Ok, listen. Taylor will die on this hill. Coco Chanel, the iconic fashion designer, was a Nazi Spy during WWII: she and her boyfriend, Baron von Dinklage, a member of the Abwher (Nazi Military Intelligence) tried to use Chanel's connections with Winston Churchill to negotiate peace specifically with the Nazi SS. Knowing this, Taylor is still OK with wearing fake pearls but not OK with quoting Chanel for Women's History Month. Let us know your thoughts.
Ok, listen. Taylor will die on this hill. Coco Chanel, the iconic fashion designer, was a Nazi Spy during WWII: she and her boyfriend, Baron von Dinklage, a member of the Abwher (Nazi Military Intelligence) tried to use Chanel's connections with Winston Churchill to negotiate peace specifically with the Nazi SS. Knowing this, Taylor is still OK with wearing fake pearls but not OK with quoting Chanel for Women's History Month. Let us know your thoughts.
https://www.michigan.org/article/trip-idea/learn-how-drive-model-t-gilmore-car-museum
https://kafkaesqueblog.com/tag/chanel-baron-von-dincklage/
Stop Idolizing Coco Chanel : a shocking history of theft - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=km4dJCGZXFY
https://www.nytimes.com/2024/02/14/style/the-new-look-premiere-fashion.html
Was Coco Chanel a Nazi Agent? - https://www.nytimes.com/2011/09/04/books/review/sleeping-with-the-enemy-coco-chanels-secret-war-by-hal-vaughan-book-review.html
Spinster Podcast -
https://podcasts.apple.com/gb/podcast/the-myth-of-coco-chanel/id1537901366?i=1000581616389
Hi Friends! Our transcripts aren't perfect, but I wanted to make sure you had something - if you'd like an edited transcript, I'd be happy to prioritize one for you - please email doomedtofailpod@gmail.com - Thanks! - Taylor
Music] in a matter of the people of State of California versus orthal James Simpson case number ba09 and so my fellow
Americans ask not what your country can do for you ask what you can do for your
country and we're up and we're recording Taylor we're having some fun little banter about a not so fun thing that
happened to you with little fender bender you experienced um which sucks and but it sounds like everybody's fine
everybody's healthy the car is a little bit you know dented in or busted up but
the car is dented but it's not total so we're good miles is on the car with me but he's good his car seat did what it
was supposed to do you know it kept him straight up and safe and good so I
definitely someone hit us on the side on the driver side and he was on that side as well and I I got a little jled but
his SE kept him kept him good so we're okay nice good to hear that yeah um but
yeah okay cool we can Dive Right In um yes I will do the intro because I remember this time we are doomed to fail
far is joined here by Taylor we're be discussing uh two topics this week I
believe I go first this week is that right Taylor no I think I go first okay
wait but I don't know wait I need to check what was last week uh what did we do last week no I go
first cuz you did Ed me and I did Triangle shirt waste cool all right we'll do yep yep
you're right you're right um sweet so it is your turn to go and I'm curious if
you're going to give me some Clues on what you're going to cover one clue for you is can you see what I'm wearing uh a
bunch of pearls yep who do they remind you of Ruth Bader Ginsburg no but that good that's pretty good it could be it
could be her um no I bought these Pearls at Walmart because I like knew that I
was going to be doing this and I knew I'd find them there because this kind of costume jewelry especially these pearls
are something that was popularized by a certain women Woman Fashion Designer um
in the 1940s and 1950s well maybe the 30s is when she started doing the costume jewelary um so she's one of the
most famous women fashion designers in the world and also she was a Nazi Chanel
Chanel exactly um and I love these pearls I'm going to wear them all the time they were like $6 and I just like
love them so they're real they're auth they're real yeah yeah yeah someone dove into the ocean for these guys you look
so rich right now don't I don't yeah um so I did a whole bunch of research for
this um I watched I read a bunch of New York Times articles I read the book Sleeping with the Enemy about Chanel and
her Nazi boyfriend and um I watch I have a bunch of other articles that I will uh
share with you um I watched a YouTube video called stop idolizing Koko Chanel a shocking history of theft and um
listen to a podcast it was like the myth of coko Chanel all the things so this is the thing that I I talk about every
women's History Month um on Twitter I deleted all my twitters because Twitter's stupid but I did keep my one
every March where I'm like for the past like six years I'm like hey it's Marsh reminder C sh was a Nazi just so that
everyone remembers and knows um so I think before this before I tell you about Coco and her life um I do want to
talk a little bit about separating art from the artist because it's like a personal I think it's a personal decision like what you
want to do and like what how you want to be this like I want to wear these pearls you know but I don't want to like say
that Coco Chanel was not a Nazi you know what I mean and like so I think that it's up to you what you want to do like
for example I love Michael Jackson music you know there's no replacement for that
in my life you know like yeah I'm going to I'm going to listen to it and like things that I do like I don't want to go
to Chick-fil-A because they have garbage political policies and that's fine it doesn't affect my life but I can buy other
chicken sandwiches you know like whatever so like that's like a personal decision of mine I think the big one
right now is Harry Potter like JK Rowling just keeps doubling down on hating trans people for no [ __ ]
reason and you're like why are you doing this like so is your point that being
selective about separating the art from the artist is okay I I miss your point no I think
it's okay I think it's a personal decision and it's what whatever you want to do as long as you know the context you know what I mean so if you're like
so yeah so that's my point so like JK Rowling is doing garbage things on Twitter all the time everywhere about
hating trans people she's like making that her life's Mission and you're like why are you doing this like you have just like walked away with your billions
of dollars and like not done that but so for me I can
still love Harry Potter for all the Harry Potter has like done and it's I love it it's great my kids love it all
that but what I'm not going to do is I'm going to go to like a woman's author conference and quote JK
rling um and like I know how like like you know I have a Ford car even though
last week you were like four cars are garbage for S thousand hours oh my God I totally I totally forgot that you had a
Ford when I said that I'm really really sorry no I mean like I think that was a weird opinion you to have but that's
fine it's also not like an a $80,000 Ford it's like a regular safe americanmade Ford right who cares right
um but um so yeah so that's it like I I
can have a Ford and know that Henry Ford was violently anti-semitic and the Hitler loved him you know and like I can
separate that my my separation my distinction is like what is
criminal versus what is
opinion I don't know it's so complicated it is and it's the the
Michael Jackson one is is like pretty tough it's a rough one but like also like I love watching Thriller every
Halloween you know like I know it's a rough one it sucks I
mean when I when I found out the guy who was in Bronx sale like turned into a methhead and killed the cop and went to
jail like I was like man I love I really like that movie I know I know so yeah I
don't yeah I don't know it's up to you um as a person but you're you should you know try to know as much as you can um
so again my point is oh also I was like I wonder if you could drive a Model T and you can at the Gilmore Car Museum in
Michigan you can take a class to drive a model te and it's like really hard and there's like three pedals and you have
dra like weird gear stuff and like that sounds super fun you know that does sound super fun so stuff like that like I would love to do um and then but but
again I hope I've said this loud enough I am not going to [ __ ] quote Henry Ford in a presentation about hard work
all right very C very clear it's very clearly my opinion um so I somebody did
that at your last work% yep I lost my mind I um that
that's when I like joined that woman's group and did that presentation for the company for women's History Month being
like and then like gave other options of people to quote and just just you know
yes I was mad and people were a couple people were like thank you for bringing that up because it's just like no need to do
that was it like in an all hands or something be quoted Henry Ford a th% it
was like its own quote on a side being like quote I don't know something like work hard and whatever you
know I'm saying was it like a very very unique quote or was it just something very okay got it nothing special you
know yeah um so during women's History Month people often quote qu Chanel and
I'm I just found my college graduation announcement where I quoted her you know because she says like nice things and
that are exciting and like so I mean it happens she was a woman business owner she's a style all of those things but
you also like need to know that like during World War II she bet on the Nazis you know so that's what I'm going to tell you about um
so yeah yes she bet on the Nazis yes I'll tell you all about it not like you
know what I mean you thought they were going to win um so oh I I also wanted to remind you that I have my pearls they
were $6 um and here is a quote to start us
off from the book Sleeping with the Enemy that I read that I would recommend
um it says this quote is from a New York Times review of Sleeping with the Enemy
and they say quote Gabrielle Chanel better known as KOCO was a wretched human being anti-semitic homophobic
social climbing opportunistic ridiculously snobbish and given to sins of phrase making like if blonde Used
Blue perfume she was addicted to morphine and actively collaborated with the Germans during the Nazi occupation
of Paris that's the tldr yeah that paints picture
yeah um so the quote goes on to say revolutionized fashion I don't know if I
believe that either um because like fashion is I don't know obviously again I'm not a fashion historian so we can
talk about this maybe later in different ways but like Styles have to exist somewhere and a lot of times they exists
out of like utilitarian things like I just found this out in this video that I watched do you know where trench coat
comes from the trenches yes comes from the trenches of World War I it was like the
military coat that would wear in the trenches I I could see that I saw d d Kirk I remember that I totally see it
but I was like oh like I didn't I didn't think of that until like I saw that in video and I was like oh W that's crazy
like that was like so then like Chanel popularized a trench coat for women you know but like it was already there it already existed um I had this like I had
a couple like Rich boyfriends in college who were like very like Blueblood American guys and one of them um his
brother one time took us on a tour of the library at Harvard cuz he was at Harvard and like now that I think about it his brother was a creep and like he
probably was like alone in library at night that's weird but um no it was it was like in a creepy way
but um but that boyfriend that I had he made a store in SoHo that was like you
know you have to be rich to own a store in SoHo but they would do things like buy like garbage man uniforms from like
turkey and make it into high fashion you know there's um one episode of last
podcast talked about how in that part of New York there's all these stores that
have like four shirts inside them it's like who's who is this can you explain
that I saw that when I was in New York I was like what are these so here's what I think and here's what I've been like
learning and this is something that I learned about with um uh in I think maybe in the Versace
episode of of last podcast and a couple other things that were like kind of getting put together for me is it's not
about those High fashioned things like it's not about like those stores that are like the you know the Versace store
that has like six dresses in it there are very few people actually going there and buying those things what it is is an
advertisement people with less money to buy like save up a$ thousand dollars and
buy a Chanel handbag you know that's where they make their money they make their money from selling perfume from
selling keychains from selling the stuff that like a less rich person will say I want the
status symbol of wearing this like gigantic Louis Vuitton outfit but like and that's where they make all their
money you know like not on the not on the things that cost a million dollars on the things that cost like a thousand
dollars and selling all of those for someone that people are like saving up to do that special thing yeah I know I
remember that too I me more like the stores where it's not like the brand is the clothing it's I no idea somebody
just starts the store and it's like it's always some like 35 year old really attractive woman and it's like what is
what do you how do you have this money and I don't understand like I feel I feel so bad for the people who work
there you know like no one comes in you just like stand there but but it strikes me as like it's one of those places
where like it's more like a status symbol that you work there like it's like you're it's like when abber promi when we were in high school and it was
like the good-looking kids got application it's like one of those totally yeah totally I just remember that guy one day the ab guy that guy's a
absolute monster anyway sorry your episode no I definitely want to hear about the abry guy one time actually
with that boyfriend aformentioned boyfriend with the store we were walking there was an ABI store right across from
our dorm room like our dorm building in Downtown New York and we went late at night we went for a walk on the pier and
we went and they were re Rec carpeting the abei store and they had extra carpet and so we took a roll of carpet that was
like a carpet scrap and it was like 13 by 13 it was huge and we took it back to my dorm room and that carpet in my dorm
room for like 2 years it was a beautiful like plaid it's cool so you're a fan of Abie no I me I don't think I ever ever
bought a single thing at abomi but I had that free carpet that was really cool um I can't think of any cell more opposite
your cell than you wearing aonie can you imagine I remember when I I worked at Chili's and you had to wear um khaki ped
shirt and I was there one time and someone was like oh hey are you working today and I was like no I just wear this in my regular life I was like and they
were like sorry I was like I would never freaking wear this you on drugs of course of course um okay
so let's talk about Coco Chanel and her boyfriend Herman dink um Dinklage Dinka
I'll say Dinka and um their relationship and their collaboration with the nais he
was like a full out Nazi and I'm also going to hold space to talk later about
uh Katherine Dior who is the sister of Christian Dior this is what there's an Apple TV show called the new look that
just came out I watched the first two episodes um it's pretty good I definitely want to finish it but it is
about how Katherine Dior um was actually a resistance fighter and she ended up in
a concentration camp and she was she was liberated in 1945 and she lived until
2008 so she deserves her own episode because she's definitely a hero of of this time and I'll get to that um so
let's talk about Chanel herself Gabrielle bonu Coco Chanel was born in
1883 on August 19th she was born in like a small town in France her family was like unbelievably poor her parents
weren't married they would get married later and they would have 11 children Chanel would make up stories about her
childhood to like you know she'd lie about her age she'd make her dad sound like a hero when like really they were just like a dirt poor family eventually
Chanel and her sisters went to a Poe house for children or they lived with nuns and while she was living there the
nuns taught her two things they taught her how to sew and guess what the other thing they taught her is um how to dislike other people yep
how specifically Jewish people they taught her how to hate Jewish people um so she definitely came out of that out
of her childhood very very anti-semitic and um she also knew how to sew so she moved to Paris and she would sing in
Cabaret in Paris which like sounds super fun and I think I want to mention this later or maybe a couple times but in the
show the new look they really do a great job um with like the visuals and like
the Ambiance and like Paris is so beautiful you know and like everyone is like starving to death and living in
these beautiful Apartments because like you know your stuff isn't worth anything anymore like you have like you know you
still have the space and there'll be like these big empty apartments that belong to to Jewish people that they
would that the Nazis would like be like oh Chanel you can just take anything you want out of here you know like things
like that so it's like a beautiful background for a lot of terrible suffering I mean it must have been a
hell of a time to be alive if you were not Jewish yeah so a lot of her life um
well no I mean people in France were starving all of them were you if you were Jewish you were sent to a concentration camp if you weren't
stilling so this starts off in start this she moves to Paris in the 1920s but I'm talking like during World War II um
is when you get like the the in the show they do a really good job of like showing like visually what it it was like you you're in this beautiful city
but people Everyone is starving like Christian Dior is in a breadline you know like there's no food um so a lot of
but we'll get to that a little bit later so a lot of Chanel's life is bookmarked by men that she met and gave her
opportunities she never married she never had any kids but she had a ton of Affairs and these men would like give
her things it was like the kind of affair where like the guy gives you jewels you know like here's an here's an
emerald I don't either obviously but like that's the kind of like fancy affair it is her first big Affair was in
1906 with a French ex Calvary EXC Calvary officer um and textile air named
aen Balan she became his mistress that's when she gets to live this like Big Rich
lifesty style he just like gives her an apartment he like gives her a lot of things and since he was a textile Heir
he also had a lot of like um fashion um you know contacts and he had
a lot of extra fabric and he was able to buy some fabric for her to sew and create with at like a really cheap price
so she was ready to kind of start her fashion line um in 1908 she started an affair another affair with um balan's
friend Captain Arthur Edward boy Capel so everybody calls him boy he was love of her life they were together for nine
years and um but even during those nine years like she was still just his
mistress he got married during that time to an English aristocrat named Lady Diana Windam and she so she didn't have
an affair she had a boyfriend who then had an affair with her while being married actually technically he had an
affair with his wife while dating her I think he was already always with someone
else you know like that when I say like had an affair with like it means she's like a mistress like she's the person
that he like you know gives fancy things to sets her up in an apartment but like he has a family
you know all these all these how do I get one of these become someone's mistress you mean
yes I want to be the mistress right right right to a woman yeah yeah yeah
yeah um boy Capel died on December 22nd 1919 in a car accident and she will
always you know say that she references that and that was like something tragic in her life that she would always um
always reflect back to but um those two those two men that she was you know in
relationship ships with they helped her buy a store so she wanted to be like a designer she had like a good fashion
sense they bought her store to sell hats so this time it's still pretty Edwardian there's like corsets and like those huge
huge hats um that people people wear and she would add a little something like a feather or a jewel or something and
people really liked them um they became pretty pretty fashionable she opened up a little shop in duville France which is
on the beach and it was during World War I and it was a really good time to have
a store in the in a Beach town because of course all the rich people in Paris left Paris during World War I and they
went to these beach towns and so she was a able to have like her sister and her aunt would wear the hats on the
Boulevard and people would you know be like oh where didd you get that and like want to go to the store so she starts to
um to get a little bit more popular with like her hats she also starts to design dresses she um designs dresses in jersey
fabric which is like an inexpensive to make fabric but she would make like fancy dresses she got a lot of that from Balsan he had gotten their her like all
this extra fabric and she didn't really like invent anything other people were doing it but she was kind of pulling
things from Men's Wear in a way that was different and and just starting to design design around um another man she
met during this time was the Grand Duke Dimitri pavich of Russia and she would design for the Russian ballet and so she
would do like all sorts of like you know International things as well um in the 1920s she started to create her perfume
the Chanel number five and this is where she's going to make a [ __ ] ton of money is is from selling the perfume because
it's like low cost it's uh very unique Sheed they use like very natural
fragrances it's the same recipe that they use on it today so that's where she made end up making a ton of money um
there's a little bit of a a myth behind why it's called Chanel Number Five there's one that she just loved the
number five that was her favorite number another that you know the the person who had designed the perfume like the actual
per perfumer person gave her like 20 options and this was the fifth one you know all sorts of reasons but either way
it becomes very very popular um it's in a classic little bottle it's like a whiskey bottle so it's kind of like a
it's not as like the style then was to have those like really like beautiful perfume bottles and hers was like very
simple and people really loved it um so in the 20s she sold Chanel Number Five
to a company run by Two Brothers they were the W the vert Hammer Brothers there's Pierre and another one and they
gave her 10% of the sales and they Mass marketed it like around the world she
made so much money from this like this is where she's really going to make all of her money um the ver hammers they
were Jewish and she would she's later going to try to get out of the contract and say that she was like tricked by
them and you know used a lot of her anti-semitic um beliefs to uh to try to get out of that they ended up escaping
to to the to the United States and um it's a bit out of order but the ver Heimer do sell Chanel Number Five to
someone who is not Jewish to protect their investment and we'll talk a little bit about that in a little bit is have
you had have you smelled sh number five I'm sure I have I can't remember though
don't know either I'm gonna put him my perfume currently the one that I've been wearing for like six years no 10 years
um is no longer available in America so if we have anybody who lives in Europe and wants to hook me up with some
perfume um send us an email Doom topot gmail.com and I will what is it it's um
artier uh cologne vanilla incense it just it's really good okay
and you can't get it anywhere um so in the meantime while Chanel is doing this
she's building her fashion business she's building her perfume business she's also continues to meet a lot of rich and very influential people she
becomes really good friends with Winston Churchill um they go hunting together there's pictures of them like hunting
together um he he just adores her there's like a anecdotal story where he was upset about something and like cried
in her lap he just like loves Chanel um she has an affair with the Duke of West The Duke of Westminster Hugh Richard
Arthur gravner and he was the richest man in the world so now she's like
moving up you know as high as you can go he buys her you know a house all the things um she knew Edward the Prince of
Wales the one who married wall Simpson who advocated the throne you remember that yeah yeah so she's friends with him
um this circle is is is Rich aristocratic and they are very anti-jewish
um you know Edward and Wallace Simpson they will you know meet with Hitler at the Eagles you know like they were much
more like we can have peace with the Nazis not like we should stop them
what do you know why they hate the shoes so much like like what was the
thing it's I mean it's like it is a tail as old as time you know there's it's
otherizing another group of people um in Germany you know in Germany it stemmed a lot from I mean so I was looking up like
other riots when I like besides like the Nic Riots of history and like there's a list on Wikipedia of like famous riots
in history 95% of them are riots because people are trying to kick Jews out of their town you know it's just like an
easy otherization an easy person easy group of people to blame to handle the money which they did because that was
the only job they were allowed to have in his a lot of history because um yeah it's like you force them into a certain
thing then you're angry that they could control that thing yep I mean isn't that why Hollywood
is what it is now it's because they weren't allowed to do anything but like
entertainment entertainment was consider like lowly yeah a lot of it is like that
people are complaining like now the Jewish feel control like yeah they were
what were they supposed to do and it's not like they're having like meetings talking about Judaism and Hollywood it
just like happens to be that way you know and like the bank thing like this this it's a side but drives me out of my
freaking mind in the Bible it's says that you cannot charge interest on loans and obviously people needed that so
that's why like Jewish people would be in banking and they would be able to give loans to Christians when Christians weren't allowed to give loans to them
and it just like drives me [ __ ] out of my mind because how can you quote the Bible for things like anti-abortion but
not mention that you shouldn't have interests and not just remove all interest from student loans [ __ ] you
well hold on wasn't wasn't the theory I'm not going down this road like I feel like we're
gonna get into it I well you can't you can't use the Bible to justify one thing and then conveniently forget another
thing but they made the Jews do it because the Christians couldn't charge interest correct and now in America
Christians are like we want this to be a Christian Nation but we're also going to have these predatory loans you know I'm
saying Congress is using the Bible to justify some things but not other things you're showing up Congress okay thank
you that's where the confusion was okay I don't think that Jewish people have a
cabal against anyone or do anything secret or nefarious I do not believe that
um we're literally we're literally heading towards the Kanye West Route right now let's we absolutely not we are
not I'm 100% right I'm not saying anything wrong um so anyway so she is
with a group of people who are you know very anti-jewish they're also very homophobic which is funny because
like all these Affairs are all like a little you know there's gay people around of course like always you know it's not
like it's not like they didn't know gay people but they still have still are homophobic she also becomes addicted to Morphine she will shoot up morphine
every day for most of her life just to like survive so she's also addicted to drugs um this is when she allegedly
invents the little black dress but like you know it's just like something
repeatable and something that people can count on like her her Styles and that's how they become become pretty classic in
the 1930s Sammy Goldwin of Hollywood um gives her a million dollars in 1920
money 1930 money to go to California and design for the movies so she goes to
California gets to America goes to California and it doesn't work out people don't love her love her fashion
sense in in Hollywood as much as um they thought that they would and her her costumes don't really get a lot of
attention and she goes back to Europe and was like it's didn't work out but she still got a ton of money from that um her fashion line the Couture was a
lucrative business um 4,000 people worked there by 1935 so a ton of people
just some rivalries with like other designers but it was very successful um so now it's the late 1930s and the Nazis
are coming to Paris and right before in 1939 there is a labor strike of garment
workers which we just talked about recently so there's a labor strike and
um the workers lock the doors of Chanel and she they're like we want we need to be treated better you know we need um to
be in a union and she says she's such an [ __ ] she says like oh I just do this for you know I do this cuz I love it
she's like why don't I just sell the company to you my workers like I'll sell a company to you you guys can be in charge but she like knew they couldn't
afford it you know like they could never do that so they had to say like no and
then she ended up closing her business right before the war um she said that she did it because um to be patriotic to
France but really she did it to say [ __ ] you to her workers she didn't need the money and it was kind of a hassle so she just like stopped doing it for a little bit
um we'll talk about Dior later when I talk about Katherine Dior in another episode someday um but he did keep
working he worked for a fashion house and a lot of them would make you know they would make gowns for Nazis and
they it it is a a thing to be like how could you do that but also like
everyone's starving my family needs to eat you know and like someone's gonna do this so yeah what do I do yeah
I mean Hugo Boss made uniforms but like yeah like what are you supposed to do
what are you supposed to do and like you need to employ people like you know you need to I don't know and they all did it
bear did it Volkswagen did it like they all yeah IBM sold wait I'm gonna get
liable for this I think IBM sold the machines that they use to tabulate like
people in the concentration camps or something something like that yeah yeah yeah so like there's you know something that but
Chanel you know she she actually stopped her business during the war um but it was mostly because of the labor labor
strike um another thing in the new look that they do a good job of is like yes everything's beautiful and people are in
the people in Paris are so scared you know so the Jewish people have been taken out of Paris there's a French
Resistance which is you know people on the ground trying to get the Nazis out but the Nazis are in Paris there's a
Nazi flag on on the Eiffel Tower you know and if you do anything wrong they will kill you like there is no like it
it is it is a very tense everyone is very everything's very tense everyone is afraid
um but a place where they did always have food and always have whatever they
wanted was at the Ritz hotel in Paris and that's where Chanel lived during
World War II she lived at the Ritz with the Nazis that's where they lived um they had plenty of food there's quotes
in the book of people being like Oh it's such a such a privilege and War to be fat and happy you know you're like yeah
cuz everyone's [ __ ] starving and you're having like three course meals fed to you like presented to you by waiters who are [ __ ] terrified
because if they mess anything up you will shoot them you know would be nice to that it would be
nice to have that kind of privilege for real so I mean but they're just ignoring
everything all the attrocities and just like you know living there so this is where Chanel meets Baron Hans gter Von
Dinklage um Daga I might say Dinklage I think it's just happening but um his name was spots that was the a nickname
for him it means Sparrow um because he was a spy and he was a Nazi spy a a
German spy for so long he spoke English he spoke French he spoke German obviously he spoke a bunch of languages
um and there's a story in in Sleeping with the Enemy in the book where during
World War II when he's like visibly a Nazi like you know but he had been sped spying and pretending to be all these
other things for a while he sees a woman that he had known when he was spying in a different part of France and he was
like oh hi how are you and she sees that he's wearing this like SS uniform you know and she was just like how [ __ ]
dare you you were a spy this whole time she's like I believed that you were a you know like a French person who was
working really hard and you were poor the whole time you were a spy you know it's like be like listen ma'am being a
spy isn't actually the worst thing I do the worst thing I do is being a Nazi yeah yes that's really true um he was
actually married to a Jewish woman named maximilan henriet Ida Von shinbach and they were both Nazi spies um even after
they got divorced in 1935 because she was Jewish and so that he could go and do other
things because it wasn't even in their Circle it it wasn't safe for him to be married to her but they both kept spying
they like kind of they kind of like overlooked her jewishness because she was such a good spy for the Nazis which is [ __ ] up I mean yeah and then also
incidentally everyone in the story dies in the 1970s like they weren't put to
trial for any of this right so she died in the 1970s as well um but so spots is
his nickname um he met Chanel at the Ritz and
um they it's definitely you know the thought is that as early as 1941 she was
Chanel was working for General wter shellenberg he was an SS officer um he was uh chief of the ABW abair
which is like the their Counter Intelligence um and he was uh just like one of the biggest Nazis in Paris and
she would was like kind of doing little things for him for a long time since since the 19 1940s shellenberg was you
know a very very bad guy he was tried in Newberg um he got six years of in prison
for war crimes he was released after he in in the 1950s he had in curable liver
disease so they let him go to it go out and die on his own and Chanel paid for his medical care and living expenses for
the rest of his life jeez you know
um places for real Chanel's um nephew he
was actually captured by the SS I think he was more of a resistance fighter um for real and she used her connections to
get him out which is understandable um definitely um but by the Nazis she was
given the code name Westminster which was like a a nod to her affair with the Duke of Westminster um
and she's not the only woman that collaborated with the Nazis a lot of like regular women did like they would
sleep with the Nazis like in sex work or you know different ways to survive you know like because they need food um and
you know but some of them were like if these guys are going to be in charge then like I want to date one all the
things when the war ended um a lot of those women were called horiz Al collaborators you get it and their head
shaved right yep they had their head shaves we prayed down the street and I read a quote that was like not a hair on
Chanel's head was touched you know because like she was definitely one of them yeah if you're looking definition
look I kind of get it like that's why you were like oh she was betting on the Nazis and I was like I don't know man
like I think that if I was in that class and I was in that moment and I was like
these guys are kind of nuts like I don't really want to fight them because they're going to do horrible
like I don't know like right but plenty of people didn't actually go on spy missions and she actually
did so you think it was because she actually bought into the ideology it wasn't like uh I'm [ __ ] if I don't go
along with this no I think she bought into it and she was like this is going to be great for me you know she's like
she tries to get her um I don't know what that when I write this but she tries to get Chanel Number Five back
from the ver heimer's and she invokes a thing called Aryan law which is like Jewish people can't own anything there's
no way they own my business and she tries to get it back from them um but she doesn't know that they have sold it
to someone who is not Jewish and then they send someone they send their own perfume spy his name is Gregory Thomas
he seems awesome he's like 68 he's like really tall and like comes from America sneaks all the way through France steals
the recipe and brings it back to America so they can start Mass producing Shel over five on their own which I love and
I want to know more about that story sometime um but in 194 3 Chanel did go on a mission for the Nazis to Madrid
they called it operation model hoot which is model hat because she was a designer um she was supposed to get to
Church Hill and get Church Hill to stop the war she knew him and that's what
they had pressured her to do um and this was a specific side hustle deal by the
SS to be the ones that negotiate peace because this this is this is when the war is coming to an end and um they're
trying to figure out how they can they can Nazis can like it still exist as like a thing but like make peace with
with the English um she brought her friend Vera Lombardi with her and
there's one in the in the a Declassified German file they said that Lombardi was invited because Chanel and her were like
girlfriends like lesbians but I don't I don't hear that anywhere else I don't know if that's true or not but anyway she invited her friend with her to
Madrid and um it's a great scene in the show the new look but um before she
could try to get to church until Lombardi told on her she told the British Embassy what Chanel was trying
to do that Chanel was specifically working with with uh spots and the Nazis and the SS to have this meeting um in
the um so she had to go back to Paris why is the meeting why is the meeting nefarious it's like they're not trying
to kill Churchill they're trying to get a room with him right but she they're getting in a room with him to make peace with the Nazis which is
not what Churchill wanted to do you know yeah I don't think it's that so it's not
Churchill's like a wet noodle like he can negotiate on his own behalf like he can make an argument sure but she's like it's a it's
a that the mission is to keep Nazis in power it's not to like not have Nazis
anymore sure yeah okay that's your point um so at the end of World War II she's
like a little bit like [ __ ] like this like um all of the Nazis are leaving um they are being tried for their crimes
she put a sign on the door of her store that was selling just her perfume
and said that there's a free bottle of Chanel number five for all the American GIS which definitely helped like the
public opinion of her um because there would be like lines out the door for
soldiers to take uh Chanel Number Five back to you know to their wives and girlfriends in in the United States and
um in Wikipedia there's a quote that said that they would have been outraged if the French police had touched a hair on her head because they were like so
like excited to be able to bring that back that like fancy French thing um later she would come to an agreement
with the ver Heimer and she would still get a big percentage of Chanel Number Five um really she just made like
millions and millions of dollars from Chanel Number Five even after the war um
she Churchill directly got her off she was going to be arrested and charged
with spying and collaborating with the Nazis but Churchill got her off it's probably because she knew that many of
the English aristocracy were Nazi sympathizers like Edward and Wallace Simpson
what like I just told you like I just I said that Prince Edward who was going to
be king spent time with wall Simpson at the Eagles Nest with Hitler and they were like we should
negotiate with them and they were also very antiemetic and they were like we should have peace
with these when Churchill was like absolutely not wait so why was hold on the then why was Churchill like not like
that because he wasn't like that so so basically Brent would have
gone along with Nazi Germany if it weren't for winon Churchill yeah like yeah not just yes a lot of it is because
Winston Churchill's was working his he was one of the allies and their thing was we cannot anow allow s allow Nazi
Germany to exist and he knew if we if you negotiate with Hitler he's going to kill you like
he's not going to stop you know well me Church's like you know speech about
fighting on the beaches he's like we're going to defend this island till till the death like we're not going to negotiate with
them now I wonder if he did it because he literally was like I we can't see control to Hitler or because of the
Aryan stuff I think it's I think it's the control thing you know probably
probably now that you said that yeah it's probably just say that and like he was right like we couldn't like imagine
if we'd all be Nazis you know I don't think I would have been here cohort yeah
you on the other hand I'd be here you would not be here I would not be here yeah um so in 2023 there were some
papers that suggested that Chanel was actually secretly part of the French Resistance but I don't believe it um but
I can look in that later if someone you know really really believes it but um but she ended up you know kind of living
in Switzerland for a little bit finally going back to Paris and slowly becoming more popular um you know and as we know
you know in the 1960s Jackie Kennedy is wearing her Chanel suit when JFK is shot so she it's like definitely back in
fashion um I also was like and that's that doesn't that that totally Mak sense like the this is I I don't know if this
is related but it feels like it's related like the weekend before JFK was killed he was in Florida um meeting with
verer Von Brown about the Space Race you know so we certainly brought over the
Nazis that like were helpful in a whole different way I I think we should maybe talk about that some cuz that story is just like so interesting um so Chanel
lived until 1971 she was 87 years old she um went to sleep and said to her
maid you see this is how you die and then just died you know where she died
Ritz at the Ritz she lived there for over 30 years which also sounds dope I
looked up the Ritz you can actually rent the sweet that she lived in for €40,000 a night Jesus [ __ ] Christ 40,000
Euros a night that is insane um I love that
um so when she died when Chanel died in in the 1970s um the first lady of France um
Madame pedo was um organizing a hero's tribute to her because she was so famous
um but French intelligence agencies released documents showing that she had been a spy um and they ended the funeral
plans so they didn't even have like the big funeral for her that they wanted to because it's started to like hear some of the things that that she had done um
and um yeah I guess that's it
I feel like it's okay to you know you know like her clothes and like her
things but we don't need to quote her as a businesswoman because she would have you know been in business with the Nazis
forever if that had have been an option she was you know sleeping with a Nazi for many many many many years she went
to all their parties she knew all the big ones she met him like she was you know in their circles and there's a
little bit of like maybe she did to survive but also like she did it because she wanted to be rich and she was very very very very rich really how
rich like I keeps saying very I'm gonna do it Coco Chanel net worth so it says
when she died she's worth $5 million in 1971 money which
is oh it's worth less today due to inflation nope that's not true what am I
impossible that's impossible that is well you a terrible job um Ai No it is
about uh $38 million personal wealth yeah
yeah good for her well not good for her I guess you know all the things just
like know what you know and think about who you're thinking about in these
months of yeah history so I looked up that would so you talked
about Christian Dior and Christian dior's sister you should just do an episode on that family because another
one of franois Dior that's listed here as a
French socialite in Neo-Nazi underground Finance here
amazing let's definitely um I'll definitely do that because
that's it's super interesting because you're like and then they are these like super
super iconic designs on this like you know time in in the world and yeah
that's crazy oh this this um man this Ritz room is so beautiful I love I love
a French apartment like everyone does you know with like the high ceilings and
the um all of the like outlining and the things on the walls and the Beautiful
chandeliers and just like oh my God gorgeous um yeah I'm down like a weird
Rabbit Hole now looking up like Carl werfel E San lauron we could maybe I'll
do a fashion designer um series because I would love you know love to dig into their lives these guys are so
unbelievably cool like just the the wiki picture of e
Laur I was like damn that that's a cool looking dude you know who has the coolest picture is the Duke of of
Westminster that she had an affair with um that when he was like the biggest he was the um you know the what you called
it oh my God okay hold on this is going to be a little bit so the current du of
Westminster looks like a big old nerd but the one during that time um when she
had an affair with him man he looked cool I'm GNA find him he was the Hugh grubner
one I'm going to send it to you and just in this chat but like he looked awesome um and he was the richest man in the
world which is crazy um my other my other thought as
you were talking was being like outlandishly successful back then he does look cool
and he actually looks like a current Duke of he looks a lot like the current Duke I guess they're related right yeah
I guess if the current Duke of rest Mr like dressed cooler it didn't just like look like a
nerd then like yeah um
no my yeah wait they're all related yeah look the names they're all the same name
yeah that makes sense I mean it's a British oh my God what were you gonna
say can we I wanted to make sure we talk about Kate meddleton and and what you think is happening with her when you're
um what what I was saying was it occurs to me like looking at this stuff I'm like man like you really didn't have to
do a crazy lot to be like super successful and stand out from people like it I don't know it just felt like
it was it would be easier to be super successful back then than it is like today
MH but who knows um Kate hton I don't I don't know I don't know I don't really
follow the royal family very much um I don't like um but this like it's really weird
and this is I mean I've watching this like hilarious like 25p part series on Instagram um and there's like you know
William had an affair there's potential love child there's like did Kate have a mental
breakdown is she in a coma is she alive you know it's very fun I mean it's been
a very it's been a very fun week I feel like she she had a I don't know if mental breakdown is like the right word
but I feel like it's potential that she just like is mad and not going to put up with
their [ __ ] anymore you know it's I I don't totally agree with that because it feels like she was the one that like is
really into that life more than anybody El what I mean but I also feel like because okay yes because I feel like if
I was ever going to do a um an episode on Kate Melton I was going to call it Kate mlon she understood the assignment
like she was super in you know but maybe finding out that there's a baby with
this woman that he's having an affair with she was just like this is too much for me what what are you basing that on
I'm basing it on like I'm not gonna it's all over the news he had an affair with this woman and he did he William had an
affair with a woman yes many years ago and Kate found out and then she she has a older child this
might be Williams and then she also might be pregnant right now we also haven't seen her in a while um her name is lady I mean this is all conspiracy
theory it's very fun her name is Lady Rose Hanbury and it was like that is
definitely true that he didn't AFF fair with her when they were married
yeah what is it with like cheating in that family exactly so anyway it's very
exciting I've listened to I've watched a ton of conspiracy theory stuff it's fun to yell about I mean what are we
yeah tayor you should and that This Woman's mared too oh yeah yeah yeah yeah it's like a
small weird Circle and this is and then you know listening to the story it's literally always been like
that so I um so one thing I recommend is um there's a four or five-part series on
Princess Diana and the royal family on that podcast I keep telling you about called sub um um you're wrong about and
it's awesome it talks so much about the history of the family and why they are the way they are and why they only marry
each other and all the stuff around that so I highly recommend it I know it's wild I mean you could just watch the
crown I did I retweeted something maybe I don't know if I did it from arri Instagram something someone was like I
would pay so much money to be in the group chat of the crown writers right now because people who are writing the crown are like what is going on because
they're up to princip Willam meeting Kate in the crown um which is fun yeah I
never I never got into that unsurprisingly man so much
Intrigue yeah her husband looks like a nerd too he does old than her all look
like nerds with infinite money with with like
honestly like she's fine but it says like in her wiip pedia page it's like she was a model and you're like
what it doesn't make sense she's not yeah you know like I don't know just
because she was rich she got to like be model was she born into royalty what yes
yes yes I think she was actually like more powerful than him he's the seventh Earl of Durham so
stupid but like it's it's interesting wait she went and got a degree from open University is that a real thing and know
it does that sound fake I don't know what that is either I'm going look it up no but it just it just just strikes me like these people's jobs are just to
like dress up and go places like that's lit what their career is and we they are
given billions of dollars to do that yep so wild it is wild and I love other
there's something something I was like oh we just talk to my mom about this because she she watches the crown and my
mom's here thank God my Mom's here she was so glad she was here when I got in the car accident um my mom's here and she was talking about the crown how
they're like oh you know what if we took all this away from the British people they'd be so sad and I'm like I don't know would they or would they'd be like
have the money for houses I don't know I I I I did there was a recent um a poll that the British
people actually do love the monarchy um the Intrigue of it all is just very entertaining I think but and there was
also um our friend Lindsay from our old job is actually in the UK right now and her and I are messaging because she was
like I'm at dinner with a bunch of breits and they don't care at all where Middleton is they like they're like she can have her privacy and she's like what
are they talking about like like in Britain they don't care as much as America right now and we are just having the best time with this conspiracy I
hope she's not dead but it's just it's been it's been a fun week of conspiracy theories around the royal family um I'm
glad we were able to wrap our podcast episode about Coco Chanel with Kate Middleton honestly if we didn't mention
it we would we would be we would be wrong because it is that it is the thing that's happening in the world right now
which means what is really happening and and what are they what are they trying to distract us with you know
from Taylor is um putting on her tin pole hats right now it's pretty
fun um I have one message um naine and I were talking a little bit um our friend
anden about um labor and um you know her
and her um husband are both in unions in in Canada and um somehow you know it
does work in some places but it is you know like she sent me a quote from
Robert Reich he's a person on Twitter I don't know what his actual job is but he like you know that is um but he said the
two richest humans on the planet Earth have companies fighting in court to dismantle the government agency that
holds corporations accountable for illegal union busting they know they can't stop workers from organizing so now they want to destroy the whole
system you know so just like if someone's union busting they're not they
they would pay you nothing you know yeah I'm not I'm not advocating for
yeah obviously they don't want unionization yeah that is clear very clear um cool that's it I'm going to
rent a car and go see Dan Carlin on Thursday love it love it you see did you see the stickers that I did I did you
you uh sent me a text with them yeah they're cool very cool um please write
to us DLP at gmail.com find us on the socials at doal pod we will rejoin you
in a couple of days with my episode which we will discuss or I will discuss with Taylor
shortly thanks sweet thanks tayor