We're going down to Australia to check in on the child killers John and Sarah Makin. The Makins ran a 'Baby Farm', which sounds charming but is not even close. These two would procure a baby, and then... well you'll just have to learn more about the procurement and the bad things in the episode! Make sure to share and tell a friend! Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/doomedtofailpod/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/doomedtofailpod Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@doomedtofailpod TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@doomed.to.fail.pod Email: doomedtofailpod@gmail.com
We're going down to Australia to check in on the child killers John and Sarah Makin. The Makins ran a 'Baby Farm', which sounds charming but is not even close. These two would procure a baby, and then... well you'll just have to learn more about the procurement and the bad things in the episode!
Make sure to share and tell a friend!
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/doomedtofailpod/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/doomedtofailpod
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@doomedtofailpod
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@doomed.to.fail.pod
Email: doomedtofailpod@gmail.com
Hi Friends! Our transcripts aren't perfect, but I wanted to make sure you had something - if you'd like an edited transcript, I'd be happy to prioritize one for you - please email doomedtofailpod@gmail.com - Thanks! - Taylor
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[Music] in a matter of the people of State of California versus Ortho James Simpson case number ba-09
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fellow America [Music]
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it is Wednesday happy Wednesday everyone hope you all are having a great week so far it is almost the weekend
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sort of uh we are back and we are doing another episode of Doom to fail this
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time we're going to go into the True Crime section of this which is also kind of historic this time because if you remember from Monday my timeline of my
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story and the timeline of Taylor's story of Krakatoa erupting are pretty much completely in sync with one another so
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here we are uh Taylor I still don't believe you and I can't wait to hear exactly what it says
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I could possibly have it on the same day this is a long con uh let's see okay so
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I'm still drinking my big old glass of milk because we're gonna be covering in a not a great way babies and milk is
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their critical part of their development or so Untold
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okay so we'll we'll Dive Right In so first off I want to say that this story came
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from a friend and listener Daniel Shepard Dan thank you for making this
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suggestion um you shot me a text last week and said hey you should look into this thing I just stumbled on it and it's pretty
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crazy and I was like yep that is absolutely crazy so I'm going to start by discussing this cultural curiosity
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and the crime that It ultimately ended up spreading that we're going to be going deeper into the cultural curiosity
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is a thing called Baby farming you know what that is Sailor I don't know having much babies and
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selling them from good people I mean the spirit of what you're saying is accurate it's all horrible
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maladjusted Behavior but yes uh sort of like that with baby farming really is is basically
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a completely unsanctioned unregulated version of like foster care for children so basically if you were a rich family
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and your 16 year old daughter got pregnant you would put an ad in the paper saying we got to
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get rid of this thing here's 10 bucks to take it and then it would just go somewhere else and that's
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where it would be there's two versions of this and I'll bring up the first version the the more
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common version of it first which is basically paying a weekly stipend to another person to just care for your
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baby so every every week you give them like five pence and they care for your
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baby and then whenever you decide that you want your way back you can go back and it's like a pawn shop for babies
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it's like pawning your child like yeah like a super intense daycare it's an
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interest-free loan on a infant thank you that's not simple and but there's
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another version of this that is actually way worse and it'll be obvious why it's way worse as I get into the story the other version of it is you pay a lump
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sum and the kid just goes away so in that version you just say hey I don't
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want this thing at all anymore here's like a couple bucks take this baby and typically a baby farm would
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just take it and that'll be the kind of the end of it obviously the unintended
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consequence of a lump sum payment on a human being is that the money runs out before the kid is big enough to support
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itself and so what are you doing yeah what happens when you know you gave
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me 50 bucks to take care of your baby for 18 years and it's the second month and I'm out of the fifty dollars
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I saw it to someone else so if you were a very moral upstanding
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citizen yes you would transact that baby to another person that wanted to acquire a
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baby but if you're a little bit more you kill the baby oh no yeah so
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the good news for us Taylor is that despite America's history with
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transacting humans this really didn't take on in the U.S the way it did in
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Australia and the UK I think it was a bigger thing there that ever was here it was still a thing here but not as big as
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it was there but I will stress the caveat that these were not real businesses so there was no like
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yeah these are not like Delaware Corporations that are being created in in on the with the NASDAQ happening I
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don't know what Anita says but like these are just like business business business
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official uh these are just private parts that people are bringing unwanted
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children into and so we don't know how prevalent it was but we know that it was super problem in Australia in the UK so
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okay that's the cultural curiosity part we're going to talk about the actual story of the main antagonist of who
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we're going to talk about are two Aussies in New South Wales which is where Sydney is and their names are John
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Sydney Macon and his wife Sarah Jane Sutcliffe
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you know what I sort of told a half truth
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about our dates okay because these people get
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sentenced and brought to Justice in 1883. they got married on August 27th my
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birthday 1871. so like it's pretty damn close it's close yeah I think that's pretty close
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and they definitely felt Krakatoa there you go officially you know definitely
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heard it 100 so John and Sarah they're in New South Wales and they ended up
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having 10 kids of their own so five boys five girls I don't know what it is in human DNA where like the least able to
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take care of children are the ones who have like [ __ ] all of them but like these were definitely in that category of like they should have probably
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stopped at one or two and not carried on with 10 more children because John was basically a giant [ __ ] up but he
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couldn't hold down a job like you just obviously this is the 1800s women didn't work and so he was just like this
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[ __ ] he just worked somewhere for a month to get fired and then lounge around the house and get in front of the next week
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he did not have the facilities to care for a 12 person family basically right
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on or about 1881 John suffered an injury that basically prevented him from
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working completely even these stupid odd jobs that he would have and according to neighbors he basically just lounged around the house he hung on the front
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porches just he was useless and he was a useless human he was you know what's funny is like if you're gonna be like
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that kind of useless at least be fun at least be like a drug addict at least be a drunk like have a good reason for why you're that
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useless like you can't just [ __ ] like not have any substance use problems you just like sit at home and just like chill do you agree like there's no good
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reason I mean I don't know if I agree agree agree but that's like be fun but like yeah I mean who knows
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I mean he wasn't gonna do anything cool with it he wasn't just like he wasn't like sitting at home like he wasn't like going to the pool hall and like hanging
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out with his boys like he was just sitting at home yeah whatever that's right we were at our neighbor's house today and she's retired
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and Florence was like she's retired I was like yep she doesn't have a job and Forest goes does that mean she's free and I was like it does
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and she goes I can't wait for you to be free girl of course we all none of us can
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wait to retire we all feel this way universally so
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the so basically John can't work at this time and because there's no supervision or
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regulation on any of this stuff him and his wife Sarah decided they want to be baby farming baby farmers
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so weird and the way this would the way this typically would work in Australia was
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that a mother would put an advertisement in the paper and saying hey
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I got a baby I don't want whoever wants it this one's yours and I'll give you a
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couple bucks to take it off my hands and so this is the lump this should be the opposite what do you mean I just feel like like I
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feel like people should pay you to take your baby but this happens now like it costs a lot of money to get a baby like
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if you're adopting one you have to go through a bunch of stuff like the person giving away the baby doesn't pay to have their baby adopted people pay to adopt
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the baby that's oversimplifying it but like it feels like people who want babies
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or is it just money but then you have a baby if you take care of a baby the incentive structure here's here
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really seem mostly aligned with getting rid of unwanted children not supplying
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willing families with children where do they think that
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continue I mean a lot of good came out of this case actually at the end of it because like this type of business completely
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became illegal as a result of this case then because it doesn't make any sense so great a lot I feel like it's okay that makes me feel better
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like I mentioned before the latter version of the payment model is what we discussed earlier that's what this is It's I'm gonna put an advertisement in
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the paper come take this kid off my hands there's five bucks in it for you if you do and that's kind of the slump
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sum model right and so for this story we're going to kind of begin at the
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ending actually before we do that let me do some real quick math let me let me do some some Australian math
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um how much does that mean upside down math a British pound worth in 1880
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wow that is not a lot of money okay right well you keep going
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you can tell me you're just like no because because this is um
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oh my God that's so not enough money for a baby it's okay
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so no no no wait that's not right is that right wait value of it of 1880 British
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pound today hold on uh uh a value
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okay a hundred pounds in 1880
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is worth fifteen thousand three hundred ninety dollars so one pound is worth fifteen hundred dollars
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okay so that means Taylor that mean okay so generally the payment
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you would get for taking this baby off someone's hands was about three pounds it varied it was between two and five
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pounds but the what destroying particularly we're going to talk about it was about three pounds that's forty five hundred dollars
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to take care of baby for the rest of its life is that crazy that's crazy I'm trying to think like
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it's so it's this is not here or there but it's so interesting to me how you
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can break down a pound to like a half penny like a quarter Penny because you'd like have to if a
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pound is like worth fifteen hundred dollars like how much is a piece of bread yeah it was pencils like one pence
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is like a tenth of a penny no
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um so again we're going to start at the end of the story here so the the end of
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the story we're going to fast forward so we're like we're at 1881 that's when the farming business began the farming
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business I'm actually like the like professionals here and we're gonna go to 1892 instead so
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on October 11th of 1892 two contractors were digging a trench behind a home on
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what's called Barton Street I'm gonna refer to the streets here because there's multiple homes that all this
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[ __ ] happened in and the Street's the only way to keep them straight in my head so when I'm burning Street this is
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all in Sydney we're in Florida Street do you spell that word what what are you saying b-u-r-r-e-n
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orant okay got it and these two contractors they're digging the dish they're trying to connect the sewage pie
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from the house the sewage pipe to the city the city line and they come across a badly decomposed
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body of something they assume it's a cat they don't know what it is whatever this is a normal day in Sydney
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I guess and they just keep digging they go a little further and that's they find what is very obvious and clearly the
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dead body of a female infant and seeing this they're like
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let's go back to the original let's go to the dead cat and see what that was all about I'm like oh that's also a baby
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and so they obviously call the police and they run these bodies down to the
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coroner's office the medical examination is done and they start questioning the residents of this house and they
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discovered that the residents of that house had only moved in three weeks ago the coroner determined that the badly
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decomposed body had been there for three months and the other one had been there for six weeks roughly so no matter what
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it could not have been the current residence that had done this the police inquired as to who the
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previous residents were in the macon's name came up they had since moved to a house on Wells
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Street which is like a mile away from the burn Street house basically so burn street is where the original two bodies
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were found Wall Street is where they had moved to after burn street so three days later in about a mile away from the
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Bourne Street house police find the body of another male infant and what ended up
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happening was they go to macon's Wall Street house because at this point it was news right like they found two
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infant bodies in the middle of Sydney so it was news the macons had apparently
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dug up a grave that was in the front yard of their Wells Street house and
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place that body somewhere else that it would like not be it wouldn't be suspicious for them basically but at
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this point police knew they had somebody at the front yards yeah yeah I would never bury you under
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my front yard I looked at the house and it doesn't look like it would have well if the house probably demolished right
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so like I don't know what it looked like back then but I mean it's 1800s things were these are easy going back then
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but it's not like they have like a big beautiful front yard I can imagine I don't know maybe someone in your front
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yard or just anywhere that's not a graveyard probably right that's fair
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I mean it's also weird to bury someone in your backyard personally
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so so police go back to the Macon um sorry the
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making home on Wall Street they find this recently dug upgrade like oh the body we found elsewhere that had to be
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the body that was in this Wall Street house that was being moved over to this other location when they found out that we found the two bodies of the burn
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Street house so at this point there's not really a ton of direct evidence that really a crime had been committed other
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than the unlawful disposable body much less than the makings were the culprit all we knew is that
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some for some reason there's bodies that are showing up wherever these people live and like this is the 1800s they
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don't know why people die or how they're how they're being killed they just know there's dead bodies
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that's kind of true like what do you I feel like it's like it's a good question for later it's
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like when did you have to start telling people that someone died yeah I mean when did you have to write
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the down like probably like has to do with like taxes so you probably would like tell be like taxi less because they have less people here but like I don't
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know when that's taking the Law I think the problem is that you're running it unlawful like graveyard or an unlawful
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Cemetery basically at this point right we don't know exactly what ailments
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these children end up having exactly so like I said like there's not a lot of evidence there's just a lot of there's a
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lot of like dead bodies and for some reason the makings are costly around these dead bodies
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so their question and they basically denied having taken in any children
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during the time they were at that burn Street house but everybody was still kind of suspicious and so two weeks
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after the initial three bodies were found the police started digging up that burn Street house again and they find five more dead babies a lot of dead
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babies five too many it was I would argue it's eight too many
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because now we're at eight sure sure yeah yeah 80 many uh-huh totally agree so it was basically at this point that
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the makings were formally arrested Sarah John and their daughter Blanche they were taken into custody in question Blanche was the first one to basically
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break and say hey y'all are my parents for baby farming and she knew enough that like
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that wasn't a very well looked upon profession so that she she was gonna lie about it and then she realized like okay
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it's over I have to tell the truth yes my parents were taking in babies but at this point all they were saying they were doing was being midwives so they
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would say that for example that Sarah was a wet nurse which is like I guess it's a woman that can nurse when she's not pregnant is that right is that my
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yeah yeah technically like you could nurse forever like they have things now where you can nurse a baby if you have
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not even had a baby you just have like adjust your hormones oh okay well yeah so I guess so
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that's what she was arguing is like I'm a midwife I'm a wetner she's like we're not baby we're not like those creepsi
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baby Farm but Blanche gave it up Blanche the daughter was like yeah we just taking these babies basically so in total 15 babies were found buried
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at homes lived in by the macons after it was kind of all said and done I mentioned earlier that a lot of times
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the horrible [ __ ] that would happen to kids giving up to baby Farms where an outcome of the lump sump paint but
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that's really sorry it's based on the lump sum concept of like running out of money but that doesn't actually seem to
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be the case here because in most of these cases these kids were killed like a week or so after they were handed over
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to naked like they weren't taking them in knowing for sure we're going to kill them
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it wasn't like they ran out of money then they killed them they literally got them to kill them right because they
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were gonna get paid this 40. I mean like why bother right yeah yeah you're gonna kill him anyway immediately
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yeah yeah so yeah I wrote down like it doesn't make
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it it doesn't make it better necessarily that they didn't wait three or six years to kill the baby but still it does seem
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like more nefarious in some way one of the kids that was found on the
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property was positively positively identified as horse Amber Murray who had been born to an 18 year old named Amber
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Murray again a lot of these kids weren't like nobody give [ __ ] like nobody gave a [ __ ]
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like their parents sold them and so nobody was really looking for them after the fact
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but this this this rule was right Amber had placed an advertisement asking for someone to adopt her baby for three
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pounds the makers replied saying if she was interested that she could bring the baby to their home and that's where
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Amber ended up doing one thing I noted here was again showing
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how nefarious our intent was they would the Americans would use face fake identities to transact babies they would
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use like they wouldn't usually sign their own name they would present themselves as different people because and they would also move constantly and
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the idea was that they knew they were going to kill the babies they didn't want the parents to come back and say hey I want to see my kid again if they
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did they wouldn't find them because they had the wrong information or the wrong address or the wrong name and so that's what ended up happening here when when
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John signed the adoption papers this is hilarious he signed his actual name then
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he scribbled it out and then signed a fake name but he forgot he forgot as
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he's purchasing a child who am I today in the steam so ridiculous hilarious
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so yeah basically Amber takes her son the horse this house signs off with the adoption papers and the kid is basically
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theirs this is the one that was possibly identified yeah the reason it was identified was because
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um Amber hand knit a sweater or a shirt or something for the kid and so dude
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they literally took the kid and just chilled there like immediately and then like threw the body into like a drainage ditch and so when they found the body it
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was wrapped up in this thing that Amber knitted they presented the knitted things like yeah that's horses I made
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that form when he was born so not great that's terrible for everyone especially Horus yeah exactly
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exactly yeah I mentioned you know again like cases like this are like super hard to prove because hey the technology
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isn't there to verify cause of death all you have is like dead bodies but
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again like the suspicious part of it is that like most people like go their entire lives without having a single
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dead baby on their property so they have like one family have 15 dead bodies on babies on their property that's like a
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lot of dead babies like one or two you could probably get away with right
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yeah yeah yeah sure especially like before forensics and DNA and such or
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whatever you'd be like I don't know you know just like maybe it's a maybe it's an ancient baby you know like
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you is a reasonable sensible human adult how many dead babies would have to be
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like on someone's property before you're like this is Raising some red flags for me
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two I'll give you one so you so one you can get away with the
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second one is when you're like um most people have zero now you have
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two [Laughter]
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The Divide of normal volume of dead babies on your property yeah I'd also want to ask some other questions I
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wouldn't just be like I believe you I'd be like you know have you been contacted with a baby that's gone missing recently
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have you bought a baby if someone sold you a baby recently like do you have a
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contract that it shows that you've been transacting infants yeah people call this The Disappearing baby
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house like I don't know I want to see receipts that could be happening and you receive yes
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um so they go to trial the trial is literally just for horace's death because that's the only one they can
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identify it and nobody else you know [ __ ] about these kids to look for them afterwards anyways so the makins were
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both sentenced to death but there was a plea clemency given to Sarah which I don't really get because in my mind the
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woman is the most appealing part of the deal like like nobody's giving John a baby
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to stay home with him right on his own it's like you need the woman to sell the
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man like Caribbean I believe that that I believe yeah
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but they're both sentenced to death Sarah was asked for clemency she got clemency on appeal uh she ended up
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getting a life sentence instead of the death penalty and John's execution sentence was reaffirmed on appeal John
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was executed by hanging about five months after his conviction they did it super quick he made no statement he
23:18
basically what they were saying was he looked like a man who was like resolved to his faith fate basically uh he did
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write two letters one in which he proclaimed his innocence he proclaimed that his wife did all this and he had
23:30
nothing to do with it I hearing everything that everybody said
23:36
about what a lazy useless piece of [ __ ] he was like maybe that's true I don't know
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maybe he didn't have like the gumption to do it he like he made it sounded like I'm like
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my wife is overbearing overpowers me and I don't have the wherewithal to like stand up to her which is like yeah that
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could be true he did simply a [ __ ] [ __ ] loser you know I'm sure having 10 kids wasn't his idea
24:05
I mean it is it isn't again people need to know understand how babies are made and then perhaps
24:11
true it's true that was definitely part of it he wasn't not there as far as no he was
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there can you imagine what what what's birth control look like in the 1880s in Sydney ugh
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like partner good I mean yeah no I mean we're very lucky we are very
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lucky uh so John John made no statement he wrote two letters one saying he was
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innocent it was all his wife's doing the other one was a loving letter that he wrote to his children Sarah started her life sentence prison
24:44
term and her health like declined pretty quickly it was implied that she had like that version of syphilis that Al Capone
24:51
had that just like eat your brain alive you know yeah
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and so her her children like still seemingly loved her and they wrote the
25:04
judges and they asked for clemency saying hey it's her last moments on this Earth let her come home and so 18 years
25:11
after she first went to prison for being involved in somehow having 15 baby
25:18
corpses on her property we don't know how she was a suspicious number of baby corpses yes and
25:25
yeah yeah an abnormal volume of baby corpses she basically served 18 years in
25:32
prison she got released to her kids and she lived with her kids and she died about a year after she was released and
25:39
that was her shitty horrible horrible life if you look at pictures of these two like she looks like a really really
25:44
severe woman I don't know what it is about her I would imagine being married I probably wasn't a treat
25:51
yeah they both look kind of miserable but I think that she I
25:57
mean women I don't know during that time looked terrible like I was looking at a picture of like Queen Victoria came up
26:03
and Queen Victoria looked awful maybe it's like the harsh center part and all of the black you know they just like no
26:09
one looks great it could be they could use some like highlighter
26:16
man there's an economy watch her face this is an economist who shares the name
26:21
with John Macon that's unfortunate there's a lot of Sarah makins on the internet that are
26:27
not this one I'm looking at pictures and it's like young women and then this one
26:34
God that is a mustache on John though isn't it
26:39
that's a lot but yeah that's uh you know that's so
26:45
sad I really don't I'm not gonna say like I thought I would understand this like it would basically I understand but
26:51
like I really don't understand like I don't understand it from top to bottom I don't understand
26:58
paying someone to take your baby with what intentions I don't understand
27:03
I don't understand so many things about this 4 500 bucks like
27:09
I understand I I get that but like why would someone give you that much money to take their baby
27:14
wait 4 500 bucks 4 500 bucks it's the opposite right now and they did it for 15 kids so that's
27:22
like nearly seventy thousand dollars I mean that's a decent amount of money but I don't know if I'd kill a baby over
27:28
that like I feel like I need a lot more money than 50 70 000 to kill a baby
27:34
absolutely I think we can definitely agree on that because actually that's how much it costs
27:40
five thousand overall it says in California the average adoption costs between forty
27:46
thousand and seventy thousand dollars for domestic infant adoption what so if you get an international one
27:53
they're more Exotics they charge you more I think they're cheaper
28:02
like a Swedish one they can teach me yeah it's cheaper internationally it's two twenty thousand to forty five
28:07
thousand either way no one's paying you to take their baby I guess it's like foster care they give
28:12
you like money to like have the babies but like you could keep them I don't I don't and the mom doesn't give you that
28:18
like the parents of the baby aren't giving you that like the state is giving you that
28:24
it's a bad thing to want to to understand if I was like no I totally get it then I'd have a problem with
28:29
myself yeah yeah it's not a good model it's not your best I mean just generally if anybody tries to sell a baby to you
28:35
just tell them tell yourself no I just thought that happens once I'm
28:41
like a parking lot you know and then you call the police that turns out the mom was like on a lot of meth you know like
28:46
that's bad you didn't give you money is that something is give me money
28:52
understand I'm pretty sure Charles Manson's mom
28:57
traded him for a pitcher of beer when he was like two years old I think so I think something like that
29:03
happened which kind of makes sense when you see how it all worked out um I hadn't heard about that that was
29:10
terrible yeah thanks Dan those poor babies thanks Dan that was awful I mean
29:15
in in the end it's crazy that they that's exact same well wait go ahead no if nobody wanted
29:23
them though like right I mean I guess they still do want to be alive
29:30
probably they probably choose that over being thrown into a sewage ditch
29:35
yeah I mean once the yeah like that's how we should you know help people who have babies right to help them get you
29:42
to take care of the babies because it's not the baby's faults you know right like I don't know
29:48
um boo yeah not great I wonder I wonder how many babies are buried on my property
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I think it's one of those things that like it's just better not to know you know I have 200 Acres it could be any
30:02
number of babies and I just have no idea yeah your place is probably riddled with Corpses
30:09
probably yeah um yeah Juan Juan in Florence did a desert cleanup this week this weekend
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and they used a metal detector because people which we just learned they burn pallets at campsites instead of like
30:23
firewood and it leaves behind like thousands of nails so they're using metal detection they got like
30:29
thousands of nails out of the desert ground which was cool and we were like we should get one and see what we can metal detect in our backyard because
30:34
I've also been watching this thing that I think is not true it can't be true this Instagram
30:39
um of this like women who ghosts like little rivers around London and is always pulling things out of the
30:45
river like a beautiful ink bottle a beautiful old pin like a beautiful old something and I'm like how can you keep
30:53
pulling cool stuff out of this River anyway I want a metal detector I'm gonna look that up
30:58
I support you buying one they won't help me find the dead babies but like I do I think at all
31:05
man can you imagine if we started a Kickstarter for like a detector to find dead babies like how many questions
31:11
would the FBI be asking us about that I don't even know another babies were like wearing a metal I don't know how you'd
31:17
find that oh no reduction about some new technology I'm a decent metal detector for like 79
31:24
dollars okay that's not bad that's worth it that's what that sounds
31:29
like a fun activity with with the kids yeah it sounds super fun so that is
31:35
anyway and hilarious and you know hopefully already feels good after hearing that
31:40
story feels relaxed feels happy it's pretty crazy it's the exact same
31:46
time as Krakatoa that's what I was going to say like this is wild that's wild yeah look at you and me
31:53
uh cool sweet well is there anything that you want to read
31:58
nope I have nothing to read but I do want to say find us on social media at Jim defale pot anywhere else in the
32:05
podcast like And subscribe tell your friends we have an email that goes out every Friday with what we have from the
32:11
week if you don't get like those push notifications but you want to know what we're up to um it's on sub stack all that's Linked
32:17
In Our Instagram if you just don't know where to go to find it email us
32:25
thank you Jerry a friend of ours from an old job oh jury yeah
32:32
awesome very cool uh yes please already you know we're trying to become famous and we will appreciate you if we become
32:39
famous one day yeah thank you high five it's all around we'll buy you a metal detector there you
32:45
go or baby detector um sweet well thanks Taylor have a great
32:51
Sunday