Netflix just released 'The Investigation of Lucy Letby' so let's re-relase our episode on this horrible story!
Netflix just released 'The Investigation of Lucy Letby' so let's re-relase our episode on this horrible story!
Hi Friends! Our transcripts aren't perfect, but I wanted to make sure you had something - if you'd like an edited transcript, I'd be happy to prioritize one for you - please email doomedtofailpod@gmail.com - Thanks! - Taylor
Taylor: I hope you're gonna go get an espresso martini later today
>> Taylor: In the matter of the people of State of California vs. Orenthal James Simpson, case number BA097.
>> Farz: And so, my fellow Americans, ask not what your country can do for you. Sweet. And we are back on Wednesday to discuss a true crime doomed to fail relationship. Taylor, how are you?
>> Taylor: I'm good. How are you?
>> Farz: I'm good. Are you still drinking your cayenne chocolate milkshake ever? No.
>> Taylor: Now I'm just really just drinking this iced coffee. I drink my iced coffee and my smoothies out of cocktail shakers because it makes me feel fancy.
>> Farz: It is fancy. That is a very retro thing, and you are a very retro person. So it all kind of adds up.
>> Taylor: Thank you.
>> Farz: Welcome. I hope you're gonna go get an espresso martini later today.
>> Taylor: I don't even know where I would get one in this town. Make your own, I guess. What do I need? Vodka and espresso?
>> Farz: I don't know. I don't know what martinis are made of. I really don't know. Vermouth. I know vermouth goes in a martini.
>> Taylor: So in an espresso martini, you can't do that. You go, I'll look it up. I'll report back at the end of this.
>> Farz: Sweet.
This week we're discussing infanticide, reasons why people commit it
So I'm gonna go ahead and start my topic. And I actually, similar to Taylor's topic earlier this week, have like a bit of a educational component to mine because I like to educate and entertain. We are edutainment, after all. And I want to start with the logic of how I landed on the topic that I'm going to be discussing today and then discussing it and then everybody applauding it and saying how great it is interviewing it. Five stars on podcasts are huge. So I'm going to start putting out the disclaimer that I have not seen Barbie yet. And, like, it's not for any specific reason whatsoever. It's just at this point, everybody that I would want to see that movie with has already seen it. And so I was like, dude, like, you can't go into the Barbie movie, like, looking the way you look. It's like going to Chuck E. Cheese alone. Like, it just will look weird and like, I don't belong there. And I'm very susceptible to that kind of judgment.
>> Taylor: Do you mean looking like a super young 25 year old?
>> Farz: Super young 25 year old. Like a new bile fresh face like you do? Yes, I do. But I did the next best thing to watching the Barbie movie, which was go on Wikipedia and read the entire plot line of the movie.
>> Taylor: Love it. I do that sometimes as well.
>> Farz: And I basically, I deduce that it ends with this, like, matriarchal versus patriarchal kind of issue discussion debate around how we structure society. So because I'm a true feminist, I decided to focus my research this week on female true crime subjects, on the interest of balancing the equities amongst the genders. Because, ladies and gentlemen, men are not the only ones who are absolute f****** monsters.
>> Taylor: For anybody who has seen Barbie, I can far as is talking to me from his office, where there's a like, a bull skull behind him. And he very much lives in a mojo dojo casa house, if that is something that makes sense to you.
>> Farz: What's mojo dojo? That's an insult. You're insulting me.
>> Taylor: On my birthday, Ken turns Barbie's. You're right. I'm sorry. Ken's. Ken turns Barbie's dream house into a mojo dojo casa house, which is like a house that's just like pictures of horses all over it. Like, they're like, I'm gonna give it say dojo and casa and house. And he's like, it's a house. I can do whatever I want.
>> Farz: Like, okay, so he like, converted to like Ted Turner at some point in the movie and, like, put.
>> Taylor: He's like, wearing a coat. It has a cowboy hat on. And, like, there's like, saloon doors. I feel like.
>> Farz: You get it? Got it, got it. So. So I've seen this screenshot before and now you're helping me place it. Thank you. So, yes, we're going to be discussing, well, one in particular, but there's several others I'm also going to bring up during this. This conversation. So I'm also going to do something kind of unique and. Wait, no, I just rambled on about that. Ignore this part. But the main point is that I'm going to focus my research, or I did focus my research of all these stories on a very common thread, which is the concept of infanticide. Great joy to the. So.
>> Taylor: So you are a true feminist.
>> Farz: A true feminist. Hey, it's like. It's like. It's like being pro choice, except maybe like a little bit past being pro choice.
>> Taylor: So, okay, go ahead.
>> Farz: So we're gonna go into the history of infanticide, reasons why people commit it, and then cover several cases of it. Although just by doing some cursory research, it is clear that infanticide is, like, way more common than it should have been. I'm going to be talking about four case, one primary case of it, and then three others. Just like as a, as an aside, just to show how this works out. But there's so many, there's so many cases. It is, it is crazy how common it is, like for people to kill babies, which is like, not great. Also, I'm going to start off by saying I'm not a scientist.
>> Taylor: Good.
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: So that's good. That's for the best.
>> Farz: So as I research because, because to your point, with like everything you research, it's like there's people who've dedicated their entire lives, like every variation, infanticide from the beginning of human society, based on different cultures, based on political geopolitics. Like, it is a big topic.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: I'm going to just kind of blow through it. And also I'm going to actually categorize it in ways that they don't because I think I'm smarter than them. So I'm going to have my own structure of how I'm going to discuss this.
>> Taylor: Great, great. Continue to mansplain this to the scientists.
>> Farz: So I'm gonna, I'm gonna, I'm gonna do a sorting of infanticide. I'll start by just saying that is babies okay?
>> Taylor: Yeah, yeah. No, I'm just, I'm. I was trying to see if I have my sweatshirt that says on Wednesdays we smash the patriarchy, but I don't have it in this room with me. But I was gonna put it on.
>> Farz: It's Sunday. It doesn't work.
>> Taylor: It's a mean girls joke. Continue.
Infanticide is the intentional killing of an infant not necessarily yours
>> Farz: Okay, so if it's not obvious, infanticide is the intentional killing of an infant, not necessarily yours. It's just the killing of an infant, obviously, because humans are awful. The killing of babies has been a thing since we've had humans and we've had babies.
>> Taylor: Yep.
>> Farz: This is where the non scientist part of me is going to share my hot take on this. And in some cases, I'm going to say that it kind of makes sense to me. I'm not saying it's good or that I condone it. But for example, in like the 1200s, when you were living in feudal England and you were farming the land and eating your shoe leather to survive, and you had a child born with a bunch of deformities and you don't even have enough resources to cover the existing family, then you're like, oh, well, it was not uncommon to kill that baby to preserve resources because it would never grow up to be like productive on a farm situation. I'm not saying it's good. I don't know. Killing babies.
>> Taylor: I get The. I get it.
>> Farz: Okay.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: Similarly, on the resource constraint justification for this, twins or triplets were not like a blessing. Back in the day. There was like, it was those like, oh, s*** moments.
>> Taylor: Terrifying surprise.
>> Farz: A horrible, horrible surprise because you're like, whoa. So I got to deal with all the resource issues I already had times two or three. Like, it was awful.
>> Taylor: My Aunt Kathy had twins in like 1975 and they didn't know that they were twins.
>> Farz: That's crazy. That's crazy. Yeah. So that was another situation where when in the old days, if you had more than one child born at the same time, you just killed one of them or you killed all but one of them, basically. So getting. I want to pivot real quick using my.
>> Taylor: I'm laughing to stop myself from screaming. So I just continue. No, it's fine, go ahead. If someone's like, I can't believe they're laughing at this. Like, you're. You don't get it.
>> Farz: If you need a scream, you scream. So again, being a non scientist, the two classifications I have for this are understandable versus not understandable. So we just covered the understandable version of this. I'm going to go into the non understandable version of this. So fun fact. Native Americans would often kill their infants who were born of a mixed race or mixed ancestry. So for example, if it was like two tribes and like they enter bread, they would kill one that was not like, this is. This is what blows you away. Again, humans have always been like this. Like, humans have always been like this. It doesn't matter what race, what that. None of that matters. Then there's the case of sex selective infanticide, which we discussed in the Surrender Coley episode, which obviously it's like, you know, when I found this really interesting, I went into like the China one one child policy thing. And there's a huge difference in China in the number of boys, the number of girls. And the reason is this, because they. This one child policy. And so they would just. If they had a daughter, they would just kill the kid over and over and over and over again until they got a boy. And now. And now you're like, you have a lopsided gender balance. And I was, you know, I was like, somebody who did this had to have known that this would be the outcome. I don't know the culture, but I would assume that it's common enough to where now you have this lopsided gender issue. So they had to have no swing when they wrote this law. Now they changed it to child. So hopefully that's less of a thing. Then there's the craziest version of infanticide, which is the killing of someone else's child for basically no reason whatsoever. Those are bad. We don't like those at all.
>> Taylor: I like this. Yes. These are some strong stances that I think make a lot of sense.
>> Farz: I'm a scientist, d*** it.
>> Taylor: So that has to do with science.
>> Farz: But like, I don't know. I don't know either. I just say things.
The case of Lucy Letby raises questions about infanticide
So this was in the news as of last week, the concept of infanticide due to the case of Lucy Letby. Does this sound familiar?
>> Taylor: Is she a nurse?
>> Farz: Yes, they're all nurses. We're going to start with her as the main anchor story for today's topic. So Lucy was born in the UK in January of 1990. So she's young, she's 33 years old. Like you can look her up, she looks like a regular 33 year old. Lucy had wanted to be a nurse all of her life and specifically she wanted to be a neonatal nurse. The reason being that she wanted this specific type of job is that apparently her birth was super difficult and her parents and her herself credit her being alive to the nurses that were there when her mom gave birth and kind of brought her back to life and was able to be a normal, healthy baby as she grew up. So she goes to school to become a registered nurse and begins working in the neonatal unit of a Hospital in 2012. Apparently the neonatal units or NICU at a hospital isn't uniformly of the same intensity. Did you know this, Taylor? I didn't know this, no.
>> Taylor: What do you mean? Can finish that sentence though.
>> Farz: So there's. So just because you're in the nicu, just because being being a baby in the NICU or being a nurse in the NICU doesn't mean that you're dealing with like consistently the same pattern of issues. Like they break it down into separate levels. I felt like intensive care is intensive care, but. But that's not the case with babies with babies in the uk. So the US has four levels, the UK has three levels. Level one babies, these are ones that they need more care than a normal baby but are otherwise stable. So like maybe like you're like a two week preemie or. You know what I mean, like you're not that bad of shape on average. The average NICU nurse can handle four of these like per shift. So they have an easier time with these kids. Level two babies in the nicu, these need advanced life support. To maintain their stability, NICU nurses are limited to two babies per shift. They can only handle two. Then you have the most intense. These are level three, where these are like super premature babies. They require constant monitoring, constant supervision. That is a one to one thing. And that's how the NICU kind of breaks down.
>> Taylor: Okay.
>> Farz: So being assigned to level three is kind of a show of confidence in a nurse saying, we think that you can handle the worst of the worst. The worst. We're putting all of our confidence, you to do it. Right, right. In 2015, Lucy was assigned to start working on Level 3 babies. She had mentioned before that she needed the rush. The level three was like the hardest of the hard cases. It did something to her. She didn't want boring cases. She wanted, like, the most intense going going on around her. That same year, Lucy was responsible for taking care of a baby boy who was basically stable and by all accounts, mostly okay, like, shouldn't have just died unsuspectingly. Lucy had was working the night shift at that time. And so the day nurse told Lucy about what her observations were, what to expect. Basically just a full synopsis, debrief of where this kid's at and what to look out for. 26 minutes later, after Lucy takes over, she calls in a doctor as the baby health starts rapidly deteriorating, and this baby that was mostly stable just dies out of the blue.
>> Taylor: Oh, my God.
>> Farz: The day nurse, when she found out about this the next day, was completely shocked because she was. I mean, look, like I dated enough nurses to understand, like, you get a sense of, like, okay, like, this is where this is going to end. Like, it sucks to say. Like, sometimes they're like, yeah, we know that this person's probably going to die. Or we know this person's pretty stable. Like, there's a consistent thing that they totally get. And this nurse was shocked that this kid was dead because nothing would have indicated to her that this would happen. The doctor who attended to the baby noticed some blue and white mottling on the baby, which I didn't know what mottling meant, so I looked at what mottling meant. Mottling means, you know, that weird skin complexion some people get where, like, their skin looks like super white in spots, but then super dark in other spots. And you usually see with, like, super pale people for the most part. You know what I mean? So that's what it is. And what that shows is there's a disruption in blood flow to the vessels that are underneath the skin. Something happened where that that blood vessel Stopped producing enough oxygen going to the skin. So we're going to refer to this baby as child A, which is how reports about this incident in the trial itself classified all of them. So all of the babies are classified from child A to child Q. We are not discussing child T. Yes. We are not discussing all those. We're going to go as far. I think I got as far as P. Yeah, I think I got as far as P. Because some of them, she was not convicted of, but that they are still investigating. Well, that's how we refer to these kids now, because obviously nobody wants them to be public. Child A had a twin sister. We're going to call child B. Oh, no. A little after a day from child A's death, Child B also died after the first death. The parents spent every moment they could with child B. Like, they were so be grieved. They were. They were beneath them, besides themselves. And so they were like, we got to spend every second we have with this kid. Oh, this one was fine, and it just died out of the blue. So we got to do something to make sure we get as much time with this one as possible. The nurses at this hospital were like, guys, you really got to go home and rest. Like, you've been here too long. And so they tell them to go rest. Lucy was the nurse that was responsible for child B. During a designated feeding time where Lucy had custody of the baby, this one suddenly died without warning. Again, no indication why I would die.
>> Taylor: Parents, the saddest thing I've ever heard.
>> Farz: This story is ins. This is. You look at her picture and you read what she did. It gets so much worse. I'm gonna. I'm gonna continue.
An air bubble in your veins can cause heart attack, stroke, brain damage
So in the case of child B, when they autopsied the baby, they realized the child for sure had been injected with air. There was, like. I don't know how they know, but, like, there's something about, like, your blood vessels change or whatever. And that's how they realized this kid had been injected with air. And I didn't actually know what air in your blood vessels does, but it's, like, super bad for you, so.
>> Taylor: Right. That's why they, like, do that thing.
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: You know what I mean?
>> Farz: No. Well, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
>> Taylor: To, like, a. To, like, a shot.
>> Farz: The air bubble out. Yeah. So I looked this up. So an air bubble in your veins can cause heart attack, stroke, brain damage. It can kill you in several different ways. And if it doesn't kill you, it'll horribly debilitate you, because imagine what it can do Is go into your heart, block a vessel so that by the time you're able to unlodge it, you've lost blood, motion or whatever oxygenation to your organs. And so your brain dead. So it didn't even matter that they got it out of your system anyway. So that's what they discovered had happened with child B. Days after child B, diesel child C dies as well. This one was not under Lucy's care, but she was literally witnessed standing over the child when he coded. Coding means like he goes like, yeah, it does that she was standing over the over the kid when he coded. Days later, child D dies from when an autopsy revealed was air injected into her bloodstream. Again, the autopsy pieces like that is the parents saying, yes, cut my child's. Oh, that's why, like some have autopsies and some don't because at this point they don't know to suspect anything wrong. And so they have to ask the parent, you want us to cut your baby open? Like, some of them are like, no, justifiably.
>> Taylor: Right, yeah.
>> Farz: So the suspicious death stopped for about a month until early August of 2015, when a mother came in to check on her baby, child E, and saw that he was bleeding from the mouth and then he died. Later that day, child E's twin brother, child F, suffered a sudden drop in blood pressure with a horribly elevated heart rate. Later that day, text would reveal that he had extremely high quantities of insulin in his system, which was something that was not even medicated. It was not a prescription. There was no reason why he should have any insulin artificially injected into his body. And he did. That's what caused this to happen. That one actually survived. That baby survived.
>> Taylor: Is he okay? Does he have like problems?
>> Farz: That one's okay, this one's not.
Lucy allegedly force fed baby so much milk that it became disabled
So in September, so a month after what she did to child F happened, the nurses were celebrating the hundredth day of life for child G. So again, we're in the Level 3 unit. These people are excited when these kids make it. Right. So it was 100 days after this kid should have been dead. So this was a three month premium. This is a three and a half month premium. So I don't know much about babies, but I assume that's pretty bad. Three and a half months sounds like it's pretty bad, right? Yeah, yeah. So they were celebrating this kid's life. So the nurses had made banners for him and there was cake and they were trying to celebrate this baby's life with the parents and its recovery and all that stuff. Shortly after the baby's health monitor goes critical and doctors revive her. This started 15 minutes after Lucy had started feeding her. They didn't know what Lucy did to this baby. But later on at trial, the expert testimony was that she had apparently force fed this baby so much milk down her feeding tube to try and kill it and her body just couldn't handle it. They ascertained this because the distance of her projectile vomiting was so profound given how small her body was, given that she was a three month pre made that they're like the only way this could have happened was because of some mechanical thing where you try to stuff way too much water in a balloon. And just like first like that's what was going on with this kid. That's what she was trying to say.
>> Taylor: Ever been. It's terrible.
>> Farz: Horrible. It's horrible. That child survived but was disabled. I don't know exactly why force feeding a baby would disable it. I didn't. The details didn't. Weren't provided for that. But it was noted that this child was disabled as a result of this.
>> Taylor: Yeah, there, I mean there, I mean like the. When you first have a baby, they tell you the baby's stomach is like the size of a walnut, barely, you know, like it's very small. So like it would, it would potentially like I think with anyone you like because people die from like drinking too much water. You know, like that's like a thing. But like I think that it probably my guess being someone who's had two babies is that expanded their stomach to like it couldn't handle it.
>> Farz: Yeah, yeah. Well, the baby survived. It's just, it was just like horribly disabled. So I would assume that means that maybe the stomach bursts and they. She has to use some sort of a bag or. I don't know. It's awful. Whatever it is, it's awful. So that was child G. Child I died in October. This is like month, month, month, month. Notice I started with August. August, September. Now we're child I. In October, Lucy was seen hanging around this child's incubator. And another nurse says that Lucy told her the baby looked pale even though they were standing in the doorway of the nursery and the nursery lights were off. Like it was a creepy thing to be like, notice how the baby looks like, what are you talking about? Like we can't even see the kid. And long story short was that that baby also ends up dying and Lucy is the one who. So this was noted by the mother. So that child dies. They don't know what happened. To it. Apparently when a child dies in this situation, the nurse will like bathe the child and then like, you know, give the parents time with it before it' off to whatever. And so Lucy was noted as bathing this child while she was like smiling and like she looked like she was like having a good time, like she was enjoying this. She also asked the mom if she wanted her to take dead pictures of her with her dead baby. Like it was like a weird thing that stood out to the mom and stuff to the other nurses that were kind of on station there. The autopsy for this one revealed that the injuries were consistent with how you'd been injected with air. So that's early October. In late October, management of the hospital started growing concerns. And it was during this period that they noticed that Lucy was always on duty when terrible things happen to these kids. Doctors wanted management to take action, but were apparently told not to make a fuss about this because it would make us all look bad to make the hospital look bad now.
>> Taylor: And so many times ever you hear these stories about doctors messing up. Same with priests. That's like, let's move them to a hospital or different church or whatever. We don't, we don't want to get in trouble.
>> Farz: Taylor, you're dying, you're 100% stepping on this. So what ends up that was, that was October. These doctors kept asking for more meetings with management to be like, guys like, we got to do something, we got to do. So like nothing happened until April. So in April of 2016, that is when Lucy was moved to the day shift.
>> Taylor: And then lo and behold, no babies dies.
>> Farz: No babies die. The night shift. So days after she has moved into the day shift, Child M and his twin brother Child L's vitals suddenly crash and they had to be revived. One was presumed to have been injected with insulin and the other was presumed to been injected with air. A month later in May, another emergency meeting was called by the doctors of the management to discuss all these suspicious death. And apparently nothing came out of that convers conversation either. Then in June again, a month later, Lucy seems to have escalated her method of killing or trying to kill. This was intense. This is like where you get. She's like f****** ballistic. This is when she physically starts attacking babies. Like, I mean she was physically attacking them anyways, but this is more like blunt force trauma attacking the child. So I was like, I wrote, I was like, dude, what an insane thing to like write down and then read into a microphone. That's when she starts physically attacking the babies.
>> Taylor: Oh My God.
>> Farz: So child N suffered trauma to his throat. Nurses just heard him screaming, and when they rushed and they noticed swelling in his throat and blood splatter around the mouth. The assumption being that she put her arm, her form on this baby's neck and just kind of held it there. But they don't know. They don't know for sure what happened with this kid. It's just like he suffered bad, bad injuries to his throat.
Three babies died at the same hospital where Lucy worked. Out of those, three were killed
On June 23 and June 24, this is the final attempts that we know of occurred. These were a set of triplets, two of which were killed. Out of those, three were killed. Child 1 Of the triplets, child O. His vitals dropped. And it was recommended by a junior nurse to Lucy, who was a senior nurse on staff, to move the child to a more intensive part of the. Of the unit. And Lucy disagreed. Shortly thereafter, the child dies. An autopsy of this child would reveal evidence of air being injected into his body in liver damage that was reported. Reported to be consistent with what you would see in a car crash.
>> Taylor: Oh, my God.
>> Farz: So she did something to this kid beyond just like blood force trauma to. How much does a newborn weight? Are they like eight pounds? Like, what do you.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: No, you do this to like, a crazy. And this way, like, this is where like, the escalation really picked up. Thirteen minutes later, after this child is dead, Lucy is feeding child pee, which is the other triplet, when he also goes critical. And a doctor's examination revealed that his diaphragm was shattered and this baby died before they. Before this baby died. Doctors have requested an ambulance to take him to a different hospital because presumably they had some facility there that was better than the hospital he was currently in. When the hospital arrived, child P was already dead. The parents. The parents begged the management of the. Of the hospital to let them take their surviving triplet to this other hospital. And they did. And this is where, like, this is part. Like, my hair stand up. This is when everybody looked around like, oh, f***. Like this. This chick's nuts. Like this. These babies have injuries consistent with, like, a car crash.
>> Taylor: Right.
>> Farz: And they die within 30 minutes. Like, this is what this is when, like, everybody was like, we can't just pretend this isn't happening anymore.
>> Taylor: So cameras in, like, the nursery. Where is she with them?
>> Farz: I don't know. Yeah, I don't know if. I mean, it should be cameras. Yeah, that's a good question. I don't know. She would do. She would also do a lot of things where she would falsify records. So for example, she would do. She would change, like, feeding times to times when she wasn't on shift, or she would change the name of the nurse that was during feeding. She would try to do things like obfuscate her involvement. They were like. But they were witnesses. So people were like, yeah, that was Lucy. Like, you know, the one consistent thing was it was always Lucy was there.
>> Taylor: So still babies.
>> Farz: Yeah, yeah. And this situation with these triplets, that was kind of the final straw, where everybody looks around and looks at Lucy and they're like, oh, we have a huge problem here. At this point, it almost felt like she wasn't even really trying to cover it up, because, again, these two in particular were violent deaths. Like, they. They like, she. These kids up. Like, which is like, a horrible way to put it, but, like, she really damaged them badly physically. So this was different than the other ones, where a lot of times it would crash, and then they'll be revived. There was no reviving these kids. They're. They're. Their bodies were destroyed. And so this is where things kind of stepped up. And it would be three weeks after these killed, the death of these triplets that she was formally removed from the hospital. And then all the deaths stopped. For context, I looked this up. That hospital had two baby deaths in the preceding five years before Lucy. Like, this volume of deaths was, like, way outside the dorm. So it would take about a year after Lucy was discharged when she was arrested. She was arrested in July of 2018. She was originally arrested on eight counts of murder, six attempted murder. But as the investigation dragged on, the charges kept racking up. She ended up somewhere around seven charges of murder and 15 of attempted murder. Her trial began in October of 2022, and she pled not guilty. During the trial, it was revealed that people who worked at the hospital had suspected Lucy pretty early on and argued management to have her removed. The obvious reason why everyone suspected Lucy, like I mentioned before, was that on every One of these 25 suspicious incidents of a child dying or almost dying, Lucy was there. And when she wasn't there, nothing happened. Which is like a pretty big, obvious toe.
>> Taylor: So obvious. Again, when you're in the hospital, like, you trust. Do you trust that the nurse is not gonna kill your baby?
>> Farz: That's the point. That's part of, like, sucked.
The worst reading about was the story of the triplet parents
The worst reading about was, like, the story of, like, the. The triplet parents, because they were like. The parents were like, this isn't normal. Like, we're not doctors, but this is not normal. Both two of our kids had no issues they died. Give us the other one. We don't care that it needs support right now. We have to take it out of this hospital. You guys are killing our kids. Like, it's crazy.
>> Taylor: Yeah. Oh, my God.
British woman sentenced to life without parole for murdering seven babies at hospital
>> Farz: So on August 18th of this year, Lucy. So like. Like, literally a week ago, I can't believe she was.
>> Taylor: I think I saw it on the news. Yeah.
>> Farz: She was found guilty of seven counts of murder and seven counts of attempted murder. There's actually additional cases because she worked at another hospital before this where there's a large number of child deaths. So they're, like, looking at those cases too, to see, like, where she might have fit in there as well. She ended up getting what's called a. A whole life term, which is life without the opportunity for parole. And she is the fourth woman in the history of the UK to receive that sentence, alongside Myra Henley, Rosemary west, and Joanna Dennehy. Crazy. Crazy. Horrible, horrible. So motive wise, several things have been positive. One was that she was really infatuated with this one doctor who was also. It was a married doctor who worked at the hospital, and he was on the unit, was regularly. The one that was called in when. When a child went critical. And this was, like, her way of trying to be around him or whatever. Another one was, there was a written note that detectives found that basically talked about how jealous Lucy was that she would never. She was talking, I'm never gonna be able to get married. I'm gonna be able to have my own family and have my own kids. So there's like, a jealousy thing of, like, these people for having. I don't know. Like, it's hard to nail down. Like, I think that sometimes people are just f***** in the head and there's no fixing them. And I think Lucy kind of fits into that category.
>> Taylor: Yeah.
>> Farz: What do you think she did it.
>> Taylor: Because she could, like, power? I don't know. Yeah, you know, because she, like. Because, I mean, it sounds like she went though. But why would she go in and be like, I was saved by NICU nurse and. But I. And then, like, maybe feeling like she could never save a baby or maybe did she want to save a baby at any time?
>> Farz: That was one thing, too. They found that. Yeah, one thing they found, too, was that. That she wrote that she's not good enough and she doesn't deserve to be, like, in charge of these kids. And it was like a weird. It was a weird. She was right. She's not gonna die. Like, she nailed that part.
>> Taylor: But I feel like sometimes people, like, I don't know. I have no. I can't think of an example. But, like, in, like, hospitals, they'll, like, make someone sick and then make them better, you know, and then, yeah, be like, oh, I. I saved this person. They were, like, dying, but, like, they're the ones who did it, so. But it doesn't sound like she ever had any intention of saving them.
>> Farz: No, she couldn't. She couldn't because, like, what she would do to them would require, like, doctors and surgery. Like, it was, like, drastic medical intervention. So. Yeah, she seems like a f****** crazy b****. That's what she kind of sounds like.
>> Taylor: What a crazy b****. I don't. I don't understand. Like, I just obviously thank you. For me, I would never hurt a baby, but the idea of, like, punching a baby, you know, whenever I was throwing a baby. What is she doing?
>> Farz: Dude, I was researching this. I was like, your computer is for sure being tracked. Like, for sure being traveling. I was looking up, like, dead babies, question mark. Like, the worst s***. So what was wild about this was that as I researched this and you just link out from one. One case, the next case, the next case. There's so many that came up. Like, it was such a common thing. And here's, like, three that came up immediately. Another one was Beverly Allitt. The reason this one came up was that. That it was presumed that Lucy looked at. Understood Beverly Allitt's case because her murder methods were the same. She would inject air and then inject insulin. And so this was also a British nurse, but she was convicted of killing four infants. Like, only. Only, like, you know, compared to what Lucy did, where, like, now they're thinking that it could be as high as 23 that she killed or tried to kill. Like, it's. But in with Lucy's case, it happened in, like, a year and a half.
>> Taylor: That was so fast.
>> Farz: So like. Like, Jeffrey Dahmer took, like, 10 years to build up a 12 body count. Like, this was, like, every other day hours. One was 13 minutes from one to the next was crazy.
>> Taylor: That is crazy. I feel like killing adults doesn't happen that fast.
>> Farz: No. No. And then there was another person in Japan, so this was Mia Miyaki Ishikawa. She was a midwife who was convicted of killing five babies, indicted of killing 27. And police think she probably killed as much as high as 84 babies.
An American nurse was convicted of killing two babies in the hospital
>> Taylor: Oh, my God.
>> Farz: And then, you know, luckily, so much.
>> Taylor: Work to have a baby for that baby to f****** get killed in the hospital.
>> Farz: Crazy. Unbelievable crazy.
>> Taylor: Especially those triplets. Is that One triplet still alive.
>> Farz: One triplet still alive. Yeah. Yeah. Because the parents were like, give me the thing. I don't care. Like, put it in, like, a bread basket. I'll just, like, race home with it. Like, it's better than being together 100%. Think about that. You. Like, it's like a house of horrors where you're like, my baby's fine. And then its diaphragm has been shattered, and it's not breathing anymore. And then 13 minutes later, it's like, that baby's fine and his f****** liver has been lacerated and it's not breathing. It's like. What do you. It's like a house of horses. Crazy.
>> Taylor: I can't believe. It's awful. Oh, my God.
>> Farz: And the last one I looked up, these should all be cases on their own. Was Janine Jones. She was an American nurse who was convicted of killing two babies. But it is thought that she could have killed as many as 60, because, again, these people don't get caught because the way they kill them is, like, so, like, nefarious. It's like an air bubble. It's. You know, it's not like. Except for Lucy's last two. It's not like you just bashed him in the head with a crowbar. Like, there's. There's nothing there to witness.
>> Taylor: Yeah. But it's just like. It seems like if there's a pattern, there's a pattern, you know?
>> Farz: Yeah. Yeah.
>> Taylor: So that's so terrible.
>> Farz: Yeah. I realized, like, recently, I was like, if I have a kid, I'm just gonna, like, stick with it the entire time it's in the hospital.
>> Taylor: They do that now.
>> Farz: Parents do that.
>> Taylor: Yeah. For the most part. Like, your baby very rarely leaves you. It leaves you. I mean, when it leaves you, it goes with a nurse, but it leaves you to, like, get his hearing tested when you first have it. And, like, that's it. And then it has, like. I mean, for, like, kidnapping reasons. There's like a. It has, like, a angle monitor on. You know, like, Juan took Florence out of the room. I was in two seconds before we all left, and somebody stopped him. And they were like, what are you doing with that baby? And he was like, it's not. Maybe we all have. You'll have your matching things, and they scan you. They're like, oh, this is. These people are allowed to be around this baby. And that's for, like. Like I said, the kidnapping. But, like, you do give the baby to the nurse every once in a while, and you trust them.
>> Farz: Hey, what do they do with the hearing test? How do they check the hearing?
>> Taylor: I have no idea.
>> Farz: Why can't you do that in the room?
>> Taylor: There's like a machine that's like one of the first things that they do, they have to take because they have to take them out. So to take them out and do like a hearing test. And that's really the only one that they take the baby away for. So that I assume is like a big machine to make sure that the baby can hear. I don't know how they test it. Asking some questions. I don't know.
>> Farz: Weird. Okay. Yeah. Well, it was an awful story. It was awful as I was reading it because I was just like thinking about how it's like every day it's like, you wake up in the morning, like, I'm gonna kill a baby this morning. It's like, how do you like, it's crazy to like, think about what this woman's like.
>> Taylor: I mean, this is gonna be other. Like, what did she say? Like, is there anything else that she, like, says about it?
>> Farz: No, no, she's not. She's. Yeah, she denied doing any of it. And she said that this is all abnormalities. The hospital and people are trying to falsify her records and whatever, but, like, they found it was so obviously there was like no doubt that she did it because, like, when they went and investigate her house and search her house, under her bed were like trash bags of this confidential information that's like hospital information about these babies. Although the ones that she like, killed or tried to kill.
Serial killer brought home confidential hospital information about each baby she killed
And so it's like, come on, man. Like, there's no denying, like, and that's the trophy thing of the serial killer is like, that's the way that she was trying to collect the trophy of every single time she killed one of these kids was bring home some confidential hospital based information about that child. So not good. Not good.
>> Taylor: I'm looking at a video of her trial. It's. It's delightful that in the UK the judge still wears a wig.
>> Farz: Oh, my God, I love that. The curls, right, Jack? Curls in.
>> Taylor: Mm. What? Okay. Some of her friends are like, she didn't do it. And then she leaves post it notes that said, I did this, I'm evil.
>> Farz: Yeah, exactly.
>> Taylor: Is what has the word hate really big circles. Oh, God.
>> Farz: The initials of the baby would be on our calendar. So on the days of the baby's died, she would have the initial of the baby on the calendar.
>> Taylor: Oh, my God.
>> Farz: Obviously it's speculative because it could have been any two Letters, you know, I mean, like. But it's just, like, it's too much evidence. It's just too much evidence.
>> Taylor: They should have done something, like, so much sooner.
>> Farz: Yeah. Yeah.
>> Taylor: That's terrible.
>> Farz: And the doctors wanted to. The doctors were the ones who were like, this is crazy. This is weird. We got to do something so wild. It's just like this. It was like eight years ago.
>> Taylor: I don't understand how you can't do it immediately. Like, I have to fill out paperwork when babies are dying.
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: Like, that doesn't make any sense. It's, like, totally unfair that, like, you can't just be, like, who? And if she didn't do it, then who cares? She had three days off.
>> Farz: Yeah.
>> Taylor: You know, we put her on administrative leave for three days. Everybody who's around these dead babies, let's put them on leave. Let's see if babies continue to die. Or, like, put a f****** cop cam on her, you know?
>> Farz: Yeah, well, that was the thing, I think, like, so when they decided they're going to move her to the day shift, you know, I mean, that was kind of the oh, s*** moment, which is like, we can't deny this anymore because now you have three kids who went critical, two who died within, like, a day of each other. Like, it's obviously something's wrong. That was a part of the story that, like, changed it to, like a. A horror movie for me was like, yeah, when you look around in the daylight, you're like, oh, my God, like, there's a serial killer working year.
>> Taylor: I'm having a really hard time getting images for your stories because mine I'm making, like, fun, dumb AI images of, like, volcanoes and yours. I'm just, like, not even doing it. I can't. It's just like.
>> Farz: Mid journey serial killer nurse.
>> Taylor: Okay, I'll do that. I did a. For the re release, Lori Valo and I just did a bunch of, like, zombies in church because I think that's funny, but it's not really much else you can do.
>> Farz: Yeah, My content's not exactly fun. Yeah. It leaves at least something to be desired. And that something is.
>> Taylor: Oh, I can't do it. I can't do killer. I can't do killer nurse. It says my prompt might be against their community standards. Imagine an evil nurse.
>> Farz: Yeah, there you go.
>> Taylor: Nope, we can't do that either. Imagine Nurse Ratchet. All right, that one's going. Yeah, Yuck.
>> Farz: Yuck. Awful story. It's awful that it happened a lot. It's awful that it continues to seemingly happen. And if you're a parent. Yeah. Never let your kids out of your sight, ever.
>> Taylor: Not once.
>> Farz: Taylor, thank you for your time. I do need to get ready.
>> Taylor: I know.
Do a Q and A. I thought that might be fun around the holidays
Wait, I have one listener mail. Did you see Chiara's email?
>> Farz: No, I didn't.
>> Taylor: She asked us. I don't know if you guys forwarding works, but Chiara asked if we have any personal stories of being around, like, crazy things that happened and also wants to know a little bit more about us. I thought that might be fun to do around the holidays where we can, like, spend a week where we don't have to frantically read a book.
>> Farz: Yeah, let's do it. Let's set that aside for maybe the Thanksgiving holiday or something.
>> Taylor: Yeah, that'd be fun.
>> Farz: Ooh, listener mail. Do a Q and A. Didn't last. Last podcast I just did a Q and A.
>> Taylor: They did. I don't mean we're going to get that many Q&As, but thank you, Carol. We will get to that. That was a good idea. That sounds like a fun thing to do. And as far as his birthday, so far as go have brunch and. Oh, I looked up espresso martini. Excuse me, I'm sorry. It actually says it's not a traditional martini because it doesn't have gin or vermouth, but it does have vodka, espresso, and coffee. Wait, Espresso, coffee liqueur and vodka.
>> Farz: Sweet. That works.
>> Taylor: Kahlua, espresso and vodka.
>> Farz: Sounds lovely.
>> Taylor: Have a great time.
>> Farz: Thank you.
>> Taylor: Happy birthday.
>> Farz: Thanks, Homie.
>> Taylor: Oh, wait. Everyone follow us on social doom.
>> Farz: Detail pod all the things. Thanks, all.
>> Taylor: Thanks.
>> Farz: Bye.