It's re-release week 1! Buckle up for a heart-pounding journey back to 2002! 🎙️ We are re-releasing our episode on the infamous DC Snipers, John Allen Muhammad and Lee Boyd Malvo. Brace yourself for a wild ride as we dive deep into this true crime thriller, exploring the twists, turns, and chilling legacy. #TrueCrimeRewind #DCSnipersReloaded #PodcastThrills Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/doomedtofailpod/ Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/doomedtofailpod Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@doomedtofailpod TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@doomed.to.fail.pod Email: doomedtofailpod@gmail.com
It's re-release week 1! Buckle up for a heart-pounding journey back to 2002! 🎙️ We are re-releasing our episode on the infamous DC Snipers, John Allen Muhammad and Lee Boyd Malvo.
Brace yourself for a wild ride as we dive deep into this true crime thriller, exploring the twists, turns, and chilling legacy.
#TrueCrimeRewind #DCSnipersReloaded #PodcastThrills
Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/doomedtofailpod/
Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/doomedtofailpod
Youtube: https://www.youtube.com/@doomedtofailpod
TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@doomed.to.fail.pod
Email: doomedtofailpod@gmail.com
Hi Friends! Our transcripts aren't perfect, but I wanted to make sure you had something - if you'd like an edited transcript, I'd be happy to prioritize one for you - please email doomedtofailpod@gmail.com - Thanks! - Taylor
hi friends Taylor from Doom to fail today we are re-releasing episode 8 part one about the DC snipers I don't know if
you are old enough to remember this but it was crazy there was a time in Maryland in the DC area where people
were just getting randomly shot at the gas station and you know out in public in in parking lots and it I wish that we
have a good reason for why but it's there's not a good reason even after we know all the details so please enjoy our
episode let us know if you have any thoughts or questions we at doomed to filot gmail.com thanks a matter of the
people of State of California versus orth James Simpson case number ba09 and
so my fellow Americans ask not what your country can
do for you ask what you can do for your [Music]
country welcome to Doom to fail the podcast where I reveal a new issue I
have every single week I'm for s I'm joined here by my co-host Taylor hi Taylor how are you I'm doing well how
are you you don't sound well yeah I'm not I think I have that respiratory
virus RSV thing um and it's um every week there was there's something going
on every single week two weeks ago no electricity a week ago in Florida this week
RSV um next week I'll probably get hit by a truck we'll see but well yeah good times know don't don't
don't things come in threes maybe you're over it maybe that's it maybe that is it yeah that's a really good point yeah
it's all it's all uphill from here I think you're fine yeah um so yeah on on
that note uh I will say my drink for today is tea and honey because yes I
need it that's a good one that's good for you you do need that apologize I'm sniffling a little bit too so apologies
for all the sniffles mine are allergy related I think but um we're going to sniffle a lot during this episode I
imagine so I know you're going to go first but just to get us prepped my drink is um once again circling back to
our episode one we're going to go straight vodka because we're going to talk about some Russians so we will get
to it when we get to it but I'll let you go first lovely and I'm gonna start out I think I can start out by saying
congratulations to our good friends Beth and Jay I just saw that yesterday who are
engaged it seems like it's it seems like I mean it's been a week so it feels like it's public enough now to where we can
actually say stuff so congratulations guys congratulations we love you guys so much so cool that is gonna be a fun fun
wedding oh my God I can't wait yeah um so hold on one sec
Taylor farz is pausing to cough and go yell at his dog that's what's happening
right now I'm looking at V's office he has a white chair which is very very
brave he's back and I'm back great okay
I narrated while you were gone what' you say you you'll find out when you listen to it okay
so today's kind of a special episode on the True Crime front because it's kind
of a double whammy I'm going to be discussing two different types of relationships that were doomed to fail
one is a romantic relationship between our main antagonist of the story and the other is is a fatherson typee
relationship that was also doomed to fail oo I know double whammy day the key
the key go ahead so sorry to interrupt you fars but I forgot to tell you that I have a note for you for I know I'm I'm
personally not taking notes but um I have a note from you just kidding um from my husband wanted to hear more of
the of the gross stuff he said I want to hear the gross stuff so well
unfortunately this one doesn't uh well then tell him to stay tuned next week I have a pretty good one for next week
this one's going to be pretty like slap Dash robbery style stuff going on so um
that ju me and you are aligned there okay cool so the key denominator of both
of these failed relationships is a singular [ __ ] named John Allen
Muhammad Taylor does that name ring a bell no okay maybe later not yet you
also know them him them by their media branded name either the Beltway Sniper
or the DC sniper you okay yes yeah this is this is not that doesn't sound like
slap Dash robbery it sounds like hor horrible I know but I know but I didn't know how to like say it without giving
away what okay great you're great um
so this one's like this one's like a a super meaty topic there's so many moving
pieces to it I could have probably researched this for like a solid week and still not have gotten to everything
that was going on here there's so many details a lot of things going on people are moving between different states
different countries different people coming in out of everybody's lives I'm really doing like the top level version
of this I'm going to reference a podcast that was a um part of my sources for this later on um it's called um you're
wrong about and I don't know if they're still active because I know that there was like the team kind of stopped doing
the shows together like I highly recommend checking them out especially for their episodes on the DC sniper case because they did it in I think it was
four parts probably somewhere around 8 to 10 hours worth of content just on this I'm going to wrap this up in 30
minutes so obviously there's a lot that I'm gonna be leaving out so yeah I think I listened to an entire series called DC
sniper yeah yeah on you're wrong about no a different one like the podcast was
like a called DC sniper it was like deep diveing into it yeah so much so many details yeah exactly um so the other
party to this crime was I'm just going to go ahead and call him a child his name is Lee Boyd
Malvo and I'll start at the top by addressing one part of this that based
on how this was framed in the media so this was always framed in the media as
terrorism I looked at the actual formal definition of terrorism and the definition of it is the intentional use
of violence and fear to achieve political or ideological aims the events
we're discussing started 5 months after September 11th so at that point nearly everything
was called terrorism if you remember Taylor like this was around the time that the anthrax thing was going on too
yep everyone was scared I mean obviously you know I feel like that and then I had
it I mean I was in I was in New York on 911
but I was in a bubble I was in college and I like didn't know anything about the world really and I hadn't even
really like defined terrorism at all you know I wasn't aware of everything that
was going on in the world until then you know so and then I was scared yeah yeah
so I like I feel like people were like telling me that like my guy friends were going to be drafted you know like we
were who KN there's always rumors and like weird [ __ ] going on so yeah everything was terrorism then I remember
we talked about the when you being in New York on 911 and you seem to have gotten exposure that me being in Texas
definitely did not get um so that's awful on its own way but the um I'm I'm gonna I bring up
the terrorism thing because I'm gonna I'm GNA put an alternate point on this and say that it was not terrorism
because this actually was not ideological or politically motivated in any way we actually know why JN in
particular did what he did and I'm going to frame this as JN doing it because this is very Charles mansy where he like
he controlled I he was controlling a child so like he was the antagonist in all this I'm gonna get into his motives
at the end actually because they're so stupid it'll it'll blow you away I'm going to go through all this and then
you I'll get to the motive and you'll say that was it that was the plan and you like all these people died for this
it's going to be kind of shitty to say the the other part of the whole ter
was piece was hey it made better headlines and also they kind of had to call it terrorism because they really
really really wanted to put Jon to death when they caught him and they did spoiler alert so I mean it's been like
12 10 12 years so if you don't know by now John elen moham was put to death that well
also never mind you I want to come back to it but like you you keep going that
that's a that's a link between our being put to death is a link between our stories today so continue yes um so I'm going to start with John
and I'm going to say that like when as I was learning about this guy and reading about him he really reminded me of Donald Trump like in the sense that if
he's not right or if he is challenged in any way he doesn't understand how to deal or
cope with that like he just goes megga ton on whatever is in his way like like
taking a Sharpie and changing the way path of a hurricane I was just talking about that last week when I was at that conference in Florida
and I was like that was my favorite moment of the Trump presidency what are you talking about you don't know everything oh my
God so but yeah totally I can't imagine having someone like that like as your dad or as your husband like you just be
like give up yeah yeah um and yeah like he goes he goes Megaton in any situation
and there's a specific reason why he goes Megaton in this situation in the in the DC belt
area this all goes over a span of about eight months it actually doesn't even
start in DC we'll get into like where it actually begins it culminates in DC and that's why we're kind of we kind of
reference it that way um but much like every [ __ ] I cover like I mentioned the motivations on why he does what he does
turn out to be ultimately incredibly stupid and don't actually he doesn't achieve his goals which good he
shouldn't right I'm not going to go much into the Jon's early life than some
details that will become relevant later on John was actually born with the last name Williams he changed his last name
after joining the Nation of Islam I should know I don't know if you know this Taylor but the Nation of Islam is
listed on the Southern Poverty laws website with a hate group designation huh there's a lot of the
material that I read out there that comes up later on in Jon's life as he
becomes more and more indoctrinated that has to do with ethn Pur P purism I don't
know what what you'd call it just like like anti- race it was it's all bad like it's
none of it's like none of it cultivates like a mind that is like full of butterflies and you know rainbows like
it cultivates a mind of like everybody's the enemy [ __ ] everybody that's not me and I have a question that I feel like I
don't want to make sound wrong but did he did that happened in in prison I feel
like it didn't okay cuz I feel like people convert to as in prison and get
radicalized no no this came about because of the second point I'm going to bring up which is his um second wife
Mildred who seems to be a great woman and she ran across the Nation of Islam
and really like the clean living aspect of it less the ideological components of it and um brought JN into it as a result
of that okay cool so yeah the second point is that he's been married and divorced twice and Mildred is the
biggest focal point of the story that's the second wife okay and the last point
that it's that JN was in the military for a very long time and he was actually given multiple Awards as an expert
Marksman oh yeah not great for DC come in handy yeah we'll see so let's go
ahead and circle back to wife number two so let's look talk about a tortured
woman um again you're married to essentially Donald Trump but like without the money it's not it's worth
noting that most of what we know about JN comes from Mildred like he's not very loquacious as it comes to
discussing his own life so we mostly know about her or him through her in
1983 milder was living in Baton Rouge Louisiana she was 23 years old and working just going to church by all
accounts she's kind of a simple person doesn't have much in the way of romantic relationship experience and it's at this
time she beats John at a grocery store and JN asks her out um when I was when I was single for like
five minutes of my life my friend told me to go to the grocery store and stand in the vegetable aisle to meet meet men
he was like you'll know that they're responsible and that they care about themselves and that's the best place to find guys is that where you met one it's
not but I don't think that's a terrible idea it's weird just standing there how long you stand there I didn't do
it I'm just saying that's not weird I'm going to look I'm going to look up a picture of Mildred mild okay continue I see
her so at this point JN teased this up with her as wanting to jump straight
into a relationship it kind of reminds me of like an old timey courting thing
where this was a date to marry thing and John basically teas us up that way from mild as well she's not very experienced
in relationships he kind of says let's just get serious so they get serious from what JN did tell Mildred
over the course of their time together he didn't have an easy childhood his mom died when he was young and he went off
to live with a grandfather who was apparently a piece of work he's a closed book from here on out
he doesn't like revisiting his past but given what we learn about his character later on all this kind of tracks shitty
childhood there's a lot of details there but we'll just leave at that okay so red
flag number one as the relationship gets serious mild learns that John is already married to someone named Carol Bo and he
has two sons I don't get this I don't
maybe maybe I just don't have as much time as other people but carrying on one relationship
is hard enough carrying on relationship with children is hard or carrying a relationship with children and then a side relationship is how do you have the
mental maybe I'm lazy that's what it is know you need to really commit to it I think is part of it yeah and is there
like a what okay nowadays just for our listeners is there a way to check if someone's married I guess I feel like
are people not telling people they married like can you do a full background check on someone when they
pick you up at the grocery store I mean I would there's got to be other signs right is there an indentation on their
wedding ring finger like poor mild yeah seriously um yeah she learned all this
through a friend she confronts John who explains the marriage was falling apart she buys it and the relationship carries
on there's so many details between these two facts all of which make mild sound
like a saint and John like he should be very grateful to be with her but whatever she gets back with John a lot
of interesting things happen here and then ultimately mild breaks up with John this is before they're
married oh so they get married so they get back together exactly uh yeah later
he convinced her to get back together and then in 1988 they get married so did he get
divorced yeah yeah they yeah car the Carol relationship ended okay however it
ended okay so they're married now Mildred is pregnant with John's child
and learns that JN is cheating on her with a 19-year-old named Danielle how
old is John at this point John would be in his mid-30s
yeah uh he's been apparently seeing her for 6 months again I don't understand how like God I'm just I don't am I like
I'm doing things like how do you have the strength and the energy to do this
and like and like planning a wedding in the middle of that it's also hard yeah doing
a prenatal care it's a 19-year-old so you know that it's probably not just
like dinners every now and then you probably got to go to some shows like I don't get I don't get it but but
mildre learns about this and invites Danielle over to the house to confront John there's a lot of details I'm
glossing over she doesn't invite her over she goes and picks Danielle up she calls Danielle goes over to the house
picks her up brings her back to her house to confront John oh my God I love mild also I'm looking at her picture
this whole time and she just looks awesome so I'm just like imagining her being mad and she just looks so cool she has like a beautiful heads scarf on and
all her her photos she looks she just like like a boss she turns out okay I
think at the end of the story from these pictures of her and so I'm just like yeah good on you m yeah it's hilarious
so like John comes home Danielle is in the kitchen mild is like what what you
know John's like what's for dinner like go in the kitchen you'll find out he go to the kitchen and sees
Danielle this is incredible so also in the middle of all this one of John's Friends James
apparently he was supposed to go pick up lotto tickets for for James and so James came over to the house in the middle of
all this to pick up his lotto tickets he's sitting in like the living room like I just keep picturing this guy
James like what's going on like who what the hell did I just walk into yeah he
probably thought he come over and get some like leftover dinner um anyways they hash us out John says I'm
over it with Danielle sorry Danielle we have to break up because here's my six-month pregnant wife that I have to
stick with um and then apparently James drives Daniel
home what a day for James did he win the lottery is he doing okay we don't know I
did think I was like this could actually be kind of a meat cute if um if James
had capitalized on it but I guess he my God so funny um anyways they end up having a kid his name is Little John LOL
I know not Lil they later have a second child a daughter named Selena uh and in
general it just seems like John mostly ignored the responsibilities of being a good husband and Mild kind of was on her
own to raise the kids in mind the house because also throughout all this it seems like implicit that Jon is also
just cheating on mild constantly is a job so sort of sort of they start a
business together where John's apparently really good with cars and he would just go around and fix cars but like that's also how he would end up
being with women yeah I mean that's how you do it it's not that he's super human you just ignore your responsibilities
and then you during the work day while you're stopping by multiple women's
houses yeah there's also like just kind of hilarious but like weird Side Stories
going on here about John's Behavior so one time apparently he went to the Salvation Army and just brought home
some random dude he befriended there and said that this guy's going to be living with him like weird it's it sound I wrote
down this sounds like something Homer Simpson would do of is though like just shows up with some random dude um and so
obviously it's kind of implicit at this point that Jon is in some capacity emotionally abusing
Mildred he seems like someone who just can't handle any lack of control but it's a weird kind of abuse
it's not like physical beatings it's not like just constantly screaming at her
it's just it's abuse done by henpecking the [ __ ] out of her m
it was also like I said before like it's also clear like she's also aware that there's cheating going on at this time
like he's doing everything to make her feel like a second class citizen in her own home talk about everything the food how
she raised the kids pretty much anything that would come up he would find a reason to just critique her about
it John suggests that they divorce at
this point which by all accounts devastates mild she's invested a lot in this yeah and she thinks about it then
ultimately decides yeah okay that's probably a good move we should probably should do this he didn't expect that he wanted her to say of course we're not
going to like I love you you're so great like again psychological BS yeah
right uh doesn't work so he they do some couples counseling
and ultimately it's just decided that like this isn't mild mild puts her foot down at this point it's like I'm not doing this anymore we're 100% done he
does a bunch of [ __ ] because he lacks control he does a bunch of [ __ ] to make the divorce as bad as possible for her
not providing enough support for the kids and they also don't have a formal child custody arrangement in place so
they would just swap the kids back and forth and there was a story here that John came to the house one day and saw
the cupboards were full of food and this might have been what set him off because he thought that she was sleeping with
somebody else and that guy was providing for them because he wasn't because money that he was providing wasn't enough to
fill the cups full of food that was what happened one of her friends came over to the house and saw that mild had lost a
bunch of weight and was like we're handling this right now and went to the store and bought her whatever she needed
that's what ended up happening yeah the idea is that the thought process was that he thought he thought he lost that
other element of control over her which was like I can control you can actually eat which is an insane way to think about humans and that's kind of what set
him off so this time she lets him have the kids
for the regularly scheduled custody thing and he keeps them and at the same
time empties their joint bank accounts completely oh no yeah I watched a a recent Unsolved Mysteries I think about
um kids who are kidnapped by a parent and it was really sad you know like one
parent just like takes the kids and leaves the country or just disappears and the other parent you know never
finds them or knows where they are but can't go cuz it's dangerous and things like that so super sad and scary yeah
apparently that's the most common way kids get kidnapped I didn't know that I was I found out researching this G so
there's a lot that goes on here around like John calling and harassing Mildred
and yada y yada mild ultimately she whatever I'm not going to go into the details It ultimately mild decides that she has to go live in a woman's shelter
a she has no money and B she feels threatened by John in his existence she
ends up living under an assumed name and going and Liv in this shelter all this is going on in Washington state okay so
at this around this time um Mildred's mother gets a house in Maryland um which
for those that aren't familiar with the geography of the area DC Maryland
Virginia it's all one thing like people who work in DC live in Maryland they live in Virginia they bounce around back
and forth like it's basically like one giant metro area and it's it's intentionally designed that way
so that's a little bit of foreshadowing of what's going to come going back to Jon and the kids when JN got custody
that day he almost immediately put them on a plane to to Antigua this will become relevant again
shortly but the simplest version of what was going on here is that he put the kids on this plane they go to Antigua
and then he basically makes a living forging documents for Jamaican immigrants who are trying to immigrate to the US and that's basically his life
he just goes around forging documents taking care of the kids and that's kind of it for the time being okay so let's
go ahead and segue to the other main character of the story enter Lee boy Malvo so Lee that name is Awesome by the
way it is right I feel like mvo is there is the word mvo in Harry Potter somehow
I feel like it's like someone's name or it's like Draco Malfoy moved around or
it's like Tom Riddle or whatever just it feels very like a very Harry Potter name it does I'm G to I went down a rabbit
hole in my mind of who that could have been um he he sounds like he designs very very nice like gator shoes you know
yeah okay it's very cool name MH so Lee was born in 1985 in Jamaica to a woman
named Una Una was I mean I'm not going to go into a lot of details she sounds
pretty shitty she sounds like a terrible mom she just beat the hell out of this kid and just abandoned him constantly you look at pictures of Lee which I
would encourage you to to to try that um to me he just constantly has the eyes of
like a scared kid like an unloved scared child there's a lot of bounce around
that happens here una moves to St Martin leaving Lee at home with neighbor like
he's just abandoned constantly I mean she's doing it to make money and support the family but like don't just leave
your kid with random strangers there's there's weird stories that happen it's I mean I don't know
I'll do this for onean because he wants to know the gross stuff at one point Lee like befriends a cat who comes over to
the house and una makes him beat the cat because like he can't have a cat and
then like he beats the cat until it's bloody and then the cat finally goes away and then anytime the cat came over he had to beat him like it's just why do
this like what is that's terrible yeah um so long story short is that
eventually between Jamaica St Martin so on and so forth un and Lee end up in antiw did you find a picture of Lee I
did yes what' you think he he he just looks he looks like I mean so many of the pictures he's just
like when I guess when the trial was it's just a kid you know and he just he looks very sad just looks like a sad kid
yeah I know he does bad things but he does look very sad he looks he makes me sad yeah same yeah so like I said they
ended up in Antigua and all because of you know his job why make money there
um yeah I I I wrote here that if this was like a movie or story about animals
written by Disney Lee would just be like a bastad hound nobody would adopted the shelter like he's just he just wants I
don't know it it's it sucks so Fortune's C in Antigua because
una decides that she wants to immigrate to the US and given Jon side hustle or only hustle forging documents she takes
Lee to see John that's where the two come together for the very first time for whatever reason Lee starts going
over to J's to hang out and you know it seems like it's a pretty tightened immigrant Community there una tells Lee
at one point that she basically left she left for Florida doesn't tell him like this is a pattern like she'll pick up the phone call him he doesn't see her
for a couple of days and then she's like I'm in another state another country yeah JN figures out what's going on and
I don't know it seems like it's almost out of like altruism that he goes over there and tells Lee to pack his things
and come stay with him so he finally gives him the thing that he wants that father figure so their Dynamic is one
where Lee kind of takes care of the house and the kids while Jon does whatever it is that he does so he kind
of takes on like a housewife like approach to this like as 10-year-old or 12-year-old no he's more
old than that he would have been like 13 14 I think but um John being a military guy he just has this military mindset of
you have to be Stern strict and disciplined I only bring it up because when you're an aimless kid I can see why
that personality type would be all Loring yeah like you would want someone who takes charge gives you comfort and
safety when your whole life has been abused and cast aside by everyone who should have loved you right yeah totally
so ultimately Jon is arrested for forging documents Jon gets out of jail by some
accounts he literally just walks out because it's easy living in Antigua and then John the kids and Lee
all get on a plane with Forge documents and head to the US
so John takes the kids to Bellingham Washington and Lee goes to Florida to be
with una because una again had left to go to Florida I've actually been to Bellingham it is stunning it is one of
it is so beautiful it is I don't what's the sh thing about oh my God Andy Griffin whatever
that Griffith yeah what's that show it's it isn't it just the Andy Griffith Show
yeah it's very small Towny it's very small town and pretty lots of breweries um the Pacific Norwest loves their
breweries so John moves into a homeless shelter with the kids which is noted as odd by anybody who observes this because
For Better or Worse homeless shelters don't really see a large influx of single men showing up with like a brood
of children like that's that's kind of red flaggy right there yeah mild had
obviously reported the kids missing and so when John applies for food stamps the system flags this becomes aware of like
be on the lookout for a single guy with three kids yeah investigators start digging into this they interview the
kids and they end up giving their real name Jes and The Jig Is up and Mild is reunited with the kids finally oh good
yeah so at this point promise I'm not going to go into legal procedure this time an emergency hearing is held for
the custody of the kids which to me is the pivotal moment for everything that happens
Hereafter the judge give Mildred custody of the kids good yes John is
pissed what did he expect for a guy who for a guy who needs control this was a
massive massive Breaking Point yeah this moment is basically what leads to everything that comes next people who
knew John would talk about how this moment is the moment that changed like he just stay up crying all night and like he just couldn't handle what was
happening what the [ __ ] did he think was gonna happen oh you see a great dad I
mean person who just kidnapped your children he also thought he was a great husband despite taking his wife to death
so he didn't have the best Logic No so yeah because at this point he viewed
mild as the one who made him kind of lose everything which like okay but what were her Alternatives not to fight for
her kids not to try and get them back safely yeah at this point John goes back
to the homeless shelter and he calls Lee because he's lost everything and he's just grappling trying to grasp whatever
he can he calls Lee and tells him to come up to Washington this happens in October of
2001 are you okay yeah yeah I'm just thinking continue what were you thinking
was I making a weird face when you what why why why do you
ask me I'm fine I was just thinking about this I was just thinking about you know the
that John like calling Lee for like helping you like this is a grown ass man you know who's like going through
emotional thing calling a teenager it's [ __ ] weird it's weird and like I just was thinking about that cuz I like that
like something that you teach your kids like grown-ups don't need kids for help you know like grown up should never if a
grownup asks you for directions like they're trying to kidnap you grown-ups don't need kids for help like they can they they can talk to other adults you
know like they shouldn't have to reach talk to kid so yeah yeah if you can identify it Lee would later mentioned
that the pain he heard in Jon's voice about talking about his kids being taken away from him just kind of hit him a
certain way like he like in a way that was like man I wish somebody cared about me that
much right that kind of a thing so Lee looked at his situation and
his mom and the abuse he faced with her and then JN who had never been mean mean to him and he made really the rational
decision to leave his mom to go be with Le and Bellingham yeah the story is
basically Lee called John uh to wire him money for a bus ticket which John did to
get him up to Washington from Florida yeah so one thing I mentioned that podcast you're wrong about that I
thought was really good was they mentioned how sometimes a person can make an extremely bad decision for
reasons that make perfect sense and that's yeah so this I totally get why he
did what he did absolutely his mom was not nice to him he doesn't have anything like solid in his life except this man
who who was nice to him so Taylor I'm gonna Sidetrack
here I've been in situations before where I knew that if I let something play out
the way it seemed like it was going to play out mhm there would be dire
consequences MH but for anybody else to care the DI
consequences would have to be realized as opposed to how do you take
action before the thing you see playing out in your mind happens I mean you know
like I'm not going to go into details about it here but like I've definitely done things where it's like I knew that
outcome was going to happen if I didn't take action but I had no legal way of taking action so I'm like whatever I'm
just going to do whatever I got to do to make this thing not happen and and that I thought about school shootings and
how you know it's like oh well my 18-year-old son who's a senior in high schools he's legally it's his property
right to have a bunch of guns and it's just like there's times when you can see
the outcome in your mind and it is okay to be like [ __ ] the law and what that
guy's property rights are or what their like yeah any rights are like you know
what's going to end up happening if you don't do something but like you don't in a lot of cases most people think they
don't have a choice they got to wait until the horrible horrible thing happens then everybody else can right
right that's what reminded me of this I'm like there's so many people that came in and out of Lee's life who could
have like I don't care that she's your mom like [ __ ] her parental rights like
she's a horrible horrible mom who keeps abandoning you and you're clearly a shattered shell of a
child like just I'm GNA I'll just take the kid like I don't I don't know I
don't know yeah it sucks I feel yeah that sucks I mean it feels like he well it feels like Lee didn't have much of a
chance because of that for sure and I don't know like I do know that I mean sometimes like even with like child
custody things like you end up with a parent who's abusive or because they have you know more money or whatever and
a better lawyer or something like that I mean it sounds like the best thing that happened for for John's kids is that they that milder got custody of them
even though that is the thing that like sparked John kind of going over the edge I think it's still like good for the
kids that they don't have to be with him anymore because he kidnapped them and imagine like who knows what he was
telling them also like about their mother and about the government you know like who
knows what he was like what he could have molded his kids to be yeah that
probably sounds the same idea yeah well I bring it up here because going into the next part he's on his way to
Washington this is kind of game over because this next section I headlined brainwashing because at this point it's
kind of like done like the the the cast has been dyed is that the word no the Dy
has been cast thank you the Dy has been the D cast you gotta have your cake and
eat it too eat your cake and have it too you know whatever kazinski kazinski yeah okay so
I I think under any circumstance a healthy human probably isn't wired to
kill a person unprovoked there's a ton of brainwashing that starts happening here
between John and Lee like Lee or John brainwashing
Lee there's also another part of this that struck me about how how much time matters depending on the age that you're
at like I remember when I was in elementary school I think in a year was a long time I could possibly conceive of and you look at this situation like this
is only like a year to a year and a half of Lee's life but that's like a that
means he's like a fairly significant chunk like his relation with Jon is like a fairly significant chunk of his life
so he listens to him so again like I hate to you know
excuse find excuses for bad behavior but obviously I feel for Lee given his background his impressionability as
Youth and the fact that he's just getting brainwashed by a psychopath essentially 100% so during this time you know like I
said John indoctrinates Lee on na should of Islam stuff like not like anything
positive like it's all like the negative stuff around like Supremacy and whatnot
um they go to gun ranges and trained his Marksmanship quite a bit one detail that
I that I read that was amazing was that John would put up uh targets that had
Lee's own face on them that he had to shoot what yeah that is [ __ ] up yeah yeah it
they start form this kind of father Sun bomb but it feels like kind of like an abusive father Sun Bond of
like you have to listen unequivocally to what I tell you to do like there is no middle ground and he gets that like
that's exactly what what Lee becomes to him so let's get started with the crimes
so like I said the shootings didn't actually start in DC they escalated to
they escalated from murders in Washington which is where Lee and John are this time so back when right Washington State
yeah exactly not DC so back when John was married to Mildred Mildred had a friend who stepped
in and helped them with understanding basically like General accounting principles for businesses I have had a crash course on
this and can tell you that it's not fun but several things that I'll Inuit it from this experience having done it
myself was it is a it's like being explained like a toddler how Basic
Finance works from somebody who actually understands it and I can imagine JN having a woman step in and explain this
stuff to him was emasculating in some capacity totally and then later when the
separation and custody battle was taking place this woman took Mildred's side so
JN had multiple reasons to like he it sounds like he really simmered on how much he hated this woman her name is ISA
I keep saying this woman her name's Isa Nichols okay so in February of 2002 Lee
was told to go to This Woman's house and shoot her in the head unfortunately for everyone is's
niece Kenya was at the house and opened the door Lee shot her in the face and
killed her she was 21 years old yeah oh no yeah again there's so many of these I'm
kind of just gonna list them off because it's just someone shows up gets shot in
the face someone shows up like it's just that over and over and over again again a month later they go to Tucson Arizona
a 6-year-old man named Jerry Taylor was shot at long range on the golf course um
we don't know for sure who did this but the reason it comes up is because Lee and JN were in Tucson at the time and
John's sister lived near this golf course and so the idea was it had to be these guys in August a man named John G was
changing a tire that had been slashed by Lee in a parking lot in Louisiana Lee came up from behind and shot him in the
neck the guy plays dead Lee steals his [ __ ] and then the guy runs to seek help and he ultimately
survives September was a super busy month for them the following is just bullet points it all happen in September
they shot a guy named Paul larua who was a pizzeria owner six times he survived an employee at a liquor store named
Benny was shot but survived another liquor store employee named Muhammad was shot and survived a
41-year-old employee of another liquor store was shot this one was actually killed they shot and killed someone named Hong
IM Ballinger in Louisiana like they just like going on a spree right this is just their their Berserker spree
mode so this leads us from September into October which is when they enter
the DC Metro area again all this is going to tie back to a motive and it's all going to sound really stupid at the
start of October a 55-year-old man named James Martin was shot and killed in a parking lot of a grocery store in
Maryland the next day four people were shot killed within a 2-hour window of time in one Maryland neighborhood and
another was killed in DC proper all of these shootings were done at distance with a high- powerered
rifle at this point JN and Lee had moved into um Virginia they moved on into that
territory into that region they shot a woman named Carolyn seawell who survived the shot to the chest somehow they shot
a 13-year-old on his way to middle school they shot a man named Dean Herold
Meyer while he was was pumping gas they shot a businessman named Kenneth Bridges and killed him while he was also pumping
gas and they shot and killed an FBI analyst named Linda Franklin at a Home Depot parking lot it's just
spree um I think I like read um some or saw something about this
where like a woman who was at the gas station one of the guys was shot and she was like it's so confusing because
you're like what the hell's going on you know it's like in in um is it in the jerk when he's like his cans are
exploding do you remember that oh yes yes trying to shoot him because like
you're like well where is coming from and then the woman that the story that's like I feel maybe one of those guys that was shot at the gas station she was like
she ran out to help him and she was like someone come help help me and everybody in the store was like no because we know
that and the police were like we're not coming because we know that like someone is shooting randomly and they've already shot this place so they didn't want to
come but she was like trying to do it you're like CU someone gets shot in front of you just pumping gas you're like it takes you to like a different
reality you're like what is happening you know and you can just like be standing somewhere and get shot that's crazy yeah it's like scary it's like
anytime something happens that like breaks the Matrix you're like yes did that happen like what going on what's
going on yeah so it took five days for them to take action again like for them
to start doing this again and on October 19th they shot a guy named Jeffrey Hooper in a parking lot of a steakhouse
then two days later a bus driver was shot while just basically standing outside of the bus depot yeah yeah
they're on a I mean but but like I hate to put it this way like you're broke you
have no money you live out of a car I mean this was probably the most exciting
and interesting thing they could do all day just go finding people to shoot like it's a horrible way to think about it but like totally they probably I don't
know I'll get to the motive but I feel they probably felt like they were doing like something right it was incredibly
stupid I'm never going to lay off that so you'll notice that obviously
they're bouncing around quite a bit and obviously a bus wasn't going to keep working for them to get from place to place right at this point um it's worth
discussing the Blue Caprice there's actually a movie about the shootings called just blue Capri that's the car
yeah that's the car it's a Chevrolet it's a big old timey clunky piece of [ __ ] it was a 1990s model um or do you
know what these look like I'm gonna look it up yeah 1990s I don't know why but for some
reason the car feels menacing to me it's almost like Christine oh yeah oh I see it Well I
obviously see this blue it does look like yeah I get it yeah I don't know that's an odd color I feel like I don't
see cars like that right so fun fact it used to be an undercover police car oh
yeah before they bought it so it was actually a strategically good buy for them because for one it was
obviously cheap I mean look at you tell it was cheap for another one it was a huge vehicle like I said like because
they had no money they were living inside the car and then they would also just shoot people through a modified
trunk that had a hole cut in it to allow a gun barrel to protrude whoa how would you ever find
them like I'm yeah that that is like it's so it is so random that you're like
there there is no there's no Rhyme or Reason yeah yeah and look I I hate to
give kudos for this but this was actually like a pretty smart move it means the bullet bullet casings never
get lost right like you shoot it stays in the car you're always hidden and you
can make an incredibly quick getaway yeah the fact that it was a blue
Caprice was also kind of a problem for a while because when they shot that guy at the Home Depot the parking lot someone
stupidly lied about what they saw they said they saw a white van flee the scene so police were on the lookout for a
white van which like that's like one out of every five vehicles on the highway absolutely yeah that's I mean don't get
into one we've already covered that but like but yeah why but that's widely different
than a bluea PRI so if you're looking for a white van you're not at all in right direction yeah yeah there's a sad
story about how like at one one point the police found two guys in a white van they were like we got the guys we got
the guys it turned out to be like two immigrants who were illegal and they end up getting Deport like some some people just want be a part of a story like
they're such losers they want to be like close to a story like I saw something it's like you didn't see [ __ ] [ __ ] so let's get into the arrest
so 5 days after that last shooting on October 24th the two were asleep in the
car at a truck stop when police were tipped off by people who were at that
stop I'm going to I label this part ins side quest because there is an ins
component of this that comes in handy I didn't mention this before but at one Point while John and Lee were at the
homeless shelter in Bellingham Lee got picked up by the ins for being an illegal immigrant okay and because of
this he had his fingerprints taken oh and one of the crime scenes early on when they weren't using the rifle they
using like a handgun he' used the a handgun like a pistol to shoot someone
and a partial print was found on the shell casing okay they matched that
against the ins database to Lee so police go to his last know whereabouts which is where he got picked up which is
when in Bellingham the homeless shelter and the guy who runs the shelter tells them all about JN so they look him up
and realize he had a vehicle registration in his name because that was another part that was stupid like he had all this Forge documentation but
heed the name yeah like even I know not to do that right if you if you don't how
to forge documentation do it for yourself at least yeah yeah so it all matched this Blue Caprice which is the
only way they kind of came off of the white man narrative this info along with the car's
license plate number is immediately disseminated throughout the DC Metro area so DC Maryland Virginia all these folks had this information and it's
obviously picked up on scanners by the media outlet and that's how people were able to identify this car in the license
plate was because the media just spread this everywhere but do they think that they do they know that they're the snipers or are they just trying to pick
up Lee because of immigration no no they this is all tired of the sniping case
they like there like there's some some correlation between these dis murders I
also didn't get into this but they started like doing this like BTK thing of like leaving like you know tarot
cards and like just they start trying to do the like tying it all together like
the wet Bandits we know every house you guys hit because you had the you left the water on on every house yeah that's
exactly what they were they were going for so they get they're arrested without incident and I can only imagine what the
interior of this car smelled like um the trial began in 2003 John was found
guilty and sentenced to death Lee was also found guilty but sentenced to life other states he's a child well other
states were seeking the death penalty for Lee but around this time the Supreme Court had ruled in a case called rer
versus Simmons that it was against the 18th amend or the eth amendment to execute someone for crimes they
committed when they were under the age of 18 that took death off the table for Lee so JN was ultimately executed on
November 10th of 2009 he made no final statement and that was basically the end of his garbage life one thing to note is
that actually does appear as though Lee did most if not all the
murders that's why I said earlier this is kind of like a Charles Manon situation like Jon is the bad guy for
sure but he didn't actually do the thing interesting yeah it's weird yeah totally
totally the 18th Amendment is prohibition I just looked it up this was
the eth amendment Eighth Amendment okay wait what's the Eighth Amendment gring unusual ah okay thank you no yeah I get
EXA exactly what you're saying like he was the master bide of grooming this young man who obviously should you know
killed a [ __ ] ton of people so yeah should be in jail but yeah exactly so
Lee Lee is still in prison he is now 37 years old he has reached out to multiple
family members of his victims and apologize for his behavior in 2020 he got married and he's been continue you say
you yeah don't ladies there's plenty of non incarcerated people to marry just go
to the produce section and find one go to the grocery store find yourself a man and stand next to the kale don't I mean
regardless of his grooming or in his apologies like like don't marry man in prison don't
send to serial killers I don't know what the appeal is but yeah it goes without saying he's been
denied parole continuously and realistically he's probably just going to stay in jail forever um so I kept
teasing the motive Taylor what do you think the motive was I don't know
Fame guns he get his kids back those are my
guesses the motive was wanted to kill Mildred but he knew that if he went to kill Mildred they would know it was him
oh so he was killing other people so it would seem like a random thing yeah oh
my gosh it's so dumb like he killed all these people or had them
killed to Circle back to Mildred and kill her eventually oh my God and Mildred is fine she's thriving she's
thriving yeah that is so dumb those poor people yeah so that's the story like I
said look I think that on Mildred's front learning that he's married after
you've been dating like it was all a foregone conclusion that I thought I think it was a foregone conclusion this
was he was a psycho because I think that naturally you got to be a psycho to be able to carry on that kind of
narcissistic behavior and I think Lee was kind of just doomed from the jump yeah
definitely so anyways that's my story hopefully my voice doesn't sound too you
sound great I don't think you do but that's super sad yeah I'm glad I could
I'm glad I get to you so what do you have for [Music]
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