Doomed to Fail

Ep 50: Let them have Portillo's: The saga of Marie Antoinette

Episode Summary

Back to basics with the doomed relationship of Marie Antoinette and King Louis the XVI of France! Our dear Marie was just a child when she was shipped to France to marry the future king. It takes a long time for her to have a baby, so she has an excellent time in the meantime. There are many diamonds, chateaus, literal big-wigs, gambling, operas, and even a pretend French village. All on the grounds of Versailles. Until, of course, she is executed for crimes against the nation. Learn more about this fascinating window into pre-revolutionary lavish life! Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/doomedtofailpod/   Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/doomedtofailpod   Youtube:  https://www.youtube.com/@doomedtofailpod  TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@doomed.to.fail.pod  Email: doomedtofailpod@gmail.com

Episode Notes

Back to basics with the doomed relationship of Marie Antoinette and King Louis the XVI of France! Our dear Marie was just a child when she was shipped to France to marry the future king. It takes a long time for her to have a baby, so she has an excellent time in the meantime. There are many diamonds, chateaus, literal big-wigs, gambling, operas, and even a pretend French village. All on the grounds of Versailles.

Until, of course, she is executed for crimes against the nation.

Learn more about this fascinating window into pre-revolutionary lavish life!

Pics via AI and Creative Commons

Some sources:

Marie Antoinette: The Journey by Antonia Fraser | Goodreads

Marie Antoinette: The Last Queen of France -  Évelyne Lever

Marie Antoinette (2006) - IMDb

Moberly–Jourdain incident - Wikipedia

What did Marie Antoinette Really Look Like? Her Portraits and Death Mask Brought to Life.

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/doomedtofailpod/  

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/doomedtofailpod  

Youtube:  https://www.youtube.com/@doomedtofailpod 

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@doomed.to.fail.pod 

Email: doomedtofailpod@gmail.com 

Episode Transcription

Hi Friends! Our transcripts aren't perfect, but I wanted to make sure you had something - if you'd like an edited transcript, I'd be happy to prioritize one for you - please email doomedtofailpod@gmail.com - Thanks! - Taylor

 

on Wednesday hi Taylor hello Faris how are you I'm doing very

very well it is a continuation of our Sunday and we are going to just trotting on them

um welcome to Doom to fail today we are covering the historical side of our Doom

to fail relationship event slash thing and Taylor is drinking an entire slice

of chocolate cake mixed within and blended with milk

and ice cream why do you think I well do you think I'd be doing that because you said you were doing that

20 minutes ago dang use your context clues who do you think I'm talking about

oh God okay so we're talking about Chicago um we're not talking about Chicago we're

not we're talking about cake oh oh you really threw me

uh oh I did oh it's okay um so it's got to be either Taft

um oh let them eat cake is it Marie Antoinette

yes wow really yeah good job well yeah

um so okay we're going back to apparently my favorite time period which is The Enlightenment and we're talking

Marie Antoinette and her husband Louis XVI this is a long and a good one and

there's so much stuff it's pretty fun so awesome um I I yeah I'm excited so I in 2020 I

read a ton of books because I had nothing else to do but I read Marie Antoinette the journey by Antonio Fraser

then and then this week I read Marie Antoinette the last queen of France by Evelyn levay and then I also watched the

Sophia Coppola movie from 2006 have you watched that 2006 no

with Kirsten Dunst I you know what's funny is whenever you mention it I pictured Kirsten Dunst but

I think it was because I was picturing Romeo and Juliet not Marie Antoinette she's she's not in that that's clear

days oh my God that is wait who's Kristen Dunson oh okay yeah no no clear clear

Danes man what happens she was in that show about the Middle

East and stuff that everybody loved with them

anyway I hope she's doing well I think she's fine she's married she's married to the guy who actually she's married to

the guy who played the cop in the TV show Hannibal

no way every story comes back to you she has nothing to that's not true because she

has nothing to do with this [Laughter]

and yet again yet again I've derailed another episode [Laughter]

um but anyway I remember seeing it in the theater and I was it ended and I was like what I was like

so mad and like I didn't love it but watching it again and knowing more about Marie Antoinette as a person I like it a

lot more Christian Jones did a great job because I'm showing her humanity and the things that she was really really good at and kind of her situation so I'll

talk a little bit more about what that means but I also um people other websites that if I told you

about them right now it would spoil so I'll put them in the show notes so when I'm researching like I've said

before and getting super into things I want to like think like that person for the week when I'm doing my lifetime worth of research in a week and do you

have you ever seen this I've seen it on Instagram it's like a Kurt Vonnegut quote about buying envelopes

um tell me the quote and I might know it so am I I'm not even looking up but the idea is that like he's like oh I need an

envelope and his wife is like you can go buy an envelope online and he's like no I want to go to the store I want to see people I want to

like romanticize little things in my life you know yeah makes sense um so like making the Small Things special

and if you are Marie Antoinette everything is special including you you

know yeah everything's a little bit magical everything is special so that's sort of the the vibe that she gives off

so Maria Antonia was born on November 2nd

1755 at the hoffburg palace in Vienna Austria so for reference Louis the 16th

um he was born on August 23rd 1754 so they're like he's a year older than her they're roughly similar in ages

um Marie Antonia that was her name before she was French she was the last daughter of Maria Theresa so Maria

Theresa was a one of the last hopsbergs in like that line of hopsbergs

who've talked about before and she ruled over Austria in like a bunch of different ways it's complicated they're

a war of Austrian secession all these things happening um when I was a dad isn't really in these

stories because her mom is so prolific she's just like someone who's trying to get her kids married off and she's doing

all these deals and she's really interested in like Austria and keeping that part of Europe strong she had 16

children three of them died in childhood and Marie Antoinette was the 15th

which is a lot of [ __ ] children um Maria Theresa said that if she was

not always pregnant she would have gone into battle herself which is cool and fun so that's the kind of mom that she

had yeah so this is similar to Kathleen the great um I'll bring her up a little bit more but Kathy mcgrade's mom was

very similarly trying to get her daughters married off and and you know grow the line and it's somehow the Holy

Roman Empire and Austria-Hungary and this is why like Napoleon could do things like have a sister be queen of

Naples because there's always a queen of Naples which is fun so Maria Theresa Marie

Antoinette's mom was married to Francis the First Holy Roman Emperor of all of their kids there were several Arts Arch

duchesses two Holy Roman emperors an Archduke

um and then Maria Carolina the Queen of Naples and Sicily there was a Duke of

baraskow and then there was Marie Antoinette who was the queen of France so she did pretty well for someone

trying to get her kids to have like good jobs yeah she seems uh

she really she had a plan for her kids yes exactly so a lot happens and Maria Antonia is

Promised Louis XVI when she is 14 and 1770. so her childhood was like

obviously very nice she lived in these like palaces in Vienna and she also met

Mozart when she was a child which is cute they were both kids when they met she was hard to teach and didn't really

want to learn but she could sing and dance so she was kind of like a spoiled rich kid for the most part but like not her fault

so a little bit more about like why what happened to Marie Antoinette

happened to Marie Antoinette and why what happened to Catherine the Great happened to Catherine the Great Catherine the Great was a little bit older she was born in 1729 but it's the

same idea you send your European wife to another European Russian whatever place to marry the the Monarch or the next in

line to hope to like preserve your line and move it on Marie Antoinette was like

very very young and she didn't really have that like political Acumen that Catherine the Great had Catherine the

Great went in and she was like I want to be Russian I want to learn the language I want to upgrade the society I want to

help the people she was smarter than her husband

were great yeah she did obviously killed no they didn't Kevin died when she was

old wait who is Sir Nicholas's wife no no that's way way way later oh okay

all right I also don't know history yeah keep going sorry oh my God it's our first episode we listened to our

episodes first so um so Marina Marie Antoinette has none of the qualities that Catherine the

Great had which is fine like people if if a 99.9 of people in the situation

would be like fine I'll like live in this Palace forever and kind of be sad but not worry about it when Catherine

the Great was like I'm going to be the ruler you know she has something special that Maria I have so there's a bunch of

people in this story um I'm gonna bring them up this is not in order but I'm just going to pull out some of the interesting Parts I think

the Doom to fail part is that arranged marriages during revolutions can go either way so either you're cathum the

great and you get your husband killed so you can rule or you marry Antoinette and you both die

this is like the time when people were like just sick of monarchies you know yeah yeah it's it seems like you just

have to pick the right husband either the guy that you can seam roll and take over or the idiot who gets you and your

kids killed or you're just like living a boring life at court forever which I don't know

okay I'm down with that I'd like to lay around and read all day yeah yeah so in 1770 Mariano is on her way to

France so she's still Maria on Antonia when she steps into France she's Marie Antoinette she has a little portrait of

Louis XVI and he's a little one of her so they like don't they haven't met obviously they have these little pictures of each

other a little paintings of each other um Louie is the next in line because his dad died and his grandfather is the king

his grandfather is like this guy who has like this like flamboyant mistress and he like loves

women and that's like a big thing and everyone knows it which is important that's just a grandpa so Maria today has

taken through the woods into a literal like a tent in the woods between Austria

and France it's on the border so she walks in as an Austrian and leaves French while she's in the tent they

change her they get rid of everything Austrian that she had on her and change her into all French clothes then she

walks through and she is French you know yeah it's very um

it's very ceremonial it sounds like yeah and everything is in the story

so which walks on the tent the king and Louis are there they say hello for the first time she is very formal in doing

the right thing she's like I'm so happy to be here like thank you everyone I'm so happy this is amazing she's 14. you

know she's being told to say these things he's a little bit indifferent probably a little scared but um

that's when they meet for the first time and they're married really quickly afterwards so

when after they get married they live at Versailles have you been to Versailles no no my cousin literally just came back

from France and went to Versailles said it was like it was stunning but I think you just had to say that it's like when everybody goes to the Louvre and says oh

my God the Mona Lisa was life-changing it's like was it or is it just like another thing that you have to say socially to be cool

I don't know I think Versailles actually stunning so I haven't been there either but we should go I we talked about this

a little bit with Lizzie Borden I think I brought it up because Lizzie Borden at her house there were no hallways like there are no hallways of

Versailles just like room after room after room you know yeah um when I was when I was just in Seattle

um I visited a co-worker's house and it was interesting because like his he was

doing a tour and like his bedroom had like a door to another room that

adored the stairs and I was like when was this thing built because I remember that they build houses that didn't have

hallways it looked like it was designed like that it looked like it was like two rooms that were supposed to be separate

that you had to walk through to get from one side of the next and then the house you know like the 1960s I was like I

didn't know it was like that weird of a concept I have hallways back then but maybe it was I don't think so yeah

that's weird yeah but yeah but that's what that's what it's like in Versailles everything is very public you have to walk through everyone's stuff so

yeah it's a lot it used to be a hunting lodge which is like in air quotes it was

always like very beautiful palace and then um Kings as they as they were living there they built more things on it and

it got bigger and bigger it's 11 miles from Paris so it's not very far from Paris it's kind of close and

it has 2 300 rooms and it's 679

784 square feet she's very big yeah

um so and it has to be big because like a [ __ ] ton of people live there there's courtiers who have small apartments that

are like worse than their apartments in pal in Paris but they're like grateful to have them there's dukes and such that

have a larger set of rooms then there's an infrastructure to keep that so if I'm like fars Duke of Austin come stay with

me at Versailles you're like totally that sounds great here are my 10 people I'm bringing with me you know like the

dude who dresses me the dude who Shines My Shoes the dude who does this you know so there's so many people involved and

you have to feed everyone and there's kids everywhere so it's very crowded in there it's like it's like a city it's so

wasteful in Versailles yeah well yes exactly so it's not like there isn't any

pump and ceremony in Austria there totally is it's also very beautiful she also lived in the palace but France is

something different it's like really like high high high pomping ceremony so one of the people

that she meets almost immediately is and annoy and listen I'm gonna try my best with these so I listen to the book so I

have a kind of idea how they pronounce them but denoi is d e

so she's the contest de denoi there we go she's a first lady and

waiting for the queen so she knows all the rules so in the morning when Marie Antoinette wakes up there's like this

crazy dressing ceremony where there's like 20 women in the room and the hand her each piece is closing clothing one

by one because it's like an honor to do that like oh some iron handed your sock you know things like that so there was

no privacy in Versailles everyone was there um become test annoy was

kind of a covering over over everything Marie Antoinette called her Madame etiquette because she knew all the rules

and like really really stood by all the rules um just to mention later she will be

guillotined this place this place like it reminds me of like the warmth and comfort you'd

experience at the beast's mansion and Beauty and the Beast like it is it's exactly that yeah stupid over the top

like yes not cozy at all no it's not cozy absolutely I feel like

you're pretty uncomfortable because your clothes are uncomfortable there's people everywhere there's dope smells like [ __ ]

everywhere too it definitely smells terrible there is I didn't write this down but there is one

thing that um one dude goes to America and he comes

back and he's like hey do you guys know that the women in America wash themselves with soap he's like this they

smell pretty good what on Earth are you talking about horses everywhere you know yeah so

Versailles crazy um on their wedding night after the wedding like ceremony party itself

everyone's in the in the bedroom with them so like tons of people Duke duchesses courtiers everyone's there the

ceremony is the king gives a pair of pajamas to Louis the 16th and then well

I guess he's not the 16th yet but to Louie and then the top lady in the in the monarchy gives pajamas to Marie

Antoinette they get to change in private then they get to sit in the they sit in the bed together in their PJs and

everybody sees them and the King's like good luck and everybody cheers and then they have to see them together in bed

like that's a huge part of it and then they close the curtains and everybody leaves and continues to have a party and now they're left alone

these two like a 14 year old and a 15 year old in bed together were they supposed to do it or

yes they're supposed to have kids like immediately and um they do not they do not have sex on that first night they

don't have sex for a while um it's weird with guys like this like with Peter III with a Catherine mcgrade's husband like

they also didn't have sex for a while and it sounds like everyone around them was having sex like maybe not in front

of them but like his friends all knew what was going on but maybe they were like pretending maybe they embarrassed

these guys and like they didn't ask the right questions because they just like don't

necessarily know what to do you know yeah

they're kids they just assume that they would know how so it sounds like there might have been I think this is the same

for Peter III that it is for Louis that like an operation might have helped like a little bit of like a foreskin

operation that would have made them be able to like excuse me like actually have sex but

either way they just like don't know what they're doing um so Louis he like loves

um locks and keys he does all his like nerdy stuff he doesn't really talk to her but he's nice to her

um and he could be worse he could be Peter III who's like actively the worst remember he was a wet noodle from a long time ago so

um while she's waiting to be useful meaning have a baby she wants to go to Paris so she sneaks out and goes to like

masked balls in the city she loves the theater she does little performances so she like will put on a play she put on

um The Marriage of Figaro sometime later in in her life so she sings and she dances she loves to party she loves to

gamble so Marie Antoinette will play cards until dawn um so she'll Gamble and she has all this

money and she just has like jewels and stuff and Louie's okay with that he like he like loves her in his way he's like

this is my wife it's not like he's sleeping with anybody else he gives her gifts he's just like not really into her or maybe anyone that

way she buys things like she buys diamond bracelets that cost the same as like a mansion in Paris there's a lot of

diamonds in this story crazy um this is also it's so stupid and this is also when she meets Leonard a twee

who's the hair guy he's the guy who with her together they invented the big hair big hair big hair thing which is great

so like the higher and higher hair stuff that's like obviously that you think of when you think of her she did it with this hairdresser guy it's called the

beach beehive right no it's like way more than a beehive like a beehive is something you can do

with like your own hair in the 60s but her thing it's like you know three feet above your head that's like and

everyone's hair was like powdered and white you know because it's still the um you know like how like at the same

time as like George Washington his hair was powdered you know like the big wigs

if these pictures do are just us I think they're close and I'll tell you

how I know that later but um she another thing with the hair that I was thinking as an aside is like have

you ever done like a exfoliating face mask on your face

what what do you think of the answer of that what do you think the answer to that is just out of curiosity every

night every night um so if you do once I've done them before like some different colors you know depending on what's in it you know

what I mean but when you put on like a white clay mask and you smile your teeth look terrible because you're like my

teeth ever your teeth against actual Pure White like they're not white you know yeah and I'm just imagining that

like they don't talk about this but like everyone's teeth which have just looks yellow and terrible because they have like powdered white skin and powdered

right here and these beautiful dresses but they're like Teeth must have been like gross yeah I can imagine for the most

part that's what I'm imagining so eventually

Louis and Marie Antoinette do have sex and it is

um getting awkward because his brother has a baby with his wife the contest de Provence and that's her sister-in-law so

that baby is next in line so everyone's really really mad at Marie Antoinette and she's like I don't know what to do

I'm in bed with this man like nothing's happening and he does tell someone that he does have he does manage to

get hard and then like be with her for like two minutes

but then he like pulls out and doesn't ejaculate that's not how babies are made

yeah it's not going to cut it so whatever happens guess how long it took them after they got married to finally have sex

uh uh seven years that's not a happy marriage

no it's a long time so she's finally she's super happy she's like writing to her mother because her

mom was like you have to have a baby you know so she's like we finally had sex and she gets pregnant she has a baby

it's a girl her first baby which you know is a bummer but another like ridiculous pump and and ceremony thing

is when she has a baby everyone is there because they need to see the umbilical cord attached to the baby attached to

the mom to prove that he's like there you know so crazy like when I had my babies I was like I would

like the nurse of the doctor and my husband please like nobody else I know but if people like want to have their families there which is fine but like

50 people crowding in the room that's bad but if flow was the heir to like California

you know you'd have to then I guess I guess and be like she's mine oh yeah that's

right you know yeah physically see it um she does she Branch passes out and

they make everybody leave the room and then later Louis changes it where you don't have to have that many people in the room which is very nice because you

know 850 people in the room to do that her life seems Seems fun but also a nightmare

yes exactly so other stuff is happening but eventually she does have four children

so Marie Therese is her first daughter she's born in 1778. she

actually lives until 1851 so she lives to be to be a little bit older then there is she has a son named Louis

Joseph Xavier Francois he dies in childhood childhood he dies when he's

about eight years old he was a very sickly and then she has another son who's Louis the 17th and he also died

when he was young he died when he was about 10 and she had another daughter who was born in 1786 who died after a

year so two of her boys live into childhood one infant dies and then her

first daughter does live for a long time so a lot of babies die during this time the

French Revolution definitely had a part of this as well so it's in the Marie Antoinette movie it

was like wrong about the number of kids she had which is weird because it's like a difference of three and four and

the ending was also like oversimplified it but still like um one thing that the movie with Kirsten

Dunst I think does that like I didn't appreciate the first time I saw it's like Maria it was a really good mother she really wanted a youth her kids she

wanted to you know feed them herself and spend time with them usually in this

time like you just didn't do that so she really was a good mom so

before and during this time it was like 10 years we're just having kids here is a non-sequential list of interesting

[ __ ] that happened during this time so the current King was a grandfather to Louis XVI he has a mistress

named Madame Dewberry and there's an interesting tension between Madame DeBerry and Marie Antoinette Dewberry

was from a poor family she was a sex worker but the king liked her so much that he had her marry someone at court

so that she could be around wow which is ridiculous her husband was like you need

to be nicer to the king so that we can have more stuff so it was definitely like she would be with the King and then the husband yeah all the things So

eventually she was presented at court as a king's mistress and the first time

they tried to present her she was so nervous she broke her ankle running away but eventually she lived in apartments

with a secret tunnel to the King which happens a lot in Versailles there's like secret tunnels to different people's

apartments different people's rooms so she's living in apartments with tunnels to the king she ends up living a really

fancy life she's friends with Voltaire she's sort of just like at court having a blast and

Marie Antoinette when she gets there she's like I don't want to talk to her like she's like a harlot she's not

someone that I want to associate with right and the king is like you you have to talk to her she's my girlfriend and

it's like creating a lot of tension in the palace So eventually on New Year's Day 1772 Marie Antoinette goes up to

Madame Dewberry and says there are many people at Versailles today and then walks away but that was enough to make

her happy right so she wouldn't be like as exiled so the king he dies in 1774. he died of

smallpox he didn't think he had smallpox because he thought he had it when he was young so they thought that like he was

immune to it and then also later like Louis XVI gets inoculated to small box they're doing that now and he gets like

the vaccine quote but the king is like gosh if I didn't know any better I think I had smallpox

but like no one tells him he has smallpox because they're like embarrassed because he thought that he

had he was a kid and he eventually dies of that and Marie Antoinette becomes the king of France and Louis becomes Louis

XVI the king of France yeah so you just said Marie Antoinette Marie

becomes the queen of France okay yep got it got it yeah so King Louie has some metals and metal

some ants um in the movie they're like it's Molly Shannon and then another lady who played

um Moaning Myrtle in Harry Potter and they're just like one was gossiping and you know tons of tons of Gossip they're

cute but they um one of the ants dies having her tenth child and they described it as like there was just

blood everywhere which is wow gross and terrifying so politically and socially

France is falling apart so you might remember there's been this is a revolutionary time France gives Aid to

the Americans people are starting to say things like maybe we should share the wealth the way the king spent money is

crazy like Marie Antoinette had a coffer of money that was like her allowance but she overspent it constantly and it was

like you know having like a million dollars a month it's like when you see these celebrities get divorced and the

um alimony is like 600 000 a month and you're like it's crazy what yeah I just

did that I think yeah that's that's bananas you shouldn't that much but that's how much money she

is she's spending just so much money there's also a weird thing which or a surprise surprise rich people are not

taxed so that makes poor people really mad because it should

um the French people are starving so they're in 1775 there's a flower War

flower like f-l-o-u-r war and people like they can't

price of bread is going up they are just like literally Starving in the streets this is where they say

that she said let them eat cake and the idea of being like them being like you know your majesty

the people of France of France are starving they don't have any bread and she looked around and her room is like full of cakes and she's like well let

them have cake you know okay I was gonna say I heard there's a

little rumor yeah she didn't really say that but that's the idea that she's like so just drowning in food you know while people

are starving and like doesn't really understand so people are starving and pissed um also just as an aside she's very

Catholic and she's still going to mass all the time so she's really like stays really religious her family from her brother's a Holy

Roman Emperor they're in Austria they are trying to keep their power and grow their power so there's some people that

are like kind of scheming to have Marie Antoinette have

more of a political leaning kind of like Catherine the Great but she just doesn't have that like bone in her body

um this entire time there is a man named constant mercy and he has been by Marie

Antoinette's side the whole time he came from Austria he whispers things to her she confides in him and he is in

constant contact with her mother and so sometimes she'll like tell him a secret and he'll tell her mom so there's this

person who always has Austria on his you know on his brain trying to do stuff for Maria Therese and

she just trusts people because she doesn't understand these political deals and this thing that she's a part of like she doesn't understand what's going on

in Europe she doesn't really like just she doesn't really think about it you know right it's just kind of being used

by a lot of people her brother Emperor Joseph II is the Holy Roman Emperor he's very involved in like her and Louis not

having sex he's like you have to do this you have to have a baby and um he needs to do things for Austria

there's a war of Austrian secession in this time but he visits Marie Antoinette everside she's always really happy to

see him so he's like The Sibling that she's like again after this I don't think she sees maybe any of her others

um she also has a couple girlfriends like her ladies in waiting so there's the princess Dylan ball who's her best

lady in waiting um there she's always around they're partying together they're gambling they're going to Paris they're creating

their plays and musicals they're like always together she also has a friend named The Duchess of polyak and so she's

a little bit sassier people don't really love her being with um being with her but she's like no she's so fun I'd like love to be around

her so she's one of her favorite friends as well so she has these friends she has her

family kind of meddling in her business she does really really love her kids I think I

said this before I jumped my gun but she wants to be with her kids more a lot of

the tradition in this time was like you'd have a child and you kind of like give it to tutors until it was like 10

you know and then you would like take it and get to know it but she really wanted to be with them she also adopted some

kids to be with her kids adopted in air quotes as well basically

a hundred percent she had like a poor girl follow her her daughter around and they would do all the same things they would like wear the same clothes and

learn the same things to keep her humble which is weird um she also had an enslaved child named

John emilkar and she really he was from Senegal and she

sent him to boarding school and paid for him to go to boarding school until when she died then they couldn't pay for that

anymore and he ended up like on the streets and he became an artist and he died pretty young but so she had like a bunch of kids around

um her daughter did not like her she's like a very very haughty and like not very nice to her so

there's like a story where someone was like oh your mother like she's you know could be

um something could happen and she could die and my daughter was like I wouldn't care you know and they were like what do

you know what death is and she's like yeah it means you don't see them again I wouldn't care my dad loves me more than my mom so even though

yeah I think that she you know really I truly believe she wanted to be a good mother um so but her daughter was kind of a

brat so her first son he died when he was like five or he was eight but when

he was eight he weighed 16 pounds which is huge no big oh when he was eight

years old yes yeah

my eight-year-old was 50 pounds and she's small you know like he was super sick like super wasting away and he

passed away when he was young so she's you know she has another son who who's going to be her son for who's gonna be

around until he's 10 but he does like later so she's still spending money at one point this is fun ambassadors from

India come to visit and so they never really seen like they've never seen people dressed like this that people of

Versailles have never like smelled Indian food cooking before and like no

one will try it they're scared we're just like makes sense and fun yeah and so she really really like loves

the way these ambassadors from India look and so she has Madame Tussaud like of the wax

museum make um like Wax mannequins of them so she can keep that Versailles and always see them

pretty cool like the real Madame Tussaud is in the story yeah she was that old

yeah um so it seems like everything was pretty

hectic she gets at one point I mean people in France are starving and Louis buys a chateau for her which is like you

know a bigger house than like you've ever seen so she can like go somewhere and be calm and get away from Versailles with her kids

she also on the grounds of Versailles makes a fake French Village in 1777.

it's part of the garden yeah they built houses and had Farms they were real gardeners real animals

she would wear simple dresses and kind of like walk around her little town there's like defense that she wasn't

like pretending to be poor but she was like trying to have like the Simplicity of it I don't know and like

it definitely wasn't real like there was a barn but inside the barn it was a ballroom you know and she

would like be like oh let's get some goats let's have them all be brown with one dot you know she could like pick

things that like a farmer can't pick you know what I mean I thought the reason why she did that was because that was her only way to try and experience what

normal life was like I don't know if she was trying to like experience a life of a normal person

I think she's trying to simplify her life but maybe that's the same thing yeah maybe

I don't know so spent a lot of time there I now have a side quest for us

this is one of my favorite Side Stories did you say boo to a side quest no I

said ooh let's see oh okay so

okay perfect so I'm gonna tell you about the time skip of the Moberly Jordan incident have you

ever heard of this probably not uh it sounds like a haunting but I doubt it is

kind of so on August 10 1901 two British teachers Charlotte Ann Moberly and

Eleanor jourdain went to Versailles they were living in they were British school

teachers one of them was living in Paris and they were like you guys should get to know each other because you're going to work together so she went to visit

they went to Versailles itself and it was they were like like you said like

yeah yeah we get it it's pretty they didn't love it and they decided to go to another building but it was closed so

they're kind of wandering around The Gardens of Versailles and then one of them said quote everything suddenly

looked unnatural therefore unpleasant even the trees seemed to become flat and lifeless like Woodworks in a tapestry

there were no effects of light and shade and no wind stirred the trees so they're walking and things are like kind of

feeling weird then they see a little cottage and a woman is in the window waving a handkerchief at them they see two men

dressed like really really nicely and they told them to like oh continue on walk down this

path they ended up in a part of a garden and there was a bench and on the bench was a man and he had like a face that was

pockmarked from smallpox and he looked at them and they felt like crazy Terror like he was evil and then

they kept walking past him and they walked over a bridge and there was another man with another fancy hat and he showed them away to the house they

were looking for on their way over the bridge one of them saw a woman with like big blonde hair and a white

dress sketching in the garden so when they got back

but I kind of talked about it like that was weird you know like what was all that what did we see and they went back

to Versailles again and they couldn't find the bench and they couldn't find the bridge so they

they wrote a book about it called an adventure and they published it like under pseudonyms but they said that like

they saw ghosts like that was Marie Antoinette and that was like people from the 16 the 18th century like being there

and so obviously people like critique them and thinks that they're lying or they accidentally walk into a costume party or something but I think it's fun

to think that maybe they like accidentally walked into Mariano like in her little village um one of the critiques called it a a

lesbian foliado which made me laugh because like

I don't even know who knows if they're lesbians but a lesbianfolio is hilarious two women do together that

was like where the lesbians they're too expensors living together so

maybe they were you know like they were roommates that means they were lesbians but either way that's not the point the point is that it's funny to call people

that it could have been a fancy dress party but anyway I hope it's true that'll be fun they'll be really cool

yeah I love it anyway so that's that time skip so

the French people are getting mad they're seeing all this money that she's spending there's an affair with a

diamond necklace where there's this really really expensive necklace that has like 600 diamonds on it it's like

more expensive than anything ever Madame Dewberry had wanted it at one point but someone dressed like a fancy person

goes to these Jewelers and says Marie Antoinette wants this necklace but it has to be a secret so she could pay you

in installments but she definitely wants it but don't tell anyone because everyone's mad and then that woman also gets a cardinal

from the church whom Marie Antoinette does not like to help her with that so the woman is like cardinal let's go meet

the queen in the garden he meets this woman who says she's Marie Antoinette mangarden and says please get

this necklace for me I promise I'll like help I'll pay for it but it's not her it's all like a scam and so I don't know

what anybody looks like really yeah and it's like dark and like whatever it could have been anyone you

know so everyone loses money the Jewelers are like what do we do like we have to be paid for this you know and they like go to the queen and she's like

I don't know what you're talking about and there's a trial and she's really mad because she's like going to ruin my reputation and it totally does people

like think that she did the same to like try to discredit this Cardinal and all these things it's not good

it was interesting so sentiment is bad because of that

because of the village because of the Chateau because of all these things another thing that's happening is she does have an affair with a Swedish

um dude or dude but he's like a military guy named Axel Von ferson the younger

AKA found person count ferson so I'm calling person he had been to America from to help in the Revolutionary War in

1774 he went to Versailles and at a party he and Maria Antoinette talked for a while he didn't know who she was so

that's like he was like this woman's great and like they just like he didn't realize that she was the queen and he

came back four years later and and she saw him and she said oh you're an old friend like she remembered meeting him you know

because he was cute and like he made her feel sexy and he would be in and out of her life forever for the rest of her

life some people think that her last two kids are actually ferson's kids and not Louis XVI some people are like oh yeah

some people are like oh they're just really good friends which is so stupid because like who cares like it's been 300 years you

know so but um like he had rooms below hers that

were connected so tons of tunnels connecting him to her in the 1800s his family had a bunch of his letters and he

sold them but they were heavily edited like people had crossed out like big paragraphs of them which you don't do as

not a love letter you know right and um he tried to save her a few times there's

Letters From First into his sister that are like ugh I just love this woman so much I don't know what to do he also was

like a real Pro monarchy guy he thought that like kings were appointed by gods just like being around her was like

magical for him as well you know yeah um the king knew or

whatever but I don't but he you know I don't think he like particularly like cared

too much he just was like content to like do his do his own thing and he was also

sleeping with other people no he wasn't but he just wasn't into it

okay yeah it wasn't to it yeah I think he was asexual you know he just like it just

was it wasn't his Jam which is fine he didn't so he was like okay I know my wife needs needs this so

After the Revolution people found his rooms under his bed and they were like under her under her bed under her her

rooms like the secrets and stuff and they were like oh interesting you know it was very clear that they were like he

was sneaking around um other things that happened Lafayette is there so uh Lafayette who was you know

the French guy who came to America to help George Washington he goes back to help with the French Revolution but he wants to compromise he's like you know

the the friend France is like we want to totally abolish the monarchy Lafayette is like we think we can make compromise

have a constitutional monarchy like Britain like let's try to figure this out in 1789 in July the best deal is

stormed so yeah yeah a lot of that but there's like a ton of um unrest a ton of riots this

is an Insurrection they storm the best deal which is a jail in Paris and they let everybody out so this is like the

regular folks who are who are having the revolution from the Bastille and in that like they're killing people and putting

their heads on sticks so it's like a very brutal day um in October 1789 they come in a storm

Versailles so this sounds like very very scary like so it's the middle of the night and they do this in in the film I

think well because you have a feeling it's the middle of the night she doesn't know who her kids are she doesn't know where Louie is because everyone's in separate bedrooms there's all these

corridors there's all these secret passages and people are starting like running up to Versailles they even have

a hard time closing the doors because the Versailles had never been closed people would just

kind of welcome to come in and out you know so they like try to lock the doors it's chaos

everyone's crying Lafayette comes and tries to help them but they get end up getting taken to Paris so but while

they're still at Versailles kind of the last time that she's there the the crowd yells they want to see the queen because

she goes out in the balcony with her children and they say no children we just want to see you so she sends the

kids back in and she does a bow to them and a couple people are like bring her to Paris and look at some people are

like long live the queen because they kind of like that like bow that she did to them but bringing the Bears killer

though yes but not for a few years since she's

essentially under arrest for um treason and conspiracy and for

spending all of the country's money spent a lot of money she contributed

yes so they have a few chances to escape but they like

don't they don't want to leave France that would be seen as like terrible nobody trusts her because of her Austria

connection so I don't know how much she actually knew that she was like passing information to Austria but she was constantly doing that because the people

around her were like kind of betraying her and sent telling stuff to other countries in Europe

they have a plot to escape where they um at one point they like dress like

their peasants and get into a carriage and they ride for a couple days under the countryside and then they eventually get caught and have to go back but

before they left Louis XVI wrote a letter on his desk that was on his desk that said like [ __ ] you I never would

have compromised with you I hate you all or something really hilarious um and then when he got caught and brought back he was like I didn't mean

that letter which is so funny

um this whole time person is like helping her trying to help her um get out of it um he thinks that she dies a

couple times she sends them a letter that just says I exist and I love you you know just trying to do it they try to skip a couple times

definitely they're prisoners they have to um you know things are starting to change

like she does have obviously she has her ladies and waiting there with her Louie's sister is there with them so they're not alone yet but things are

like drastically different so at one point Marie Antoinette is in like her room in this prison which is probably like more beautiful than any room I'd

ever be in but one of the guards is talking to her and he kind of gets tired and he sits on the edge of her bed to talk to her and she's just like what is

happening you know that's just something that would be like you would get your head cut off for doing that ever Psy so it's just things are starting to change

it goes on for years and the people taunt her whenever she's out like they like bring her from building the building to like question her people

will like run past the carriage with like little tiny Guillotines and like wave them in the air at her

this is dork dark the king won't succeed

um secede they're like he's like no I can't like he can't do it he had opportunity issue he could have saved his family but he like didn't because he

wanted to save the monarchy so while they're still living together as a family in this prison Madame lumbal

which is her first lady in waiting she was like Marie Antoinette's best friend is taken in guillotined so here's what

they do to her they take her head and they put it on a stick and they bring it to the jail to show Marie Antoinette the

head of her friend so some people say that insane so that they say they heard a

scream from the window but it was actually the jailer's wife and Marie Antoinette never actually saw the head some say that the head had like her her

hair was just like matted and covered in blood and you couldn't really tell it was her so there's a rumor that they took the head to a hairdresser and had

her hair fixed so that Marie Antoinette could know could recognize her somehow that's even more of a task

no it's gross and then her body they ripped off all of her clothes left her

naked body on the street and ripped her heart out Jesus like Jesus okay so like when we talk about

like people in like the ancient past being brutal like this was not too long ago

yeah it did this to her so other people that were they were with died um other

people who were guillotined Madame Dewberry was the the past King's mistress the contest denoi was she was

the one that was the band of etiquette um reachment sister-in-law Elizabeth de

France she was guillotine as well so a lot of people are dying they get sent to a dungeon there's no

servants she wants to be with her children she tries to teach some things um eventually the king knows that it's

over so you know lots of reasons where they get to it but the king is going to be going to be killed obviously robes

Pierre is there he's the guy who like loves the guillotine and was like responsible for tons of beheadings and

he spends the king spends an evening with his family he says he'll come back in the morning but he doesn't he changes

his mind because someone tells him it'd be too hard for him to go back and see them again so he doesn't he leaves her a ring and he has a lock of her hair and

by 10 a.m on September 21st 1792 he is killed by guillotine yeah when she heard

the when Marie Antoinette from jail Heard the Bells announcing that he had been killed she bowed to her son who was

technically the new king but um he was never officially King it's like you don't want that roll

now son yeah I think things are bad

so then they took her kids which is so sad because she really loves her kids like I just she like they would take her

son and she could hear him but she couldn't see him so she would spend all day trying to like peek to the bars of

her prison just to like see her son she just like missed him so much um her daughter was eventually sent away

after all the deaths and she was exiled in the back and then exiled again like I said she lived to be like 60. but

this son for [ __ ] sake is what I wrote so this second son of hers the one who was Louis technically Louis the 17th of

France but he was never actually um King he was 10 years old when they're in this prison

and his he gets this tutor who's this like they call them an alcoholic cobbler

which is not the kind of person you want to be teaching your child and he sort of

hold the the boy to like say bad things about

his mom so he wanted to say like he said he was like say horrible things about your mother and I guess the jailers

caught the boy like touching himself because he's like a 10 year old boy and they

made him say and like made him believe essentially that his mom and his aunt

would like watch him masturbate and like lay in bed with him when he did that which is not true so Marie Antoine was

like that's not true like you can make a kid say anything you know and they were like telling him these terrible things about his mother but they made they kind

of spread that rumor which also made one of her um charges incest jeez

and yeah and so maybe he believed that it happened but like he was a kid and like they asked his sister did it happen

and she was like it absolutely didn't happen but then she also like is

part of this like real world so she's like if my brother said it happened maybe it did because he it was more than

me because he's a boy you know like stuff like that like so I was like believe believe children of course but

also they made him do this and also like in a situation where

the entire country and now everybody in power is saying that like you and your

family are the bad ones you're gonna align yourself with power right

yeah exactly so in her last letter um she did she forgave her son she was

like they can he's just a child you know she loved him so much um now she's alone in a dungeon for a

while um she has a girl named Rosalie who is her like only servant she doesn't

servant she reads books she prays she cries she doesn't eat she loses like a bunch of weight she

um is 37 but they say that she looks like she's like 60. you know her hair turns Gray she's kind of wasting away in

there um count ferson tries to help her but he can't he just cannot help her um there's a thing that happens where

She's accused of sending messages via flower petal that she was writing like messages in a flower to someone else

it's called the Carnation Affair so she was like being you know told about other things or kind of accused other things

in the in the interim So eventually the three big things that Marie Antoinette

is tried on are conspiring with foreign powers the the depletion of the State

Treasury and of committing high treason by acting against the security of the French state so she was kind of kind of

incest but not really she said I'm a mom I would never do that and then all the women who happen to be there were like

oh my God totally so they threw it out because it actually got her some sympathy because she was like look what they're trying to do to my son you know

right trying to do that um she might have Commit she might have actually committed treason so like one

book says that she did it's kind of complicated so like she was they were trying to save their version of France

so they were like trying to get help from foreign powers to save the monarchy so that's treason against the revolution

technically you know you would expect them to do because if

they're not successful to get beheaded yes exactly so she had no no chance in

this so on October 17th 1793 she's convicted and sentenced to death she writes a

letter to her sister-in-law who isn't dead yet asked for forgiveness she's wearing a simple white dress and a bonnet when they come to get her they

cut off her hair all the way to the neck so they cut her hair really short which makes sense because I feel like hair will get in the way of guilloting

someone and be gross so they cut her hair they put the Bonnet back on and they take her to the scaffolds where

this is gonna happen the Executioner his name is Charles Avery Sanson he's someone who is an

executioner I think he also guillotined the king and on the way up the steps she

accidentally steps on his foot and she looks at him and she says pardon me sir I didn't mean to and those are her last

words well she was taken to the scaffold at 12 15 she was

beheaded but held up her head and yelled long live the republic she was buried in a poor section of

Paris but before she was buried be people who worked at the at the um

Cemetery were on lunch break and badam to sew snuck in and took her death mask

so we do technically know what she looked like because we have the death mask of Marie Antoinette The Madame

tussa herself made it's super cool I know you asked me

about this is what she really looked like so if you compare the death mask to the paintings there's a little bit of

obviously stylization in the paintings with her nose a little more like hooked than it is in the paintings but it's

pretty close and there's a website called royalty now that takes like death masks and paintings and descriptions

into account and tries to say like what people really did look like um so I think the I think that the

paintings are pretty close yeah I would say so looking at the depth mask

yeah um after the the revolution Louie's brother becomes king and he moves her

body which is just bones and a little bit of hair and clothes to to The Basilica Cathedral of Saint Dennis and

Saint Denis I'm sure Saint Denis St Denis France and it is 18 miles from

Versailles and that's where she is buried today with Louise so is she a tragic figure or

I think she's tragic and that she was just a little girl put into a she didn't know any better you know and then you

can say like sure she should have known better but also everyone's telling you that you're super special everyone is confiding you with things everyone's

kind of keeping her in a I don't know they're kind of keeping her

in a Perpetual state of like do this oh just oh you just eat you just drink you

just have fun you just do these things no big deal without kind of scheming around her to do other things and things are happening that she doesn't

understand and she doesn't take interest in them so like that's her fault she

could have taken more interest in them but also like you know what you know yeah

you feel like super dialed in I think to even know what's pay attention yeah

yeah you have to be Catherine the Great and she wasn't Catherine the Great but like no one is so yeah yeah

I've always uh kind of looked at it as a kind of like a probably an unfair telling it is a story of excess that it

is nice to look at and say oh well the rich ones are the shitty evil horrible people and that's true in a lot of cases

but there's people who are kind of born into things and circumstances and they're no more at fault for their

ignorance than someone who was born into poverty is for their property yeah

yeah I agree she's not she's not that that's a meat cake villain for sure exactly exactly yeah

awesome yeah let's uh that was a really well researched well done episode and I'm

gonna also call out of the Marines Antoinette piece of it so they're again that other show that I always harp on um

you're wrong about also did like a three-part series on Marie Antoinette as well and that's outside of this episode

that's the only other place I've like learned about her in her history um so that's also a good good listen too

for more historical context in case spokes yeah

totally and the books I read are actually great like the Marie Antoinette the journey by Antonio Frazier is so

good it's like I minute by minute you're you're terrified when she's in the jail you

know she's gonna die the next day and you're so sad for her and you're so worried and like all these things so it

really is it really is great um would you link to that and I have a

would you go by um guillotine I actually think yes it sounds it sounds

kind of nice because it happens so fast I think much rather Guillotine than like a dude with

an ax like you know you don't you don't see it right because you're head down

yeah your head's out I think both cases your head's down but your head's down and it happens like in half a second and your head falls

into the basket you know but like the ax guy can like [ __ ] up and like it's

cut your shoulder or like maybe it takes six times you know what I mean if you get a bad ax guy so I think I think a

guillotine I mean that's what it was made for right to like speed up that process right

here ended up being guillotined himself good I'm not sad this is the guy who

yeah Maximilian Robespierre the man who loved being guillotined

oh he doesn't love people yeah there you go yeah he loved Guillotines I think he I

think he gets canteen anyway he's someone we could talk about later at length as well because he is crazy

yes yes the French luckily has a rich history of crazy crazy people

um well Taylor thanks for thanks for sharing do we have any listener mail

um no I have a couple people have reached out and said they've been listening which is super fun and

I sent some stuff about our email list so hopefully people can join that you

know if you don't get the push notifications if you just want to like know what we're up to and kind of pick what you what your what you're um

listening to um you can do that and that's all going to be in the show notes and on our website and everything so yeah please

continue to listen give us ideas we love them and thank you so much right doom

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gmail.com sweet awesome thanks everyone thanks Taylor have a safe trip to San Diego

oh thank you [Music]