __ ] by myself so he's kind of just like
18:26
doing the same wandering thing that he did the day before until about 1 30 a.m so he's up pretty late and I know all of
18:32
this because the Warren report did like a a minute by minute of his life like that he's leading up to it but on
18:39
November 24th it's Sunday it's 9 A.M and Jack Ruby wakes up in his apartment he
18:44
does some laundry he talks to his cleaning lady Eleanor Pitts on the phone and schedules time
18:50
for her to clean the apartment so he every intention of coming home talks to his cleaning lady now he is so while
18:59
Jack Ruby is talking to his cleaning lady Lee Harvey Oswald Oswald has been
19:04
interrogated by the police has been beat up you know he has like a bruise on his forehead all the things he's set to be
19:10
transferred to another jail at 10 A.M that's what the Press thinks that's what everybody thinks so 10 a.m he's going to
19:16
be moved and that's going to be like the big event it's moving him at 10 15 a.m Jack Ruby's still at home
19:23
a dancer from one of his clubs Karen Carlin calls him and asks for her
19:28
paycheck she hasn't received it yet he owes her 25 so he says okay I will wire
19:35
you 25 so Jack Ruby gets on his car with one of his dogs
19:40
drives to Western Union in Downtown Dallas he waits in line there's a line
19:45
he waits patiently in the line he goes to the teller he wires Karen
19:50
25 the receipt from his wire is time stamped at 11 17 A.M
19:58
Jack Ruby leaves Western Union walks towards the police headquarters as far
20:04
as he knows Lee Harvey Oswald is already gone I am
20:10
so there was like there was a whole thing there was a decoy armored car there was like another armored car it
20:15
like didn't work they knew there was like danger they finally get him going Lee Harvey Oswald was cold he asked for
20:22
a sweater they gave him a couple options he tried a couple on he picked a black sweater so he was like like timing
20:29
couldn't have been predicted because like weird stuff was happening you know so all this causes a delay he's
20:35
handcuffed to police officers one of the police officers says to Lee Harvey Oswald Oswald if someone shoots you I
20:42
hope there was a good good a shot as you are because you can't cuff to him so they start walking through the
20:48
basement of the police headquarters Jack Ruby goes into an open garage so it's probably left open for police cars to go
20:54
through he gets in front of the crowd of reporters and at 11 21 a.m and remember
21:00
His Western Union ticket was 11 17 a.m so at 11 21 am on live TV Jack Ruby
21:08
shoots Lee Harvey Oswald in the stomach the bullet ricochets through his body and he's rushed to the hospital the same
21:15
doctors who worked to save JFK less than 48 hours before worked on Lee Harvey
21:20
Oswald and they could not skip him and he died I mean I'm fine with it I know well I'm not fine with it because
21:27
now we don't know what happened all we can do is speculate but think of how much awesome
21:33
fanfic has been created because we have to speculate I did just plug that Stephen King book
21:39
you're not wrong there you go yeah fine I made it wrong did you ever see Jeff watched Mad Men no
21:46
never got into that one so it's it's like the 50s and 60s and the episodes in the 60s you know that JFK's
21:52
assassination is coming because so he gets killed on a Friday and one of the
21:57
um not Don Draper the main guy who you would know but another guy that works there his daughter's getting married on
22:02
the 23rd so you know like a week before you're like oh [ __ ] you know like her wedding is like and it's terrible and
22:08
like you know she 20 people come out of 200 you know and they're all in the morning with the dude anyway and all
22:13
these things but um Don Draper's wife Betty is watching TV and she's sitting in her
22:19
living room like soaking a cigarette obviously and the nanny this like black woman who's watching her two kids comes
22:25
in like with the kids and it happens live on TV you know everyone in the country saw Jack Ruby killed Lee Harvey
22:32
Oswald and Betty starts screaming she's like what is going on like what's happening what's happening and then like
22:37
her and the nanny like sit down together it was like the first time they ever like you know we're at the same level on the show for like all the
22:44
reasons but they were just like what's going on could you imagine those three days I just like live TV the president gets
22:52
shot live TV the president's assassin gets shot didn't uh didn't one of the
22:57
cops or somebody screamed Jack no because they like saw they knew what he was about potentially yeah we'll talk
23:03
about what people thought they heard people yell because someone did potentially yell Jack you son of a [ __ ] don't do it that's right yeah yeah
23:12
exactly so Jack is arrested and this is why we have conspiracy theories like I was just saying like we will never hear
23:18
from Lee Harvey Oswald we'll never know which is super frustrating cool because we have a little conspiracy theories but
23:25
also like frustrated Jack Ruby's in jail for a few months in March 1964 Jack Ruby goes on
23:32
trial for the murder of Lee Harvey Oswald the question is is Dallas on trial is Texas on trial
23:39
what do we even do here like how can you possibly have a fair trial for someone who murdered someone on live TV
23:45
I feel like those are questions that Oprah will be asking I know you're a lawyer you tell me like so it's that's
23:51
you know like that's the question like the people in Dallas are like we don't want to be seen as a place with like
23:56
vigilante justice but also like people will probably it wouldn't happen anyways because like because okay so then the
24:03
guy killed the president United States do you try him there right and there's all sorts of weird laws and
24:10
things that like don't that like I won't dig into but like jip his body technically should have
24:16
been autopsied in Dallas but it wasn't but even though like it because Lyndon Johnson was like let's get the [ __ ] out
24:22
of here and he wanted to like get into the business of being president and like move on you know but then also like
24:27
there's you know there wasn't some things weren't Federal in like weird ways so it's definitely going to be in
24:33
Texas so also the world is in chaos by now it was kind of like that moved on but like
24:39
Vietnam is about to start you know and during the same time that the papers are reporting on Jack Ruby's trial Robert
24:45
McNamara who we talked about last episode because he worked at Ford was announcing in the newspaper that we're
24:51
about to start Vietnam so like a lot of yeah the world's going thompson-turvy
24:57
yeah so we're in this trial for Jack Ruby the key players from the legal side Melvin belli is Jack
25:05
Ruby's attorney he's actually the second one that they picked it was like a whole process to get an attorney for him the Ruby family had to sell their story so
25:13
they sold their story like in advance to get money to pay for a a lawyer Melvin Bella is not from Texas he's from
25:19
California he's very flashy he loves to like walk around this is the time where everybody's watching Perry Mason you
25:25
know and like that's the kind of lawyer they're like expecting like a TV lawyer and so melon Melvin Bella is very much
25:31
that yes wants to walk around the judge hates it makes them sit down all the time it doesn't like it he does he's
25:38
like you know he wants people to draw charts and he wants to bring in props and the judge is like absolutely not Joe
25:43
Tony Hill is the Dallas attorney who assisted ballet also Phil Burleson is
25:48
that team um the prosecution is led by William F Alexander Dallas County district attorney and Henry M Wade Assistant
25:55
Attorney the jury itself is um both men and women after it's finalized they did
26:02
whole bunch of stuff like who would want the death penalty who wouldn't how much did you see what could you possibly know
26:07
things like that the jurors had a [ __ ] rotten deal they stayed in a jail cell that was open
26:16
so they didn't even get a hotel they stayed in a jail cell that was left open they were paid eight dollars a day but
26:21
charged one dollar per meal so like barely not anything they weren't
26:27
allowed visitors they had to travel around the groups you know like that makes sense but one of the jurors his brother-in-law died they didn't tell him
26:33
until after because of Texas law at the time there were no alternate jurors so
26:38
like if this jury didn't complete the thing they had to start over again yeah yeah so they really had to keep this
26:44
jury like laser focused the the Judge Joe B Joe B Brown like I said is very
26:50
Texas he reminds me of the judge and my cousin Vinnie oh God yeah that's uh Herman yeah Herman Munster yeah yeah
26:57
like he's very much like this is my courtroom he never used a gavel that was like one of his sticks but like yeah so
27:03
first the defense wants to move the trial out of Dallas because is it possible for him to even get a
27:08
fair trial there you know everyone's riled up about it to get it for a trial anywhere anywhere
27:15
so like the Philippines like I don't know where you take you like yeah there's no way everybody like I said my
27:20
great uncle was in Mexico and they knew immediately you know like everyone knew immediately within an hour of the world
27:25
now um it was in the 60s so the trial was not moved it stayed in Dallas um the prosecution did not do an opening
27:32
statement so the defense could not so they weren't able to open it up the
27:37
trial was not televised it could have been just a few years ago the Nuremberg trials had been televised so there was
27:44
like a precedent for having things like at least being able to see inside of a courtroom but Jerry Brown said no so the
27:50
defense here's what they said that's some character stuff to say about
27:55
about Jack Ruby he had a chance to shoot Lee Harvey Oswald at that press conference like I was saying he's on the
28:01
table he was really close to him he probably has a gun with him because it's Dallas everybody had a gun right
28:07
now right exactly he didn't he didn't kill him then he calls his dogs his kids
28:13
and he left one of his dogs in the car so like that's not some something that you would
28:19
do if you intended to never return right like you yeah like you would never leave Luna in a car if you thought you weren't
28:24
coming back no when you when you would think about your dogs and that at that level like you plan every moment of the
28:30
day around there like Safety and Security so yeah exactly so what the defense did is they
28:37
pled Guilty by reason of temporary insanity they didn't allow Jack Ruby to testify in his own behalf but because
28:45
people had just started to hear about pleading the fifth and there were some things on TV about like some gangsters
28:50
pleading the fifth and like people that want to incriminate themselves it was a weird time to be like if someone doesn't testify on their own defense like are
28:57
they automatically guilty like no one it was kind of weird but he did not testify him so here's what they blamed they
29:03
blamed epilepsy which is also what we blamed with Van Gogh as well Van Gogh
29:10
people believe that he had temporal lobe epilepsy um so that was like the thing that like
29:15
made him like kind of go crazy like just in his mind not have seizures but in his mind and another only in your mind
29:20
epilepsy that they said that Jack Ruby had was psychomotor epilepsy so in this former
29:27
person suffers episodes of strange Behavior he may Puck at his clothes put pictures from the wall or books from
29:33
shelves and then by explained some of the things he did were like he would get really angry and then not remember
29:38
yeah you know and they get in big fights and then have them just like oh we're
29:43
fine you know like two seconds later so their strategy was that he was in like a Fugue State when this was happening he
29:49
doesn't remember if you look at the video you know I mean like frame by frame which they did you
29:55
can see that Jack Ruby's hand keeps pulling the trigger so he like didn't he said that he didn't remember doing it and like he was kind of like in a thing
30:02
of just like doing it he other stuff that people like you were saying that they heard people say like the guy
30:09
said Jack you son of a [ __ ] don't do it some of the witnesses said they heard him say you all know me I'm Jack Ruby
30:15
that's what like you know like guys I'm Jack Ruby like he thought maybe he thought he'd be a hero you know yeah
30:21
that was always my assumption was I want to do this thing and then everybody's gonna be like
30:26
yeah because so much of us and you know this guy the personality of like I'm
30:32
important people know me like I'm like it's like you know this is probably another one of those yeah I'm Jack Ruby
30:37
I'm Rubenstein exactly and they also some people heard him say I meant to
30:43
shoot him three times I hope the son of a [ __ ] is dead and you killed my president you rat I don't think he said
30:49
that but that's cool you should call people rats more often um and then they also heard him say somebody had to do it the police
30:55
wouldn't do it you know so he just thought he would like jump in and do something like everybody wanted to do but he didn't remember and the Witnesses
31:02
are all unreliable like always you know they all remember different things their written testimony is different than what
31:08
they say at the in the courtroom which is different from what they're a member of the day of yeah yeah he thought he
31:14
was gonna be this is gonna exalt him in some way because I'm sure there were
31:21
like you just said like why the [ __ ] not there's millions of people who were like I'd love to [ __ ] kill Oswald yeah
31:27
killer president you know like sure like they think he's a comedy he's a Russian all the things so they're like
31:32
you know everyone's mad but this is America you're not supposed to do that essentially so here's a fun tidbit that
31:39
I didn't know until I was reading about this this week is that during the trial so the trials in the Dallas Courthouse
31:45
the courthouse is like a multi-story building that had just been built and Dallas was like super proud of it
31:50
um it had like the courtroom jail cells the top floor had a hanging room so tank people on top floor which feels weird I
31:57
feel like huge tank people on the ground it feels uniquely Dallas but during the trial there was a prison
32:04
escape and the Seven prisoners escaped from the jail yeah is that super fun the
32:09
New York Times headline is Dallas amused by Escape at jail fifth fugitive is recaptured 12 deputies are suspended the
32:16
guy who actually had had orchestrated the Escape he I can't remember I didn't write it on all those things but he made
32:21
a gun out of soap and like other things that he found that looked really realistic and that's how they all got out
32:27
um maybe I don't know it sounds super fun it sounds like something you could do the 20s maybe not in the 60s they're a
32:33
BBC reporter was overheard on the phone saying I'm not drunk and I'm not kidding there's been a jailbreak
32:39
people talk so much funner back then so so fun that that happened I think
32:44
they eventually call the guys and whatever so that happens during the trial the prosecution was like this was
32:50
Murder Jack Ruby did it I guess he was sad but he did it and he planned to do
32:57
it you know and the defense is like he didn't think of all the chances think of that Western Union line even the fact
33:02
that that woman needed money from him like he wouldn't have been there he was at home doing laundry like it all just
33:07
like happenstance it happened to be there one of the the defense Brandon Bush of doctors that talked about eegs
33:13
for the first time which is like brain waves later a scan the I think the original scan of Ruby's brain would be
33:19
sold for 776 dollars at auction and like his gun was sold for like fifty
33:24
thousand dollars the bullets people brought all that [ __ ] very much later if I had the money for sure by that
33:30
so one of the foremost researchers on epilepsy and on the human brain Frederick Gibbs did say a quote I have
33:37
determined that Jack Ruby has a rare form of epilepsy that's a form of seizures but the type which afflicts one
33:43
half of one percent of all epilepsies and it has a very distinctive epilatory pattern so he said like he did it like
33:49
he has epilepsy he definitely like could have done this in this like Fugue state
33:54
they're Witnesses for Jack's character they're like he was so sad talked about Jackie and the kids the whole time he
34:00
was like upset you know um the whole thing so they have tons of witnesses the police
34:06
there's back and forth on their testimony on the written statements um the closing day of the trial goes until one o'clock in the morning everyone's
34:12
exhausted but the judge is like I'm about to lose his jury they're gonna freak out on me if they didn't stay here any longer you know yeah they there's no
34:19
alternate closing statements neither lawyers are part of their their closing statements they like wish they were
34:24
better but it was one in the morning you know so people do judge ballet Jack
34:31
Ruby's lawyer for not trying anything else he went for all or nothing he said
34:36
it's temporary insanity let him off or nothing he didn't give any options for like maybe it was like this kind of
34:43
murder or this kind of blah blah blah or like whatever it is because there was somewhere it could have been maybe he
34:49
would have gotten eight years in jail you know like he went all or nothing he murdered somebody on live television
34:55
I mean I have no idea yeah but he was saying he did it because he was you know sick and emotional the next day the jury
35:02
met they didn't have a foreman yet they voted for the foreman the day that they made their decision um they picked a guy who was in the
35:08
bathroom which is hilarious they're like cool let's vote while he's out out of the room oh great he's a poor
35:14
man so they deliberated for two and a half hours do you know what the verdict was guilty
35:21
bye and what was the punishment it had to be life right it was death oh yeah definitely yeah okay that makes
35:28
sense both I lose this his [ __ ] mind the court goes nuts heals the victory
35:33
for bigotry and he screams at Texas and he screams at the law and he screams at everyone everyone's yelling everyone his
35:39
family's crying everyone's yelling it's chaos Jack is taken away and he goes to
35:45
jail while he's in jail he works they work on his appeal because like he didn't have a fair trial because he had a crazy lawyer
35:51
and it was in Dallas he Jack Ruby is slowly actually kind of going crazy
35:56
while he's in all he's in jail as you would I imagine he imagines he thinks that thousands of Jews are being
36:03
punished for what he did and he imagines they can hear them being murdered on the floor below him so he's
36:09
like hallucinating he tries to die by Suicide a bunch he like grabs a light
36:14
while standing in water he tries to hang himself he's really worried for his family what he really really wants is
36:20
like take a lie detector and tell his story because he feels like he wasn't able to do that in his first trial yeah
36:25
um did you know that the guy who invented the lie detector also invented Wonder Woman
36:33
so he eventually does meet with the Warren Commission so the Warren Commission is like the um commission to
36:40
look into the death of JFK they give him his lie detector they do interview him
36:46
and talk to him again and again he says you just got to hear my story you understand it I just want it to be good for Jackie and the kids like you know
36:52
the stuff that he keeps saying to like make it sound like he's a hero
36:58
eventually his verdict is thrown out and he's granted a retrial after this everybody's written a book Judge Brown
37:03
wrote a book because his lawyer wrote a book you know Jack Ruby had like he didn't think he ever wrote his book but like people wrote books but now it's
37:10
1967 and he's about to have his retrial and he starts to feel kind of sick he goes to the doctor he has
37:17
all the cancers yeah he has lung cancer liver cancer he's riddled with cancer
37:22
Jack Ruby dies of an embolism on January 3rd 1967 in the same hospital that JFK
37:28
and Lee Harvey Oswald died in in Dallas that's so weird and that's it he never got retried in the wrong opportunity he
37:35
probably would have been been in jail forever maybe not death but I think while I understand being so angry and so
37:41
sad and so confused during that time like it must have been just like otherworldly confusing
37:47
into the right person who's at the right State of Mind whether it's epilepsy or it's the loneliness or it's the
37:53
schizophrenia in his family or it's whatever it is that like makes this person be like I I need to do this
37:59
because no one else will any other opportunity because he was like a guy's guy it was in there and knew everybody
38:05
I think he was just a loser who wanted to be important and want to feel like he was a somebody yeah
38:11
or or he was hired by the government to kill what's the conspiracy there's some
38:17
things that are like people are like oh I saw Holly Lee Harvey in Jeff Ruby's club and they were
38:24
Whispering you know you're like I don't know I don't think that's true the only part of the explanation that
38:29
would make any sense to me is like he was literally hired by the government to kill him because they're like they knew he had cancer already and was like We'll
38:36
wipe out all your debts and you can you're gonna die in a few years anyways it doesn't matter at least now you'll be famous yeah I don't think I think that's
38:43
wishful thinking you know but I also there's also another quote I think it's in the world report where he's like
38:50
can you believe that some nobody is now in history for killing the president you know who's that who said that Jack Ruby
38:57
about Lee Harvey Oswald oh so maybe he's a little bit like well I'm a nobody you know and like how do I
39:04
get to be besides having a cool podcast how do I get people to remember be forever oh he said he said it's hard to
39:11
realize that a complete nothing a zero like that could kill a man like President Kennedy you know such a weirdo
39:17
yeah because the only other time I can think of somebody killing somebody on life he was a dad who killed that guy
39:23
who like kidnapped his son remember that within like in a courtroom no they're Africa I don't know the exact
39:31
it's been a long time since I've seen that but like he the guy kidnapped the son took him to a different state and
39:37
then the police found out where he was they arrested him they're walking him through the airport and the dad of that kid pretend like he was off a pay phone
39:44
and then when he walked past and turn around and shot him in the head could you remember that in that case the
39:51
jury was like I mean it was filmed it was like yes you absolutely [ __ ] blew this guy's
39:59
brains out right on live television it was you for sure that did that and also
40:04
we're not gonna press we're gonna it was during all vacation like we you did it for the reason everybody else would do
40:10
it but I think they shouldn't do that the whole point of America is that you have a fair trial but also like yes also
40:16
yeah which totally cool that if you do but like it'll be one thing if Jackie had shot
40:21
Lee Oswalt right yeah putting some random nobody like it's just weird he's
40:28
like I'm doing this for you Jackie and I'm sure she was just like I don't want to know you I don't know I want nothing
40:33
to do with this exactly I just never come back to Dallas please yeah I wonder if Trevor did I doubt it
40:40
um cool well I know you have to go but I have a little bit of ending listener Mill for this email let's do it oh well
40:47
my first one was a mixed reaction on our split episodes which I shared their last our last half that I heard it take it or
40:52
leave it or uh you guys haven't seen excited about this so I kind of like it now I don't know let's see what happens
40:58
anyway um and then also I wanted to mention Brad my cousin Brad's email about Elon
41:04
Musk to you yeah he brought up some good points about that I couldn't bring up in the moment about Elon Musk and I want to
41:11
know if you wanted to talk about those would you have to talk about this so it feels so I need to go to my yoga thing
41:18
and it feels like we could probably talk about that for like 20 minutes Brad I really appreciate it later Brad I really appreciate the letter like there was
41:24
things that I actually texted Taylor about afterwards because I just didn't even know what those theories were the Ukraine one or the pro-russia one and
41:31
the Ancient Aliens one were the two that just totally threw me for a loop and we actually never squared away the
41:37
pro-russia one I don't think but anyways maybe we can save that for next week
41:43
yeah there's a lot to talk about it's it's like there's it's not it's not cut and dry so I'm gonna talk about more but
41:48
thank you Brad who also went to Tokyo and ate that Perpetual broth so and and
41:53
should we I also brought up with Taylor that I brought another idea for a
41:58
podcast for us which is a podcast that I'm intendedly titling changed my mind about dot dot and then every week we
42:06
have a topic that will throw out there that me and Taylor will debate our perspectives on
42:12
and I don't know if that would be interesting to people if it would be let us know because now that we split the
42:18
podcast up the time suck of doing it is actually wait I don't know what it's
42:23
like for you Taylor but for me it's like been way better because it's like I can do like two hours of editing once and I
42:29
can do two hours again later whereas like before and it was like half of Sunday was just happening and so this
42:34
kind of helps a little bit on that front but um I don't know I know the time is
42:40
short yeah and I think well I think our point is like we're in our bubbles you know and like everyone means well but if
42:46
you're stuck in a bubble like what do you know what don't you know I get told things by people on the left
42:54
and people on the right that are stated is pure unadulterated facts and it
42:59
absolutely still to this day and forever always will blow my mind it's like somebody I hear all the time and that's
43:07
why I was just like so weird like why does that person feel like that's true and why do they think I think it's true
43:14
and it happens on both sides I was like it would be so interesting to have like a breakdown of that Echo chamber anyway
43:20
yeah I do I do miss I miss being around people who care about politics
43:25
because I feel like I right now I'm like with me my husband but like my work is not politically based at all so like
43:30
[ __ ] happens in the world and I'm like anyone freaking out and they're like no and I'm like
43:36
and that's and that's the thing I've also realized now now that I'm pushing like what 11 years or something in politics I'm like you you get you just
43:44
stop thinking that intently intensely when when you're like oh I know the guys
43:49
who are making the decisions to do things that are happening it's like it doesn't impact you as much that impact
43:54
you it doesn't like weigh on you and I don't know I think I have a different perspective on it and maybe that's
44:00
interesting because like it's like the consequences versus the people like I wrote a quote by Michelle Obama where she was like well I can go to all these
44:06
like big dinners with all these famous people because when I get there I'm like you guys aren't that smart
44:12
essentially you know making these decisions and you have this Aura of you of being like amazing but when I get
44:18
there I'm like I mean all right I'm smelling people yeah but the ramifications I think are huge anyway go
44:25
to yoga everyone please follow us on social medium to fill a pod like and like and share tell your friends send us
44:31
suggestions we'd love to I'd love to be more International um I'd love to be more diverse and the
44:37
stories that we tell so anything oh my god oh no my book just fell but anything
44:42
that is a failure relationship invention person
44:48
anything tell us human consciousness in a fun way it was Lord
44:56
okay everyone have a great week namaste
45:01
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