Speaking of religious history - here's a re-release of our episode on Friar Diego De Landa & the Mayans. There are many Maya people still living in Central / Meso America. They have a rich culture, but they did have tons of written history burned away by Spanish Friars - because Jesus would want you to do that? It's heartbreaking, and Taylor will always be mad about that. If you are tempted for a moment to say 'but it stopped human sacrifices' I'll stop you there & ask you to please see our episode 145 about Witch Hunts. #bless
Speaking of religious history - here's a re-release of our episode on Friar Diego De Landa & the Mayans. There are many Maya people still living in Central / Meso America. They have a rich culture, but they did have tons of written history burned away by Spanish Friars - because Jesus would want you to do that? It's heartbreaking, and Taylor will always be mad about that.
If you are tempted for a moment to say 'but it stopped human sacrifices' I'll stop you there & ask you to please see our episode 145 about Witch Hunts. #bless
Hi Friends! Our transcripts aren't perfect, but I wanted to make sure you had something - if you'd like an edited transcript, I'd be happy to prioritize one for you - please email doomedtofailpod@gmail.com - Thanks! - Taylor
Happy birthday to Doom to Fail! I'm 39 years old
>> Taylor: In the matter of the people of State of California vs. Orenthal James Simpson, case number BA097.
>> Farz: And so, my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you, ask what you can do for your country.
>> Taylor: Happy birthday.
>> Farz: Yay. I'm 39 years old. Yes, I'm 39.
>> Taylor: Congratulations.
>> Farz: 39 years young. I look 25 though, according to most people, very very young. Fresh faced, bunny tailed.
>> Taylor: That's what I hear about you all the time. Hey, is that far as guy even old enough to have a job?
>> Farz: There you go. He's so young looking, they literally ID me when I try to rent cars. That's how young I look. So just follow more. Follow Doom to Fail for more advice on how to look young forever like me.
Taylor: I'm doing great. Everything's fine. Before I ask how you're doing, Taylor, welcome to Doom to Fail
Which leads us into the Doom to Fail part. Before I ask how you're doing, Taylor, welcome to Doom to Fail, the podcast. We cover a historic and or true crime situation once, twice a week that are just due to fail.
>> Taylor: You did it.
>> Farz: I somehow muddled my way through it.
>> Taylor: I might be listening because I'm trying to find a background for this Zoom call. Don't want to continue.
>> Farz: Taylor, what's going on with you?
>> Taylor: I want to look like I'm at a party.
>> Farz: Yeah, look at that.
>> Taylor: Woohoo. No one can see this and it looks terrible. Oh my God. Okay, I'm gonna forget that turn off is what what you ask me. I'm doing great. Oh my God, this is my problem. Here we go. I hadn't checked to touch up my appearance block on Zoom now. I did that. Now I feel better. Anyway, I'm good. I've been awake for a very long time, which is very rare in this household. But yesterday we went to oh my God. Soccer game started at freaking 8 in the morning. And I was mad. I was like, this sucks. It was hot. Heat rash. I was like, this is terrible. And then we went to a birthday party at a trampoline park indoor place that was hot as balls. It was in Palm Desert. It was like 112 outside. It was not much cooler inside the place. Everyone was like soaking wet. I didn't even jump. I was just like hot for being there. So we got home and anyway we all went to bed at like 8:30, like with the lights on.
>> Farz: When did you wake up?
>> Taylor: 6:30. It was weird. So the kids have been up. And then I was like, I set my alarm for 6:30 anyway because I hadn't written anything for today yet. So I was like, I have to write it. So I spent a couple Hours this morning, writing.
>> Farz: Nice. I was in your state. I was in LA last week, and I have to say that the hurricane was probably the most overblown thing I. It was, it was incredible. It was, it was the best time to be in la. It was absolutely stunning. so they. Everything's fine. Although the earthquake probably did suck a little bit, but the hurricane itself probably freshened up the air quite, quite a bit.
>> Taylor: So, yeah, you know, I think that that is a good point because I was in LA the week before and you can see the f****** smog cloud from like 50 miles away. You know, like, you see it descending on la, it's covered in smog. And then also one thing that I really, I remember from when I moved from New York to LA being like, in New York, yes, people pee on the street, but it rains all the time in la, people pee on the street and it never f****** rains. It's just disgusting, you know, so it needs a shower.
>> Farz: I, I actually, because for context, I used to. Me and Taylor used to live in la. I used to live in downtown LA for a brief period of time, which is where all the urine smell is. And so while I was at this conference, I was just talking about how great it was that the storm showed up, the hurricane, whatever you want to call it, because it washed away all the p*** in downtown. And everybody was looking at me like, you realize that you're like a professional work conference, right? And I was like, oh, yeah, I guess I shouldn't be talking about p*** stains and p*** soda at a work conference, but that is 100% true. It washed it away and it smelled fantastic.
>> Taylor: If you want to move to downtown la, give me a call. I will talk you out of it. Because I'm always right. I talk people out of it.
>> Farz: That is true. That is true.
>> Taylor: When people, people do it and they're like, I shouldn't have done it. And I was like, oh, remember where I told you not to do it?
>> Farz: I mean, I did it out of desperation. I really had nowhere to go.
>> Taylor: God. And I knew someone who I worked with at that time when you lived in that building, and she was always like, I live in downtown la, in the coolest neighborhood. It is so cool and so fun. And I found out she lives in your building. And I was like, I follow Fars on that Citizen app and there is a murder underneath Fars Apartment like every other day. I was like, you do not live in the nicest neighborhood. What's wrong with you?
>> Farz: Every morning there was like several people with heroin needles stuck out of their arms, passed down the front of the building. It was definitely not a nice neighborhood.
>> Taylor: That 711 was always getting robbed.
>> Farz: That someone was always getting robbed. And also, it actually, like. So that friend was trying to be fancier than the truth. Because that was technically Westfield. It was not, actually.
>> Taylor: I know. I was like, girl, you are a liar. You're. I can't. I don't even understand.
>> Farz: Yeah, yeah.
You're flexing on the wrong thing. This is not something. Exactly. Like everything. And hopefully it gets better
You're flexing on the wrong thing. This is not something.
>> Taylor: Exactly. Exactly. But she moved and hopefully she's happy where she lives now and safer because it's not safe there. And hopefully it gets better. Like everything.
>> Farz: Like everything.
Taylor: I'm drinking a protein shake because it's my birthday
So, Taylor, what are we today? You go first, I believe.
>> Taylor: Right, I do. So tell me what you're. What you're drinking, my friend.
>> Farz: I'm drinking a protein shake. I'm drinking a protein shake because.
>> Taylor: Dumb. It is your birthday.
>> Farz: No, because I'm going. I'm going. So. So. Okay, so the. The new Mrs. Fars picked a. I asked for a place that has, like, really good espresso martinis, and so she picked a really good espresso martini. Place is actually kind of local here. And so. So we're going to that in like an hour and a half, two hours. And so I did my yoga in the morning, and now I'm having this because that's how I say looking young.
>> Taylor: All right, old man.
>> Farz: Thank. You. Know, it's funny, Taylor, I was. I had a. I had breakfast with our former CEO in LA last week, and somehow we ended up on our age and everything else. And you know how, like, she's generally a very, very sweet and nice person and we're talking about our age. And I go, yeah. I mean, do I look like I'm about to turn 39? She's like, yeah, I can see it. I was like, s***.
>> Taylor: Now that 39 is young, nothing's wrong with it. 39 is the new. I don't know, you don't want. Who wants to be in their 20s again?
>> Farz: I literally have my. I literally have the health exam results of my life insurance policy on this other window right now. So. Yeah, 39 is great.
>> Taylor: You own your house.
>> Farz: I mean, the. The bank. The bank technically owns the house, but. Yeah, I know.
>> Taylor: I explained the mortgage to my kids, and they're, like, worried. I'm like, no, we. We own it. Don't worry. Stop. It's fine.
>> Farz: It's like, yeah, watch what happens when you actually own it and you don't pay your property taxes. Then you. You really? Somebody always. Somebody else can always own it down the line.
>> Taylor: Yeah, exactly.
>> Farz: So, yeah, I'm drinking a protein shake. That's it.
>> Taylor: Great. You look youthful.
>> Farz: Thank you.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
Fars has two official stances on religion: One is you. Two is you
Okay, well, I am drinking Mexican hot chocolate. Not really. But in. In my theme, because I try to do a theme. Have you had Mexican hot chocolate?
>> Farz: No, but it sounds really good. I don't know why? Because I assume it has some, like, cayenne or something. It has something spicy in it, right? Yeah. Okay.
>> Taylor: Oh, my God. Exactly that. So I actually just remembered this hilarious family story that has nothing to do with my story, but I had Mexican hot chocolate or like spicy hot chocolate. Exactly that. In colonial Williamsburg for some reason, because they had it there as well. And obviously they got chocolate from the Yucatan in Mexico. But I was with my husband's family many, many years ago in. In colonial Williamsburg, and they gave us a spicy chocolate. And they said, what are the ingredients? And they were like, oh, it has, like, cayenne pepper, like you said, and turmeric and a couple other spices in it. And we all lost our minds laughing because we have this family story and we. In a Puerto Rican accent that I will not be doing because Juan has a Puerto Rican family, but his cousin canceled. No. His cousin made a cake that was full of pot, like, super high cake. And her mom ate a piece of it. And she was like, this cake is delicious. And she was like, what is in this cake? And Juan's cousin was like, cayenne pepper and tumeric. So we were like, laughing so hard and said that that was the ingredients on the hot chocolate. Because we always say, like, this is delicious was in it. And we're like, o, it's cayenne pepper and turmeric. But, like, obviously her mom was just super high and it was so funny. I mean, laugh about it all the time.
>> Farz: Was she trying to get her mom high?
>> Taylor: No, it was like, accident. She accidentally ate some of the cake.
>> Farz: There you go.
>> Taylor: She was like, oh, s***. My mom ate some of this. This weed cake. Anyway, so fun. So fun. So anyway, that's what I'm drinking. Imagine I'm drinking that. But not in colonial Williamsburg in the Yucatan. So I. Chocolate and hot chocolate, as you may know, is actually an ancient drink that was popular with the Mayan people. We're going to talk a little bit about the Maya people in their history, but specifically, I'm going to talk about one specific Friar Diego de Landa, a Franciscan priest who burned most of the Mayan books and hundreds of their idols because of God and This guy is a piece of s***. So let me drink some coffee before I do this, because I have a lot to rant about.
>> Farz: Does he have the Friar Tuck haircut, since his name is Friar?
>> Taylor: A little bit. He's not Great. Okay, so, you know, fars my two official stances on religion. One is, hey, this is America. Do whatever you want. Just don't hurt people. Pointing at you, people who are hurting people. Stance. Two is you. God is fake. Grow up. Are you f****** serious? So I waffle between the two, depending on who I'm talking to. Specifically with the Catholic Church. Does the Catholic Church have any redeeming qualities?
>> Farz: Oh, my God, yes.
>> Taylor: Like what?
>> Farz: They gave us Satanism. They gave us, like, the most morbid. Jesus Christ is a six pack. Like, it is the most, like, sexual religion there is.
>> Taylor: No, that is not a redeeming quality for all the s***.
>> Farz: That is awesome. Well, okay, take away the pedophilia. And.
>> Taylor: And no, nothing. So yesterday, my friend was telling me when we were at this trampoline park that she left her dog alone for a few hours and her dog threw up and pooped all over her house. And for me, I'm like, that's not enough reading quality for me to ever have a dog. And I know you love your dog, but, like, that's f****** gross. But she was like, but he's a good boy. So for her, his, like, goodness is. Makes it okay that she had to, like, spend three hours cleaning up puke, which is disgusting. And so for her, that's the redeeming quality that she wants to have a dog, even though it's s*** and throw up all over everything. So I'm imagining the Catholic Church s******* and throwing up all over the whole f****** world, and they have no redeeming qualities. They've killed so many people, they've ruined so many lives, so many cultures, assaulted so many children for so long. The only thing I could possibly think of is the architecture, because it's beautiful. And, like, maybe the Sistine Chapel, because it's also beautiful. And also, I know that Sinead o' Connor recently passed. And I remember when she tore up the picture of the Pope, I thought that was, like, an Irish thing, because, like, Irish Ireland's always, like, Catholic, Protestant, mad at each other. But it was actually specifically about the pedophilia in the Catholic Church.
The Archdiocese of San Francisco is going to declare back bankruptcy
And I just want to say, recently in the news, the Archdiocese of San Francisco is going to declare back bankruptcy because they've spent all of their money defending 500 molestation allegations.
>> Farz: So, like, more than zero.
>> Taylor: Little old ladies are giving their money to the Catholic Church for the Catholic Church to defend pedophiles.
>> Farz: Yeah, that's kind of nuts.
>> Taylor: Okay, so it's bananas. Plus all of their non tax real estate and all that. So that's the worst. And that's kind of my overarching thought during this.
Taylor: I'm going to interview Marcos Antonio Hernandez about Mayan history
But back to the Mayans and how I got here. I was on Instagram, like I am all the time, and I saw a book that was like, in an ad reel that someone had done by an author named Marcos Antonio Hernandez. It's about Friar Diego, but he was like, this is about the monk that burned all of the Mayan history. It's called where they burn books. They also burn people. I have it right here. It's great. So I have it here. I read the whole thing. Holding it up for you.
>> Farz: That is awesome.
>> Taylor: Got a dope cover.
>> Farz: That is a dope cover.
>> Taylor: Yeah. So I usually spend like one week, you know, this, like, researching something that someone spends their whole life learning about. So that's what I have been doing this week. This book I've been reading for about a month. I took it on vacation with me. And then this week I started doing more about the Maya in general. But when I got this book, I was, like, a little disappointed because it's a fiction book. And I was like, oh, I thought it was going to be like, his history, but it was. It's so good. It's actually two books that he read. He wrote. One of them is about Friar Diego specifically, and then one of them is about, like, a man nowadays, like a fiction story, and he weaves them together. It's really, really good. And I loved it so much that next week I am going to be interviewing Marcos Antonio Hernandez and recording it for the podcast.
>> Farz: Wait, seriously? How do you.
>> Taylor: I emailed him and told him I love his book.
>> Farz: What?
>> Taylor: Yeah, I'm super excited. I told him. I'm like, my podcast is coming out on Monday. It's about your book. It's about Friar Diego. I'd love to talk to you more about it. He writes a ton about Latin American history, and so I'm stoked. So I'm gonna record next week with him and I'll post that for you all.
>> Farz: This is incredible, Taylor.
>> Taylor: And I'm stoked. Yeah, this book is great. Highly recommend. I'll post the link and all that.
>> Farz: You're so creative, Taylor. You came up with the series concept with the volcano thing. You're doing interviews now. Like, man, I'm so Like behind.
>> Taylor: Thank you.
>> Farz: Thank you. Way to go.
I started reading a lot about the Mayans. I actually had read a book last year about them
>> Taylor: Well, I'm very, very excited and I think one of the things that is a very loose theme from this book, very clear, is burning books is always bad. Always, always another. So, you know, I started reading this and then I started reading a lot about the Mayans. I actually had read a book last year about them because I was like, why don't I know anything about them? I read it again this week too, because now I have more context of like reading this book. I also, in a non academic Turn, watched the 2009 movie 2012 with John Cusack. Have you watched that?
>> Farz: Oh, like 80 times.
>> Taylor: Okay. It's great. I did not know how good it was going to be. I was like, I might not watch it again because I had a panic attack the entire time because.
>> Farz: Wait, this is the first time you saw 2012?
>> Taylor: Yes. I. I think I thought I couldn't emotionally handle it like before because it was like, it's like la. Like it's totally destroyed. The White House gets destroyed by a tsunami. It was so good.
>> Farz: It's awesome.
>> Taylor: I really liked it. It was ridiculous, but I loved it. I said I wrote 10 out of 10. Just great. And that's because the Mayans had a calendar that essentially ended on December 21, 2012. But spoiler alert, the world to not end. So we're still here.
>> Farz: Unless it's a different calendar.
>> Taylor: I know. Well, who knows? We're gonna, I mean, we'll see what happens. So I have a lot of sources besides these things. So I listened to a podcast on history hit about Maya warfare and sacrifice. I. What else? I listened to a fall of civilizations podcast about the Mayan collapse. I read the book the Maya by Michael D. Ko. There's a article I read about the village of Seren that I'll talk to you about later. And then I also read the introduction to Friar Diego's History of the Yucatan by William Gates. And that kind of gives you a history of like what we're talking about here. But I'll tell you about it in a second. I also happened to be at two museums recently, both the Natural History Museum in New York and in la, where there were a bunch of Mayan like pottery and artifacts. And I knew I was going to do this, so I took a ton of pictures. So I'm also going to post those later too.
The Mayan people lived in Mesoamerica
So before I tell you exactly what Friar Diego did, I'm going to tell you a non comprehensive and non academic list of things that I learned about the Mayan people just this week by listening to books really fast.
>> Farz: Cool.
>> Taylor: So the Mayan people lived in the Yucatan Peninsula of Mesoamerica. So right now that's, like, Mexico, Guatemala, Belize, Honduras, like, that area. Today, There are about 9 million Mayan people living in these areas. So there's still people who identify as Mayan, like, indigenous to the land. It's also, like, a blanket term for a lot of the people that the Europeans encountered. There's obviously nuances. Like, every culture, there were, like, little kingdoms and, like, different cities and different rulers and different types of people. But, like, the Maya is, like, a term that kind of encapsulates the whole thing.
>> Farz: Okay, makes sense.
>> Taylor: They lived in this area for thousands of years. So there's evidence of different eras. There's a classical era, like, a neoclassical era, where there were huge kingdoms and huge cities. Some cities in this area could have held up to 90,000 people.
>> Farz: Wait, Taylor, Like, Mexican people look like. They look like Mexican people. Are those. Is that, like, the Mayan gene that makes them.
>> Taylor: A lot of it is. A lot of it is like, an. The indigenous people who used to live there. And a lot of it is Mayan. Yes. Not all of it, of course, but, like, a lot of it is. There's a lot of Mayan people. Like, the most are in Guatemala at the right now, but there are a lot of people who have, like, Mayan ancestry in those places.
>> Farz: Sweet. Okay, thank you.
>> Taylor: So by the time the Spanish got there in the 1500s, things were not in a golden age. There was a lot of kingdoms and a lot of things that had actually collapsed. And the Mayan civilization, a lot of it had already had its heyday and that. And it was onto, like, a different, you know, whole different rulers, whole different things, because this area is not great for huge populations. It has periods of intense rain with periods of intense drought. So it's hard to, like, have big cities here. I mean, now it's easier because of technology. But, like, ancient times, it was hard to live there. The land does not lend to farming and agriculture. You can slash and burn maybe three times before the land is ruined and you have to move. It's on, like, a limestone bedrock, so it's hard to farm there. The primary food of the Mayan people was maize, which is, like, corn. You would eat it, like, in an oatmeal or a tamale. You would not have a tortilla yet until later. So, like, the ancient Mayans didn't have tortillas. Also, something that I think is super fascinating is this area doesn't have any natural salt and you need salt to live. So obviously, like, in America, our f****** toothpaste has sodium. I don't know if that's true, but I'm guessing, like, sodium is in everything. Like, we're not going to die for not having any salt, you know?
>> Farz: Right.
>> Taylor: But you need salt to live. And ancient people all over the world figured this out, which I think is just, like unbelievable. They figured it out that, I mean, it's not only in the Yucatan and in, in South America, it's, you know, all over the world. There's actually a book that I read that I'm remembering Now maybe like 15 years ago called Salt, about how cultures had to go out and find ways to add salt to their food to be able to survive because they knew they couldn't live without it. And somehow they figured that out. So in the Yucatan, they would boil seawater or let it air dry.
>> Farz: And that's brilliant.
>> Taylor: Isn't that crazy? And there's a huge business of delivering salt all over the Yucatan via canoes and via canals, which is so cool.
>> Farz: I will say, I don't think it's that impressive that they figured out their body needed salt. Because you've been in situations for where you're like, you know, your body needs something sometimes and you don't even know why you know that. Like, there are times when you, like.
>> Taylor: How do you know that it's salts?
>> Farz: Because you've been in the ocean. Because you've been in the ocean. You're like, some of it got in your mouth and you felt better and you took your board shorts. You just like, scraped off the salt into your face.
>> Taylor: Okay. Oh, good. Thank you. Thank you for solving that, that ancient mystery for me. I appreciate it.
>> Farz: I'll read that Salt book wise 39 year old.
>> Taylor: Totally. Anyway, I think that's super cool. We also know that they drank and ate chocolate. So, like, you know, that was something that they started cultivating very early. I actually went to the Cadbury's Museum in England and it was all fun and games until you get to the part where they show the conquistadors invading and you're like, it's like these like mannequins of conquistadors, like, stealing chocolate from the natives and it's pretty s*****.
>> Farz: We got chocolate from the Mayans.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: Whoa. Okay. That's a big get. Yeah, that's a huge get.
>> Taylor: Yeah. We didn't have it before. Got it from them, took it to, to Europe. Everyone loves it, obviously, because it's delicious. I also wrote that my trip to the Cadbury Museum wasn't fun because I was very cold and I was being a super b**** about being cold. It was the funny family story now that it's over. Also, Hershey's company has actually funded some expeditions and science things to look into ancient pots they found to find, like, reference to chocolate being. Have being in them, like using carbon dating or whatever. So that's a good thing. It's the least they could do is help fund some Mayan excavations.
>> Farz: Yeah, well, so basically, Easter and Halloween, two of America's favorite holidays, wouldn't exist but for the Mayans.
>> Taylor: I mean, you can. You can have those holidays without chocolate, but I don't know.
Also in this area, fresh water is very hard to find
It helps, I guess Peeps.
>> Farz: Yeah, I guess Peeps. I guess you can eat peeps.
>> Taylor: It's a great, great discovery. Good job.
>> Farz: Yes. Yes.
>> Taylor: Also in this area, fresh water is very hard to find. Gathers in a thing called the cenote. Do you know what a cenote is?
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: Yeah. So it's like freshwater sinkhole that goes into underground caves and that's where the water would. Would stay. There is a octonauts episode for parents who might watch the octonauts. It's these animals. They're under sea explorers. It's great. But there's a whole, like, longer episode called the Cave of Sakatun where they go to the Yucatan and one of them gets lost in the cenote. And when they go to the cenote, there's these like, Mayan carvings and there's two iguanas that are like, on the side. And the iguanas go. Not everyone who goes into the cenote comes out of the cenote. That's very fun. And it's. It's a great, great show. So several things about cenotes is they find human bones in the bottom of cenotes all the time. It could have been sacrifice, which we'll talk about later. But also, people could have just fallen into it and drowned. And then also I just wanted to make another blanket statement to never go in an underwater cave because.
>> Farz: Oh, God. Yeah. That's my favorite. My favorite pastime when I want to scare the s*** out of myself is I watch YouTube videos of underwater cave diving. This is the scariest thing I can possibly like. I would. It's incredible how horrible wave it is to die.
>> Taylor: Oh, my God. There's like four people in the world who are qualified, and you're not one of them. Everyone listening?
>> Farz: Yes.
>> Taylor: Terrifying. So that's how they got their water and these like big, scary sinkholes full of water. There are a lot of pyramids and cities that we see in. In that area. And the way we see them now, they're, like, abandoned, and there's, like, trees going through them. Like, you can picture it, everyone. But actually, a lot of the trees would have been cut down when they were being used. So you could have technically, like, stood on the top one of those pyramids, and you would have seen a city. You would have seen houses and people and markets and, like, tons of things happening, and the trees would have been cut down for a while. But now, obviously, they're back. And like I said before, I think with going back to Pompeii, going back to the Battle of Hastings, where are. All we have is that one. That one banner to tell us what had happened. That tapest. There's so much that we're missing because we're missing the fabric and we're missing the wood and we're missing the sounds and we're missing the smells and we're missing the color. So there's so much life in history that we don't get to see because only the stone is what survives, right? So it's just crazy. And I just wish we had. I wish we could just, like, turn it on for a second and, like, see what it was like, you know, and then, like, turn it off because it'd be scary, and then turn it back on again because you'd be like, what am I doing? Oh, my God. And then turn it off. I think that'd be so fun.
White people say that ancient Mayans couldn't have built pyramids
And we also fars, you and I have talked about ancient. Ancient aliens. And I'm not gonna pretend that I didn't love it when it first came out because it's such a fun idea. I love mysteries. I love that you're like, what is this stone relief trying to tell us? Because most of what we have is just stone relief carving. What does it mean? It would be so fun if it was aliens. But obviously what we know now is a problem with ancient aliens is that what they're saying is that these people couldn't have done it. It must have been aliens. So, like, brown people couldn't have done it. It. Maybe it was aliens. Maybe it was, like, the Catholics thought, maybe they're one of the lost tribes of Israel. That's like a story. I don't know. But white people just saying that, like, brown people couldn't have built these things, but they did. Don't be an a******.
>> Farz: I didn't even know this was a thing. Until someone told me. Or you.
>> Taylor: Yeah, yeah, whatever. Lindsay brought it up. Yeah. So that's a bummer, because Ancient Aliens was fun, but. But no, the Mayans built them themselves, and there are probably about a thousand pyramids in the Yucatan at different periods of time. And the reason that it's so freaking amazing is they didn't have the wheel or steel, so they did it all, like, with flint, like, carving out limestone, which they said in one of the things. Like, that's easy to do. I'm like, that sounds hard to me. Just like cutting a big brock out of block out of limestone with another rock. And they made concrete out of the dust, and they mined jade and precious things. So they did all this stuff with pretty Stone Age materials. Like, they didn't see steel until the Spanish got there.
>> Farz: Whenever I picture Ancient Aliens and the Mayans, I picture the entire anthology of Predator raising aliens to hunt and that humans were the caretakers of. Or, no, they were the slaves of the predators, and they cared for the alien babies. No, no, they. No, no. It was. It was. The aliens needed human prey, and so they used the Mayans as a sacrifice to feed to the baby so they could grow up and become aliens who could be hunted by pre.
>> Taylor: We definitely watched all the Predator movies recently because that new one came out.
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: Like, the girl. I should watch them all again. I don't remember, but I believe you.
>> Farz: That's what I think of as aliens in Mayans. That's where my head goes.
>> Taylor: That is so fun. Those movies are great.
>> Farz: Yes.
>> Taylor: A delight.
Dr. Elizabeth Graham says human sacrifice aspect of Mayan history is untrue
So we also know that, you know, during this is like, oh, my God, during thousands of years of time, there's tons of wars, obviously, between different factions and different sections, and there's gruesome battles, like there is over the whole f****** world for all of time. So the history hit podcast I listened to with Dr. Elizabeth Graham was really interesting, and she has spent a lot of time in the Yucatan, like, picking things up and being an archaeologist and being dope. And she makes a point that I didn't really read anywhere else, but I thought was really interesting that she thinks that the human sacrifice aspect that you think of when you think of the Mayans is not true. She calls it fake news because she's a delight. And she also called it the Mel Gibsonization of history because, like, his movie Apocalypto makes him look very, very brutal because he's. Well, it's a story, but also he's racist. So, you know, it might not. It may not have been that way. We also don't know, but she has some good points. So when I brought. When I brought this book, though, where they burn books, they also burn people on vacation. Some of. Some of my cousins were like. One guy was like, well, aren't the Mayans the ones that. That sacrifice people? And I was like, well, I. We don't know. We don't know the details. Don't you want to know the details? Don't you wish we had the details? And he was like, yeah, I guess. I was like, it's not like we would discount their history because we thought they had this brutality. Then you discount all history. There's brutality everywhere.
>> Farz: So where did the. Where did it originate that they sacrifice people?
>> Taylor: So here's what. She's. What Dr. Graham said that I thought was really interesting. She said there's also things that could be lost in translation, because there's a lot we have not translated. The word sacrifice means to make holy. So it could have been like an anointing of someone or, you know, there's. They're very religious. There's a lot of different gods. So it could have been, like, anointing people for different gods. It could have been just animals. And, you know, we saw that over, over again in Rome and Greece and, you know, all over the world where people sacrifice animals to gods for a good harvest, for rain, for whatever, you know.
>> Farz: But why isn't it bad to assume that they would have sacrificed a human?
>> Taylor: It's not bad. It's just like, it might not be true.
>> Farz: Okay.
>> Taylor: That assumption might not be true. Which is interesting, because that's understanding, like, one of the first things that you think of, you know?
>> Farz: Yeah, okay.
>> Taylor: And it could have been, she says, like, just in war, like, it could have been cutting people's heads off after war, which they did in France until, like, the 1970s, you know, they're literally doing that.
>> Farz: The cartels in ISIS are literally doing that today.
>> Taylor: Exactly. So if that's all you have of this culture, that's what you'll think they did all the time. You know, like, lots of heads and spikes, lots of, you know, warnings. Like, in Europe, they did that all the time. So she talks about, like, the rules of engagement, of war. So when. Like, when. When a Marine sniper comes back from war, we don't put him in jail for killing a hundred people, you know, even though technically he murdered a hundred people. So it's like, you know, we hear what we want to hear about this. So we see those stories, and we see maybe like a. A carving of like someone holding a head. And we think like, that's what they did all the time, but might not be true. And it's something that we might never ever know really. But just think about if all you knew about us was like the Bible and the movie Oppenheimer, you could be like, what the.
>> Farz: I mean, in the anthology, it's actually the predators who are sacrificing the human. So the sacrifice, human sacrifice did happen, but it was just a different being that did it.
>> Taylor: Who was hunting the humans, the predators or the aliens?
>> Farz: No, the predators were hunting the aliens, but they needed the aliens to be raised to grow up and become like big and healthy so they could have like a fair fight.
>> Taylor: Got it.
>> Farz: Yes. And that's why in the movie, the second to last one, the Predator makes friends with the humans because they were like, we gotta kill these things because they're like rabid dogs. Like, they're uncontrollable.
>> Taylor: They got out of control. They're like, it's a raptors in Jurassic Park. They should have done it.
>> Farz: Yes. And then, and then, and then the T. Rex shows up. Except the T. Rex. You know what? This is not working anymore. Let's keep going.
>> Taylor: No, I like it. I like we're going with that. I think we should, we should have a movie night where we watch all eight of those or whatever, the original ones also I feel like the like making things invisible and stuff. It's not bad, like for being a 20 year old movie, you know, Predator.
>> Farz: Holds up way better than the original Alien and then Aliens. I know that it's a James Cameron thing and everybody loves it, but you watch it again, you're like, this is so stupid looking like it is. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So. But whereas Predator holds up a lot better, I think.
>> Taylor: Yeah, I definitely watched Alien and I was like, oh, that's a dude in an alien costume.
>> Farz: So obviously a dude in alien costume.
>> Taylor: But it has the best scene in the world where they're eating.
>> Farz: Oh yeah, that's true, that's true.
>> Taylor: That's like one of the best scenes in all cinema.
>> Farz: Chest bursters. Yep.
>> Taylor: Okay, great. So anyway, the point is the Spanish needed. The Spanish wanted and needed them to be brutal, so who knows?
Every culture has a, has a flood myth. So the great flood myth is really fun because there's also probably controversial show
But I just wanted to bring up that other idea that Dr. Graham had. We also know that the Mayan people knew a lot about science and math. They calculated Venus's orbit. They were specifically focused on Venus to like 0.2. They thought it was 400 and it's actually 399.98. Or whatever the calculation is. They were very close. They also had complicated calendar which we know about, and that ended in 2012 maybe. And they had a ton of books for thousands of years. But also because of the climate, a lot of the books didn't make it because they would get like moldy and like rot away. So there's also that. But they had, they were, you know, had science, they had math. They also had obviously a very complex religion, many gods for different things. They had a couple of general creation myths where other people were made and they were made of clay and didn't work. And then they were made of brick and it didn't work. And then there was a great flood and then they made our people. So the great flood myth is really fun because there's also probably controversial show called Ancient Apocalypse that I really like. And that's the one that we were watching. We were like, this is so fun. Every culture has a, has a flood myth. Like, what happened? And then Joe Rogan was on it and we were like, oh, I think.
>> Farz: I told you Joe Rogan is not a bad person. Like, it is. This is like this crazy. No, it's, it's okay. Whatever. We don't. I'm not going to talk about it.
>> Taylor: But I was like, oh, that this show loses its credibility.
>> Farz: It is always people who've literally never listened to him, who are like, Jesus, he's a right wing Republican crazy person. It's like, no, he's not. Nobody who's listening to him thinks that.
>> Taylor: Right. That's the point.
Some of the ways we know about, about mayan culture is one
Okay, Anyway, so also the ending of 2012, the movie was very much like the flood and they all went back to Africa. It was quite delightful. So we know that they had royal courts. There was also royal etiquette, which I didn't think about until recently, that etiquette is made to make poor people feel bad about themselves because you would couldn't like sneak into court because you wouldn't know how to follow the rules. So they like made it clear that only certain people could do certain things. That was something that they did to keep the pores out. And some of the things. So those are some of the things that we know. There's a lot more to that. There's thousands of books that you can read now about it of people who devote their lives to Mayan culture. But here's one really f****** cool thing. Some of the ways we know about, about mayan culture is one, in 1864, a Dutch engineer named SA, the letters van Braam found a carving called The Leiden plaque that has a calendar and some helpful things in it that helped translate some things. And that was really, really helpful to, like, start understanding more about them. And then the really cool thing. In El Salvador, there is a city called Serenity. And as luck would have it, in 595, guess what destroyed the city of Suren?
>> Farz: A flood?
>> Taylor: A volcano.
>> Farz: Whoa.
>> Taylor: It is the North American Pompeii that you have never heard of on your.
>> Farz: Series is going to be another. It's gonna be eight now, isn't it?
>> Taylor: Oh, my God. On an August night, the Loma caldera volcano erupted.5 meters of ash covered the area from excavations. It was buried until a bulldozer found it in 1978. So buried and forgotten, just like Pompeii and Herculaneum were. They found dinner on the table in people's houses. It's a small village. They found four households so far. One sweat bath, a civic building, a sanctuary, and fields. They can tell that people had kitchen gardens. So they. Out in their backyard, they had gardens that had beans, squash, cotton, agave, avocados, guava, cacao, all sorts of things, like growing right outside their house. In one of the houses, there's four buildings. There's a garden, there's a thatched, like, evidence of a thatched roof. Columns, there's storage jars. One had fibers and seeds with a spindle by it. So they would have used it to, like, make fabric in there. One of the kitchens has shelves and has beans and other foods, like, in containers, they can tell that chili peppers hang. Hung from the rafters. So super cool that we have that little bit of.
>> Farz: A.
>> Taylor: Little bit of a look into it. Obviously, people died, but it's still really cool. The volcanoes have given us these glimpses into the past, you know, super cool.
So just a smidge about the Spanish conquest, the first to show up
Okay, now, do you feel like you have a really good overview of the Mayan culture?
>> Farz: I think I have appropriate context.
>> Taylor: Okay, perfect. So we know a lot of those basics for various reasons. We found some things we've translated some things we've, you know, we have some. Some ruins. The rest of what we know is both is because of Friar Diego Delanda in the William Gates, who wrote the introduction to Diego's. Friar Diego's book. Yucatan before and after the conquest said 99 of what we know is because of Friar Diego, and 99 of what we lost is also because of him. So this. I feel like I don't say that enough, but I really feel it in this. In this instance was born Diego Delanda Caldron on November 12th, 1524, in Guadalajara, Spain. In 1541, he became a Franciscan friar. And in 1549 he arrived in the Yucatan. He mostly lived in Ismail, which is now in Mexico. So he arrived specifically to convert the native people to Catholicism.
>> Farz: Okay, I'm with you. I'm with you.
>> Taylor: So the first. So just a smidge about the Spanish conquest, the first to show up was of course, Christopher Columbus on his fourth trip. So he showed up. They brought disease. Some villages were destroyed by disease before the Spanish even got there. Because it like spread so fast. You know, people would just like. Of their normal trade routes, the normal communication. Like, it spread so fast. So many people died. They also brought weapons the natives have never seen. They brought steel. They hadn't seen swords. They hadn't seen steel tip arrows. They hadn't seen these things that could like destroy someone in such a quick way. They also just killed and destroyed because they're trying to find gold, which is like a gross over simplification of what happened.
>> Farz: But it was the fountain of youth.
>> Taylor: That'S in there, but like mostly gold.
>> Farz: Okay.
>> Taylor: Yeah. Which it doesn't even really have. It's not. There are no streets of gold.
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: Anywhere. So some of the Spanish are there to get rich. And those who did, they enslaved the natives, obviously. They also brought slaves from Africa. Like it was, you know, bad. And they used the natives to help with their mining and farming and whatever. And then some of the Spanish were there to convert natives. And this was mostly the Franciscan friars. The friars would go on foot all over the Yucatan. So these would like yell the Bible at people and like think that it's working. And it reminds me of that guy in the boat that tried to go to that island, remember that we talked about before? It was like holding up his Bible and then like they.
>> Farz: Oh, yeah.
>> Taylor: And they like shot him. Because like you. I don't. I. There's a lot of it that does not compute in my brain. But just like yelling at someone in Spanish and holding the Bible who has no idea what you're talking about. Like, what do you think is going to happen?
>> Farz: I hope they were mostly shot.
>> Taylor: And a lot of it is. People were like, it boils my blood. It just makes me so mad. Like, what do you think is happening with coming to people's houses, being like, here? And you're like, what? I don't understand you. What is this? Like, it is.
>> Farz: It is a uniquely awful trait of Christianity because like, if you think about it like other religions. Well, I don't know. I guess Islam does try to convert, but like Judaism is probably the best version where it's like, no, we're not trying to convert anybody. Like if you think that you, this is your faith and you can come to us, but nobody's, nobody's out there trying to get you. It's so weird.
>> Taylor: It's so weird. And I do, I mean, I try to be like. I don't know, I try to think maybe if, if I truly believed in my heart that someone was going to live an internal hellfire for all of eternity if they didn't do what I told them to do, then like, like, maybe I try to save people. Like I, But I, I don't have that. I, that is bananas to me. I would never believe that. So I can't, I can't.
>> Farz: Miss me that missed me entirely.
>> Taylor: Yeah, so I don't know, but it sounds like. So a lot of the natives did eventually go to church. You know, they built big monasteries and they would teach them Spanish and like read from the Bible, often in Latin of course. So like, even more confusing.
Taylor: You gotta look at message from the perspective of the people receiving it
>> Farz: But you know, Taylor, one thing that just occurred to me is you also gotta look from the perspective of the people who are receiving that message. Here you have these folks who show up who dress in this finery, well developed clothes and they have books which are probably a new technology, new concept to them. They have weaponry that looks out of this world. How much different would it be if like aliens showed up to us and we're like, hey guys, this is how you are not going to burn forever. Like you don't.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: Most of the time I look at this from perspective like those people for doing that to those people. Because we can see objectively the of it all. But if you look at it sometimes from the perspective like them, it's like you can see why they're like, oh, we're not like being. This is not like a punishment to us. This is a blessing. Like these guys are giving us something that we would never have on our own. I don't know, just a different perspective, I guess.
>> Taylor: No, I know, but they also like took advantage of that, you know, that they were, they had more stuff. And the friars like didn't have all the gold, but they had the like ideas. And a lot of the native people were like, cool, another God, whatever, you know, they were like, oh, I have a soul. Great. I didn't know I had a soul. That's awesome. I'll pray to your God for my soul, but I'm going to pray to this guy for Rain and this guy for corn, like I have been doing for millennium, you know?
>> Farz: Right, right.
>> Taylor: And you're like, great. They're like, this is no big deal. But the Catholics hated that because there's only one God, you know, so they were like, you can't do that. So Friar Diego would walk for days and days finding people to convert, bringing them back to the monastery. He said that he saw human sacrifices and he once stopped a sacrifice of a boy. And I don't really. I don't know if I believe him. Like, I don't know. He need. He needed that to happen. You know, I have a random blow point that's also. He smelled terrible.
>> Farz: How do we know that?
>> Taylor: Because he was wearing like a Franciscan frock in the middle of Mexico.
>> Farz: Yeah, it's like a. It's gonna launch out easy.
>> Taylor: So he also is not just a normal priest, Catholic priest. He was also someone who believed that Christ was coming back in the year 1600. So he needed to convert as many people as possible to be ready for that, for a whole new age where the Catholic Church would dismantle and it would be a new age. And he needed to be at like the top of the whatever of the poll for that. And the way he would do that is converting the most Maya people and like, native people as possible. Spoiler alert. Christ is never coming back. He never left. It's not real. He didn't come back 1600. He's not coming back now. So. But he was doing this for this idea, this other extra crazy idea that he had. So they would do things like burn villages to get them to move closer to the. To the monastery, like, trying to save people as possible, but in that way, like, tons of people died. They didn't have enough food, you know, they didn't have enough water. They. You can't just. People live in places, so because they can survive there, you know, they were just like forcibly move them so tons of people died. And he was so, like, he has so much religious fervor that they did like you said, they did trust him. They did say, like, this guy must have something. Like, this guy's crazy about this God. He must. Maybe he knows something, you know, so they would. Some of like the Mayan priests and religious people showed him their books and showed him their idols and showed him the histories of their people that they had written down. And Friar Diego was like, oh, obviously these are written by the devil. And this is all the devil. Like, the devil has time. Like, he has time to make up a whole Religion. Give me a break.
>> Farz: I wish I had, like, an ounce of the confidence idiots have all the time. All the time.
>> Taylor: I just got a. I got a magnet and I put it in the fridge that says, carry yourself for the confidence of a mediocre white man. Certain is my motto.
>> Farz: What's that? What's up? Bukowski saying it was my favorite saying. It was like. It was like, the problem with the world is that the stupid people, the confident people are too quiet and the stupid people are too loud or. I forgot what it was. It was like. No, it was very, very. It was very good. But it's that concept, like, just like, man, you are so confident. You have to be right. But it's like, it's always a dumb one, just never the fight.
>> Taylor: I know, I know.
Friar Diego burned all of the history of the Mayan people
So anything that isn't God. God is the devil. So the devil made all these other gods. The devil made all these idols. And idols means like, little, like, wooden stone, clay, statues of their other gods that they've had for, you know, thousands of years. So he starts to hear that people are still praying to their old gods and just added God, God to their, like, prayer book, and he loses his f****** mind. And so Friar Diego has an inquisition where he ties people up by their arms and has weights put on their. Their. On their waist and on their feet. And so their. Their arms come out of the socket, their legs come out of the socket until they confess they have idols of their homes. So, like, yes, I have a book. Yes, I have a couple statues that I pray to. And then they would have to, like, you know, like any torture, just say whatever he wanted until he let them go. And then afterwards, he was like, no one was really hurt like you. They were. They're absolutely hurt. Absolutely hurt from this. And so he made everybody go home and go to their family cave where they have everything that their family has had for hundreds of years and go to their, you know, go to their villages, go to these ancient temples, go to these places and bring everything to him, every book they could find. Because there were books, every idol they could find, and put them in a pile. And on July 12, 1562, he held a ceremony where he burned. He sent 27 books, but they think it might have been thousands of books and at least 5,000 idols. So he burned all of the history of the Mayan people, not just their religion, but their history.
>> Farz: How did he have the authority for this?
>> Taylor: He just said he was. He was the good question. He was, like, one of the highest ranking people in. In, like, The Friarness, like, they had like leaders and stuff.
>> Farz: No, I mean, like, didn't. Why didn't. Did. Did Mayans feel strongly about their own belief structure and want to, like, could they have challenged him or.
>> Taylor: I think they were afraid. They didn't. They were afraid.
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: You know, like he had these weapons and he was like. And they were also, like, confused about God, you know, like.
>> Farz: Right, It's.
>> Taylor: He just went in, he like scared the s*** out of them and then he hurt them and then he stole their stuff and then he burned it. He said, quote, we found a large number of books in these characters, meaning the Mayan characters. And as they contained nothing in which were not to be seen as superstition and lies of the devil, we burn. Burned them all, which they, the Maya regretted to an amazing degree and which caused them much affliction. And I wrote you.
>> Farz: Yeah, you.
>> Taylor: Oh, my God. So he also believed that this would bring Christ back faster. I wrote you twice, because. Yeah, so awful. And he did get sent back to Spain to justify what he did because people were like, that was a little intense, you know, like, you maybe shouldn't have done that. And while he was in Spain, he wrote the history of the Mayans. And his book is the only book we have that has the history of the Mayan written down from his perspective, from what he heard before he burned everything.
>> Farz: An account of the things of Yucatan. God, he looks annoying.
>> Taylor: He's worst. So he actually spoke their language and knew their writing enough. He wrote an Alphabet of the Mayans. It's a mix of hieroglyphics and sounds. It wasn't totally correct and actually didn't get really cracked until a Soviet code guy did it in the 1950s, which is cool. So Friar Diego's dumb memory is the best thing we have. So we're lucky that he wrote it down in the same way that it's his fault that he had to write it down.
>> Farz: Makes sense. I get that.
>> Taylor: You know, and it's all through his f***** up lens of being like, this must be the devil. So he was sent back to Spain by the bishop of the Yucatan to go on trial for his illegal inquisition. And the Council of the Indies, whatever that means, was like, they condemned it. But in 1569, they absolved him of his crimes. The bishop of the Yucatan died and he went back and became the second bishop of the Yucatan, where he continued to, like, be in charge of the friars and be in charge of the Catholic conversion. And he died there. When did he die? He died in The Yucatan.
>> Farz: He died in 1579.
>> Taylor: In 1579. Back in the land that he helped destroy. No.
>> Farz: Interesting guy. He did a lot. He accomplished a lot. But, yeah, he's the worst. Okay, well, that's unfortunate. You know, I. I brought this up to you in an episode forever ago. I don't even remember which it was, but it was. I was going through this phase where I would, like, watch these, like, narco stuff, like these cartel videos and like, real life stuff, not like the. The show of, like, what they would do to each other and all that kind of stuff. And I think I, like, phrase you. I was like, dude, it's crazy. It's like these people are, like, from, like, Mayan ancestry. They're like warriors. And like. Like, they're doing. Cutting each other's heads off over, like $5 of swag weed. And like. But, like, that is the downstream impact of, like, colonization when you take. He's like.
Taylor: Having an identifiable American culture is crucial to human identity
So somebody said something interesting me once, which is like, well, like, how, like, there really isn't, like, an identifiable American culture. How, like, being raised American, there's, like, swaths of it. Like, there's different variations of it. And so. So having some sort of, like, a root rooted, a foundational grasp of a culture is like a thing that humans generally need to feel part of something. And when you take that away through things like Christianity and, like, it's just. It's just the most perverse thing. Like. Yeah, it's like you're taking away, like, someone's ability to identify with their mom, dad, grandparents, their land. They're like, so perverse.
>> Taylor: Yeah, it's pretty awful. And it's just, I. You know, my biggest crisis is, like, we don't know what happened in most of history. And then like, the fact that it was, like, at our fingertips and then destroyed, I think is so crazy.
>> Farz: And like, here's. Okay, like. Like when. Oh, my God, what was it when? It was when ISIS was rolling through Syria, destroying all those statues and the library. In the library. It's like humans never change. Like, we are uniformly, regardless of, like, where we are in the world or cultural religion, uniformly. This is what we do. See someone and think, oh, we gotta change them. It's like, no, people can just be different. That's okay, too.
>> Taylor: That's okay, too. That's cool.
>> Farz: I don't know.
>> Taylor: Well, I like it.
>> Farz: Taylor, thank you for sharing. It sounds.
>> Taylor: I'm excited to not worry about this anymore. Just been so worried about it all day.
>> Farz: I'm excited.
>> Taylor: Yeah. I can't wait.
>> Farz: That's so cool. Like, you're being so creative with this stuff. We are going to start heavily pushing things on the podcast front even more. Taylor was kind enough to order a bunch of stickers that we're gonna. I'm gonna. I guess I should have them by next weekend. And so next weekend, if you're in Austin, be on lookout, because if you're at a coffee shop, I'm gonna be giving you a sticker and ask you to download the podcast.
>> Taylor: So every coffee shop in Austin.
>> Farz: When I was at my conference last week, I was at the bar and I got two or three different people to download the podcast. So.
>> Taylor: Yeah, my. My listener mail this week is. Is coming from me. I'm gonna just. I have my contact list, and I was like, how do I. I like, kind of cleaned it up. Like, I have a list of everyone I've ever met, and then I exported from my Gmail and then I deleted some of the ones that I know aren't real or, like, I don't know them really. And then I have, like 600 people left that I, like, like, might. Might remember me. So I'm gonna start emailing them in batches and have them sign up for substack because I feel like no one's looking at my social media and they don't care. I don't know.
>> Farz: No, everybody loves you. Taylor. Is there. Is our Insta following growing a little bit?
>> Taylor: We're working on it. We are working on it. I also. Maggie, our friend Maggie sent me a post from someone who is posting about history, how history is just gossip for nerds, and that he already covered, like, in the quick little clips, like Eleanor and Oscar wilde, so I DM'd him. And we're laughing about history together as well. So I'm hoping to, like, make friends who have bigger followings and talk about the same things, because we're talking about the same things and they're really fun.
>> Farz: I would love to make friends with anybody that is in this line of topics that we're going through.
Cool. Well, Teller, we will go ahead and cut this off
>> Taylor: Cool.
>> Farz: Well, Teller, we will go ahead and cut this off and. Yeah, no, thank you. And I will join you back here momentarily. Thanks for listening, everyone.